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Sergei -

Juggler's tennis.
Enigma for the beginner (me). My deepest gratitude to 7b_wizard who adviced to practice Shower on incline surface. I guess not very useful for the Shower, but it works perfectly well for Tennis )) I have got the feeling of the pattern in 10 minutes using beanbags and inlined list of cardboard. Any other ideas with Tennis ?

Hermit Of Masada - - Parent

Interesting that you find shower easier than tennis. I think its harder.
You can try siteswap 423 where the 3 are reverse, its known as real tennis. But i think you might want to learn other 423 variations first. (If 423 doesnt mean anything to you, you might want to read about siteswap)

Sergei - - Parent

I guess I am practicing 423 as "W" variation and it works well for me. Currently working on various 2 in 1 to be able to do other forms of 423

7b_wizard - - Parent

Have you seen this: http://www.libraryofjuggling.com/Tricks/3balltricks/JugglersTennis.html
The 2.nd animation with the black ball shows best how it's   normal--normal--overthrow--a.s.o.   ( overthrows in a 3-beat ) and because that overthrow is higher, it makes sense to also throw \release it from higher (else it will land too late).
Lib'O'Jugg suggests to train those overthrows in a slower tact, only once in a while from normal cascade (3.rd animation).
An overthrow is not(!), and not to be confused with an usual reverse throw that flies to and lands near the middle (or: inside), but it flies over the whole pattern to the outside of catchhand.
And, hey, why not indeed use a different ball (or Paint It Black) for those overthrows!?

Sergei - - Parent

Thanks a lot for explanations. Of course, I am using different color over-throw ball to be sure I am on the right track. I guess I have to work more on the incline cardboard to be sure my hands do the pattern without thinking. Tennis is pretty funny and nice looking trick. What a pity I began learning juggling at so old age (( I expect it will takes me twice more time to master simple routines (Cascade, RC, HS and Tennis)

7b_wizard - - Parent

twice more time .. don't underestimate, how understanding what goes on, and the flexibility of a lot of general experience and wisdom, will hopefully keep you from waisting a lot of practise time on inefficient practise ( I'm only about ten years younger and - too stubborn on 7b - still doing that wrong lol )

Sergei - - Parent

Probably I am not seriously motivated for Juggling and don't see very attractive goals. Surely I don't want to become a "great juggler" )) In my twenties I was pretty good in weight-lifting, in my forties I have got 4 DAN (grade) black belt in Shotokan karate , in my sixties I have got International Chess Master Dyploma (FIDE) in blitz chess online. It surely were very tasty goals ))) I guess I am doing "recreational juggling" and it is very useful activity for total body coordination. Some psychological rewards in form of small achievements as "I was able to do 11 catches in Shower". At this moment I am practising 2-in-1 practice and it is great to feel my clumsy hands slowly getting more and more dexterity. Probably good "recretaional juggler" (up to the Box) will be reasonable goal for me ))

Maria - - Parent

When I started juggling (at age 30), my main goals were "become good enough to impress friends and family", "juggle torches" and "learn club passing". I don't know how impressed my friends and family are (they are kind of used to me juggling by now), but I can juggle torches a little bit and I do club passing twice a week.

Now my main goal is to become a good club passer. Actually... The main goal is to have fun with friends, but for me, that involves doing lots of club passing. So I want to be a good club passer to be able to participate in all kinds of crazy passing patterns. :)

Other goals are to learn 5 balls, then 5 clubs, and doing more partner juggling/passing with the two colleagues that sometimes juggle with me at the lunch breaks.

Sergei - - Parent

Doing torches at night ... really impressive

Hermit Of Masada -

Hi guys, promised you more questions, so here they are! Ive been having some thoughts about the subject of fitness for jugglers.
What fitness exercises you find are the most valuable for jugglers?
Cardio makes you sharper and more energized, so thats an obvious choice.
When i juggle clubs for a long time i can feel the strain on my forearms (maybe im using to much wrist?) And its obvious to me that 5 ball endurance takes some muscle.
What do you guys think? Is fitness even that relevant, or is juggling itself the best exercise to develop the abilities needed? What do you do to keep in shape?

