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Cedric Lackpot -

What on Earth is going on at Juggling Rock?

I'm not really old enough to understand all the Facebook old fogies, but there seems to have been a heckin' big ruckus over at Juggling Rock earlier today. Can anyone provide a brief rundown, preferably of the unbiased variety?

From what I've read I understand summary bans have been issued, people have got terribly upset about it all, and it all seems a bit of a mess. But it's FB so I really can't be arsed to trawl through everything - and evidently some of it has been deleted anyway - but can anyone give me an overview? Is it a genuine dispute or just internet parody flouncing? Does anyone give the slightest shit?

Most importantly, is there any substance to the implied accusation that someone at JR has a problem with talking about LBGT+ issues? Common or garden internet slapfests are ten a penny and I can happily ignore them; fundamental issues of bigotry I can not. Hence the request for further information, help me out please Edge.

Maria - - Parent

Well, someone tried to write a summary in the comments on some of the posts, might not be completely unbiased but something like this:

"Basically it boils down to: Original Post about an insta channel featuring lgbtq+jugglers is met with support and a very vocal minority expressing their discomfort with what they see as "Not Juggling related" and "divisive" in harsh comments. Post is then deleted by admins. Someone posts another message asking for an explanation: this sparks a big discussion on inclusiveness, with, again, a very vocal minority who feels incredibly uncomfortable with the subject and troll around, baiting people. Gets a bit more heated. Pavel comes out, bans the pro-lgbtq side of the argument, and no one else, explaining that he only deleted the original post because "someone reported it and he has no time actually reading the posts". Due to very tame backlash, he starts banning around people questioning his methods and his motives, deletes his explanation, and the 230+ thread that sparked a genuine interesting global conversation on inclusiveness. He then proceeds to continue banning people who question his decisions (these people happen for the most part to be lgbtq+, go figure), while refusing every form of dialogue."

Tom Derrick - - Parent

Hasn't that place been a dumpster fire of sensible moderation from the get go? I seem to remember that's why the much more pleasant Juggling Home group got set up. I've not been a part of JR for quite some time now, seems like I've missed very little.

Ethan - - Parent

Hey so yeah. I'm the one who made the original post regarding an idea I had for an Instagram project for the LGBTQ+ juggling community. I linked to the Instagram I had created, and basically asked people's opinions on whether it was a good idea or not. It received an overwhelming amount of support. The rest of the story was summed up perfectly by Maria.

People were banned and got, rightfully, very upset. I was one of those who was banned. Myself and a few others started doing organized targeted protests. And yeah. Basically quite a lot of people left juggling rock. Fun times.

Little Paul - - Parent

Do you have a link to the insta account?

Ethan - - Parent

Yep! You can find it on Instagram @CirquePride and also now on Facebook @cirquepride.

Little Paul - - Parent

Thanks, not normally the sort of content I follow on IG, but I’ll keep an eye on it anyway :)

I was disappointed that the advertised lineup for the “circus” stage at Bristol Pride last weekend was entirely aerial acts (and we all know how I feel about yet-another-tortured-love-story-being-tangled-up-in-mums-old-curtains) Much like the cabaret stage was all drag acts.

Huge amounts of “could do better” there from a variety point of view, and hopefully things like your project will broaden the pool of acts events like that can pull from

Maria - - Parent

The Jugglingrock group description has been updated with new rules now:

""Made for in touch with jugglers around the world".

''International Juggling group''

Show us, what you can do!
Be aware of the latest juggling news!
Share your news...
Stay positive :)
learn how to juggle, following the advice of other jugglers!
To join the group, you need to answer simple questions.

If anyone of you has been blocked
it has own reasons:
posts not related to juggling!

Any kind of propaganda and popularization on topics:
--Fascism, nazism, nationalism etc. !
--Sexual communities or your sexual preferences
--Politic things!
--Drugs, alcohol, smoking!
--War and terrorism!
--any kind of violence!
-disrespectful communication or insults
-advertising with links to another websites
-spam, desinformation
-Invitations and advertisements of other groups, communities.
-Commercial Post(without notice to the administration)

Please think what you post!
Еhere are children in our community!
We are glad to see everyone, who loves juggling!
Here we do juggling!

