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#NewFeature
Mike Moore - - Parent #
I'm curious: was there a request for this feature? Something you thought would be useful now, or in the future?
There have been 3 requests for this feature, & I feel that given my general belief that people should moderate themselves I think it's important that I give people the tools to do so. The log & records sections have both grown in popularity, & are not far off being used as much as the forum so I thought it was time I extended the block function to cover them.
Mike Moore - - Parent #
Oops, I misread: I thought this was the introduction of a blocking feature, not an extension. If I had a nickel for every feature I was unaware of...
(To be clear, I am aware that these features are documented, and my ignorance is due to me not reading them, not any fault of our God Emperor)
Little Paul - - Parent #
Interesting, made me check a bit of the edge I don't check very often... interesting change to the No.2 spot
Little Paul - - Parent #
Supersecretsquirrelist.
Little Paul - - Parent #
I think the change at the top is amusing me most.
Maybe this one?
https://jugglingedge.com/greeneggs.php?Year=2015&Month=8
pumpkineater23 - - Parent #
Would only allowing records to be listed if there is video evidence be a good idea? Isn't that (kind of) what Guinness do - provide some kind of proof? The stuff that doesn't have video evidence could be listed separately in a 'Personal Best' chart. The records section seems (rightly) competitive!
No. I don't like that idea. The feature is for unofficial records like the original bogleg. Bogleg did have a voting system though. If you didn't believe someone's record you could vote it down.
pumpkineater23 - - Parent #
Genuinely interested to know why you don't think it's a good idea? Is it because many jugglers might not have a camera there when they break records? Surely if someone is trying to break records it would be wise to film it. Or is it something else? Personally I find it difficult juggling in front of a camera - is that it? If it's unofficial then it's not really setting a record, it's just a claim.
I think we interpret the records section differently. For me they are personal records. I put them there to chart my progress for various tricks and to motivate myself. I'm not concerned about whether people believe them or not and I'm not really bothered when I see records of other people that I don't believe. They're only cheating themselves. For official numbers records we have JISCON. There's also already a way to link to videos from a record here if you feel the need to prove yourself.
Brook Roberts - - Parent #
Agree, most of my 'records' are personal bests, mostly unimpressive, and done to chart progress/motivate myself. I couldn't be bothered with videoing myself, and with maybe a couple of exceptions, the videos would be of basically no interest to anyone.
I think what you are suggesting is a good idea. Only allowing records with video evidence would make things more official and seem more legit..........However what Peterbone is saying sounds good as well....
perhaps it is time for a change;) what do you say Orin? Maybe it would help.......
As someone who uses the site primarily for tracking records, I wouldn't like for there to be a divide between the videoed and non-videoed records. For me this is a fun site where you can track your progress against yourself and others without any delusions that you're setting official world records or anything. I suspect I'd stop posting records if I had to post videos alongside them to validate them here.
That said, it is a quite a frustration/irritation for me when some of the records posted are so wildly out of line with all the available supporting evidence that they're almost impossible to believe. No prizes for guessing which records I'm referring to...
I know I could now block those records from view but that would probably annoy me more as I'd know they were still there.
Ultimately the simple solution to the problem is one that only you can provide Ethan - either post the video evidence you have of your most impressive records or remove all the records you've made up....
So what your saying is only "I" have to post videos of my god damn records and nobody else has to?? Is that what your saying??? Personally I think that's BS......
If you don't think I'm legit, then bring it up with Orin.........Bring it up to my freaking face and stop beating around the bush...........Just say it, "Ethan, your a fake"...........Which I am not, but just say it like it is!!
All you grumpy old jugglers who sit around and hate on me are what brings this site down. I view this site as a SUPPORTIVE juggling community. Not a eat you alive and spit you out community!!
Let me tell you. I work hard. All day I basically do nothing but juggle. I WORK! I have wasted friendships, I have wasted opportunities, all because I work hard to be THE best......And now you're telling me that I am a fake????
good day to you sir.
