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AnnaBod -

BJC survey

Hi all,

I've put together a survey aimed at people who attended BJC this year. Please fill in if you have a chance.

This is to help future organising teams convince towns and venues that we are a worthwhile event - one of the ways of doing that is by showing we spend money in the local area! Your answers will also help future teams to improve BJC, and help work out what is worth spending money on.


https://goo.gl/forms/q86tF4GI6Yafj14C3


Already really interesting data coming out of it. Rough calculations so far (scaling up the respondees total spend on attractions and accommodation to the number of over 18 attendees) indicate that this year's BJC was worth at least £25.5k to the local area. That is a good number to present to local councils/tourism boards etc.

Orinoco - - Parent

Done.

Is there a deadline for responses? Will we get to see the results.

AnnaBod - - Parent

I am enjoying the comments section of the form very much. Whoever it was that completed it most recently is my favourite comment so far ;-)

So I'm planning on a couple of reports... one very much aimed at local councils and tourism bureaus with the spending jugglers do and local impact we have, and the other for BJC orgs about what people want and don't want from a BJC.

The most sensible place to put these is the BJC wiki, so that's where they'll go.

AnnaBod - - Parent

Deadline... a couple of days? I need to write up before this baby arrives, which is anytime from now!

furlisht - - Parent

Done! For the question "will you come next year", you could add an option to specify "No because of EJC". I myself would come back in 2020 because there is no EJC there!

Mïark - - Parent

It cannot be guaranteed there won't be an EJC in the UK in 2020, the vote to decide where EJC 2020 hasn't taken place yet.

Mïark - - Parent

>>>> where EJC 2020 = where EJC 2020 will be,

furlisht - - Parent

Indeed you are right! We'll see ;-)

AnnaBod - - Parent

Closing this at the end of this evening, so fill in if you can :-)

Monte -

Is the BJC dying a slow death?
I've not been for a few years so I was quite surprised to hear how few are expected to attend this year. Fewer than half the amount of people that used to go about 10 years ago.
Is this a sign of a fall in the numbers of young jugglers taking up the hobby or are there just more events dividing up the pool of likely attendees?

The Void - - Parent

BJC numbers are always down when it's in a "far corner" of the UK. Of course, we're well down from the early 90s heyday, but that's been true for years.

The Void - - Parent

The last 2 with figures for attendance on https://thebritishjugglingconvention.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=BJC_History (both in Darton) are over 900. That's pretty good. I'm sure Perth will have been well down on that, and I guess it makes sense for Canterbury to budget on a low figure too. We'll see how it goes, I guess....

Monte - - Parent

I wouldn't have called Kent a far flung corner. Not compared with Yorkshire. I suppose I'd need to know more about the concentration of jugglers around the country but I would have assumed London and Bristol to be hotspots.
Anyway I hope you're right because 500 seems a small number to me.

The Void - - Parent

Where are you getting 500 from? *If* it's their budgeting figure, that's presumably a worst case scenario, and therefore it wouldn't be unreasonable to *hope for* 600-700. Dunno, I'm guessing...

Monte - - Parent

From the horse's mouth. Budgeting figure is even lower.
Good to know the last couple were around 900. That's a good number.
When people are deciding between BJC or Catch it can't be a good thing.
There has to be a number where it is no longer viable in its current form.
Mind you, under 500 and we could do it at Hulver farm
British Balls Up anyone?

The Void - - Parent

There are no numbers on that site for attendance for the last 2 (anyone know?). 900s were 2014 & 2015.
Well, here's hoping...

Cedric Lackpot - - Parent

> When people are deciding between BJC or Catch it can't be a good thing.

Why not? I see that it's a risky situation, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong. It seems to me that the BJC does not have a right to be pre-eminent, it needs to earn that status.

Monte - - Parent

I meant it can't be a good thing for the BJC. It might well be a good thing for juggling.
It already seems quite hard to get people to commit to running one, if numbers decline who's going to take the risk of making a big loss?
Maybe both can be successful?

Anyway, come to BJC and eat at Montegriffo's.....

Richard Loxley - - Parent

I wouldn't have called Kent a far flung corner. Not compared with Yorkshire

Spoken like a southerner ;-)

I'm currently a southerner, living in Bristol. But I'd still rather travel to Yorkshire rather than Kent! There's this annoying thing called London in the way, which adds stress and considerable time, whatever method of transport you use.

I will make the effort anyway, because I want to go to the BJC. But I can see why anyone in the Midlands or above would think twice.

Monte - - Parent

Southerner? Norwich is further North than Birmingham.

Mïark - - Parent

Canterbury is more than twice as far from the centre of the UK population as Darton is.

Monte - - Parent

Where's the centre of the UK population?
About one in seven live in London, must be getting on for a third of the population are South of Watford.

