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Sergei -

What does it mean "flash" and "qualify" in case of 4 balls sync collumns. I know that in case of 3 b cascade it is 3 and 6 catches. How to count in case of 4 b collumns as each catching act consist of TWO balls ?

Guili - - Parent

hello sergei. according to wikipedia a flash is a form of numbers juggling where each ball is only thrown and caught once
so each hand will toss both balls, catch them and that's it :)
here an animated gif made by my great friend "palito" (sticky in english)

Sergei - - Parent

Sorry, this link is not working for me. May be I need some "sesame" word ))

Sergei - - Parent

Guili - - Parent

hi sergei! too bad.. it was just an animated gif made in jugglinglab, you know it?
it's a juggling emulator. shows you any pattern. it's really usefull.

Sergei - - Parent

Thanks, I have got it correctly, but it is the TRICK "flash"/ I mean different issue

Guili - - Parent

try now, i think it was not in "public" post

Guili - - Parent

or it is a juggling trick where every prop is simultaneously in the air and both hands are empty
like this:

Maria - - Parent

What you call one "catching act" is still 2 catches.

So a flash, 4 catches, so each ball has ben thrown and caught once, even if you do two balls at a time (like in sync patterns).

A qualify for 4 balls is 8 catches, each ball thrown and caught twice.

Guili - - Parent

ah, so when you're juggling sync patterns, a flash is like that?
(didn't get we were talking about sync patterns before)

Sergei - - Parent

Thanks, Maria, I got the point. At least I can flash 4 balls column. Two simultaneous throws and two catches of 2 balls. I warms my ambitions that I can juggle 4 balls in this humble pattern )) Next step is to qualify this pattern ))

Sergei - - Parent

As I understand you live in Sweden where my sister lives for more than 20 years (Uppsala)

Maria - - Parent

Yes, I live in Sweden, not too far away from Uppsala either. I juggle in Stockholm, though.

Sergei -

While learning reverse I still put each next toss higher and higher and after 3-4 throws everything falls apart. Today I tried the 1st ball throw much higher and at the same side which made no sense in throwing second ball higher than the first ))) somehow fooled myself. Got 20 catches. What do you, guys, think about this approach ?

The key to learning reverse cascade is to think about throwing into the middle, rather than to the other hand. Think about the point between the hands, and aim each throw to drop into that space. Escalating higher and higher throws usually come because you are throwing to the other hand, and you need to throw 'over' the incoming throw. Good luck!

Just to clarify, the balls shouldn't actually be dropping down on the centre line, because that would require too much hand movement for the catch. You want them to drop about midway between the centre line and the hand's rest position. However, it's useful to think in terms of dropping them into the 'gap' rather than into the hand. Hope this helps.

Sergei - - Parent

Thanks a lot for this idea (throwing into the center) It really helps to understand the dynamics

Monte - - Parent

You know, it's nice to hear all this enthusiasm for juggling. Takes me back to when I was excited about new tricks. I might even drive into Norwich for Matt's workshop tomorrow night,if it's still going.
Thanks, from a cynical old has been.

Sergei - - Parent

"Cynical old" )))) I guess I am older than anyone here (67). But still very motivated to learn new skills. In year 2016 made "International Chess Master" online blitz FIDE, last year learned Italian to B2 level according european standards, started learning juggling December 2017 )))

7b_wizard -

Do you juggle more than you walk?

Competition type: Poll
Closing date: 25th Feb 2018
Select option to vote

Mike Moore - - Parent

Kneejerk reaction: of course not!

But now that I'm thinking about it...I'm not so sure. If we exclude walks under a couple minutes, then it's very close.

Maria - - Parent

Same... If I count every step as walking, I definitely walk more than I juggle (especially since it is not uncommon to walk while juggling, too).

If I only count outdoor walking it might actually be less than the juggling, even though I walk to work every day. Or maybe about the same amount of time.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Yes - meant walking several steps at least, so also walking around to pick up dropped balls, just as much as walking out of the house anyway. But not tripping single steps to correct one's positon while juggling, and also not taking one-two steps towards a dropped ball to pick it up while already bending down, but just really normally walking upright.

Basically, if one sits or drives a lot and doesn't usually need to walk a lot, AND-OR gets long runs a lot while juggling, not walking around a lot while practising, but rather mostly standing, then there's a great chance that they'd juggle more than they walk.

Maria - - Parent

Does walking while juggling count as both walking and juggling? (For example passing patterns where you are walking... I do those a lot.)

Does walking from the kitchen to the livingroom count, or only walking more than a few steps?

7b_wizard - - Parent

[see answer & distinction two posts above] .. I don't know what made me have that thought, but it struck me that I am actually juggling way more than I walk. Why "walk"? .. well, it's sooo genuinely normal, we think we do it always and forever and it's so omnipresent, it's part of our definition as upright walking humans. Yeah .. wrong! - we don't do it as much as we think .. we have cars, bikes, trams, planes, trains, busses; we have professions and desks where we sit; and for many people, jogging, walking, taking a walk, wandering is an activity that they (have to) take extra time for. Walking is not ``always there´´ as one might easily first think.