Little Paul - - Parent #
I would just like to add that I'm finding this whole thread hilarious
Yep, some true comedy gold in here!
I completely agree with PipJim's take on the records section. Requiring video evidence is too much to ask & will kill people's involvement pretty quick. Watching countless hours of mind numbing endurance runs to verify a record is certainly not my idea of fun. I certainly have no interest or intention to put myself through that kind of torture, & I wouldn't expect anyone else to either. There is a reason why JISCON limit their tracking to base patterns.
Ethan, I don't think that it is your records that are causing friction, but the way you treat other people. You regularly offer video evidence on request. There have been multiple requests that I know you've seen because you keep searching the forum for your name. Have you provided any of these videos? Your method of posting records that are only high enough to get the top spot but not necessarily your true record is thoroughly unsporting. You talk about the community being supportive, but you seem to treat everyone as an opponent to be ground into dust. Then recently there was the way you treated those girls who stopped to watch you. In response I think people are attacking your records because that is what you appear to hold most dear. I believe you are an amazing juggler but if you can't connect with people every minute of all that hard work you've put in will be wasted.
So I think everyone should have a nice cup of tea & a sit down.
Mïark's 100 catches of 3 teapots. That's got to be made up, right?
I will try my hardest to be a better person...........It just annoys me that people seem to be hating on me constantly, they seem to always think I lie .........Any way.........
A cup of tea would be nice..........And yeah.......Who even has 3 teapots??? Oh yeah, I forgot, the British;) strange people the Brits;)
Who even has 3 teapots???
Our juggling club has 15 teapots in all different shapes and sizes (and materials) so you can choose the most appropriate one for the pot of tea you are making.
And yes, my record was achieved using different sized teapots.
Is it weird that when I drink tea I heat it up to 120 F then put 3 things of sugar in it? That's only with English breakfast tea though.........ahhhhh......English breakfast tea........I'm half English, so every other year or so, I go to England. And the last time I was in London, I discovered the beauty of English breakfast tea. mmmmmmmm.....The taste.........I can almost smell it..........The hotel I was staying at had like 30 tea bags on the dresser.......I had probably at least 4 cups a day.........ahhhhh........those were good days........
120 F ‽‽ I wouldn't make coffee in water that cold!
You need about 200 F for making tea (slightly lower temperature for delicate teas).
Next time you are in England, come to a juggling convention and we can enjoy a cup of tea that isn't stone cold.
Hi, Ethan,
there's been some friendly requests on your claims on rather outstanding skills .. in only very few among these requests, I read unbelief was prior, which maybe was or maybe could be read as offensive regarding also how much work lies in achieving such outstanding tricks .. .. . . .. .
.. .. " A tree that falls, makes more riot, than a wood that grows."
[chinese saying]
(or: One plane that crashes will make it to the news around the globe, while hundreds of thousands of succeeded landings won't)
.. will say: one single ``attack´´ not explicitly disagreed to by the rest of the community doesn't mean, "everyone" is against you! I think - or I hope and believe - most are with you in essence, cherishing a great young juggler among them here, like I do.
° "read as being offensive regarding how much work .. [a.s.o.]" .. then being confronted with disbelief °
pumpkineater23 - - Parent #
"Mïark's 100 catches of 3 teapots. That's got to be made up, right?"
I was wondering about that a couple of days ago. Are the teapots spun and then caught with the handle or thrown like a ball with the base of the teapot?
Little Paul - - Parent #
and what type of chocolate were they made from?
Hey! My teapot juggling record is genuine! I even had witnesses (almost - well the other members of the juggling club did wonder why I was making quite so much noise in the kitchen when I was supposed to be making tea).
The tea pots were spun and most of the catches were by the handle, I used stainless steel teapots which had hinged lids that kept noisily flapping open and shut.
Even if someone does manage to get 101 catches I have held this record for over 2 years - so there!!
Mike Moore - - Parent #
Serious question: What has stopped you from posting videos? This isn't the first time people have given you a hard time about your posted records, and some of them even say "Video upon request". There are some I'd really like to see (in particular, I think the 5b cascade under the legs would look amazing).
