The levels of siteswap and why there won't be a fourth.
Warning- heavy theory stuff. It's really hard to put into conversational words, so I'm going to structure it kind of like notes, with commentary in parenthesis.
Premise: in the same way that siteswaps are a loop of states being transformed, there should be a way to loop siteswaps via transforming them.
A successful system will:
-Describe a loop of transforms, from which you can derive the root siteswaps
The transformation:
- state is transformed one object at a time, so the system should parallel that.
-However, what is the equivalent of an object? Is it a certain state or a certain throw?
-There is a single one-throw transform and a single one-state transform
(When you add or subtract the period of a pattern from one throw, and when you switch the starting points of two throws. Examples are 441 to 741 for the first and 441 to 531 for the second)
-Because the one-throw transform can reach a very limited number of siteswaps, the one-state transform should be used.
Notes on the transform:
- When the transform is used, one object in one state of a pattern is changed into an alternate position. For example, with 441 to 531, the change is (123,124,134) to (123,125,134).
-The throw that changes is the one that resulted from a 1. In the previous example, the 4 changes because it was previously in the 1 position.
-The object's alternate position is equal to the equivalent throw in the pattern plus one. In the example, the throw changes into a 5, because 441+1= 552, and the change is in the second state. The same transform used on 612 would result in a 2, because 612+1+723.
Loops:
Using this transform, you can create loops of siteswaps, much like how you can create loops of states.
Notes on loops:
- These loops tend to be either underwhelming or very long, because of how small the change in each transform is.
-I have only found loops with an even period. (I hope that odd-period transforms exist, but I suspect that they don't)
The notation:
Transforms can be notated by what the end result to the state, and what state they are performed on. In the example of 441 to 531, the transform is a 52, because a throw in the second state is transformed into a 5.
Notes:
-You can derive the basic siteswaps using this notation, by deducing the position of their various states and throws. This can only be done when the transform creates a loop and each state has been transformed. A state won't be visible in the sequence if it hasn't been transformed; consider a siteswap where one object never moves: it might as well not be there.
-You can 'multiplex' a transform, doing two at the same time, up to as many as the period of the siteswap minus 1.
End notes:
The system works about as well as I could hope for, since you can derive the root siteswaps from a sequence. I am, however, disappointed that you need to write two numbers per transform, and that you need to transform every state. This is still very dense, after all, you could theoretically compact 125 numbers (25 5-object states) into just 12 (6 transforms to the pattern), but in a perfect world, you would only need one number per siteswap.
The reason there are these limits, I believe, is that states have a natural decay and "active position". Every object in a state is automatically transformed downwards because of gravity, and there's only one possible object you can throw at any one time (the one at position '1'). Siteswaps as a whole have no such decay, and you can place transforms any way you like, on any state. This lack of rules means that you can't pack it quite as densely with information as a siteswap, and it also means that if you wanted to add another layer, that is, notate a loop of looped siteswap transforms, you would need to use a far greater number of characters, making it extremely impractical and very unwieldy.
As it is, the system is already mostly impractical, making too small of changes to be productive and taking too much work to decipher (However, I do find it fun, as a sort of logic puzzle, to figure out what siteswaps a given sequence contains). There are also some open questions I have, for instance, is there a rule for transform-sequence validity? On top of that, I haven't named the system (I've considered Stateswap, but the words are so similar it would just get confusing).
Perhaps if there was some kind of fifth-dimensional time/gravity, even if we had to imagine it up, the system could be more useful (or at least compact), but for now it can remain as a fun curiosity.
Example of a sequence (Can you figure out the siteswaps?):
[6123][2132]5233
There's a high chance I've explained something horribly, so questions are very welcome. And if there are any other ideas related to this, I'd of course love to hear and discuss them.
Siteswap Explorer app
I said I wouldn’t do it, but I had a go at making a new app version of Siteswap Explorer. It turned into something I want to share, so here it is!
It’s like the website but it works better and doesn’t need an internet connection. The idea is that it animates siteswaps (two handed or four handed visualistions are available), and it gives you buttons to press so you can explore any of multiple ‘next’ siteswaps. You get buttons that apply to each siteswap, so you can just click things and see what happens. There are no wrong answers.
A new feature that’s not on the web version is sound: it plays a note for each throw, going a semitone higher for each throw duration. I’m not sure if that makes it a musical instrument!