Sergei - - Parent

to my humble opinion, most jugglers are pretty weak guys. I reasonably doubt they can bench-press more than own weight. So my recommendations will be to have some upper-body muscles, especially pectoralis major and triceps. Bar-dips will be ideal. Reasonable standard 20 reps for guys under 50 y/o and 10 reps for grand-pa over 60 )))

7b_wizard - - Parent

Juggling is not a force act, I believe. ( "We're not juggling cannonballs, right." )
Getting the rhythm snapped-in to the point, aiming and precision, agility, speediness, speedy thinking, handspeed, wristyness are crucial.
At least for for upto 5-6-7 balls, clubs dunno, guess ~5c.
There is though, a phase when you're not mastering a challenging pattern yet, where you're liable to do tensed, to fight to even keep it up and going, .. there then, having a bit of muscle power will keep you from wearing off soon in long sessions. But that's not the clue in the first place to getting better, to seizing a patterns rhythm and ratioes well and to optimizing your movements along pattern's needs, along a perfect comfortable, nimble, smooth pattern.

In that sense, I totter and limber up, stretch, do arm-circles and -twists an' stuff to prevent soreness. My concession to strength is doing 200g balls a bit for warmup, and I think, it serves me well for 7b cascade (and 9b flashing).

( "Working out on big muscles only makes your arms heavier!" :p )

Hermit Of Masada - - Parent

Juggling sure isn't a force act, but it is all about endurance. What ive learned from watching 5b andurance comoetitions is that you use less streght when you have proper technique, but when you get tired your technique becomes worse and worse and you have to compensate more using muscle, which gets you even more tired and so on. It shows in ofek snir 5b record, i believe.
It goes double for clubs. 30 minutes into a club session there is no way i can get more than a flash of 4 clubs. Surely if i had better technique it wouldn't have to be so hard.
Also some muscle tone is needed to prevent and minimize injuries.
Its evident that a juggler doesn't (or even should'nt) have to be a bodybuilder to be a great juggler, but technique can only take you so far to my understanding. Same goes for strength of course.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Yes, endurance is a point where you get into doing tensed after a while and where it's good to not have to give in to a lack of muscle power.
But I made the experience - when doing 5b endurance (for minutes only, not hours like Ofek) - that finding back into perfect swift smooth pattern will indeed find back into a relaxed pattern  ( sometimes all of a sudden, when snapping-in again out of nowhere )  that will keep on going much longer with muscles then relaxing again, as opposed to fighting yourself through such bad phases with primarily muscle power that you will soon or late have to give in to. So, to me, that's my credo, my approach to it all, the perfectly mastered pattern is the clue, and doing with muscle power only the bad but sometimes unavoidable way when the pattern is going astray, then testifying that I'm doing something wrong. It should at its best be like walking, I believe, not like powering oneself through it with more effort than absolutely necessary.

Guili - - Parent

in my opinion is really helpfull to be a little in shape. i mean, i don't go out to run, but i do stretch like 10 minutes everyday i juggle. it's important to loosen up every muscle and joint. legs, back, neck, wrists, elbows.
also as i do have kinda weak tendons, i try to reinforce them with a little of weight lifting.
every other day, after stretching, i make 10 reps of 4 different movementes. it doesn't tire me. gives me muscle, and i also take the chance to use it to stretch a little.

Sergei - - Parent

My point is that juggling mostly involves biceps, deltoids and wrist flexing muscles. Opposite important muscles are not working. Exercises for one group of muscles without working on opposites leads to negative effects in spinal motor roots. I greatly enjoy juggling lying down on my coach )) Watch David Cain setting world records in this position )) Doing bar-dips 20 reps is just minimum fitness standard. "Heavy arms" require 20 reps with at least 100 - 200 lb additional weight. It doesn't make one SLOW, watch shot-put and disc throw competiotions ))

Guili - - Parent

sorry, i don't understand what you're saying, i'm not that much into fitness.
I just use a 3kg. weight to keep my arms strog, and they didn't get any slower by this.

Maria - - Parent

I believe that I would be able to juggle 4 clubs a bit longer if I was stronger. My arms usually get tired after about 100 catches.

I don't do enough to keep in shape, and nothing that is specifically for juggling, barely a minimum to keep healthy.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Yes, I believe fitness is relevant. I can easily tell the difference between when I'm fairly fit and when I've spent some time off fitness by how I feel with my juggling. I am also FAR more prone to injury if I'm not particularly fit.

