Juggling and Celebrity
When I first started going to juggling festivals in the late nineties one of the many things that made me fall in love with the juggling community was its friendliness & how open it is. Everyone was just nice. You could walk up to anyone & they would be only too happy to stop & chat or answer your questions. Even the people who I perceived as superstars who performed in the public shows that I met were so down to earth & were all willing to acknowledge me as a mere mortal.
I think community is one of those words that need to be experienced before you can understand what it means. You can read the definition in a dictionary but that is no substitute for setting up camp & living amongst jugglers for a few days.
Over the last few years I think there has been a shift. The cult of celebrity has taken hold in the outside world with the rise of gossip magazines, reality TV shows & X Factor clones (thankfully the fame of these manufactured slebs hardly seems to last more than two weeks beyond the final episode of their series nowadays). I suppose it is inevitable that some of this celebrity culture would bleed into our own.
We used to be on first name terms with our slebs (Haggis, Charlie, Luke, Jay) but now more people seem to refer to jugglers by the more formal Gatto, Garfield, Walker, Galchenko. From within the juggling community one of the drivers of this change is of course the WJF. This organisation promotes juggling as a sport so it makes sense to refer to their competitors the same way we refer to our sports stars. The WJF competition format is all about creating a spectacle out of technical juggling. For the competitions to be exciting for an audience you need a degree of prestige, which means building up the competitors to be more than mortal, otherwise it just becomes a competition to see who sucks the least.
I too am guilty of exploiting celebrity status. Back in 2002 TWJC put on a one dayer. During the organisation phase I spent a lot of time thinking about how I wanted the festival to feel. I wanted to recapture the awe I first felt at the BJC in Nottingham in 1997 where I was so close & had access to some really phenomenal jugglers. I remember repeating the mantra, "heroes walk among us" to myself. From this I came up with the idea to have a 'street' act every hour in the main hall in place of a gala show. Instead of putting our slebs up on a pedestal/stage I wanted them to be really close to & on the same level as the audience. We went out of our way to try to secure a fantastic lineup of megastars. And it served us very well indeed.
Promoting celebrity status is useful for event organisers because big names draw big crowds, but it can also cause problems. As an editor at the IJDb I spent a number of weeks locked in a battle against a particular individual who kept posting really hateful & abusive personal comments about Jason Garfield almost as fast as I could delete them (almost!). Yes Jason is a controversial character, but for that he deserves praise for making our community more vibrant, not personal abuse.
There is also the example of the WJF falling out with Thomas Dietz. If what I have read about the backstory is true, Thomas started making ever increasing financial demands on the organisation eventually causing a rift that I think damaged both parties.
Do we need celebrities in the juggling world? Certainly many festivals like Bungay trade very successfully on their friendly reputations. Talking to veterans of the convention scene a phrase that often comes up is, "public show fatigue", but I've never heard the term "festival fatigue".
But inspiration is the lifeblood of the community. If I'd never seen Jay Gilligan & Ben Jennings at the time I did I wonder whether I would have stuck at this hobby. I know I certainly wouldn't be half the juggler I am had I not.
Re: Juggling and Celebrity
I'm not convinced that much has changed in terms of the accessibility of "name" jugglers over the years other than their own schedules and abilities or desires to hang around at juggling conventions. I don't really buy into celebrity hype in the juggling world (and the Dietz-WJF stuff didn't even register as a blip on my radar). I haven't voted in the top 40 poll in years and don't follow the results.
Professional jugglers, the ones who tend to be those who get the attention, make their living through their skill. Sometimes they can afford to take some time out and attend a convention, but often they are working other gigs to pay their bills so only get to turn up for their booked slot then have to leave again for the next gig. Perhaps it is the trend towards greater professionalism and a more corporate eye that is preventing people from being on first name terms. Some of them (since they're all individuals) won't be interested in attending a convention at all.
That said, there are also those who do hang out and are on first name terms (the Gandinis - to include all various members, Luke Burrage, Luke Wilson, JJ, Donald Grant, Norbi, Wes Peden). I can't think of a juggler that I have been interested in chatting to that hasn't been approachable (and I'm not a great chatter to people I don't know).
There will always be fanboys in any area (and I use that term for the more obsessive fans who elevate thier idols to the level where they can do no wrong), even if there isn't anyone specifically promoting themselves. People can be inspired just as much by people practising in the gym (regular hobbyists) as well as by the pros. In fact you've probably insipred someone even if you didn't know it with a combination, a style, an attitude.