So, one juggler might indeed be juggling (notably) more time than doing what seems granted fro a member of the human upright walking species.

( It's a bit analogue to the insight that modern (over)civilized humans don't walk anymore as much as they used to and not walk as much anymore as what they were ``originally meant for´´, but have cars and sit a lot now, instead. Just that now for juggling, and if it's true for you. )

Guili - - Parent

if we take walking as an activity, not just moving yourself through the house, like maria said, then I definetively juggle a LOT more than i walk...

7b_wizard - - Parent

Any walking counts as "human upright walk", no matter where, while what (even while juggling). Just "time walked" versus "time juggled without walking". One-two steps don't count as really "walking upright" (and it's seconds only anyway), but time of indeed really (clearly) "walking while juggling" counts as +-0, and "walking through the house" is "walking" through the house and counts as such. - Anyway - if one's answer should depend on such distinctions and it's not clear, then please choose "3. Not sure." (unclear, not definitely or positively rather "yes", not definitely or with clear tendency towards rather "no")

Little Paul - - Parent

According to fatbit I walk more than 15k steps every day (which is around 10Km apparently)

There’s no way I juggle that much!

Sergei -

What is normal progress for beginner juggler?
How long it takes to reach and what it means "stable cascade"? What about other tricks?

Guili - - Parent

well... i guess it deppends on many factors...
mainly, the time and effort one puts on it, right?
another factor is your body and mind, i mean, it is clear to me that each one of us can be good at some things, not so much at others. for example your body and mind could be more capable for juggling than rock-climbing.
the point is to find something you like doing, and just keep doing it until you get it.
the time it takes you, only you can tell. there is no "normal" people, we're all different.
also the context, are you juggling alone? is somebody teaching you?
for example it took me a few years (teaching myself, not doing it everyday, or even everyweek) to master 4 balls, but my wife got it in like a month with my help... i don't think that means she's better that me... each one of us is walking his path.
so i guess my advice is allways compare yourself to yourself, never to others.
enjoy the progress, don't get anxious to get to the goal.
it's a brave thing you're doing. starting with this world at 67 y.o., so my respects to you!

ah, and i guess 60 catches could qualify as stable, right?
but it's endless... i mean, after getting the 60, you will want to make 100, and so on...

Sergei - - Parent

My record is 80 catches, but next time balls falls after 10-12 throws (((

Orinoco - - Parent

Never worry about how long it takes to learn a pattern. Just enjoy the process!

Little Paul - - Parent

Juggling is a journey, not a destination. Nothing wrong with enjoying the scenery!

7b_wizard - - Parent

"Stable", I'd say, for a pattern is when the pattern is well-timed (right handmovements in time, comfortable tact) and well-spaced (comfortable equal spaces between all balls, good geometry), well-aligned (no great spread, balls follow one another well, follow their flightlines well).
You can get a "stable cascade" sometimes, but still not always, still doing tensed and with arms rowing a lot (e.g. when doing a nice, but too big huge pattern), and still getting drops and fails also a lot. So, getting a "stable pattern" isn't yet the best you can get.
"Stable juggling", I'd say, means you get stable patterns a lot and have less to no drops; I guess, it also then means more control.

Other words (and notions) to describe how well a pattern (itself) runs or how the ado of juggling it goes (judging also posture, hand- and bodymovement), are "kept up [for #n rounds or catches]", "fluent", "flowy", "floaty", "snapped-in", "running", "rolling", (whatever these might distinctly mean) .. maybe "poised" (but that sounds point-of-view, like "nice" or "superb" or so), .. then, rather unprecise, I find, expressions like "getting it down" or "owning" a pattern; maybe these can mean, you can show the pattern anytime a few rounds, or else it could mean, you can do it in your sleep.

Higher levels, I'd say, would be when it is not a challenge anymore to do without drops, when hands seem to ``do all by themselves´´, when you're getting better at correcting outbreakers back to pattern (easily) with fast precise correction throws, or even when you can bail out a completely rotten pattern back to stable. When you can move, sit down, bend, turn, jogg with the pattern, do it on bycicle. When it's well in rhythm, when the whole ado (You + balls + your handmovement + the whole pattern + your brainwork + your automatisms + your mindset) feels like One.

I like (to go for) control over the pattern, full control.

How long it takes to learn depends on how much you stay aware that there's always more to still learn that you know nothing about yet, thus not getting stuck on a level where you think you got it, but don't get any better and don't understand why.
Always reckon for the unknown.

Other tricks give a compare to how juggling is more than getting the cascade down - they define the cascade and its skills as what it is among what else there also is.

Little Paul -

Now Available - Alexander Kiss book "If you are a juggler"

Niels Duinker has just released this on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1979653402/ - hopefully the ordering process will be a little easier than it was for "Juggling, The Past, and Future"

Alexander Kiss wrote, "If You are a Juggler" in the USSR in 1970. Now that it finally has been translated into English, we can all learn from this Russian circus icon and master juggler. In 1969 Alexander won the Rastelli Award, given to the top juggler in the world. In this book, Alexander Kiss shares his life's work while also offering insights to jugglers and other performers alike. From stories of juggling greats to descriptions of their famed tricks, this is a collection of valuable information to all who read it. Learn Alexander's thoughts about proper practice technique, how to structure an act, correct body position, originality, developing new tricks, prop decoration, and much more.