I was the fittest I ever had been when I went to my first IJA and stayed high-energy through the entire fest. IJA 2013...not so much. Had to pace myself, couldn't do hard stuff all the time, it was rough.

Hermit Of Masada -

hello everyone! my name is Yonatan, and i have to admit i have already had a thread here a couple of years back about 5 ball training. I'm ashamed to admit though that the reason I'm posting now is the exact same... i took a really really long break from juggling due to leukemia (all fine now! got me some new bone marrow and I'm three years healthy) and a friend of mine who just got back from the ijc convinced me to get back into it, which I'm super excited about.
since my return to juggling a few things bothered my over analytical database-oriented brain. the first thing was that i don't know how people train. so first question, and this is fairly subjective so i know you gonna have more than a few opinions on this (though I'll be glad to know if any of you have a study on the subject):
what do you find the most efficient way for you to train? working for one specific goal the whole session (trying to get this one trick down)? getting all over the place (working your 5 balls for some time, getting tired and changing it up with some 3 ball body throws or even setting the balls aside for a bit and picking up the diabolo)? or working on similar but different tricks (4 ball shower and 5 balls both have hard tall throws, so lets do both)?
I have a notebook i keep my juggling thoughts in, so i might lay a few more on you the next time i get a chance ;).
P.S
been training 5 balls using Thom Wall's guide.. wanted to get your input on it (i can get ~25 throws of right 5551, qualified left 5551, get a flash of 5551 in my fountain and semi-consistent flash 5)

Mike Moore - - Parent

Welcome back and I'm happy to hear you're healthy!

I have a few "focus patterns" that I make sure I put some time into every session. Depending on where I am in those patterns and how things are going on that day, the amount of time for each varies from 3-~15 minutes. Then I have some secondary patterns/pattern families that I try to chip away at when I remember.

My warm up tends to be a "whatever I feel like for a little", sometimes with a focus on a certain type of movement (e.g. left-handed dots, body throw combos, etc.). When warming up for numbers, I try to incorporate patterns that are below my skill level, but unpracticed, so that I have to do lots of corrections. Corrections warm up the body very quickly!

I practically only train with balls. I don't have enough time or skill to make meaningful contributions to juggling with a diversity of props. I do play with other props some, but mostly socially and not too seriously.

Thom Wall's guide + sweat + time = 5b cascade :)

Hermit Of Masada - - Parent

hi man! thanks! what do you mean you do corrections? how do you purposely get in a situation you need to correct?

Mike Moore - - Parent

I find that patterns that are unpracticed but below my general technical skill result in having to do many corrections while keeping the pattern alive. The ones I enjoy right now are some flashes of siteswaps out of a 5b reverse cascade. Balls go everywhere, but because I have a pretty solid 5b and those siteswaps are pretty easy for my in a normal cascade, I can wrangle everything back in and repeat.

And if all else fails, I listen to Chandelier by Sia. I can't help but move a bunch after seeing that amazing music video way too many times.

Orinoco - - Parent

Maddie Ziegler is awesome!!!

Mike Moore - - Parent

Yeah, downright mindblowing. There are times when I see/hear something that makes me realize I had no idea how good at certain things people are. Sort of like an abrupt mental re-benchmarking Some examples:

William Lin's BJC performance way back
Maddie Ziegler's Chandelier video
When a competitive classical singer that I was teaching chemistry to sang (!!!)
Occasional research papers (the Nobel Prize one on neutrino oscillations where they had to filter out the radioactivity from THE WIRES IN THEIR ELECTRONICS comes to mind, as well as some of the framework-development ones in educational research).

Do you (or anyone else) remember those types of moments? What are some that come to mind?

The Void - - Parent

The Picture Of Dorian Grey and Vanity Fair.

Mike Moore - - Parent

I'll have to move those up the reading list a bit. Thanks for the recommendations.

Have you read Thinking Fast and Slow? I'm only partially finished it but am enjoying it an awful lot! Go figure: a book that explains part of how your thought patterns work is good at influencing your thought patterns.

Orinoco - - Parent

oooh, good question... ones that immediately spring to mind.