Remember also that not everyone has the funds or ability to attend as many conventions as some of us here do. Those people might have limited access and so have to make tough decisions about which conventions to attend (particularly in the US with its large distances and relatively expensive conventions compared to the UK). Those decisions may be informed by who the other attendees are going to be and who is going to be in the show. I admit that if the gandinis are performing within a reasonable distance I will go and see them. I like their stuff.
In conclusions on the subject if celebs in the juggling community: meh.
lukeburrage - - Parent #
Re: Juggling and Celebrity
I have a lot of experience with juggling, and some with celebrity, and some with the two topics combined. I'll break it down into four points/stories.
American vs European juggling celebrity.
http://www.lukeburrage.com/travelpodcast/20120103/20120103-53.jpg
Back in the day, when I was well known for being a good juggler, performing at conventions and having a popular website, many jugglers I met knew who I was before I knew who they were. Up until 2004 it didn't have much impact on my interaction with other jugglers. I performed a lot in the UK and Europe, and everyone was totally cool. All the other famous jugglers I met had the same experience, as far as I could tell, because while they were well known, they weren't treated differently than anyone else.
In 2004 I visited the IJA summer festival in upstate New York. It was my first trip to the USA, and I was stuck by the many, many differences in culture, both in society in general and within the juggling scene. Just how different the IJA festival was from European conventions would fill an entire essay in itself, so I'll stick to the topic at hand.
On the first day I performed in the opening dinner banquet show. The vast majority of the festival attendees were in the audience, so I guess I was immediately well known to everyone, even if they hadn't known who I was before.
Then someone asked me for an autograph. I found this pretty strange. I can't recall every being asked for one before. I know I'd been asked to sign things after a convention gala show before, but this would normally be one object that all the artists in the show would sign, like a book or a t-shirt. But here was a young juggler, maybe 16 years old, asking me to sign a juggling club.
I wasn't sure how to respond, so I just said something like "Nah, don't be silly."
The next person who wanted an autograph had a ring they wanted signing. I wasn't so surprised this time, but still felt super-uncomfortable standing in the middle of a hall, signing autographs. I made a joke about it, and signed the very thin edge of the ring, so my autograph was nothing more than a black line. I tried to make a joke of it, but really I didn't want other jugglers to see my signature on something, and think "Who does Luke think he is?"
Once three or four other young male jugglers asked me for my autograph, other famous jugglers at the convention had already signed the props, so my name would just be one of many. Then I gave in, and just scribbled my name. I would always try to strike up a conversation with these jugglers, but invariably all they wanted was the signature, and then they'd head off to find another juggler to sign the club/ring/whatever.
One evening there was a circle of jugglers chatting, and this came up. I remember asking Jason Garfield about it, and he explained that it was normal for people to ask for autographs, and that he also felt weird about it. But he explained that the thing to do was just to sign your name, as to not do so would be a dick move. He had a lot more experience with American juggling celebrity status than I, and also way more experience making dick moves, so I took his advice.
I guess it all worked out at that festival, as I had fun hosting the final night of Renegade, I took part in some competitions, and handily won the People's Choice Award.
To this day, I probably signed more autographs in my four trips to American conventions than in the (at a rough guess) 150 conventions I've attended in Europe. I think the difference between perceived celebrity is balancing out more now though, possibly due to the internet eroding the differences in culture, and allowing more access to jugglers directly, rather than via magazines, shows, and conventions.
A Non-Famous Juggler
In 2003 I attended a convention, and was asked to be in the show. I accepted, because that's what I do. The host of the show was not a well known juggler, but was a professional. He was a super nice guy, and very good at his job. And he performed on cruise ships.
And boy, did he let everyone know about it. Maybe he hadn't been doing it long, but he certainly saw himself as better than everyone else, because he constantly talked about it. "Yeah, on cruise ships were do lighting like this" and "When I'm working on cruise ships, I do this and this..."
As it happens, he probably was better than everyone else in the show, and the fact that he was a successful professional, and still is, only confirms that. But it really rubbed me up the wrong way. First, it made me not want to ever work on cruise ships, thinking that it might turn me into a dickhead. Second, I remember vowing to myself that no matter what I did as a juggler, I'd always remember what it was like to be an amateur juggler, and that someone regaling me with stories about previous bigger shows doesn't impress at all. Doing a good job is the main thing that counts.
Since then I've shared the things I've learned as professional juggler, and helped as many jugglers as possible follow in my footsteps to being professional jugglers themselves, but I've tried to be sensitive in how I present myself. Each time I explain a point in a workshop, I make the reasons clear, and not just say "I'm a professional, and have worked in this or that venue, and this is just the way it's done."
