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Daniel Simu -

Charlie Chaplin juggler

I saw an old TV clip of a female juggler I didn't recognise at first, but then I wondered if the was perhaps the woman who opens her act with a Charlie Chaplin impression. I wanted to look her up, but forgot her name and google failed to help me, who is she again? Isn't she the wife of another famous juggler?

The Void - - Parent

I think you're thinking of Natalie Enterline.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Thanks, that was indeed who I meant, and now I'm pretty sure that she is not the juggler I saw in my clip. My brain confused hat spinning (with a stick) with hat & baton, haha

Colin E. -

A robot Kendama?

I love this machine. Could watch it forever. pic.twitter.com/dvjUjpaMb6
— Vlastimil Hovan (@Vlastimil_Hovan) October 16, 2017


(watch to the end) not quite a 6th Dan, but still very impressive. Can't believe the guy watching this contraption walked away just as it got to the best bit!

lukeburrage - - Parent

It looks as though the guy works at the stand, and has seen it do the same routine all day. I'd be bored by it on the third day of a convention too!

Orinoco - - Parent

Very interesting, especially as I watched this video immediately after reading this piece from The New Yorker: welcoming our new robot overlords. The article mentions that object manipulation is one of the hottest topics in robotics.

I would like to see the larger version of this robot found in the comments do the throw, whip around, catch trick with a person.

https://youtu.be/cJCsomGwdk0

It's Him -

Congratulations to the Void!

I have just read on a Facebook post from Donald Grant that he has passed his 6th Dan Kendama exam. this is the highest level and he has become the first ever non-Japanese to manage it. I know that he has had several attempts beforehand and that it had proved elusive even though all the individual skills were doable. So many congratulations on his perseverance.

Nigel

It's Him - - Parent

Apologies for the uncapitalised 't' at the start of a sentence. Just goes to show I should read my posts more thoroughly before hitting the post button.

Nigel

The Void - - Parent

Thank you, Nigel. I'll even forgive you the "t".

I wrote a Twitter thread about it, that starts here:
Today I became the first non-Japanese player to pass the highest grade of 6th Dan in kendama. It's the hardest thing I've ever done. 1/- pic.twitter.com/SdzusdcqQn
— The Void (@TheVoidTLMB) October 14, 2017

Scott Seltzer - - Parent

Mazal tov from Israel.

lukeburrage - - Parent

This is really cool. Congrats.

Is there an easy to read list of the tricks you needed to do, with video links?

Thanar - - Parent

I don't know enough about kendama to be sure, but this video claims to show all the tricks for 6th Dan in kendama: https://youtu.be/Yx47Uh6OfQo

The Void - - Parent

Hi Luke,
Thank you.
http://kendama.co.uk/tricks.html lists them all, with gifs, if that will do you. Right hand column of the Advanced/Dan table will show you how many of each one I had to do successfully in 10 attempts. (Plus, of course, having previously done all the stuff to get to 5th Dan, and then wait a year before being allowed to try.)

lukeburrage - - Parent

Yes, the list is good and the rules are clear. The gifs make my eyes bleed though, so the video was highly appreciated.

The Void - - Parent

If you want to read the long* story, it’s at http://kendama.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3098.msg29896.html#msg29896 (after the tweets).

* Don’t say I didn’t warn you.

Orinoco - - Parent

That was a great read thank you. The story is always much more interesting than just the bare facts. All the more satisfying to learn that your achievement was in spite of sub-optimal conditions.


* As ever I disagree with the insinuation that 'long' equals 'bad'.

7b_wizard - - Parent

I go along with that.
On foreign terrain it's so much the better an achievement as the natives always have an edge or two with a long tradition an' all on their side. On a side note, as a halfway decent chess player (over 50% on club level), I had been into Chinese Chess, Xiangqi, for a while, and the natives (real-life and online play) gave me a hard time to even win one game and leave rookie level, while I could win games against germans or other longnoses. However.
Congrats, The Void!