The Void - - Parent

From a comment on an Ordnance Survey page: "Yes, one of our Twitter followers suggested this too. It’s not something we’ve worked out ourselves, but @MurrayData says that using a population weighted approach centre of GB is approximately 433924E 309573N (Measham Rd Swadlincote Leics.)"

The Void - - Parent

Click the pic link in the tweet:
@JugglingEdge Pic for Monte: pic.twitter.com/Bitwm1Fb67
— The Void ザ・ヴォイド (@TheVoidTLMB) March 10, 2018

Cedric Lackpot - - Parent

Yeah, erm, Swadlincote's in Derbys not Leics - only just, but Derbys nevertheless. Not a good start, although if I had to guess the GB population centre I'd probably go for somewhere not too far from Swad.

Also, Swad is mostly an unmitigated shithole, but then that probably makes it a good representative of some sort of median of the British population. I have worked a lot in Swad.

These Swad facts brought to you by Cedric Lackpot, who has nothing of value to add to this thread, but knows a damn thing or two about Swadlincote!

Mike Moore - - Parent

I'd like to subscribe to Swad facts by Cedric Lackpot please.

Cedric Lackpot - - Parent

J. Thomas Looney died at Swadlincote in 1944. 'Nuff said.

Llama_Bill - - Parent

Measham Road to Darton BJC - 1:20
Measham Road to Canterbury BJC - 3:07

lukeburrage - - Parent

The main reason I won’t be returning to the BJC again soon, and the reason why I don’t recommend it to European jugglers when they ask me about it, is the time of year and the accompanying high chances of bad weather.

That’s the reason I’m not going again this year. The better time of year is also the main reason I’m going to the Catch festival this year.

If the BJC was held in July, I’d probably go every year.

charlieh - - Parent

That's rather a silly reason not to recommend it, Luke. Yes, some BJCs have had awful weather, but plenty have had good weather, even the ones held in the far flung North. Also, last time I went to the Lakes in the summer we had really quite a lot of rain.

There's no guarantee of good weather at any time of year, although it's likely to be a lot warmer in the summer of course. I'd be more inclined to talk about the shows, workshops, halls and general vibe of the BJC than the weather - if nothing else, to avoid becoming a national stereotype!

lukeburrage - - Parent

Not, it's not a silly reason. It's a major factor for me, and judging from the feedback I get from non-UK jugglers who visit the BJC, it's also the main complaint they have.

In Europe, if a convention is held in the winter, camping isn't expected. It's an indoor sleeping convention, with entire sports halls or other rooms set aside for people to lay out mats and sleeping bags. If the convention is late spring to early autumn, camping becomes an option. The BJC insists that camping is an option, even when the chances of bad weather is worse than good weather.

For example, Berlin held its convention in September last year, due to some date conflicts, and everyone expected the weather to be fine. But it wasn't. It was waaay colder than it is in May or June, the normal date for the event, and it got dark way earlier. So now the convention has moved back to the summer again.

Just so you know, the shows, workshops, halls and vibes at the BJC are no better than other national conventions in Europe. There is nothing to recommend them above conventions at better times of year and with better weather than the BJC. The chances of bad weather in March in Scotland though? Camping on the top of a mountain in Yorkshire in April, with tents being blown away? No thanks!

Rain isn't so much of a problem if the temperature isn't too bad. Just the difference from March to May was enough for it not to be too stressful for us to camp at Bungay. But the BJC that same year? Nope, we got a B&B.

Stephen Meschke - - Parent

Canterberry in April:

  • High: 52°F
  • Low: 39°F
  • Average 7 days of rain.
  • 13.5 hours of daylight (+1 hr of twilight)

Cumbria in July:

  • High: 63°F
  • Low: 48°F
  • 16 hours of daylight (+1.5 hrs of twilight)

lukeburrage - - Parent

If you are wondering about reduced numbers of people at the BJOC, I think the comparison you want is Perth, Scotland, in March and anywhere in the UK in July.

Perth in March:
Average high 6.4°C
Average low 2.1°C

Canterbury in July:
Average high 22.8°C
Average low 12.9°C

Penrith (closest city to Appleby) in July:
Average high 19.4°C
Average low 10.5°C

Conclusion: if the BJC was in July, anywhere in the UK, I'd probably go and be okay to camp every year.

Little Paul - - Parent

What’s with the crazy units?

Cedric Lackpot - - Parent

I may not agree with a whole lot of what Luke has to say - and I'm pretty confident he's perfectly cool to be disagreed with - but I confidently and assertively agree that the climate is not a silly reason.

And it's certainly nowhere near as silly as saying that the British climate is unpredictable at all times of year, and therefore implying that the probability of seasonal or non-seasonal weather is immaterial regardless of the time in question!