Brook Roberts - - Parent #
He has a video on his youtube channel. I suspect that is one of the main factors in peoples doubts of his records.
Scott Seltzer - - Parent #
I don't know anything about you, Ethan, nor about the records section, or the specific records in question. But as a member of the (mostly defunct) JISCON, I can suggest that we had a loophole for someone who couldn't provide evidence of their claim. If you could even post a video that is close-ish, that would show that you likely have the capability in question, then that might help your image here.
Yeah, .. You can't entirely record your practise, then pick out the records when they happen .. and confirming a record with then camera running is another thing.
JackJuggles - - Parent #
Well when you posted that 9 ball reverse cascade record that you claimed to have a video of, the 9 ball reverse cascade WORLD record says you claimed to have 25 catches. Why didn't you show them the video?
I'm guessing that he's planning a montage video of all his hard tricks. He's deliberately encouraging doubters now so that he can feel even better when he releases the video.
pumpkineater23 - - Parent #
"For me this is a fun site where you can track your progress against yourself and others without any delusions that you're setting official world records or anything".
I can see what you mean there. I suppose it's just the word 'Records' that makes me think it should be an official thing. 'Progress' then seems a more suitable word.
Agree with PipJim.
I would never want to be forced to upload video evidence, as my records will primarily be for my personal tracking. However, I do like having an _honest_ comparison of other people and hate the fact that the records are so easily exploitable.
I think the voting thing Peter mentioned could be a nice feature. It would at least be interesting.
Or, there could be non-official claim tracking (basically the current without the leaderboards) as well as public official records -- a top-10 true records leader board (for the different tricks) that require video evidence.
The current solution of blocking a user may be useful, but it is irrelevant to the false claims problem, which I do think needs to be addressed.
Why would anybody even want to make false record claims? If you were a spammer then why would you randomly target a juggling site? It seems strange. If I were a fake, then I must be the best fake and lier in the world.....I must be an insane master of psychology and human mind manipulation.............It is completely stupid to think that people would go threw the longish sign up process just to mess with a juggling site.........And then they would have to make a fake personal website and a fake youtube channel and call themselves "Ethan"..............That would be REALLY difficult......And kind of insane.........
But I do think that anybody who BEATS a record should have to post a video.
I doubt anyone would specifically seek to troll a juggling site, but its entirely plausible that people would not be fully honest especially if they wanted to top out the record boards. People have done crazier things to top a leaderboard. That's why I agree with you that their should be a true records (not claims) boards with X (X=5? 10?) number of spots that require video evidence to hold.
FWIW, I never claimed you were a fake (and I certainly do believe you are Ethan). I do, however, find it hard to believe that all your records are genuine. It would be easy to silence the doubters; all you would have to do is post the video of some of your records that have "video[s] if wanted". It does seem they are wanted by several people and I would certainly enjoy watching the impressive feats myself.
Grammar is sometime vital: There's a world of difference between
"and I certainly do believe you are, Ethan" and
"and I certainly do believe you are 'Ethan' ".
I'm pretty sure you mean the latter, sheneron.
I have no interest or POV on the records/verrification issue.
Stay nice, everyone. :-)
Little Paul - - Parent #
"Billy helped his uncle Jack off his horse"
Firstly I am sorry for being a grumpy old juggler and massive cynic.
Secondly I don't think anyone doubts you are a juggler. You clearly are and a half decent one at that.
The reason for my doubt is that your progress is the most exceptional I've ever seen in my 10 years of juggling. To go from some 20 odd catches of 7 to 60 catches of 8 in the space of a week is borderline unbelievable given everything I've seen previously.
As I mentioned some time back I would actually love if someone were making that kind of progress and it would put you up there among a list of jugglers capable of going on to push the boundaries of what's been achieved in juggling.