Lars Andersen - archery

Jane Zhang doing the Diva song from the Fifth Element live with no synthesizer assistance.

https://youtu.be/kJl2uPNsJEk

Adam Winrich - whip cracking

https://youtu.be/Wzd34P5uTtU

Sean DeBurca - fingerstyle guitar, I first saw Sean perform live in Tunbridge Wells when he was I think 17 years old, I had never heard fingerstyle before.

https://youtu.be/8d_1m_hyYEM

Veronika Petrova, Inna Lymar, & Yuriy Danilchenko - skipping

https://youtu.be/UdLt70d-4kQ

Mike Moore - - Parent

Sometimes when I see something that SHOULD reframe how I see a discipline, I can feel myself rationalizing that I had obviously thought of that before, or that "of course it should be at this level". It's kind of hard to explain, but that's how I felt when I first saw Lars's archery video (and how I used to see Dave Kelly's and Chris Hodge's videos). Almost like they're doing something categorically different, and the stuff they're doing CAN'T be similar to what I've seen before.

That whip cracking video was something else!

I don't know why, but I've randomly encountered so many VERY good skippers. In high school I saw a professional skipper perform in a talent show. At Turbofest in the first few years I went (2010-~2012?) there was a really amazing skipper. In Japan, while walking the streets randomly, I came across this:

https://youtu.be/mFjU2y_CVU0

It's funny how things happen.

And the middle section of that Raw Art video was very cool!

Orinoco - - Parent

Congratulations on the health front! Facing leukemia is a far more impressive trick than a 5 ball cascade so this should be easy for you!

Don't focus too much on 5 ball like patterns. Getting a good start when you launch the pattern is really important, & launching 2 balls from one hand is different to launching 3 so make sure you practice that part.

Also try to practice a little bit more than a flash as soon as possible, even if it is just 1 more throw. With a flash it is fairly easy to compensate for errors in rhythm, during the running pattern, not so much.

If you like data & analysis ty keeping a practice log, it can draw graphs for you & everything!

Maria - - Parent

Wrong address in the "log" link, it doesn't work. :)

Orinoco - - Parent

I should know that by now!

Hermit Of Masada - - Parent

Thanks man! valuable input. so you say i should stick to the flashes to learn launching 5 balls?
the practice log was a major reason to come back here, though i never used it before :P

Orinoco - - Parent

I think so.

I don't think it is worthwhile breaking down base patterns (3, 5, 7 ball cascade etc) too much. The best practice for a 5 ball cascade is a 5 ball cascade. Breaking things into components only makes sense to me for combination tricks involving different skills, & for more complex patterns where you need to do different types of throw.

In a cascade every ball does the same thing, for 5+ balls the important points are rhythm, accuracy & speed. If you take out a ball for 55550 it is still possible to do the pattern without the correct timing which allows bad habits to develop.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Hi Hermit,

for 5 ball cascade, I warmly recommend this: http://juggling.tv/16767 with 3 balls, the idea being: if you can't do it with 3 balls, how can you expect to get it with five?! And it will be necessary to keep a 5 ball cascade up and to get it stable, that one has at least somewhat of control on most of those dimensions shown in the vid, especially 5b speed (and handspeed) and 5b height (and precision \accuracy \aiming well there), but also for correcting or for working against any drifts, twists, furthermore for controlling the front plane, then for finding your most comfortable and efficient posture, so far for what I can think of.
It's pure cascade training; this approach skips any 4b exercises, but as you seem to be getting along well with the fountain and siteswaps, all this is maybe just a minor alternative. Yet, checking it out at least briefly might find the one or other exercise that could be a precious clue for improving on 5b.

( I'm afraid my practise, though structured mostly after priorities, that i stubbornly work on, a huge ``plight´´-part, "good-fors" and only a small ``leisure´´-part, .. afraid, my practise isn't as efficient as should, so I'd rather not extend on it. )

cheers & happy juggling

Hermit Of Masada - - Parent

Thanks man! thats a lot of material! I always check my posture when juggling, but having a check list like this might be beneficial.

Stephen Meschke -

Juggling Club Drop Simulation

Using this Pygame tutorial, I created a club drop simulation. In the simulation, I successfully dropped and balanced a club several times:

(1) https://imgur.com/a/akWywIS
(2) https://imgur.com/a/7nW4C44
(3) https://imgur.com/a/ddeR2YP


There are an infinite amount of ways to drop a club and have it bounce back up and balance on it's end. A club is most likely to bounce back up into a balance if it has enough energy to rotate backwards (1) 180° or forwards 180° (2).

