8 Balls
So, today I got 8 catches of 8 balls, not a flash tho, was 10 throws, however I'm struggling in keeping the pattern looking good. As in, I can't get it to look like the fountain after the first 6 or 8 throws, it just starts looking weird. Any tips or patterns that I can use to work on this? I was personally thinking something like 8888881 or 88888880 with 7.
In regards to my 7 ball pattern, I have runs between 10 - 25 catches regularly and I've noticed that moving on to the next amount of balls has helped me improve in the past.
Any tips or help is much appriciated :)
oouh .. fhadsmenniebouuu''z ..
'k .. it seems, you're getting the problem's result (/effect) after like >=six throws (I don't think it's after the 8.-th throw due to a problem with the ninth, first caught-throw?). That means, you ..
- either used up your effort on these first <=six throws ..
- .. (if starting as somewhat faster ladder getting higher) due to throwing already the very first balls too high,
compelling you to go even higher and way too high with the rest, or ..
- .. (still if ladder-start) due to stretching towards the last throws going way too high, maybe,
- .. (if throwing at the right height from the very start) (still) used a lot of effort for these first balls, slowing your
start down (high throws with full hands) costing accuracy and precision for the following 7.-th, 8.-th, 9.-th throws,
- or you're doing the very first throws too low (andor the rest not fast enough), bringing you into zugzwang after
>=six throws when they land too early.
Else, - if you have no problems with testing different stretched starts or testing different (initial andor whole) heights - .. , maybe you're already at this early stage struggling with the different height/speed/dwelltime--ratio of 8b vs. the 6b, you're accustomed to. It should then occur to you already before the flash is done, that the pattern won't come out well, irritating you into bad last throws (7.-th & 8.-th).
And Or - in the same case of getting along well with diff. heights - you are maybe not aware of having to catch up with two more balls' dwell-time, needing either higher pattern (at same beat) andor faster throwing movements (at same height) .. not(!) faster beat only. Maybe knowing about this, but not actually doing it.
.. is what strikes me ad hoc. But I'm not sure ;o]
As to patterns .. swaps like e.g. 6b-86862 or e.g. easier 5b-66888022, but the three consecutive non-throws are irritating or 5b-86812 (! seems easy fluent and needs timing & spacing well) could get you used to 8b vs. 6b ratioes by well timing & spacing them at an easy pace.
( ° all assuming U not doing synch ° )
Sjors Stuurman - - Parent #
Thanks! I'll try and see what helps :)
RegularJugular - - Parent #
I just had a go at an 8 ball flash in wimpy before I posted this and got it in 5 attempts, (sloppy and low but y'know, still an 8 ball flash) How many attempts is it taking you to get your 8 catches?
I tried to get the 8 ball in sync & async fountain in many attempts with no success, but this is hardly surprising since I can't flash 4 in one hand every time I can barely get 6 throws let alone that number of catches. I remember I used to warm up by practicing 4b one handed flashes back when I used to go for 8b sync which used to be my only achievable pattern. My 8b sync took far more than 5 attempts and it never 'looked good'.
I personally don't find going up a number has improved my skills with fewer objects apart from by testing my strength and speed to it's limit.
So how many catches of 4 in one hand can you do? How neat is it?
My other question would be what balls\beanbags are you juggling? Out of curiosity.
Note: I'm not giving tips or advice, just sharing experience and some thoughts.
Sjors Stuurman - - Parent #
I'm not sure how many attempts, but getting 8 Catches of async took 30 minutes or so.
However with a multiplex pattern of 8 balls, I got that in like 10 tries. I personally have felt an increase in being able to juggle longer runs of 5 and 6 balls after learning 7, and my 7 balls are now improving when working on 8 as I get more speed.
Also I get regular flashes of 4b in one hand and also some longer runs of 5-7 catches in my left, dominant hand
I use Norwiks, so russians, I'm considering buying either small norwiks or uglies in the future, considering I want to work on 8 and 9 balls. My current norwiks are 67g and 75mm so fairly big.
RegularJugular - - Parent #
I think I'm a bit envious as you are probably quite a bit younger than me and you probably do benefit a lot from trying 1 more object than what you usually practice. I think I'm frustrated with it as I want more tricks and longer runs as opposed to showing that I can do 'one more'... Which isn't why you do it, if you are doing what helps.
I'm confident you will learn 8 and juggling in general faster than I ever could regardless of what method you use. I will also enjoy what I do, and maybe one good day I'll also have a crack at 9 and succeed.