A Famous Non-Juggler
Last year I worked on a British cruise ship, and they had booked a big star as special guest entertainer. He was TV celebrity, probably hosted game shows or something. Everyone on the ship was abuzz about him doing a show, and some of the cruise staff made up trivial excuses with the only aim of spending a bit of time chatting to him.
Funnily enough, I told this story a few months ago, and couldn't remember the name of this star, which is relevant, but I'll not name him now even though I do remember his name. There's no need to be a dick about it.
Anyway, I grew up the UK at the time when this TV celebrity was at the height of his fame. However, my family never had a TV in the house, so 99% of popular TV culture passed me by. I knew this TV celebrity's name, but literally nothing else about him. I didn't know what he was going to do in his show, nor was I particularly interested in finding out.
In the end I was working on other things, and didn't see his show. But I did go to the theater to practice once his show was over. I met him back stage in the dressing room, and he said he'd enjoyed my show. I said "Good to meet you, I'm Luke." And then I asked him his name, because I'd forgotten it.
He said "Oh, I'm John Smith" and all I could think was "No wait, I'm sure it was something else..." And then I noticed from the expression on his face that he'd not been in a room in decades without everybody else in the room knowing his name. He thought that I was the one who was trying to make a joke at his expense, pretending I didn't know who he was. Instead I was just trying to be polite.
As it turns out, I've never been on the other side of this situation. The reason is that I've never presumed that anybody knows who I am. Why should I?
When I meet a juggler for the first time, I always introduce myself by name, and most of the time the juggler will say "Yes, I know who you are!" This is a good bet, considering that I'm often on stages at the largest juggling conventions, introducing myself and others in a show. But even at the largest juggling conventions, maybe only half the people have been to another convention before, and only half of them go to see the opening show or an open stage where I'm hosting. To many people, I'm just another guy they've met in the main hall.
But assuming ignorance of my limited fame among other jugglers has served me well in the area of not-coming-off-as-a-dick. A fellow special guest at the French Juggling Convention last year met me for the first time while I was balancing a ball on the top of my head. I knew her from her youtube videos, and was a big fan. We started the conversation, and she started mentioning contact jugglers she thought I'd know. It turns out she presumed I was a contact juggler, due to me having a ball on my head. She had no clue what I really did, or who I was, and it turned out it didn't matter either way.
Meeting Mr. Famous TV Personality made me thankful that I've always taken this course of action, because that was my first and only personal contact with him, and he came across as a bit of a dick. Sometimes I enjoy being a bit of a dick, but not as the starting point of a new relationship.
Point number four.
I started writing this post, went for dinner, and now I can't remember the last point or story. Oh well. Maybe I'll just add that one cool benefit of being a more famous juggler is that it makes you more appealing to the members of the opposite sex, a fact that I have taken advantage of numerous times over the years.
In conclusion...
I don't really have a conclusion. I don't even have anything to say about the Top 40 Jugglers of the Year charts, because I don't take them that seriously. I have fun running the polls and presenting the results, and that's all. If someone else thinks they are important in any way, that's up to them.
JJ Conductor - - Parent #
Re: Juggling and Celebrity
I've read this post a half-dozen times over the past few months. I think it one of the most interesting ongoing topics in the juggling world. I mostly agree with Orinoco's post. There are a few details I disagree with (for example I don't think it has changed much since the 90's).
I thought of this topic again because we are nearing the time of year when the big week-long festivals happen. I remember how disillusioned I was when I found out that some jugglers are paid (to varying degrees) to go to festivals. I was always under the impression that all the performers were volunteers, and no different from the rest of us. As an organizer, I found out that is far from true. There are actually jugglers who are "working the circuit". The cost is minimal, and most/many organizers will gladly pay it, but it still saddens me when I hear of performers who demand a "honorarium" and/or special compensations.
I think Orinoco is right. There is a "cult of celebrity" that is huge in the world, including the juggling community. People like stars. To paraphrase Voltaire, "if there were no celebrities, it would be necessary to invent them." It may be human nature to want to have heroes.
Orinoco nailed it when he said, "Promoting celebrity status is useful for event organisers because big names draw big crowds, ...." When we talk about an event, either before or afterwards, what we normally talk about is who was there (in the show). It is the common element that everyone at an event shares. So when we rate/rank an event, we often do so largely on how good (star-studded) the public show was.