There are a number of good reasons to hold BJCs at or around Easter - the weather is not one of them.

rosiejane - - Parent

I have to agree, the damn weather and having to camp is always a factor that is lurking in the background, taking the edge off my anticipation. I am not the best camper - can't sleep well in a tent, so this year for the first time we have opted for the local Premier Inn. It does feel like a cop out but seeing as my hot water bottle is going to the IJC I couldn't face a week sleeping in a cold tent.

That being said the British EJC in 2019 will be in August and I am hoping that it will be considerably warmer and with little rain! Newark is only 50 miles from Swad so not far off being pretty central and we really really hope that we can entice as many jugglers, hoopers, diabolists, aerialists etc to it as we can.

As it is in Britain I am hoping to attract not only all the wonderful people from all over the world who come to EJC but all of those Brits that have never been to one before.

I know there is another EJC before it (2018 - Azores) but I am just slipping it in now so it's in your subconscious!!

PS the EJA are looking for a team for 2020, so if you know someone who might be interested in finding out more about organising a huge event like the EJC then send an email to info@eja.net

lukeburrage - - Parent

Let me ponder my BJC camping history:

2000 - so wet I never pitched my tent, and slept in the car instead.
2001 - some nice weather, but freezing cold one night and as it pouring with rain on the last day, it was the least pleasant final day of a convention ever.
2002 - after two years of terrible weather, I skipped the BJC completely! I went to the Israeli convention instead. The weather was amazing.
2003 - didn't camp, got a room at the university instead. People complained about ice on their tents. This was Brighton, not Scotland, so the location isn't always the most important thing.
2004 - performer, and was provided accommodation.
2005 - performer, and was provided accommodation.
2006 - performer, and was provided accommodation.
2007 - performer, and was provided accommodation.
2008 - performer, and was provided accommodation.
2009 - got myself a B&B, but as this was a summer convention, I would probably have been happy to camp.
2010 - BJC switched back to a winter convention again, and I decided to skip it again.
2011 to 2013 - nope.
2014 - borrowed my parents' camper van.
2015 - camper van not an option, didn't want to camp in the same place where the previous year peoples' tents had blown away.
2016 - nope.
2017 - B&B again.

Ah look, I literally only camped at a BJC once! The only reason I kept going was being either by paying for accommodation myself, or being offered non-camping options for performing various acts in various shows.

Premier Inn is not a cop out, it's the only way sensible adults will keep returning to a camping convention in the winter/early spring!

Squibly - - Parent

This seems to be a wall of evidence that you have very little experience of camping at a BJC, but didn't enjoy it one time 7 years ago.
Doesn't seem fair to the British scene to spend so much time and energy discouraging others on that basis Luke.

lukeburrage - - Parent

It's not just the camping. It's the general wet and cold atmosphere. In 2009 the convention was in the summer in Norfolk. I went to the FIRE SHOW. I sat outside and watched the fire show and it wasn't the most miserable moment of my entire year. Do you know how amazing that felt? A BJC fire show which wasn't utterly unbearable to watch. Wow. And in the evenings we were hanging out on the grass between the gyms. The renegade show tent didn't need space heaters. Nobody was wrapped up for winter for no reason at all except the sun had gone down. We could watch the Sharpe brothers do their street show, just outside one day, and it wasn't remarkable that the wind wasn't so bad they couldn't do any diabolo tricks.

Then my next BJC, when hosting the games, I had to make announcements that people's tents were blowing away, and they should go check on them before we left for the gala show.

It's not about my camping experience, it's about having a relaxing time at a convention.

Again, the Berlin convention miscalculated with holding it in September last year, and the very next year it is back to June, based ENTIRELY on the weather and how soon it got dark. How did it take them one year to learn the lesson but the BJC keeps at it?

I hope that after the Catch this year and the EJC next year, people will finally learn, and the BJC can be a summer convention from now on. Or at least a late-May to late-Augst convention.

Orinoco - - Parent

It is true the BJC fire show is consistently unbearable to watch, but I have never attributed that fact to the weather.

The Void - - Parent

*Tries to donate a fiver to The Edge, for that comment*
*Finds out there's a minimum £10 donation*
It wasn't *that* funny. Cash at BJC do ya?

Little Paul - - Parent

It’s no Crawley fire show that’s for sure

charlieh - - Parent

As others have said, you've hardly ever camped at a BJC so I don't think you're really qualified to comment. I've camped at BJCs since 1993 (Birmingham) with a few gaps and I've never felt particularly cold, been woken up by bad weather or had a leaky tent. It has *been* cold, I agree, but with decent clothing and a good sleeping bag that's not a problem. Yes, it can be cold & wet outside but I've also sat outside on the grass in a T-shirt some years. In fact the one time I've been flooded out was at EJC Ptuj (which was the very definition of wet and cold and miserable).