Pavel Evsukevich"

Well, taken out of context, not wanting "sexual communities" mentioned on a juggling page seems to make sense. (I wouldn't like to see porn there...) However, we all know that this wasn't what this was about. Not discussing "your sexual preferences", well... I don't want details about what people like to do in bed, either, but again, that is not what was happening. I can also understand that they want the juggling group to be about juggling, I would have been fine with them deleting posts that truly didn't have anything to do with juggling, including if people said something like "I am gay and proud". I wouldn't have seen that as homophobic. But your post was about juggling. I don't see why anyone would report it, and if taking it down was a mistake they should have handled it better.

They are really deleting a lot right now, because people are still posting protests. I have only commented so far, am not banned yet. I kind of wonder where the line goes for discussing "sexual preferences". Would I be allowed to post a juggling video saying "Look, me and my boyfriend made a video!" That is telling people that I am hetero, right? Would it be different from saying "Look, me and my girlfriend made a video!"? I hope that both would be OK, but I can't be sure.

The Void - - Parent

Off-topic: Orin, I've "marked this thread as read" 5 times now, and the 2 most recent messages are still showing as unread, both in the thread view and on the index. Let's see what happens after I post this...

On-topic: #DeleteFacebook

Orinoco - - Parent

Off: oh. I thought everything was going a bit too smoothly yesterday... should be working again now.

Also might have to turn off autolinking @ to Twitter seeing as all websites seem to use it now...

On: I can't remember whether I left or was banned from Juggling Rock. I think I just left. Good for those who have protested & made their views known but sadly there are 13k+ members of the group the majority of which will do nothing & therefore completely vindicating the mods in their eyes :(

The Void - - Parent

Marking now done, thanks.

david - - Parent

The lower “Mark all as read” link doesn’t and also returns a blank screen in my iPad. The upper link works.

Cedric Lackpot - - Parent

Same here, I just hit "Mark all unread posts on this page (11) as read" and got a 500.

Stephen Meschke -

Pantograph Juggler

Youtube video of the pantograph juggler. - - - - Image.

Inspiration comes from Nathan Peterson's juggling machine, and this woodworking machine.

My machine uses a different mechanism than Peterson's machine. I used a pantograph mechanism. The pantograph mechanism was created to duplicate and scale drawings. Any movement at the center of the pantograph is duplicated at the end of the pantograph. The movement is also scaled up by a factor of 2.

In the Pantograph Juggler, The motor is connected to the center of the pantograph mechanism by a ¾ inch cam. For every turn of the motor, the center of the pantograph mechanism makes a 1 ½ inch diameter circle. The end of the pantograph mechanism makes a circle with a 3 inch diameter.

The glass balls are held in aluminum hands at the end of the pantograph mechanism. The throw trajectory is based on hand adjustment. If the hands are tilted down, throws will go toward the sides. If the hands are tilted up, throws will go more upward.

Throw distance is determined by the motor speed and acceleration. The faster the motors go, the farther the balls get thrown. Motor speed does not affect throw direction. The uncoupling of speed and direction greatly simplifies the art of juggling. The code for this project is only 15 lines!

An Arduino UNO controls the motors. The motors are NEMA 17 type bi-polar stepper motors. The motors are driven by L298n chips. The Arduino is powered by a 9V battery and the stepper motors are powered by 8 AA batteries. The AA batteries need to be recharged after ½ hour. The 9V battery should last for more than 40 hours.



Wiring Diagram.

A jig saw and a drill are the only power tools required for this project. A table saw, sander, and drill press will make things a lot easier, faster and more precise.

The most difficult part to fabricate is the cam that connects the drive shaft of the motor to the shaft that drives the pantograph arm. Hardwood works well and is easy to work. A relief cut is made near the drive shaft. A bolt and nut tension the wood around the drive shaft.