Guili - - Parent

cool!
any chance of actually doing it?
would look really good!

peterbone - - Parent

Here's one recent example.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BiHWQunAXAx

Guili - - Parent

wow! that's awesome!
haha, not on purpose anyway.. haha but it counts

Maria - - Parent

It happened to me once, too. Dropped while juggling 4 clubs, reached for a club that bounced but noticed that it was almost standing still on the end, waited and it stayed there. I have no proof, though, I was the only one who saw it.

Guili - - Parent

so.. it's doable... I mean, it can be trained.. right?
would look soooo good to do it while juggling

Maria - - Parent

I don't know, I have never heard of anyone being able to do it on purpose. I mean, with a reasonable success rate. I have heard of people trying for hours without getting it though... On the other hand, it might be that nobody actually tried to learn it. Maybe Stephen's simulations says something about how well mathched the clubs speed, rotation and angle while hitting the floor has to be for it to work. My guess would be that it's too many parameters that has to be just right. Also, what kind of floor you are standing on might affect the bounce...

peterbone - - Parent

I've seen people at the BJC sitting in a circle trying to bounce the club into a balance on the floor. At least some of them got it. I've seen at least one video, but can't find it now.

The Void - - Parent

How about during a performance?
http://juggling.tv/6228

Little Paul - - Parent

*squints*

Blimey, internet video has come a long way in the last 10 years

Guili - - Parent

precisely my point!
once I saw a documentary about varietes in the US in the 50's. it showed this guy, a "hat, kane & cigar juggler" (don't know any better way to put it) he said that everything is trainable. and he actually got a number where he threw a matchbox, with a match and a cigar on it, from his foot, in the air the match lights itself against the box, and he catches the cigar in his mouth and the match falls on balance on the tip of the cigar, and then he actually lights up the cigar and smokes!!
so... yeah.. with enough time to spend, you can probably get an acceptable succes rate, but... how's the balance between the hours of practice and the reward? (says the guy who's been obsessing with the 7 balls for the past 3 months... :) )

Terix -

When logging your training, do you subtract some time (for example when props fall down and you have to lift them up, when you change song at what you are juggling etc.)? :)
I usually have better feeling when I subtract it - usually seconds, but sometimes these are minutes of training :D

Maria - - Parent

No, I count picking up props as practise time. It would be impossible to keep track without actually using a stop watch or something like that otherwise, I drop a lot. Short, necessary breaks (like drinking water) are not subtracted either. Longer breaks (like, taking 5 minutes to discuss what passing pattern to do next) is usually subtracted. In general if I have 2h practise time I might log it as 100-110 minutes depending on how much time I feel like I spent talking or doing something else that is not juggling. I don't actually look on the clock every time I stop juggling.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Pretty much same here.
I log "on spot", "unidle" practise time including picking up drops, including tottering and limbering up a few seconds, excluding notable breaks doing sth else like for over a minute or minutes accumulated. Currently I'm estimating outdoor stint durations and practise minus driving time minus breaks, as I'm out without a watch.

Maria -

Swedish Juggling Convention 2018!

Well, JugglingEdge asked what it was like for me, so here we go...

Me and the Swedish Juggling Convention:
This was my 6th time going to the SJC, every year since 2013, and the second time it was held in Tranemo.

The venue:
Tranemo is a small town, and a little bit cumbersome to get to if you are not driving. At least 3 buses from the closest airport, or two buses from a somewhat large train station, or one bus from a small train station.

Other than that, the venue is great!
In the same building, there is:
Gym 1, 24h juggling space
Gym 2, extra juggling space during the day, sleeping hall during the night.
Small dining area
Small kitchen (mostly used by organisers for breakfast, coffee and tea for the participants)
Plenty of (hot) showers and toilets
Saunas
...even a swimming pool, that was open for the jugglers during a few hours on one of the days.

The show was held in an adjacent building, and there is a grocery store right across the street.

While the sleeping hall was a bit cold the first night, it got better for the second and third... At least I think so, I was wearing some extra clothes for those nights though. My sleeping bag is for summer camping, I'm sure it was not an issue for anyone with a warmer sleeping bag.