Kelhoon - - Parent

Congrats Void, well done

The Sound of Juggling -

Halli Hallo from Salzburg
thank you for adding us
we are cooking for you a wonderful little convention here, first time in salzburg :-)
will be 4 days of workshops,24h turnsaal,2mast circus tent,games, open stage, Gala show and a Show from the new circus training center here in salzburg and more
save the dates 31.5.2018-3.6.2018
registration start on the 1.1.2018(limited to 250 jugglers)
our idea was born from our willing to say "thank you" for making us a circus training center(link is added down) and from the convention we hope to be able to donate the profit for the center.
check out our new website: www.soundofjuggling.com
and our facebook page(like it if u like it)https://www.facebook.com/soundofjuggling/
and this is the new CTC in salzburg...new home for artists like us https://www.facebook.com/Circustrainingscentrum-Salzburg-1992519761035275/

looking forward to meet some of you in the sound of juggling-salzburg

JonPeat -

Camvention 2017 - Review

Thank you for running another excellent convention, Camvention! :-D

I have written a review and I know some of you are excited to read it. Unfortunately, it will not be posted online till Wednesday this week due to delays on the IJA side of the pond.

JonPeat - - Parent

... interestingly a copied and pasted emoji from Facebook meant the rest of message was not posted...

Here it is:

Thank you for running another excellent convention, Camvention! :-D

I have written a review and I know some of you are excited to read it. Unfortunately, it will not be posted online till Wednesday this week due to delays on the IJA side of the pond. (sad emoji face with a little tear on its sad face)

If you keep an eye on this page you may get the first glimpse when it does come online: https://www.juggle.org/category/ejuggle-festival-reviews/

I will re-post with a direct link when it does become available. :-)

Scott Seltzer - - Parent

https://www.juggle.org/camvention-2017-cambridge-juggling-convention-review-uk/

Delays were on the IJA side of the Mediterranean.

-Scott

Little Paul -

Anyone know if there’s a proposed date for chocfest yet? I can’t see anything in the events listing, but I’m trying to plan my January :)

Little Paul - - Parent

Damnit! Chocfest have just announced they’re going 20th jan - the one weekend I didn’t want them to go for :(

York Jugglers - - Parent

Sorry, we booked it straight after last Chocfest, but the someone else had already booked our preferred date so we had to go for a week earlier.

Does this mean you might not be coming Paul?

www.jugglingedge.com/event.php?EventID=4746

#chocfest23

Little Paul - - Parent

It means I definitely won’t be coming, I’m getting married instead - venue and registrar we’re booked this afternoon.

It also means some of my guest list will have to choose too :(

If only you had announced yesterday!

lukeburrage - - Parent

Congrats!

Mike Moore - - Parent

Wow! Congratulations!

Kelhoon - - Parent

congrats on the wedding, boo for the clashes

charlieh - - Parent

Yay! Congrats!

The Void - - Parent

Congrats to you both.

Orinoco - - Parent

Yay! Congratulations to you both!

Al_Bee - - Parent

Yay. Many congrats. Best wishes to you both. Have fun!

Bob Dilworth - - Parent

Congratulations, Paul. Great news!

Mike Moore -

Strengthening joints?

When I work on inverted sprung cascade[1], my elbows hurt the next day, even though at the time the pattern feels relaxed and lovely. I've not pushed things lately, but I'd really like to work on this (and some related patterns) harder.

Does anyone have any experience with prehab for elbows? The range of motion certainly isn't straining my flexibility, but would stretching help anyway[2]?

[1] - this is what ISC looks like, so you can see the particular movements: https://www.instagram.com/p/BXOR0PMloE3/
[2] - looking for something more than a "it couldn't hurt!" answer here.

pumpkineater23 - - Parent

Try not to damage your elbows. I've had a recurring sore elbow for the past few weeks.. wasn't sure why, perhaps it's something juggling related. I have been practicing hi-lo inv box recently (still not running it but getting closer). My pain is at the top of my forearm, opposite side of elbow. I had tennis elbow a few years back, it took months to heal! A tennis elbow pressure strap, regular hard self-massaging to the painful area, and Ibuprofen helps alot. Ice is good too. ISC looks really crazy, I don't think many people can do that!

Mike Moore - - Parent

The pain your describing sounds like the same injury I've had a few times, practicing similar patterns. The first time, when I didn't know the warning signs, I was out for ~2-3 months.

Perhaps it's time to invest in a tennis elbow pressure strap. Thanks for the thoughts.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

In this trick you're placing sideways stress on a hinge joint. That's never any good, and I don't think you can do much to strenghten that joint.
What you probably can do is stretch and train the muscles around your shoulder to more actively and easily make the outward rotation. A physio/sports therapist should be able to guide you in that!

Mike Moore - - Parent

Interesting, thanks. I've heard other box jugglers talk about shoulders hurting from practicing these types of things, but I've never had any shoulder issues (I guess I'm lucky with those joints!). I'll be sure to be cognizant of that potential injury, though.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

I don't think you're potentially injuring your shoulder, I think your shoulder should be capable of taking the impact which is now getting on your elbow. Stretching the shoulder might help it do that!