The pantograph mechanism is constructed from ¼ inch plywood. There are lots of holes on some small pieces. It’s best to cut several extra arm pieces to practice drilling and account for mistakes. 7/8 inch holes are drilled for the bearings. A small amount of hot glue or CA glue holds the bearing in the plywood. I used a 7.5 mm diameter arrow shaft to fit in the bearings. The shaft can be glued into the plywood as well.

Lots of the parts are optional. The leveling feet that I used could easily be replaced by a stack of books. The walls aren’t necessary either, but they will keep you from losing your marbles when attempting to calibrate the throwing hands.

Some materials can be recycled or substituted to reduce cost. The thick sheet of MDF that I used as a base could be recycled from a discarded piece of furniture. The Plexiglas is visually stunning, but the most expensive single component. It could be replaced with plywood.

Materials List:

• Mechanism
◦ ½ inch diameter white glass sling shot ammo
◦ ¾ inch plywood for base (24 x 24 inches)
◦ ¼ inch plywood for pantograph mechanism (eight pieces that are 8 x 1.5 inches)
◦ ¼ inch plywood for walls to catch marbles
◦ 12 Skate bearings
◦ 7.5 mm arrow shaft
◦ Aluminum bar - ½ inch x 1/8 inch x 3 ft
◦ Small bolts for hands and cams
◦ ½ inch threaded rod for leveling feet
◦ ¾ inch drywall screws
◦ Plexiglas (two pieces that are 4 inches by 12 inches by ¼ inch thick)
◦ Small bits of hardwood (one piece that is ¾ inches x 2 inches x 1 foot is enough)
◦ Paste Wax on everything that moves
◦ Arduino Uno
◦ 2 x NEMA 17 Stepper Motor
◦ 2 x L298N stepper motor drivers
◦ 9v battery
◦ 8 x AA battery

Kelhoon - - Parent

well done

interesting mechanism

Mini -

if your not following dave kelly's instagram.

do so

3bbb with tennis rackets

Mike Moore - - Parent

Link? It is apparently not an easy account to find.

Little Paul - - Parent

He was the second profile in the list when I searched for “Dave Kelley”

Little Paul - - Parent

Not sure where that extra ‘e’ came from...

Mike Moore - - Parent

Thanks, it's not even on my first page when I search Dave Kelly.

pumpkineater23 - - Parent


The Void - - Parent

Thanks for the link.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

yay thanks :)

JonPeat -

The Leeds Juggling Convention 2019 (UK)

Hi Everyone,
We have announced the provisional date of the Leeds Juggling Cnvention 2019.

Saturday 23rd November 2019.
The date is currently provisional as we have to wait for the final exam timetable from the school, but we are 90% certain that there will not be a date change. :-)

Here is the website:

Here is Facebook:

I'm not going to spam the Edge with a lot of updates (that's what faceache is for... ;-)) but rest assured that there are lots of cool things planned this year.

I would love to see you all there in November!
Cheers Jon


The Void - - Parent

If you kept them all in the one thread, then I don't think updates would be spam. Still, your choice. #DeleteFacebook

York Jugglers - - Parent

a slightly easier url for the Leeds Juggling Convention website is

This seems a timely moment to thank the team for their redirection service.

Steve Newby -

Hi everybody!

I'm Steve. Mid Cheshire UK. Northwich Juggling Club member and long time lurker on the Juggling Edge. Been juggling for bloody ages and still rocking the same old tricks I nailed back in the day, which is why I love going to le club and passing with friends.

I'd like to get out and about to more festivals and conventions but my wife and I are running a small cloning operation at home that often takes priority. Our next non club outing will be the Manchester Juggling Convention 2019.

We do some small community works and workshop stuff where we can. Today I'm heading over to Antrobus village fete for plate spinning and balloon modelling (maybe even at the same time) in the rain (love it).

I've signed up today as a ball rolling exercise towards a potential new event in next year's calendar which I hope to share more about soon.