The jugglers:
About 45 people participated in the convention this year. Many of them were the Swedish jugglers that I am used to meeting at SJC, but there were also some new faces. As usual, all of them really nice people, and I didn't feel the slightest bit worried about leaving wallet and phone in the gym when going to eat in the dining area.

Food:
Included in the ticket price was simple breakfast (corn flakes with milk/yoghurt/vegan options, sandwiches with ham/cheese/hummus, orange juice, coffee, tea),
and a hot meal a day! (Choice between "meat" or "vegan" meal.) The food was good, but the best thing about food included in the ticket, in my opinion, is that everyone eats together. A good opportunity to chat with someone you don't know yet!

The show:
The gala show was held in a school building next to the gym. The performers were good, but there were too many "slow" acts. I got a bit bored, actually. I did enjoy the last acts, though, a ring act by Filip Zahradnický and a somewhat more "traditional" circus juggling act by Lauri Koskinen.
All five acts were solo acts. Some kind of duo or group act would have been nice.

Workshops:
There were workshops. I'm not that good at attending workshops if they are not about club passing... But I went to Speed Passing (of course), "Juggling technique" (with Lauri Koskinen) and part of the "Add movement to your juggling". I also tried a few throws from the ring juggling workshop.

The Club Passing:
Well, here is my main reason for going to juggling conventions! Most of the jugglers participated in the Speed Passing, which was great, but we didn't have enough time to actually let everyone pass with each other.
I passed a lot with O (often with 1-3 more jugglers), with V and with S. Mostly patterns that I have done before (if you want to know which ones they are in my log). I also passed a little bit with beginners.

The Games:
Pretty much the usual games. I participated in "Simon Says", "Jugglers Long Jump", "Gandini Crown Gladiators" and "Combat", but without any chance of winning any of them. No club passing, unfortunately.

Open stage/Renegade:
A combined Open Stage and Renegade was held in the main gym on the last evening. The open stage acts were nice. The renegade was OK but a bit too long, in the end it was just the same people coming up on stage over and over again to show a new trick. Nice tricks for sure, but after spending part of the afternoon watching games I wanted to juggle. It felt a little bit rude to walk away when most people stayed to watch, but eventually me and S did that anyway, and took our clubs to the second gym for some passing. S was only there over the day and had also spent time watching games, so we were happy when the renegade ended so we could find some more passers. Not that I don't enjoy 2-people passing with S, but we pass together every week anyway.

Other:
Great organising team that wants to keep organising the Swedish Juggling Convention, in the same place, for at least a few years. We are hoping for the convention to grow! Thank you!

A bit surprised that I didn't see anyone playing board games this year. There are usually at least a few people doing that in the evenings. I think most people spent the late evenings either juggling or in the sauna.

Great jugglers doing awesome tricks! Happy that a few of them also posted videos on Facebook after the convention.

Sometimes when people do awesome tricks I can't help feeling a little bit like it's useless for me to juggle, I'll never be close to their level anyway... At other times, it is inspiring and I just want to juggle more. Well. At least it is fun, and I think I am a decent club passer by now, though not a very good solo juggler.

#SJC2018 #ConventionReview

david - - Parent

Great review. You had me at sauna and the food included sounds good too. Please alert the Edge about next years registration, even though it's not too likely I'll be able to get there.

Maria - - Parent

Thank you!

Yes, sauna is very nice after a day of juggling.

Sure, I'll let the Edge know, if the organisers don't. :) The convention is always during Easter, so usually it's possible to combine it with BJC (I did that last year).

Real_Ego_87 -

Hello. I am normally not that extremely creative a guy, but last night I appear to have stumbled randomly into your beautiful webforum in a moment of temporary sleep deprivation hysteria. I read part of one thread and quite enjoyed it. You really have an interesting culture here. As it turns out that thread was a couple of years old, which I failed to notice at the time. Therefore the comment I had planned to post there is slightly too irrelevant for my taste especially since I am unfamiliar with the rules here. Instead I will post this short introduction of myself, assuming this is an appropriate place for it. I am a 30 year old hobby musician with far too much time to spare. A small portion of that time I have come to spend juggling, over the last few years. Actually I tried it one summer, learned to juggle three tennis balls in a ridiculous fashion, and then gave up. Then I came back years later, just in the last couple of months.

The reason for my giving up was, in case anyone is interested, that I did not realize you could not juggle 4 balls crossing in a continuous and regular cascade, very little of which terminology I had at that time, and so in confusion and frustration I lost interest.