Of course the BJC could be in the summer. It has been, in Norwich, after plans for the usual time fell through, as you said, and it was lovely and warm. It could be any time from late May (but don't you dare schedule it against Bungay, otherwise I shall be *really* scathing). It could be at Christmas. But someone has to stand up and volunteer to run it at that time and this bid has to be voted through at the business meeting - you know how this works. They'll then have to contend with competing with other festivals (including non-juggling ones), university exams and all the others things that may not have such impact in late March/early April/Easterish, availability of venues not in the Easter holidays and lots of other factors.

There's no point writing 'people will actually learn' in the hope it will happen - it will take someone to stand up and come up with a concrete plan for a summer BJC. As you know, there's no British Juggling Association running BJCs <nails lid firmly back on big can of worms> just whoever stands up and volunteers a year of their life.

I think we have an interesting situation this year with Catch! which is kind of an alternative BJC-ish thing in the summer with great acts in the show. This may well prove that a summer BJC-ish festival could work, in which case I look forward to many more bids of this kind.

lukeburrage - - Parent

No, I think I am qualified to comment. The point of my comment is that the bad weather has been the deciding factor in why I decided not to go to the BJC. And not just once. After York and Cardiff, I didn't go back to the BJC, and went somewhere else instead. Same in 2010. Same in 2015. Same in 2017.

The people who are happy to camp in the ice/snow/wind/rain/etc of the UK in March/April? You don't have to worry about them. But what about all the people whose first BJC was Derby in 2004? How many people didn't bother coming back the next year? Even though I didn't camp, I drove home to Newcastle with two people who did, and the stop in a pub on the way home for dinner, and sitting in front of the fire, was the first time they had felt properly warm and comfortable for the previous five days.

The people who don't go to the BJC are the ones qualified to talk about why they don't go, and are 100% correct about the reasons the numbers might be down... at least for the number they represent.

The people who DO go to the BJC, by the fact they can cope with the stress of bad weather, are not qualified to talk about the reasons the people who don't go aren't going.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

I've gone to the BJC once (I think 2015?). I had to sleep inside on the last night, it was a rainy festival.
I'm going again this year, very happy to bring my campervan!

pumpkineater23 - - Parent

That's a good point, no one likes going anywhere when it's cold and sodden. Why don't they hold the festival mid-summer?

It's Him - - Parent

The historic reason for the BJC being at Easter rather than in the summer is that performers are much more likely to not be working at that time. Whether as a performer in the show who charges less than their normal fee or as an attending performer who doesn't want to miss out on the lucrative summer months Easter makes much more sense. Touring circus often runs from after Easter until sometime in Autumn, so the timing would help them to attend. Nowadays BJC does not have as many professional entertainers and so this is not as good an argument as before. It still might mean that it is difficult to get the best professionals, although Rosie seems to be showing that a summer convention with enough funding can do that anyway.

Nigel

lukeburrage - - Parent

If you get 2,000 people at the convention, you can pay professionals to be there. It’s how the EJC works. There is no reason a BJC in the summer can’t attract 2,000 people.

It's Him - - Parent

I wasn't arguing in favour of an Easter BJC. I too enjoyed the summer BJC (although it cost me earnings). I was giving one of the traditional arguments for an Easter BJC. It makes sense for professional entertainers. I'm not sure it makes much sense for the majority of people who now attend the BJC.

Nigel

lukeburrage - - Parent

Yes, I understand. My first BJC in 2000, it seemed that the main influence on a large portion of the jugglers there was street performers and circus performers. These days the largest influence is other amateur jugglers. Why would anyone have a pair of stilts or a unicycle to take part in a parade? Why does the parade even exist? Does it still exist?

Little Paul - - Parent

Oh god. Parades. Please make them stop.

I know it's quite often a hook you can dangle towards the local city council to get some money off a venue, or land some other source of funding, but when you promise them a "colourful entertaining parade of jugglers acrobats and circus folk!" they picture an old fashioned circus parade. They picture tumbling acrobats, sequins and clowns. They picture free facepainting for the public, they picture ringmasters and jugglers and absolutely everything you can't deliver.

What they inevitably get is a bunch of people half heartedly walking along juggling 3 clubs or spinning a diabolo while talking to their mates and shuffling down the local high street. At best you might get one or two people wearing balloon hats, or a teenage unicyclist trial riding on every park bench or raised flower bed they can find.

Parades are at their absolute worst when everyone is only there because you made them attend the parade as a side effect of getting the bus into town for the evening show.

Parades are shit. "Because we've always done it" isn't a good enough reason.

Stop it

Just...

stop.

(and.... *breathe*)

lukeburrage - - Parent

EJC parades can still be good fun if the weather is nice. There's often an open air show on a specially build stage at the end of it, and those are usually worth seeing, like Smashed by the Gandinis in Almere (though not like 8 Songs by the Gandinis in Lublin).

Little Paul - - Parent

Is it the parade which is good, or is it the "show on the open air stage" bit which is good?