My interest in juggling at the very top level is purely academic. I love to see people coming through and pushing things forward. I just want to physically see it at that level rather then trust in the word of the Internet (who might be motivated say by being able to claim multiple world records on their website in order to generate custom)
If I doubt you incorrectly I can only apologise. My mind is just conditioned to question the improbable, and your records are improbable whether they're entirely genuine or not
I'll furnish you with drink and cake by way of an apology when I make it to America and the ija if it turns out you are simply a very talented young juggler and I'm just a grumpy old sod.
Just excuse an old man the right to ask for (existing) evidence when you claim something extraordinary.
If someone has 20 catches of 7 balls listed, it doesn't mean they haven't done more. I think it's possible that Ethan may only be updating records if he can get the top spot. His primary purpose seems to be a competitive one rather than charting his own progress, and I think that's fine. People can interpret the records feature however they wish. I do have some doubts about Ethan's records as well, but I don't believe he would completely make them up. For example, he has 8 catches of cc88441, which I assume he did by doing one cycle, doing another high throw and then collecting. I wouldn't count that as 8 catches, but there aren't any rules to say that you shouldn't. Likewise there aren't any rules to say that you shouldn't juggle playing cards by screwing them up into balls (not that he would do that either - I'm just making a point).
Yes fair point re. the records listed not necessarily reflecting what you're capable of or your genuine best. However, some of Ethan's records are wildly out of kilter with all the other evidence currently made available - eg. his Youtube channel videos, his failure post videos he claims to have despite repeated requests and volunteering to post them, his other records listed here, the speed with which he's able to beat every record that's improved upon by another user, the celebrations of a 3 ball "world record" but no acknowledgement of a 9 ball one despite it being pointed out to him twice and claiming to have it on video, his claim that as well as juggling full time he's also a runner of exceptional pedigree and, more generally, just my existing experience of seeing what other jugglers can do.
I'm not saying these things are impossible, but they do seem unlikely. Much as I don't like to doubt people, I've seen enough made up stuff on the internet to make me doubt most things that seem improbable until I see evidence to the contary. I don't like to be such a cynic, but I just can't help it.
"I'll take all of that as a complement......."
You're right Ethan, you should take what I say as a complement. Assuming they're true, I find some of your feats pretty impressive. The prime reason for my doubts are the exceptional nature of your postings and I think you should be proud of what you've achieved (assuming you've achieved it of course ;) ).
The fact I find it hard to believe you is based on my other experiences, upbringing and the way I think. The fault is mine (and probably society's more generally). It's not because I'm hating on you, nor a reflection on you personally, it's only really an indication of how impressive your posted records are. I wouldn't even think of doubting your records if they were boringly average.
pumpkineater23 - - Parent #
I think it's highly unlikely that he would be making anything up.. unless of course he's an insane master of psychology and human mind manipulation.
Maybe he likes to be disbelieved because it makes his achievements feel all the more difficult. I'm just saying that he could well have done all that he's said he's done. There's also the possibility that he hasn't. I did find it strange that he beat one of my records less than 5 minutes after I beat his and the fact that it was the middle of the night in the US, where I believe he lives. However, he could have beaten it previously and was waiting for me to beat his previous record before putting his new record.
Hell yeah!!! All of you haters just make me better;)
And It was like 5:00 in the morning when I beat your record.........yeah yeah......I wake up too early.....today was probably the latest I have ever woken up since I joined this site! You here that Orin?!? Your site is causing me to be sleep deprived!!! I just sit in bed at night and think about what I would do if Ilia Poliakov beats one of my "Records"...........
Little Paul - - Parent #
I'd been assuming that something like this is going on[1]:
Juggler A - I can do 10 catches of $trick - that's the record
Juggler B - I've got 80 catches of $trick in practice, but I'm not going to put that in as my record, I'll put it in as 15 catches
Juggler C - I've just got 16 catches
Juggler B - I'll put mine in as 20 catches as soon as I've seen the record, knowing that's still well under my personal best - but it's enough to claim the record.
That's the only legit way I can picture someone being able to trounce someone's record super fast.