I have since learned that it is possible to juggle a 4 ball cascade in a 5 ball pattern, which is what I've been doing lately. Upon reading a thread from this forum, from which I learned nothing immediately useful that I can point to, but which I found inexplicably inspiring just in its personality, I went immediately to juggle in the small hours, and performed multiple 4 ball crossing cascade flashes in a row, having only been able to do at most one in a row until that point. For this moment of focus and the joy it caused me I thank you all in excessive formality, and please have a nice day.

Maria - - Parent

Welcome to the Edge, and may your juggling bring you many more moments of joy!

I also learned to juggle 3 balls many years ago, then gave up, in my case trying to learn 3 clubs. Seven years ago I picked it up again. I went to my first juggling convention a few months later and have been hooked since then. The juggling community is a very important part of the hobby for me, so I am happy that you found us here and hope that you will find your way to a juggling convention soon.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Nice post, thanks for sharing your juggling story! I did not realize you could not juggle 4 balls crossing in a continuous and regular cascade .. yeah, that happened to me too, didn't notice that gap that necessarily will appear then, while it's obvious when you divide balls by hands that handle them (which in turn doesn't make sense for uneven ball numbers 3 balls/2 hands = 1.5, then what). Adding a fifth ball then actually made it easier.

Guess, you did 3 balls to music in a beat? There's some rhythm & music to be found in juggling if one wants to look at it that way.

cheers so far, and, yeah, like Maria: more moments of joy! :o)

Mike Moore - - Parent

Wonderful introduction, happy to have you here. I think you'll find the rules here far fewer than expected, with the culture guiding matters far more.

Real_Ego_87 - - Parent

Thanks for your welcomes. I think I will lurk for a while.

Guili - - Parent

hi there! welcome to the egde!
just like you, i had some troubles and doubts in my begginings. i guess that's just part of being self-taught...
In this forum I found the source of knowledge and encouragement i was looking for since i first started juggling.
any doubts, just ask. the guys, and gals, of the edge will help.

also, i suggest you start writing down your practice sessions in the LOG, it's so usefull and motivating!

(too much of a saler's speach? what can i tell..? i just love this site! ;) )

Sergei -

What does it mean "flash" and "qualify" in case of 4 balls sync collumns. I know that in case of 3 b cascade it is 3 and 6 catches. How to count in case of 4 b collumns as each catching act consist of TWO balls ?

Guili - - Parent

hello sergei. according to wikipedia a flash is a form of numbers juggling where each ball is only thrown and caught once
so each hand will toss both balls, catch them and that's it :)
here an animated gif made by my great friend "palito" (sticky in english)

https://www.facebook.com/guili.pesoa/videos/10156156813329594/

Sergei - - Parent

Sorry, this link is not working for me. May be I need some "sesame" word ))

Sergei - - Parent

I have visited your page and saw your juggling balls ))

Guili - - Parent

hi sergei! too bad.. it was just an animated gif made in jugglinglab, you know it?
it's a juggling emulator. shows you any pattern. it's really usefull.

Sergei - - Parent

Thanks, I have got it correctly, but it is the TRICK "flash"/ I mean different issue

Guili - - Parent

try now, i think it was not in "public" post

Guili - - Parent

or it is a juggling trick where every prop is simultaneously in the air and both hands are empty
like this:

https://www.facebook.com/guili.pesoa/videos/10156156903389594/

Maria - - Parent

What you call one "catching act" is still 2 catches.

So a flash, 4 catches, so each ball has ben thrown and caught once, even if you do two balls at a time (like in sync patterns).

A qualify for 4 balls is 8 catches, each ball thrown and caught twice.

Guili - - Parent

ah, so when you're juggling sync patterns, a flash is like that?
(didn't get we were talking about sync patterns before)

Sergei - - Parent

Thanks, Maria, I got the point. At least I can flash 4 balls column. Two simultaneous throws and two catches of 2 balls. I warms my ambitions that I can juggle 4 balls in this humble pattern )) Next step is to qualify this pattern ))

Sergei - - Parent

As I understand you live in Sweden where my sister lives for more than 20 years (Uppsala)

Maria - - Parent

Yes, I live in Sweden, not too far away from Uppsala either. I juggle in Stockholm, though.