For the iPhone/iPad version you can get it for free from the App Store: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/siteswap-explorer/id1549451272
Android is a bit more complicated. The app will only be publicly available when I have satisfied Google’s rules. At least 12 people have to have the test version for at least 14 days. You can get access to the test version by joining this google group: https://groups.google.com/g/siteswapexplorer
Once you join that group, you’ll automatically be able to find the test version on the Play Store. I’ll make it properly available as soon as Google allow. It would really help me if you opt in! It needs a 64 bit Android device.
The web version will continue to be available at https://siteswapexplorer.com. That has also changed quite a bit since I last mentioned it here!
Hello! I didn't know there was a Fediverse. Nice to know that I've reached it!
Meanwhile, small fixes in the app for zeroes and showers are awaiting review...
[OT: Coo. Well, if you're at all interested, here's a 3.5 min intro vid, FYI https://tlmb.net/blog/whats-the-fediverse/ , and a couple of follow-up links. Hope to see you over there...]
MJ Evermore - #
Hello Friends!
My name is MJ Evermore. Home base is Indianapolis, IN in the United States. Current juggling passions are for 2-4 person club passing patterns. This year I have the pleasure of being one of the coordinators for Flow Fest Indy and continuing to support another beloved festival called Breathe as their cirque programming director. If I'm not training dance trapeze in our local aerial gym you can find me playing the garden with my two dogs and amazing cat.
Hi MJ
Welcome to the Edge
Have a hashtag to help people find more about your event
#FlowFestIndy
I hope the dogs are not jealous of the cat's amazingness. :)
Does anyone have a full backup of the juggling.tv archive?
I know I'm way out of the loop on this, but I've not been able to work out if the jtv archive still exists anywhere. I saw some hints that maybe oddballs took it over briefly?
I would love to access a specific video of it's possible for someone to help me out? Here's a link to the video page on the web archive, but it doesn't include the video itself:
https://web.archive.org/web/20241207141708/https://juggling.tv/5737
Oddballs might have, since they have been the last people to have run #jtv:
- https://jugglingedge.com/forum.php?ThreadID=4053#Small27547
But maybe there never was a backup but only the server who hosted the videos. That would be a pity but understandable because the storage would have cost a lot and they would have needed a sychronisation of every newly uploaded video to the platform.
Here are all the links posted during April 2026:
The following hashtags were used:
Maybe it is just me, but where is the address of the EJC in Ptuj? I cannot find the information:
- https://ejc2026.org/getting-there/
Why is this years EJC not able to put the basic information online?
#ejc2026
Ptuj is pretty small - only 17,500 inhabitants, 25 km².
So, it looks like maybe(?) the whole town is kind of involved, and artists will be like everywhere(?), I could imagine.
• https://visitptuj.eu/en/see-do/current-events/juggling-ptuj/
- scrolled near end it says under 'Info --> Where? : right in town: 'Panorama and Ptuj historic town centre'
• https://ejc2026.org/getting-there/ ( indeed, no entry point or center of it all given, here )
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptuj
will be kind'a self-explaining then.
pauldonegan - #
Hi all!
Is Will Streathfield still on here?
My spelling may not be perfect!
Trying to get in touch after seeing each other at Bjc Preston..
Oh, hope youre all well!
Regards,
Paul Donegan
BBU 2026 set-up volunteers
It's less than 4 weeks to Bungay 🙂
If anyone would like to arrive early and help with set-up, let me know. I will be arriving the evening of Wed 13 May, and we'll be setting up the site on the Thursday and Friday. Any extra assistance is appreciated, even if you're only arriving a little early.
But please let us know if you want to come early to help set up. Otherwise the site doesn't officially open until 6pm on Fri 15 May!
Typical jobs include:
• loading boxes, carpet, and furniture onto and off vehicles
• nailing down the carpet in the tents
• cleaning sinks and furniture that's been left outside
• hammering signs into the ground
• popping to the shops for stuff we find we need
• and just general sorting stuff out
But we have jobs suitable for all abilities. Even if all you can do is make cups of tea for the workers 🙂
#bbu
I am practicing 7 ball mills mess.
Happy Haruya - - Parent #
In a 7 count.
I think this trick is vary difficult.
Heya, new here.
Used to be involved in all the juggling things in Edinburgh but it's been years - almost 20. I was always into diabolo in particular - never quite got the hang of getting three going at once, but I did get pretty good at two. :)
I almost made it down to the Bungay event last year but struggled a bit too much with the journey and stuff. I'd really like to make it there some day, it looks so cool. Maybe I should start with something nearer first though. ^^
mike.armstrong - - Parent #
Hopefully see you at the Scottish Convention if Bungay turns out to be too far: https://jugglingedge.com/event.php?EventID=6520
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