Lift your arm to the front, and then bend the elbow with your forearm going up, so you're making pretty much the position you hold in the inverted sprung cascade. Now try to rotate your fore arm outwards while keeping the elbow in the same spot in space. This movement comes from the shoulder, not the elbow. However, if the shoulder is incabable of making this move easily, you might put some stress on the elbow joint sideways, which it can't deal with very well. By becoming more flexible, and/or stronger so that you can make the rotation more actively, you could release the stress on the elbow.

Maybe lookup "external shoulder rotation"

Mike Moore - - Parent

Ah, thanks for setting me straight, I had completely misinterpreted.

I've looked up external shoulder rotation, thanks.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Interesting thread. [ #injuries #anatomy #physio #elbow #shoulder ]

Bob Dilworth -

Thanks for signing me up to this. I haven't been around the juggling 'scene' for a while although I do miss it and hope to show up at a convention or two soon.

I have recently decided that it is time a got finally got down to nailing 5 ball cascade before I get too old. I first started trying it more than twenty years ago, could this be a record?

I mostly miss club-passing.

Bob.

Little Paul - - Parent

Bob! Long time no see!

Last I saw of you, you were doing the rounds on the TV quiz circuit, you still quizzing?

Bob Dilworth - - Parent

Hi Paul!

I still do regular pub quizzes but the TV career has been on hold for a while :-). I also play drums in a rock covers band. Still have fond memories of the convention days. How are things in your world?

Marvin -

The Green Eggs Report for September 2017 is now available. Last month 38 people made 153 posts containing 52 links. See past reports.

7b_wizard -

practise versus ``talent´´

(no matter which level you're on - just started or world champion ..)
How much do you think that all your skills are (to which part) a result of practise or hard ``work´´, perseverance, or else
(to which part) did they ``come to you´´ by a natural preference for juggling (or object manipulation or artistry oror) or by a natural predisposition or a love for juggling making learning easier (than e.g. for the average juggler, or e.g. than learning another skill or art of motion or sportive activity)?

  1. no talent or predisposition or preference - it's 100% hard work or perseverant regular practise or strong will only got me there.
  2. some talent or predisposition or preference - but mostly practise or work or perseverance or strong will.
  3. a good portion of talent or predisposition or preference - but somewhat more practise or work or perseverance or strong will.
  4. about equal.
  5. somewhat more talent or predisposition or preference - but it couldn't have grown & developed without a notable and regular amount of practise or work or perseverance or strong will.
  6. notably more talent or predisposition or preference - but it won't yield without a bit of practise or coping with or some will to improve.
  7. I learn extremely fast and don't see upper limits below highest levels. I think, I'm a ``natural´´.
  8. other \ depends \ easy for s'swaps and few prop tricks, but hard for numbers \ easy for basic patterns, but hard for tricks


A few aspects helping to answer:
Even Gatto said sth like, there's no such thing talent on his level or for him - it was all hard hard work.
Think of what you can't do even though you think you should.
Was your decision or how you got to juggling totally intrinsic (=absolutely "yours" and the only thing to do, ``necessary´´ in a way) or could it just aswell have been something else, another hobby or activity.
Do you see yourself improving and learning much faster than others (that's the point, not learning easy stuff fast only).
Do others admire the speed you improve or learn (while you yourself might not have noticed).

And a question that I'm interested in:
Do you think or have you experienced a hidden talent waking up after already having juggled for a good while? Do you think that's possible to ``wake up the natural inside you´´?

This is a competition thread which ran from 30th Sep 2017 to 10th Oct 2017. View results.

7b_wizard - - Parent

I myself am somewhere between 2 and 3, but sill blundering a real lot when not yet warmed up or when not concentrating, also failing over long phases, makes me say "2", even though I hope for it to become easier, maybe the natural skill inside waking up, some day when I've reached my goals and then not having to so much do at the limit anymore. I don't think I'd have gotten where I am without the inner decision to dedicate to the 7b cascade, which is maybe rather a preference than ``natural talent´´, who knows.

7b_wizard - - Parent

If i get 13 catches of 9b today or 7b > 100 c, I'll change to "5" ;o])

Daniel Simu - - Parent

You're asking multiple questions at once, which makes it hard to answer correctly...

