Viewing all threads tagged #4.
lukeburrage - #
Is a four ball cascade possible?
https://youtu.be/aOATKVM8Cew
If you can answer this in under 20 minutes, you probably aren't thinking about it hard enough.
I enjoyed that! For me a cascade will always be a 2 handed pattern, but I accept your 3 handed variant is the closest match to a 4 ball cascade.
I have put in another 20 minutes of thought though & I've come up with a small nitpick which has led me to something that I'm struggling to visualise.
From your video the rules for a cascade are:
1. There is only one orbit to the pattern
2. All throws are made to an even rhythm
3. Each ball is thrown to the same height
4. No placements, holds, stalls, multiplexes, double bounces etc.
5. Each ball is thrown to the 'other' hand
My issue is with the phrasing of the last rule (which was one of the first rules covered in the video), which for me is not adequate. If left as is then a cascade must be juggled with exactly 2 hands, discounting your 3 handed pattern.
In a 3 hand pattern there are two 'other' hands, if the hands are labelled 1, 2 & 3 you could juggle a 'cascade' with the throwing sequence 12131213...
So to achieve true anal retentive accuracy rule 5 needs to be replaced with 2 rules:
5a. An N ball cascade must be juggled with N-1 hands
5b. An N ball cascade must be juggled with a number of hands (H) where N > H and (N % H) = 1
6. The hands must throw in a circular sequence eg 123...H123...H
If we use 5a then this limits us to non-numbers juggling, a cascade will always be a single 2-ball exchange flowing around a circle of hands like a wave.
Obviously the 5 ball cascade exists though which discounts rule 5a. 5b is the best replacement I've been able to come up with, but I'm having a very hard time visualising if it is correct. If N <= H then we are just holding N balls, if N % H = 0 then we have a fountain like pattern, if N % H > 1 then I'm not sure what we get.
Does anyone else remember a flash based siteswap simulator that appeared online ~10 years ago which could animate patterns for any number of hands that featured little one-eyed, one-handed aliens or am I just making that up?
lukeburrage - - Parent #
I don't like to consider these things "rules" or make a hard and fast list. They are features or elements of a cascade. The canonical three ball cascade can fulfill all of them, no problem. However, it's possible to miss one and the pattern still be a three ball cascade. For example, the cascade between one hand and the back of the other hand. Both manipulators are unique, but everything else is cascade enough that nobody would be able to say it isn't a cascade.
So bringing this over to four balls, it comes down to which element of the three ball cascade you are most comfortable with changing. I like the idea of not having to stick with bilateral symmetry and allowing rotational symmetry. Others are fine with hands crossing and props changing side in the pattern, but not changing hands.
I want to avoid defining "cascade" so strictly because in the end you aren't giving a word meaning, you are just describing what comes out of a set of rules. The word is just a shorthand for the rules. But then it isn't helpful for communication unless the person you are talking to already knows and agrees with that set of rules!
how about:
5. each ball is thrown to some other hand i.e. not the hand that threw it
or something better worded, but in that vein
there's no mention about orbits crossing though, is that a signature element of the cascade ?
a 55550 could meet the "rules" originally posted (unless that was covered by the "etc" in #4)
lukeburrage - - Parent #
If thrown by hand x, it must be caught by a not-x hand.
just thinking out loud ....
if the balls were bouncy enough, 2 hands and one knee (or foot or head or floor ...) gives you 3 "hands"
Mike Moore - - Parent #
By defining the floor as a hand, it would allow something that looks like (but isn't) a 5b3. I think that would be just as valid as defining an elbow/whatnot as a hand, and it still excludes the 5bb3b example.
Slightly related: 5bb3b was a great idea, I quite liked how convincing that looked.
3. Each ball is thrown to the same height should be replaced with 3b: Each ball spends an equal amount of time in the air and is thrown to the same height. Otherwise, you can reach early for catching and warp non-cascade looking patterns into Cascades. Even if 4. Included equal dwell time, it wouldn't prevent moving some balls during that time more or less than others.