Nevertheless I don't think this is a very large factor in how well we actually like the event. From experience, I also don't think celebrities draw many extra jugglers to attend an event. For me, at least, a juggling event is primarily about ... well ... juggling. The main "celebrity" attraction for events is all of the "ordinary" jugglers that are our friends. It is that time in the gym that is such a rush. Juggling is about doing, not watching. Yet even I, when asked about a festival, will start talking about the big names who were in the show.
In Conclusion, I think celebrities are part of human nature. We need to realize that and try to work with it. I think juggling celebrities are SO MUCH cooler when they are treated (and act) no different than anyone else. When we put them on a pedestal, I feel in the long run we devalue/undermine both them and the event. I think this is an issue that organizers will have to consider, and guard against. I think it import to try to make/keep juggling events focused on juggling and jugglers, not on celebrities.
last thought: Is Orinoco a juggling celebrity? (Because of posts like this, he makes my list.)
Little Paul - - Parent #
Re: Juggling and Celebrity
You say "From experience, I also don't think celebrities draw many extra jugglers to attend an event." but I can think of one notable example.
BJC2K in York was the BJC which booked Anthony Gatto - attendance was *huge* compared to the years immediately before and after that BJC. I don't think there's much doubt that AG was part of that draw (although the enormous amount of publicity that the York guys did in advance to make sure every juggler in the UK knew AG was coming obviously had an effect!)
It would have to be someone really special to make me go just to see them these days, but is that me being a jaded old fart? Do younger jugglers feel differently? Or are celebrities less important to see in person now that they're all over the internet?
I don't know.
I suspect the "big names" I would be excited about seeing at an event don't have much of a crossover into mainstream juggling community. I'm more excited by the idea of jugglers attending who have something interesting I can talk to them about than I am someone who can bust out burly siteswaps or whatever.
You raise an interesting point about paid attendees though.
I don't have a problem with paying performers to be in the gala show, or to run a series of special masterclass workshops or something (much like I wouldn't have a problem paying a mechanic to work on my car) - but *only* if they're invited and booked by the person putting the show together.
I'm not a huge fan of people who approach festivals and say "I'd like to be in your show, or run some workshops - I'll want paying though" which is more than a little cheeky in my book! I wouldn't pay a mechanic who approached me uninvited and offered to work on my car, why would I pay someone who is begging to perform at my event?[1]
At the lower end of the blagging scale I've encountered people who turn up on the day saying "I've driven a minibus full of kids from my local workshop - can I have my usual group discount" to which the response was always along the lines of "we don't usually give you a discount, so you can pay full price like you did last year"
All in all, I'm happy for people to be paid for their services if we've approached them to provide those services. I'm not so happy for people to try and take the piss.
Has that drifted off topic a bit?
[1] I have met some mechanics who I would make an exception for though... pwhoar ;-)
Re: Juggling and Celebrity
Anthony Gatto was definitely a big draw, but in addition to the slick York marketing machine that you already noted York also benefited from being nicely situated in the middle of the country. The EJC in 2006 held in Ireland on the outskirts of Europe had 2 superstars of a similar stature in Kris Kremo & Sergei Ignatov, yet attendance did not compare with the EJCs in France & Germany around that time which were in central Europe. I was once told that, "An American thinks 100 years is a long time, a European thinks 100 miles is a long way" which I think holds very true.
My opinion on payment of performers is made up of conflicting thoughts.
I want the performers to receive the payment they deserve & not have to perform for free or even a reduced fee. I'm sure every performer has had to deal with enquiries that can't pay any money but can offer "exposure" (Thank you for your valued enquiry, as soon as my landlord starts accepting exposure as a method of payment I will gladly perform at your event). I don't want performers to think of the juggling festival circuit in the same way as the "exposure" offers (although ironically I imagine the exposure of performing at a major festival is actually pretty useful).
There are few jugglers that make their living from a boundary pushing level of juggling. A lot of jugglers I know have to hold secondary (& more) jobs to make ends meet. When I was performing a lot of the veteran performers advised me, "Don't do it, get a proper job!" Which is what I did. I think a lot of young jugglers do the same, how many potential superstars[1] have we lost because they struggle to scratch a living?
At the same time (where's my electric monk?) I also believe the opposite in that I also think that people should give back to the community they come from (if indeed they do come from the community).
It's also difficult because I know that the cost of putting on a gala show accounts for a huge chunk of the ticket price even with performers making concessions. I have no concrete figures (does anyone?) but I've heard estimates of ~40% for a BJC. Would I rather pay 40% less for a BJC without a public show? Yes, I would. For the price of a couple of performers for the show you could get a good band for an evening which I think represents more value for money. Of course I understand that the Gala show is more likely to be appreciated by all the attendees while not everyone enjoys bopping to a band.