I think I have some but little natural talent in learning object manipulation skills. However I am extremely predisposed to love juggling which makes it incredibly easy to spend countless hours on practice. So effectively my natural affection for juggling makes me a good juggler?

7b_wizard - - Parent

Yes, [>>"multiple wording"<<], wanted to include a wide range of viewpoints for "talent\\not talent".

Okay, that makes it a bit difficult ("little natural talent, but love for juggling making practise easy"),
but, as the question is scaled along "talent vs. practise", I'd say, your description says, that your love for juggling sort of enables or helps you to make up for little natural talent. But you don't sound, like new skills ``come to you´´ or that your natural afffection for juggling makes learning (notably) easier than for the average juggler or than another activity - at least not in a way that would spare you to still having to practise a whole lot. That would be a clear "2", I'd say.

So, @ all, if in doubt, feel free to read the options as roughly ..

1. 0-5% talent - 95-100% practise (hard work only)
2. 5-25% talent - 75-95% practise
3. 25-45% talent - 55-75% practise
4. 45-55% talent - 45-55% practise (equal)
5. 55-75% talent - 25-45% practise
6. 75-95% talent - 5-25% practise
7. 95-100% talent - 0-5% practise (pure talent, just do it and it will naturally succeed in ridiculously short time)

Orinoco - - Parent

I put myself down as a number 2. I think I'm very similar to Daniel, I got good at juggling because when I first started I enjoyed it so much I did nothing but practice. Perhaps because of my enjoyment I didn't realise it was 'hard work'.

peterbone - - Parent

Agreed. The choices are made a bit complex by the 'love of juggling' part, which I think makes the vote lose focus on the nature vs nurture argument. I think that any natural aptitude is very small, but I voted 2 for the same reason as you.

Interesting Gatto's comment that he thinks it was all hard work. Where does that quote come from? On his own forum years ago he said that he believes he has some kind of natural advantage and sees things "in slow motion". Although I don't believe that at all I do think that believing it helped him a lot.

Scott Seltzer - - Parent

I always thought that seeing things in slow motion is acquired. When you first start attempting 5 balls it feels frantic and crazy fast and impossible. After a while (perhaps a few years or more), it can seem slow and simple. Gravity obviously hasn't changed but your perception has.

Sometime after I was pretty solid with 5 balls, I remember when it really clicked even more and became truly effortless. I fondly remember that as my juggling nirvana.

7b_wizard - - Parent

That 'love of juggling' wording is due to me trying to exclude, that ``talent´´ (which anyway is hard to seize as notion) need be determined by some genetic predisposition, let alone by a distinct ``juggling gene´´. And I tried to allow, that a wunderkind could feel as a natural without a need to have genetic evidence, without the need to have been ``born as juggler´´, just with love of juggling, then. Also, I wanted to avoid any discussion about whether ``(genetic) talent´´ even exists or not.

That Gatto statement is nothing like a citation with a source; I had it in mind, read it somewhere - it might be a mere rumour or misinterpretation (alas, I have no idea, where I got that from).

Mike Moore - - Parent

I'd put me somewhere between 5-6. When I can dredge up enough time to practice daily, I feel my progress goes by leaps and bounds, and it seems like I could be /very/ good if I were to try to make a career of juggling (or prioritize it higher).

There are certainly people who pick things up faster than me, but that population seems to be somewhere between 10-25 % of jugglers I know. There's probably some selection bias in there.

pumpkineater23 - - Parent

I'm a 2. I find it very difficult to understand juggling patterns and I've always learned everything slower than most. My love of juggling has helped me keep up the practicing.

Marvin - - Parent

This poll has now ended. The results are:

  1.   no talent or predisposition or preference - it's 100% hard work or perseverant regular practise or strong will only got me there. (0 votes)
  2.   some talent or predisposition or preference - but mostly practise or work or perseverance or strong will. (6 votes)
  3.   a good portion of talent or predisposition or preference - but somewhat more practise or work or perseverance or strong will. (1 vote)
  4.   about equal. (0 votes)
  5.   somewhat more talent or predisposition or preference - but it couldn't have grown & developed without a notable and regular amount of practise or work or perseverance or strong will. (0 votes)
  6.   notably more talent or predisposition or preference - but it won't yield without a bit of practise or coping with or some will to improve. (1 vote)
  7.   I learn extremely fast and don't see upper limits below highest levels. I think, I'm a ``natural´´. (0 votes)
  8.   other \ depends \ easy for s'swaps and few prop tricks, but hard for numbers \ easy for basic patterns, but hard for tricks (1 vote)

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