Why not be rigid with the Cascade definition and change the rules of geometry instead? There are surely infinite variations in which Cascades are possible for even and odd numbers?
Did you have to overcome any instincts in order to improve?
Can you confirm or refute any of the above or give other examples?
Or else, has maybe some movement become a reflex, like the urge to instantly throw anything back up again instead of even thinking of collecting, and no matter it might collide or where it'll land?
[ #instinct ]
Little Paul - - Parent #
Instinct or habit?
When I drop any trick and have to pick things up from the floor I habitually look all around me. This comes from many years of playing with mulitiperson passing patterns 3 times a week, looking to see if its safe to stand up again.
It's been almost 15 years since I was playing with those patterns but I can't break the habit - yet every time I do it I feel as though it looks to the outside world as if I'm checking to see if anyone watched that last attempt.
I hate that feeling every time I do it, it makes me stupidly self conscious for the next run, but it's now so deeply ingrained I just can't kick it!
Good question. I think, throwing away from yourself, too far ahead, when losing control, from your face is sth you (= I) do all your (=my) juggling life. I think it's instinct to protect your eyes. A selfmade barrier when going to collect right after a flash, downright renouncing on a next throw even if it went well, but you hesitate and it collapses, would surely be a (bad) habit. My post was rather out for real instinctive, involuntary, unwilling .. erhh .. habits (lol), moves, things you do, guided by central nervous system, by the cerebellum (small old low brain part). - But distinguishing one from other could be part of the question.
Your looking around is surely an act of archaic self-defense. But nothing, you have to overcome in order to improve ;o])
This doesn't match my experience of teaching - most beginners encounter the throwing forward problem, but as a result of incorrect technique - rolling the ball off the fingers instead of popping it out of the palm. It doesn't return as they go on to learn higher numbers, which you would expect if it was an self-preservation instinct.
I never thought about why I threw balls forward when I first learned juggling, but when teaching I usually assume bad technique. I'm not very good at ball juggling though so I can't really tell what the correct technique is... I'd think that there are different ways to do it too.
I had the opposite problem when learning clubs, throwing the clubs towards me. That was certainly bad technique. There was an instinct I had to overcome there though, the instinct to lean backwards to get my face further away from the clubs. (It didn't even work, just made the throws even worse and closer to my face or head.)
Little Paul - - Parent #
Throwing balls away from you is usually because you're throwing with your fingers not with your hand.
Throwing clubs towards you is usually because you're throwing from the end of the handle, not the middle.
I think the "move your head out of the way" instinct is natural self preservation, and not really something that has to be overcome if you fix the throwing technique first.
That all sounds very plausible: you don't fulfill the whole throwing movement and release to early when in a haste --> props go forward.
Yet, I'm not fully convinced:
When doing dangerous props (massive wooden clubs; hard heavy balls), I encounter an increased tendency to keep the props away from me. Whatever happens, always throw away, or not even catch and let drop before hurting myself and by nature keeping the ground states further away. That same impression I have when doing normal props, just way not so strong.
I have also in mind Gatto's famous 9b practise run over a minute in a gym, where he trips rather back than ahead. From all I've seen, i think, tripping back rather than ahead during practise is not so frequent to be seen. So, I guess, only the masters have the precision and accuracy to control high throws going rather even slightly back than rather not to far ahead.
And it's maybe more natural to throw anything, a branch into the walnut tree, slightly forward where you can catch it again and where you see where you're stepping, instead of throwing it behind where you don't see where you step.
And I'm not sure the problem of throwing too far ahead doesn't come back whenever learning a new trick or higher prop number (I always had it for sure).
Speaking physics, a point would be: when aiming within front plane, just as many fails could reasonably go backwards as go fail ahead. That is, when not in a haste and not releasing too early, but when generally aiming bad.
Mike Moore - - Parent #
I had a problem with throwing (and walking) forward when I first started, but that wore off quickly.