Because I would wager that of the two, the open air show is the bit that could stand on it's own. Do that, do more of that. Advertise it locally, get the public in as well, make a big deal of the fact that there's a show in town!

Who is the parade for?

If it's for the locals, then we're doing them a massive disservice (even EJC parades are closer to the atmosphere of a protest march than they are "rio carnival")

If it's for the jugglers, then what's in it for us apart from a show or "the games" at the end of it? If it's a show/games then why do we need to wander round the streets for an hour first? Why can't we be dropped off next to the show and just get on with the good bit?

Want to do something for the locals that actually shows jugglers in a good light? Put on more shows, run a street performing competition, run free-fringe style events in small local venues...

Just please, not a bloody miserable death march through town.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

As a young juggler I really enjoyed my first 5 parades or so.. Now after 15 at least it gets a bit unexciting yes..

charlieh - - Parent

I've really enjoyed the EJC parades I've been on, simply due to the amount of jugglers taking part - I think there's a critical mass. EJC Almere was particularly fun (especially our Ben occasionally pausing to show the crowd his single diabolo trick and getting rounds of applause - he was 6 at the time) and EJC in Carvin was mad, as it was at night and there was fire (health & safety??). I agree some BJC parades can be damp and disappointing.

peterbone - - Parent

I have exactly the opposite logic. BJC is my preferred convention because it's much cooler than in the summer. This means that I can juggle a lot without getting too hot. I don't care much about being outside. At most EJCs I've been to I'm unable to juggle most of the time because of the heat and I don't like to be outside in very hot conditions because of sunburn and other risks. I normally only go to the more northerly EJCs, although Joensuu didn't work out as I expected (40°C).

peterbone - - Parent

Also no fun when you have to leave your tent at 8am because the blazing sun is hitting it and roasting you alive. I've camped at every BJC I've been to and the only time I was cold was 2003 in Brighton because of the ice/snow.

pumpkineater23 - - Parent

You're not a tropical creature like me. Give me the early morning roasting sun anyday. I'd just go and find a nice shady spot and finish my sleep there. Or go to bed earlier. Camping in the snow.. are you quite mad? I went 'wild' camping at Brecon Beacons after the green man festival. It was horrible, damp and miserable.. couldn't wait for it to end. The only enjoying part I remember was when I was sitting in my car with the heating on.

furlisht - - Parent

I'm going for the first time from the continent just because it's close to the border! Don't kill my hype :P

Llama_Bill - - Parent

You'll have a great time. I've enjoyed every BJC I've been to. I am excited for this one.

charlieh - - Parent

You will indeed have an excellent time. Sadly I don't think I can make it this time (due to foreign travel for work the next week) but I'll certainly miss it.

Dee - - Parent

Enjoy - and if you have any questions, I'll probably be at the registration / information desk!

It's Him - - Parent

Given I barely saw you out of the kitchen, did BJC feel significantly smaller to you than previously? I understand that total numbers were around 700 but hadn't been properly counted when I heard Anna discuss this with Owen Morse after the business meeting.

Nigel

ChrisD - - Parent

Nigel, in your current thread "For several years now I have been suggesting a juggling competition for older…" you wrote "If the BJC doesn't happen next year (or even if it does)". May I ask if there there is any particular reason for suggesting there may not be a BJC next year?

Cheers,

Chris

Orinoco - - Parent

No bids to run it so far :(

It's Him - - Parent

During the Sunday meeting nobody stood up and said that they wanted to run a BJC in 2019. During the BJC I heard on several occasions people saying that there wouldn't be a BJC because EJC was in England next year. I am not strongly optimistic about a BJC next year because I haven't heard any great enthusiasm from anyone although I have now heard rumours about people thinking about it 'up north'.

Nigel

duncanh - - Parent

I know one person who has an excellent venue and good plans for putting a bid together for 2019. They've never run one but assisted, so know what's involved. Just looking to put together a local team I think. Hopefully their initial thoughts and ideas will come through and they'll make themselves known soon.
Another team was interested and had ideas of a venue but nothing firm.

Monte - - Parent

Seemed similar in size to the last one I did (Pickering). I did do very well but I put that down to being inside and having a full sized kitchen rather than my truck. Plus the excellant quality of my crew...

varkor -

Guinness world records for juggling...

I recently heard that for (some/all?) marathon-style events, GWR permits (accumulating) breaks every hour — for example, a 5-minute break every hour. Since the 3- and 4-ball endurance world records were both awarded by GWR, I was wondering whether anyone knew whether this was also the case for the juggling records?

Call me a purist, but it seems that, as impressive as juggling for 12 hours, with only short breaks in, is — it wouldn't be fair to strictly count time after taking breaks, and it'd be nice to know if this was the case for those records. Anyone know, or have any thoughts?

furlisht - - Parent

I'd like to know that as well, I always wondered how a normal human being deals with basic human commodity for 12 hours while juggling!