Thank you :)
(I'm sorry I couldn't do as requested)
Sjors Stuurman - - Parent #
We had a good talk nonetheless and I'm sure you'll reach the level you want if you keep practising. It's what helped me and it's what helped everyone!
Brook Roberts - - Parent #
I'm fairly sure it has improved my skills, but it depends on what you're doing. I think anyone should learn 5 - to improve your hand speed and accuracy and timing to a reasonable level. Beyond that:
Helpful for siteswaps, since you often need fast high throws.
Helpful for tricks involving high throws, e.g. pirouettes
I doubt drilling 7 is going to make a big difference on body throws in 4 (although still some knock on effect I'm sure)
RegularJugular - - Parent #
Juggling 5 or 6 or 7 never hurt my progress with fewer objects. However, for me now I feel it doesn't work like it used to. My arms are mismatched muscle and flexibility wise. My posture is probably off, if these types of things are not in order juggling more objects is only a workout and potentially a workout that intensifies the flaws.
Perhaps I'm unwilling to give it enough time, but I feel that in my case I need to concentrate on accuracy, neatness and being overall more physically fit. I am not sure how I will do this, but if I follow what Peter Bone and others seem to have done to improve their numbers juggling, most of the things to try won't hurt me*.
*That said I got briefly addicted to running recently and have already got a bit of damage to my left Achilles, I should have started when I was younger.
RegularJugular - - Parent #
That was supposed to clarify how I felt about N+1 objects as a training aid, but I rushed it. I didn't mean to come off as confrontational either.
JackJuggles - - Parent #
6 ball high fountain, or 6 ball flashing(88888800) could help
And I would also recommend just working on a flash, even if it means you do not get as many catches. That builds up a clean pattern
I would generally recommend against doing N...N00 as a way of learning N balls. Same with N...N0, unless N is even.
The reason being that 0s have any time associated with them, so keeping the rhythm is difficult, which means that it's impossible to get a good idea of the speed of N, as the timing is completely unenforced.
2s can also be problematic, ...22 is just as bad as ...00, for the same reason.
Training N-1 and N-2 both extra high and extra low helps, and I swear by N...N1, regardless of the pattern (eg 771, 777771, (though not 71)).
Sjors Stuurman - - Parent #
I agree with Tom, I personally also dislike 00 and 22 patterns for those reasons, eventhough I find it hard to keep 777771 and 66661 patterns going, it did help me.
High flashes, so 88888800 could help me with 8 I think, but more as a high flash and then just a stop instead of going on with the "pattern"
Also, what do you guys think of training a 5/6 ball shower to help with your 8 balls? I have found that my 5 ball shower is about 7 ball height and 6 ball shower about 9 to 10 (eventhough the patterns are 91 and a1, I don't really juggle them as that since I don't like throwing such high showers)
*b1, otherwise 50% of siteswap-based jokes wouldn't work ;)
Personally I would argue that the 5/6 ball shower and 8 balls have pretty much nothing in common other than that training difficult high/fast things will have a very indirect help... but even then the 1-sidedness of the shower probably destroys most of the benefit unless you train showers on both sides.
I wouldn't recommend any siteswaps for training higher numbers. Anything with a 1 in it forces you to change your wrist angle and also tempts you to bring your hands closer together. I've always recommended high and low base patterns of N-2 though. I don't think N-1 base patterns help much.
How about those with 2s? Eg 552, 77772, etc. Any merit in those?
I can see the problems with ones now that I think about it. Thanks
Brook Roberts - - Parent #
As a counter to this I have found 771 very helpful for 7. I learnt it afterward (I think), but find if I warm up with it my 7 balls is a lot better. I rarely work on 7, so this may mostly be useful as a way of warming back up for it without getting frustrated, and meaning that my actual practice with 7 is more productive for the time spent on it.
I think the main use for me comes from the fact that due to it being with two less balls, I can spend a lot more care making the rhythm good and focussing on throwing good 7s. Then, when I work on 7 I've already warmed up the useful throws and am working more on the rest of the pattern. With any below pattern it will practice bits of the harder pattern, and let you get away with other parts, so the trick is either to find those that let you get away with bits you are good at, or be very disciplined (hard).
I like it enough that I'm now working on 771 with clubs because I think it will give me some practice for attempting short runs of 7 clubs. I certainly didn't try it before 5 on triples, 7777700 and so on though!
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