Big love jugglers, near and far. Have a great day whoever you are!


The Void - - Parent

What do you clone?

Steve Newby - - Parent

Mostly humans. We've got two working prototypes (one 5, the other 2 years old) both already operational, and expect the MKIII arrival in late Sept.

The Void - - Parent


7b_wizard - - Parent

^^hehe I as a non-native understood that at first read ;oD

Scott Seltzer - - Parent

You gotta get yourself to EJC in just a few weeks. See

Alex Jones -

Skateboarder with a juggler's ethos.

After Luke Burrage's recent video on "The Definiton of Juggling" I was reminded of the perennial question among some jugglers of whether or not you can consider the skateboarder Rodney Mullen as one of the greatest 'jugglers' of all time. Under Luke's definition he could be considered a great 'object manipulator' but not a 'juggler'.

Be that as it may, I came across another skateboarder recently who, though he may not be a 'juggler' per se, shares the exact same ethos of many jugglers. Anyone who feels an unstoppable urge to do tricks with any object they happen to pick up (toothbrush, bottle, hat, book, etc.etc.) will know this feeling. I think some of you on here might like his style.

His name is Abraham Dubin, and his YouTube channel is

A good video to start with to get the idea of his schtick is his recent LooPHoLES video:

In this video (and many others) he customises his skateboards in a really homespun way (sawing, hinging, combining, tying together, fixing on wierd extra bits) often just to perform one sketchy trick on one dodgy bit of broken pavement or curb that he has found. Maybe you could think of him as the Jay Gilligan or Ameron Rosvall of skateboarding - creating weird props, doing odd new tricks.

Without wanting to get too pretentious about it, I think what elevates his videos to the level of art is the appreciation for the potential of 'edgeland' landscapes and the creativity that they can inspire, despite the fact that on the face of it they look 'ugly' or 'boring'. He also has a great eye for the nature that is present in these bog-standard sub-urban landscapes.

Anyway, I hope you enjoy his videos as much as I have, and I hope they inspire you to push your juggling in weird directions and to see your local environment with new eyes.

Orinoco - - Parent

I've considered skaters as object manipulators for a long time (just rewatched the video in that thread, I still find it extraordinary). I watched the LooPHoLES video, most of it was not really my thing but I thought the stuff with the hinged board was a lot of fun.

Alex Jones - - Parent

I realised after posting that I actually meant to give this video as the best example of his style: It is a bit longer and more varied and has more interesting ideas in my opinion. And plenty more hinges :P

I appreciate that some of the stuff is a bit weird, and on a purely technical level the skating is pretty basic, but I do like the general experimental outlook. I think if he was more technically skilled he could be considered the Wes Peden of skating!

Ethan -

Hey y'all! This year's IJA festival was amazing as always. Here is a link to a trick montage video I made at the fest:

Enjoy! Make sure to follow my journey on Instagram @JudeLeQueen

The Void - - Parent

I liked the sequence starting at 1:46.

Mike Moore -

Polyrhythmic Siteswaps

I thought I remembered the Gandinis having some kind of document about polyrhythmic siteswaps. Does anyone know where that's gone, or if it ever existed?

Daniel Simu - - Parent

I can't remember a document but quite recently there was a thread at jRock in which Sean linked some videos and links:

Mike Moore - - Parent

Thanks! I'm looking for some kind of explanation of the math/notation, but maybe it's one of those "think hard and figure it out for yourself" kind of things.

Cedric Lackpot - - Parent

Joost Dessing - whatever happened to that lovely person? - was also into polyrhythmic juggling, perhaps you could find something in the rec.juggling archives?

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Last time I saw him at a juggling convention was in 2010... According to google he is a lecturer in Belfast...

Dee - - Parent

He was doing research at EJC 2014 :)

el_grimley - - Parent

Have a look at Rotating confusion and walsingham waltz in Aidan's book

Marvin -

To save you the turmoil of reading this forum here are all the links posted during June 2019:


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