I sometimes have the opposite problem as #4: sometimes I'll throw a 1 to avoid gathering two balls in one hand, even if I intend to do a multiplex. Probably because I rarely do multiplexes.
For a long time, I started 5+ balls with my palms angled inward, throwing the ball that my thumb was holding first. This wasn't really a problem with 5-8, but started to involve fast of wrist twisting with 9 ball releases. It took me about 2 months to feel just as comfortable with the standard way or releasing. That was a fix I've made in the last year.
Hey Everyone!
#LestivalVIII - The 8th Leicester Circus Festival - is back again this year, ready to kick off the summer season of one-day conventions.
Taking place just one month after this year's highly anticipated BJC, come gather together in the heart of England for a great day of circus fun!
All your usual Lestival favourites - terrific space, great café, marvellous public show with yet another compére you won't have seen before ... and still just £8 for the whole day.
Check out the event details here - https://www.jugglingedge.com/event.php?EventID=3826
If you're on Facebook, get yourself added to the event list for all the latest news - https://www.facebook.com/events/1545948065691160
Lot's of people working really hard to make this the biggest and best yet, so get it in your diary's and be there on May 2nd!
#LestivalVIII
magicalmarkwatson - - Parent #
Only 3 weeks to go until Lestival!
Don't know about you, butI'm getting BJC withdrawals already, so I can't wait for 2nd May!
Key detailsfor you to remember - Lestival VIII is taking place on Saturday 2nd May from10am til 10pm at Brockington College in Leicester. There will be workshops,games, cafe, a raffle and to round it all off a brilliant end of conventionshow - you'd be mad to miss it! Oddballs will be there selling all yourfavourite circus goodies. All this for just £8!!!
Invite your friends and helpmake this the biggest and best Lestival convention yet! https://www.facebook.com/events/1545948065691160/
magicalmarkwatson - - Parent #
Lestival! is two weeks today!
We've got some masterclass workshops lined up for you, but I want to pack the day out with all the skills you lovely lot like to share!
So who's up for spreading some knowledge?
If you'd like to put on a workshop, from the beginners to the brainmelting, let me know and we'll give you a space and a convention full of minds!
magicalmarkwatson - - Parent #
Lestival VIII is just 8 days away, so in the run up I want to give you all 8 great reasons to get out of the house and be there for an amazing day!
So, reason #8 - we have an amazing show line up for you all! We're holding back a few surprises, but I can announce that Josh Morris from Circus Uncertainty will be astounding us all. Also Eddy Bacon who recently won this year's title of British Young Juggler of the Year will be taking to the stage. And we have the delights of Mr Tom Derrick with his mixture of great skill and fantastic showmanship.
All this and much, much more lined up for a cracking evening show!
Please remember to invite all your friends to join the event page and let's make Lestival VIII the best yet!
https://www.jugglingedge.com/event.php?EventID=3826
https://www.facebook.com/events/1545948065691160
#LestivalVIII
magicalmarkwatson - - Parent #
Everyone loves a countdown!
magicalmarkwatson - - Parent #
Lestival VIII is just one week TODAY!
Reason #7 to be there with all your friends - in the afternoon, everybody will gather together in the main practice space to take part in the Games! What will you be competing in? Who will you be cheering for? Running and hosting the Games this year will be none other than Zoo Christian - a Leicester local with many year's experience and great enthusiasm for running Games sessions.
It's bound to be a highlight of the day, you'd be mad to miss it! Please remember to invite all your friends to join this event page and let's make Lestival VIII the best yet!
https://www.jugglingedge.com/event.php?EventID=3826
https://www.facebook.com/events/1545948065691160
#LestivalVIII
lukeburrage - - Parent #
Club balance endurance. That's my game.
magicalmarkwatson - - Parent #
One week today and it'll all be over! With just 6 days until Lestival VIII, reason #6 for you all to be there - once again we will be serving delicious food, refreshing beverages and tasty snacks from our wonderful Café!