I'm interested to see how WJF8 does. It is a free festival but you have to pay for entry to the ESPN event & The Jason Garfield Show. I wonder if this a la carte pay for what you use model will be a good option for future festivals.
Still on the subject of celebrity, I find it amusing that some of my friends struggle to tell Peter Bone & Ben Beever apart. The juggling is perhaps more famous than the juggler. I find this interesting because it shows a strong correlation between celebrity status & ability in the juggling world which is most certainly not the case in the real world.
A popular theory among historians is that the legend of Robin Hood is an amalgamation of stories about several people. When I'm old & crotchety(er) I intend to create the legend of Barron[2] Peter Beever among the young & impressionable.
[1] I don't think I would have made the level of superstar, but who would not be a better juggler if they didn't have to do a 9-5?
[2] See what I did there?
Little Paul - - Parent #
Re: Juggling and Celebrity
glad you went with "Peter Beever" rather than "Ben Bone" ... people might get the wrong idea.
Well, that was a waste of a Big Talk post wasn't it.
Re: Juggling and Celebrity
It's also difficult because I know that the cost of putting on a gala show accounts for a huge chunk of the ticket price even with performers making concessions. I have no concrete figures (does anyone?) but I've heard estimates of ~40% for a BJC
See the Wiki for the details, but the average cost is apparently between 15% and 25%.
To my knowledge a lot of BJCs pay the going rate for public show performers, although often only after the event, once it's clear that the convention can afford it. A very expensive public show doesn't necessarily imply that the convention committed up front to paying that much or budgeted that much. Certainly the figures quoted for the 2008 show include a substantial amount of discretionary payments.
I don't know of any recent BJC that has paid non-performers to attend; occasionally there are free tickets for people who are key to the proceedings for some other reason, but in general BJCs are on such a tight budget that even the organisers pay for their tickets, so there isn't much sympathy for other people trying to blag tickets.
There's often a spate of ticket refunds that go on after the end of an event, but I don't ever recall this being for celebrities; it's exclusively been for volunteers who have pretty much missed the event through putting in so many volunteer hours.
Re: Juggling and Celebrity
I expect that people find it difficult to tell Ben and Peter apart because, in an average video from either of them, they are both quite far away from the camera. A wide shot is necessary to get the full 17 ball flash pattern in there, thus anonymising the face.
JJ Conductor - - Parent #
Re: Juggling and Celebrity
I agree with LP. I have no problem with someone being paid to attend a juggling event *IF* they are asked by the organizers. I think any compensation should be given in thanks, not required as payment. But I don't think it is that way anymore, and hasn't been for years. Some of the "celebrity" jugglers on stage at your next festival probably solicited the job or, at the least, did it with the expectation of being given special compensations and perks. Perhaps, like the mechanic, they earn their pay but that is, I think, beside the point.
I actually had a friend who was a mechanic, he would help me fix my car and never expected me to pay him. Likewise I would help him with his computer, I never expected to get paid for my work either. I've been told the universally accepted pay rate for helping friends/family move is a pizza and a cold beverage. If a friend wants, expects, or even accepts money for such things, then they may not really be a friend.
I once asked a very successful professional juggler how much he wanted to be paid to perform at a juggling festival. I liked his answer. He said, he didn't care if he was paid at all, as long as we are not paying any other like performer more than him. The money wasn't important to him, he just didn't want to be used or taken advantage of. He wanted the same respect that was given to others.
I think that is the important thing. Juggling events/festivals/conventions are gatherings of our juggling friends and family. Festivals are not business deals, they are a party. We need to treat everyone with respect. A person who feels they should be paid to attend the party, ... is not someone I want to be there. To say that one person is worth more than another is bound to cause hard feelings, strife and undermine the feeling of community.
That brings me to another "Big Talk" topic; volunteers. If we know the "celebrity" juggler(s) is getting (sometimes) over a thousand dollars to be on stage for a few minutes, why should anyone offer to work for several hours manning a gate for nothing. The gate keeper is likely to get grief from people at the gate, whereas the guy on stage will get applause. If we are going to pay anyone, perhaps it should be the guy at the gate.
In my opinion, the "cult of celebrity" starts, or at least gets a huge push, when we start paying (via perks or honorariums) the "celebrity". We are clearly telling him (and everyone) that he is worth more than everyone else at the event. Once we do that (even if from business viewpoint he might be "worth" more) then we have destroyed the notion that we are all part of one big happy juggling family (a group of friends/equals).