7b_wizard -

Do you juggle more than you walk?

  1. Yes.
  2. No.
  3. Not sure.

This is a competition thread which ran from 17th Feb 2018 to 25th Feb 2018. View results.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Kneejerk reaction: of course not!

But now that I'm thinking about it...I'm not so sure. If we exclude walks under a couple minutes, then it's very close.

Maria - - Parent

Same... If I count every step as walking, I definitely walk more than I juggle (especially since it is not uncommon to walk while juggling, too).

If I only count outdoor walking it might actually be less than the juggling, even though I walk to work every day. Or maybe about the same amount of time.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Yes - meant walking several steps at least, so also walking around to pick up dropped balls, just as much as walking out of the house anyway. But not tripping single steps to correct one's positon while juggling, and also not taking one-two steps towards a dropped ball to pick it up while already bending down, but just really normally walking upright.

Basically, if one sits or drives a lot and doesn't usually need to walk a lot, AND-OR gets long runs a lot while juggling, not walking around a lot while practising, but rather mostly standing, then there's a great chance that they'd juggle more than they walk.

Maria - - Parent

Does walking while juggling count as both walking and juggling? (For example passing patterns where you are walking... I do those a lot.)

Does walking from the kitchen to the livingroom count, or only walking more than a few steps?

7b_wizard - - Parent

[see answer & distinction two posts above] .. I don't know what made me have that thought, but it struck me that I am actually juggling way more than I walk. Why "walk"? .. well, it's sooo genuinely normal, we think we do it always and forever and it's so omnipresent, it's part of our definition as upright walking humans. Yeah .. wrong! - we don't do it as much as we think .. we have cars, bikes, trams, planes, trains, busses; we have professions and desks where we sit; and for many people, jogging, walking, taking a walk, wandering is an activity that they (have to) take extra time for. Walking is not ``always there´´ as one might easily first think.

So, one juggler might indeed be juggling (notably) more time than doing what seems granted fro a member of the human upright walking species.

( It's a bit analogue to the insight that modern (over)civilized humans don't walk anymore as much as they used to and not walk as much anymore as what they were ``originally meant for´´, but have cars and sit a lot now, instead. Just that now for juggling, and if it's true for you. )

Guili - - Parent

if we take walking as an activity, not just moving yourself through the house, like maria said, then I definetively juggle a LOT more than i walk...

7b_wizard - - Parent

Any walking counts as "human upright walk", no matter where, while what (even while juggling). Just "time walked" versus "time juggled without walking". One-two steps don't count as really "walking upright" (and it's seconds only anyway), but time of indeed really (clearly) "walking while juggling" counts as +-0, and "walking through the house" is "walking" through the house and counts as such. - Anyway - if one's answer should depend on such distinctions and it's not clear, then please choose "3. Not sure." (unclear, not definitely or positively rather "yes", not definitely or with clear tendency towards rather "no")

Little Paul - - Parent

According to fatbit I walk more than 15k steps every day (which is around 10Km apparently)

There’s no way I juggle that much!

Marvin - - Parent

This competition has now ended with 12 votes cast. The results are:

  1.   Yes. (4 votes)
  2.   No. (7 votes)
  3.   Not sure. (1 vote)

7b_wizard - - Parent

Oh wow, .. didn't expect that many "yes". But then again, all you need to not walk a lot, is simply to use the bike a lot for example, or to not move a lot at all lol except when juggling.

Sergei -

Learning 423.
I have invented one very simple exercise for 423. Two balls in left and one in right. 1. Left hand: toss one up and another to the right hand in "tennis" mode catch bothe balls (by left and right hand) and pause, `you have two balls in right and one in left now 2. Do in opposite direction and pause. Probably someone already knows this drill and I am innvented the "bicycle" )))

Maria - - Parent

I'm not sure if "tennis mode" means outside/over-the-top throw or something else, but I think a normal cascade-style throw for the 3 is the easiest.

My favorite practice for 423 was to just do one out of a cascade. One righthanded "straight" throw, skip the lefthanded throw, a normal righthanded throw and you are back to cascade. Make sure the straight throw is high enough so that you don't have to rush anything, the right hand should keep its normal rhythm.
Then the same with the other hand. Then just reduce the number of normal cascade throws in between until you only have the one 3 in 423 left.

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