Carrie Hunt and her helpful team of volunteers will be on hand to fulfil all your culinary wishes. From hot & cold drinks, to extravagant sweet treats, and of course our usual range of value-for-money baguettes made fresh to order!
We don't want you to miss a moment of the convention, and with all this provided on site you don't have to!
Please remember to invite all your friends to join this event page and let's make Lestival VIII the best yet!
https://www.jugglingedge.com/event.php?EventID=3826
https://www.facebook.com/events/1545948065691160
magicalmarkwatson - - Parent #
Just 5 days to go, folks! Reason #5 not to miss the best Lestival yet - we have a fantastic range of workshops and masterclasses lined up for you all.
Twinkle has been working hard to pull together some of the best sessions to enable everyone to learn something at this year's Lestival.
I'll be running my "Learn to Juggle 5 Balls" workshop for anyone that wants to master the 5 ball cascade.
Also, one of our show performers, Oscar Richards, will be running an exciting masterclass in contact staff! (Oops, did I just let out another one of our acts for the show. Little piece of bonus news for you there!!!)
Remember to invite all your friends to sign up on the event page, nobody should miss out!
https://www.jugglingedge.com/event.php?EventID=3826
https://www.facebook.com/events/1545948065691160
magicalmarkwatson - - Parent #
4 days to go! Reason #4 - did you know it's been 4 weeks since we were all together at the BJC in Darton? That's such a long time since the last UK convention, absolutely crazy!
Come along to Lestival and relive all your favourite BJC memories, not to mention make a lot of new ones in our wonderful venue at Brockington College.
If you weren't at the BJC this year - come hear what all the fuss was about! Better yet, bring along a few friends too, and make the most of a day full of circus mayhem...
https://www.jugglingedge.com/event.php?EventID=3826
https://www.facebook.com/events/1545948065691160
#LestivalVIII
magicalmarkwatson - - Parent #
3 days! 3 DAYS!!!!! Reason #3 not to miss this year's Lestival - I'm sure you can't have missed this, but this Saturday is part of a 3 day weekend. That means that you can come to Lestival, have an incredible day, and still have your usual 2 days off work to relax and enjoy.
Even better, your juggling fun doesn't have to stop with Saturday! Over in Loughborough on the Friday night and Sunday lunchtime is LSU Fever - the Loughborough Uni Circus Society. They are very welcoming to guests, and we'd love to see a few of you there to keep the circus fun going. They meet 7pm - 9pm on the Friday in William Morris Dance Studio, and on the Sunday 11am - 2pm in Room 1 within the Union building.
For more info please speak to Abigail Frankish and, as always, invite your friends!
magicalmarkwatson - - Parent #
2 days 'til the wonderful Lestival! Reason #2 to be there or be square - we have a fantastic line up of traders supporting us this year!
Oddballs will be there, offering a wide range of circus treats for you all! Lazy Juggler will have their usual array of games and activities - why not buy a brand new board game and spend the afternoon playing it alongside the cafe? And last but certainly not least, Gravity Outlaws will be selling goodies of all shapes and sizes!
Yet another great reason to get your butts over to Leicester this Saturday - why not bring some friends along as well? Keep your eye out on the Facebook page, lots of updates coming up...
https://www.jugglingedge.com/event.php?EventID=3826
https://www.facebook.com/events/1545948065691160
magicalmarkwatson - - Parent #
1 day to go! In just 12 hours time, we will be open for business! ACTION STATIONS EVERYONE!!!
The #1 reason you should all be at Lestival tomorrow is... It's a juggling convention! What better reason is there?
If you've missed my previous posts, let me remind you we have - amazing practice spaces, incredible workshops, delicious food and drink from our cafe, new toys to buy from our traders, games to play, raffle prizes to be won and to top it all off a brilliant show lined up to finish it off! All this for just £8 for the whole day - you'd be mad to miss it!
Get yourselves over to Leicester, doors open at 10am and there will be plenty of happy faces there to welcome you. Above all, we want each and every one of you to have the best time! And make sure to bring your friends to share in the fun!
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