Scott Seltzer - - Parent

It's been suggested that an adult diaper might be helpful. Also drinking from a straw and being fed carefully.

Kelhoon - - Parent

or a few cycles of "eating the apple" ?

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Once you sign up for doing an actual entry, you get an email including aaalll of the specifications and rules regarding that particular entry (if one has been set before). So I recommend pretending you're going to set something.
I've done so ages ago for a record, wasn't too complicated.

varkor - - Parent

Ah, that's good advice, thank you! I just sent a general enquiry a moment ago, but if they can't give me the information, I shall do that! I'll report back here when I know more.

varkor - - Parent

Their general enquiry reply was a lot of auto-generated nonsense, so I've submitted a record attempt form. Let's see where that goes...

Scott Seltzer - - Parent

Doesn't answer your questions, but here's an interview with the record holder that was just published: https://www.juggle.org/interview-david-slick/

Daniel Simu - - Parent

From the interview: "No breaks allowed and the throwing must alternate hands."

Daniel Simu - - Parent

And then in the promo video posted in the article there is a news caption:
"David Slick goes 12 hours without eating, drinking or bathroom break"

varkor - - Parent

That's much more detailed than anything I managed to find previously, thanks! That seems to support a continuous 12-hour record, which is comforting! (Especially the quotes about training for a long time to be able to do that.)

Jedi Juggler - - Parent

By "must alternate hands", does that mean you can't set records for synchronous patterns? Or would it still be alright since both hands are used? What about siteswaps with a "0" where you end up throwing with the same hand twice?

Daniel Simu - - Parent

I guess for this particular record they want you to throw a cascade, and "must alternate hands" was the way Guinness describes the cascade. Of course one can try and be creative with the rules, but first we must consult the full rule document which Varkor might receive soon.

peterbone - - Parent

I think that the records they allow short breaks for are not skill based. For example, longest time spend video gaming.

varkor - - Parent

I managed to get my hands on the rules for the 3-ball juggling record. The details specific to the 3-ball record (as opposed to more general classes of records), are:

1. Three objects are to be juggled. It is recommended that they are balls but other objects can be used, including (but not limited to) clubs, staffs or rings.
2. The objects to be juggled must be pre-approved by GWR.
3. All patterns used must be continuously alternating right-left-right-left (Cascade pattern).
4. No left-left or right-right will be allowed at any time.
5. If any of the objects are dropped, the attempt ends at that moment.
6. No ‘multiplexing’ is allowed for attempts on this record. If two objects are caught in the same hand at the same time, the attempt is ended at that point.
7. Food and drink can be consumed during the attempt but the challenger cannot stop juggling to do this, an assistant can help.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Thanks for updating. Much purer than I'd heard!

Mike Moore -

Inverted sprung basic siteswaps

Not as hard as I thought they'd be! Still hardish, though, especially 531 which needs to have VERY precise timing.

IS441: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bbf35t4H5-2/?taken-by=artifaxiom

IS423: https://www.instagram.com/p/BbNu2yaHlbC/?taken-by=artifaxiom

IS531: https://www.instagram.com/p/BbS8pzLHTc6/?taken-by=artifaxiom

Thanks to Julius for showing the world that inverted sprung cascade was possible to do as a solid pattern, and to Quinn Lewis for encouraging me to work on it.

pumpkineater23 - - Parent

That is amazing Mike. Truly next level!!!

furlisht - - Parent

Super impressive, I didn't know it was possible! Great job!

The Void -

Peter Richardson 3-Ball stack. Found this clip from last years's BJC on my phone.
http://juggling.tv/16287

#bjc2017 #bjc

The Void - - Parent

Whoops! Copyfail.
http://juggling.tv/16288

7b_wizard - - Parent

Great watch. Also strong 5c bx and nice 7b cascade in the background.

Little Paul - - Parent

Nice, he's getting good at that (and isn't cheating by using those horrible saggy slomo/gertie balls favoured by some 3 ball stack spinners ;)

Although I did get somewhat distracted by Luke Burrage failing to flash 6 clubs in the background. I thought you had that more solid than that Luke? Or were you just having a bad day?

lukeburrage - - Parent

There is another video from this same session where I'm nailing 5 club backcrosses over and over in the background. So it wasn't too bad of a day.

lukeburrage - - Parent

Turns out that's me failing to flash 7 clubs.

The Void - - Parent

One better! :)

Colin E. - - Parent

he can do one more then you.

Little Paul - - Parent

Ahh, well, that would line up better with my mental picture of your skill level :)

mtb - - Parent

Is this one of those tricks that it more difficult than it looks? Because it looked reasonably easy, although not something one can do in the first couple of attempts.

The Void - - Parent

Peter's been ball-spinning for a long time, so he's good at it. When you're good at something, it often "looks easy" to the uninitiated.
It isn't.

mtb - - Parent

Yeah, I thought it was one of those. I have never tried it, so was asking in pure ignorance.