I'm very much looking forward to my copy turning up...

The Void - - Parent

Cheers, ordered!

Any chance of a review, LP? As brief as you like...

... or as detailed as you like.

Scott Seltzer - - Parent

eJuggle (http://www.juggle.org/ejuggle/) will have a review soon. I'll try to remember to post a link here when it comes out.

Little Paul - - Parent

Once my copy arrives, I'll certainly let people know what I think of it.

The Void -

Bungay Balls Up 2018. It's on again! Feel free to add yourselves as attendees at https://www.jugglingedge.com/event.php?EventID=4641 .

View the flier in all its glory at
#BungayBallsUp https://t.co/X0LinPt0ei Flier now with yellow text & drop-shadow! Pick 1 up at #BathUpchuck on Saturday. #juggling #upchuck pic.twitter.com/JkwFwhJVBg
— Bungay Balls Up (@BungayBallsUp) February 14, 2018

(Oh, damn, forgot that twit pics don't embed here, click the "pic.twitter" link.)

Check the website for directions, etc. http://bungayballsup.com

All the usual fun of the fair, juggling space aplenty, games a go-go, cafe on site, a possible return of the trebuchet, and Charlie's volunteered to run a Taskmaster at some point. All of this and more.

If any FightNighters want there to be one again on the last Sunday this year, then volunteer to run it! I don't fancy it this year, myself, so someone else can run it. (It's quite easy to run, really.)

See you all at the world's longest juggling convention!
#bbu2018

Monte - - Parent

Trebuchet will return. The old frame will be extended and a new stronger beam will be made.
This may even be the year when we don't manage to break it.

The Void - - Parent

That's a bold prediction!

Monte - - Parent

Did ''may'' need to be in bold capitals to convey it's meaning accurately for you? (:

The Void - - Parent

I was talking about your second sentence. ( <--- This may or may not be true. I'll tell you in May.) :-)

Monte - - Parent

PM May may ban trebuchets, by May we may know, otherwise it may be true that we may rebuild the frame and beam.

Monte -

Montegriffo's frying circus returns for BJC 2018. First time since Pickering convention. See you all there.

The Void - - Parent

Yay!

Monte - - Parent

Looks like a great castle in Canterbury too.
Anyone been to see it?

Richard Loxley - - Parent

Woo-hoo!

As I no longer own a caravan, this is the first BJC in about nine years where I'll be back in a small tent, and so will be completely reliant on the catering.

This is excellent news, and you have made my day :-)

Monte - - Parent

Aw shucks.

Sergei -

Juggling in laying down position. May be somebody practicing it and what are the benefits ? I know David Cain loves to set new records this way ))

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Sakari Mannisto did a lot of research on juggling laying down. There are a lot of arm positions possible while laying down, a lot of leg throws one can do. His enjoyment of laying down juggling inspired this scene in Clowns and Queens:

https://youtu.be/JOO1GSuydBg

Sergei -

Learning 423.
I have invented one very simple exercise for 423. Two balls in left and one in right. 1. Left hand: toss one up and another to the right hand in "tennis" mode catch bothe balls (by left and right hand) and pause, `you have two balls in right and one in left now 2. Do in opposite direction and pause. Probably someone already knows this drill and I am innvented the "bicycle" )))

Maria - - Parent

I'm not sure if "tennis mode" means outside/over-the-top throw or something else, but I think a normal cascade-style throw for the 3 is the easiest.

My favorite practice for 423 was to just do one out of a cascade. One righthanded "straight" throw, skip the lefthanded throw, a normal righthanded throw and you are back to cascade. Make sure the straight throw is high enough so that you don't have to rush anything, the right hand should keep its normal rhythm.
Then the same with the other hand. Then just reduce the number of normal cascade throws in between until you only have the one 3 in 423 left.

Sergei -

How to learn 423
Yes , there is nice youtube made by Niels and I am practicing his first preliminary exercise. The question is how to make it like flow? I am sure you all learn 423 in you juggling toddler's years and ideas what worked for you will be appreciated ))

Sergei - - Parent

I have got one insight : tempo "right,right - left,left" )))

7b_wizard - - Parent

yes, two throws to the same side .. you can sway your body left-right in that rhythm.

how to make it flow
you can do bowy throws (not columns) with the "4", thrown well fromout the inside, over the preceding "3" - then you can also circle nicely with your hands in that rhythm.

else - I find this much harder and didn't get it well - you can do the "4" as straight vertical columns and throw the "3"-s ``away´´ and through the vertical "4"-flightlines. It seems to help to do those vertical "4"-s nearer to the middle (and then have space plenty outside for the "3"-s).

Sergei - - Parent

Thanks a lot, my friend. I have got the feeling 423 is very important trick and gives an opportunity to make small nice performance combinations with 3b cascade.