[1] I say that as though I'm even a tiny bit interested in the records section ;)
Little Paul - - Parent #
In which case - I'm genuinely interested to know - what's in it for you?
Why not just put your true records out there? You'll still claim the top spot for all of them and you'll take away all the negativity generated by the churn.
Fair enough. It seems a strange and unsporting way to post records, but to each their own.
I'm afraid I can only continue to disbelieve some of your claims though until you provide the evidence you've offered up many times.
Little Paul - - Parent #
I think the problem with providing evidence is that if there is evidence of 80 catches but the record claimed is 25 catches - no video of that 25 catch run exists because it wasn't a 25 catch run, it was an 80 catch run.
So he can't provide the evidence without also revealing his true record - and then what would happen? Someone might beat that and he wouldn't be able to better it.
gantenbein - - Parent #
Why not just cut the clip after 25 catches?
People will see/suspect that it's been going on after that, but they wouldn't be able to guess for how long ...
Then you would have to go through all the trouble to cut the video in a video editor and then download the thing back onto Youtube.......Or onto JTV......I still haven't quite mastered putting stuff onto JTV, it doesn't appear that it shows how long you have until it's done uploading. And then I get impatient and exit off of JTV and start shouting at my computer........fun times;)
Then why would you put "video if wanted" on many of your records? Clearly you don't have most of the videos or are not willing to share them. You should stop posting that comment as it is very misleading.
It's common for world record holders to do just as much necessary to grant the record .. Isinbayeva jumping pole over 5.03 (or whatever was necessary), Gatto asking the kids into the camera doing his 7b endurance record: "How much to go?" .. it's their capital (/asset / resource) and - I find - legitimate to `use´ it as benefit out their hard work.
That does sound like it would be an extremely frustrating experience for juggler C.
As I have previously said to small children, "this game is only a fun game if everyone who's playing thinks it's fun!" - I meant it about tickle fights, but it applies to playing games in the records section also. Eventually that kid who WILL NOT STOP tickling people ends up with no friends.
There are plenty of other fun things to do after all.
This thread reminds me of the story of Richard Simpson in the climbing community.
https://climbingnarc.com/2010/12/rich-simpson-the-burden-of-proof/
In short a lot of his claims came into question and he was dropped by his sponsors, despite the fact that everyone knew he was a very strong climber. People asked for video evidence, which wasn't provided.
There seems to be a very easy compromise: give the option to provide a link to video evidence for your record, as well as the option to display only records with provided video evidence.
As a frequent editor of the Juggle Wiki on the topic of world records, and this is the option that helps us the most. The Juggle Wiki tracks (mostly endurance) records in many categories, and we do require publicly available video evidence (or validation by a reputable body, such as Guinness, JISCON, etc.). But we also list "claims" which are normally gleaned from forum posts and databases such as the one here at The Juggling Edge.
If the database here were stripped down to just records with video evidence, we would have more trouble finding such claims. But having a significant number of jugglers (optionally) posting links to video evidence would also help, especially when we decide to start tracking records for a trick and need to find the video out there of the best run.
I encourage all jugglers to browse through the existing Juggle Wiki records, find some that you can beat, and video yourself beating them! I've sponsored a few "Juggling World Record Challenges" at IJA/WJF a few years back. If there's enough interest I'd be willing to do another and put up some prize money to encourage record-breaking.
Mike Moore - - Parent #
"I encourage all jugglers to browse through the existing Juggle Wiki records, find some that you can beat, and video yourself beating them! I've sponsored a few "Juggling World Record Challenges" at IJA/WJF a few years back. If there's enough interest I'd be willing to do another and put up some prize money to encourage record-breaking."
I loved that at the IJA in 2013, it was lots of fun to try things I wouldn't have otherwise worked on.
Ameron Rosvall - - Parent #
Nice thread.
Hi Thanar,
I didn't realize it at the time, but my latest 4 clubs with balance record seems to be a world record, according to the juggle wiki.
https://youtu.be/vVMYOPaQgmc
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