I will say that I was not expecting it to be that much more difficult than I thought it was, based on Nigel's comment below.

Little Paul - - Parent

It jumps up surprisingly fast (unless you're cheating and using the saggy balloon balls that the americans like so much)

If spinning 1 ball = juggling 3 balls, a 2 ball stack is 5 balls, and a 3 ball stack is probably somewhere around 9 balls.

4 balls stacked is just crazy. I've only ever heard of one person getting anywhere with it.

I learned to spin a ball in a little over a week, about 10-15 years ago. Took me about another month to get it comfortably solid a while to get it "solid" - a broadly comparable amount of time to learning a 3 ball cascade.

A few years later I spent a week long festival mostly working on adding a second ball, it stayed on for probably 3 seconds at best. I think in total, that reflects the amount of practice time it took me to go from a solid 3 ball pattern cascade to 10-15 catches of 5 balls.

That was probably nearly a decade ago, and although I admit I don't work on it that often, I've never got more than about 15 seconds of a 2 ball stack (with proper balls) which feels like the equivalent amount of work that it took me to get up to 100 catches of 5 balls.

You can imagine how long I think it would take me to add a 3rd ball!

mtb - - Parent

Sjoe!

It's Him - - Parent

I've been ball spinning for around 15 years. I can stack two balls sometimes but three is definitely beyond me. I've seen Pete stack 4 balls once in 2004 (BJC Derby) at around 01:00. Shame there was no-one around to record that.

Nigel

furlisht - - Parent

Nice looking trick, but i'll be honest with you, I expected to see at least 3 balls in this video.

lukeburrage -

I don't share many of my juggling videos here at the Edge, but this one is an exception:

https://youtu.be/M22bYjTWJw0

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Well done! The third song is my favorite, it's funny!! Thanks for running the poll again this year :)

A suggestion, perhaps put the names of the jugglers in the subtitles?

lukeburrage - - Parent

Nah, I'll leave it to people to do their own research.

pumpkineater23 - - Parent

If the names were listed then some people might watch with the sound off and miss out on Luke's amazing rapping!

As always I enjoyed the video. The top 40's inject lots of very positive stuff to the juggling world I think, thanks for doing them.

furlisht - - Parent

Nice one, didn't expect that! Thanks again!

Orinoco -

There are two possibly unpopular changes that I'd like to make to the Edge.

At the moment all links found within post content open in a new window. My original reasoning being that if you were composing a post using the inline reply box then clicked a link you would lose your post. This is the wrong thing to do because people who genuinely do want to open a link in the same tab have no option to do so, & all links outside of post content open in the same tab anyway.

Secondly, in 2017 I'd like to have to stop explaining what 'Small talk' is. Since Big talk was axed it makes no sense to make any distinction so I'd like to simply replace all references to 'small talk' with 'forum'.

Anyone (or rather: 'how many people have'!) got any objections?

furlisht - - Parent

As a person who rarely post but lurks intensively, here's what i think:

1) Links : Any chance that you could do this change but add a "open in new tab" button (this small icon : https://jugglingedge.com/userfiles/Orinoco/SmallTalkFiles/newwindow.png) near the links? That would help people visualize more what they are doing when clicking on the link or the icon.

2) No objections

furlisht - - Parent

Of course if you could edit this horrendous image, that would be great :D. Sorry about that

Orinoco - - Parent

Hahahaha! Icon resized to match the description :P

The Void - - Parent

1. I'm generally in the habit of right-click>newtabbing , or tap-hold>newtabbing anyway, so no bg deal for me. I expect I'd get caught out a few times, but I'd get over it.
2. No objections, but have you considered "Talk"? Maybe "forum" is a word you'd like to show up in searches...

After reading your thread title, I was pretty worried, but these don't seem like that big a deal to me.

....actually I'm now more concerned that I don't know whether I think it should be "that big a deal" or "that big of a deal"...

7b_wizard - - Parent

Trifles. Thanks for asking!   1. I'm pretty good at clicking - I'll manage.   2. "Names are (but) sound and smoke." [ german saying :o) ="What's in a name?"]

Little Paul - - Parent

Omg! Nooo!

Not really, go for whatever - I don't think either of those are a massive issue from my POV

Slightly surprised you didn't set it as a poll though :)

david - - Parent

Forum is not my favorite name after my phorum experience. Also I'm not a fan of the Roman Empire. I guess Home is taken, perhaps The Edge or just Edge would work. Or Talk. Actually I' l learn to ignore it anyway. I can adjust to different links as well.

The Void - - Parent

Thanks for giving me the chance to use the word synecdoche in context.

Orinoco - - Parent

Synecdoche, that makes 29803.

Slowly catching up.

My Vocabulary Size is about: 30150!* What about you? https://t.co/4HajgDpL2a #NLN I'm in the top 0.01% most arrogant.
*allegedly.
— The Void (@TheVoidTLMB) July 13, 2016

david - - Parent

29800

Daniel Simu - - Parent

I too vote for Talk

7b_wizard -

What is "juggling" ..

            .. FOR YOU ?

            ( nevermind what's all to be seen on videos, nevermind any ``best´´ definitions )

Please try to name just the keywords, first major associations that you have when you think of "your juggling"!  ( Be it what you actually do, be it what you want, what you're haunted by, be it what you love most about it. )

7b_wizard - - Parent

I think of 7b cascade, its rolling top of its pattern.   Bodythrows  ( mainly backcrosses, under the arm, reachovers, claws, rolls, with fewer balls then, selfspeaking ).   Multiplexing.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Peace, focus, fight, friends.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Throwing, catching, balance...

furlisht - - Parent

Failing
Failing again
Succeeding
Finding a moment of joy
Seeking perfection
Sharing all those moments with other jugglers

Then there's another trick to learn, another failure, another moment of joy, another thing to share

Little Paul - - Parent

Something diverting to watch while sharing tea, cake and biscuits with my friends.

Maria - - Parent

Clubs spinning in the air
Always trying to learn something new, or struggling with tricks I want to get better at
The feeling of accomplishment when I get a new trick
The joy of passing with other jugglers, trying to get a good round of a pattern that is a bit difficult
A way to enjoy myself, staying active and meeting friends

Monte - - Parent

A way to keep in touch with some special people I've met over the years. Oh and a bit of showing off too.

pumpkineater23 - - Parent

*For me* it's a dance (not to be confused with dancing whilst juggling). I'd prefer if was also a little more 'puzzle solving' or creative puzzle solving.

I haven't been practicing much recently which is a great shame I think.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Problem solving is a great way to put it. For me, there are two kinds of problem solving for juggling:
While freestyling: my method here is to put myself in awkward positions, then figure out how to get out of them. Sometimes I'll try putting myself into the same position a few times, and seeing if I can react in different ways.
Knocking out a pattern on paper, or in my head. "I want this attribute, then this one...how can I make it continuous, with no setup throws, and ambidextrous?"

Louise Kennedy -

Just wanted to let everyone on here know.
Haavard and I have made a 1 Hour video and just to let you all know you will be able to download it from here tomorrow at 3pm GMT.
https://www.corrections.club/

Currently 3 people have already seen it and wrote a review each. See below.
Ps we are both looking forward to sharing it with everyone.

Matthew Tiffany wrote,
'Not even in my dreams would I imagine some of the tricks in this movie, Corrections is so much more because of its, corrections!
The hour long film shows what its like to be a juggler, not a performer. It lovingly documents the art form and community that surrounds it from the perspective of two of the world’s current favourite jugglers. The childish humour and ‘spectacular’ acting break up juggling that’s so hard it barely fits on the screen. Although it might be the first juggling video to deserve a 15 age certificate!
Like an album of songs this video has everything from a quiet solo balled to a prog rock masterpiece, but it is best viewed in my opinion, without a break, at least the first time. With stellar juggling performances from the main cast, great cameos and unexpected humorous treats along the way, this one will inspire you to ring your mates and go JUGGLE!! Thanks so much for this gift to the community.'

Naoya Aoki from Japan wrote this,
'It's going to be open tomorrow, one hour and a juggling video.
Louis Kennedy and the e were edited by sen.
It was really bad. It was like this.

Skateboard
We're going in the ambulance, Julian.
Quantum Leap
The Naked Christian Van Vick
Toilet
Cheese Pasta
With a knife that laughs like crazy lewis
Rapper
Quantum Leap
Other... (such as an excellent performance by a large number of juggler, etc.

This is how it is to be released free.
I used to remember this very well-done, man. No, I don't.
It may be a good time to see it, DL.

It's open to the public tomorrow. I hope you enjoyed it. There's no way I can see it.
https://www.corrections.club

I just finished watching the video that Lewis and Haavard edited!!
Sorry guys that I tasted this juicy footage earlier than you.
Honestly it was really great.
As my apology, I’ll put sneak peek here only for you guys.
Don't tell Lewis and Haavard!
The video includes contents below.

-Skateboarding
-Ambulance taking Julian to the hospital
-Time machine
-Hot Kristian Wanvik
-Toilet
-Cheesy pasta
-Lewis Kennedy having a knife in hand and laughing like crazy
-Rapper
-Time machine
etc… (ex. awesome juggling by various jugglers)

and guys, this will be available for FREE from tomorrow via the link below anyways!
https://www.corrections.club

Mega!!!'


and finally Peter Åberg wrote this,
'Corrections is a movie made from the love, and for the fun of juggling!
It's full of extremely technical juggling tricks, mostly with balls and clubs. But even if you're in to ring juggling you will not be disappointed, the norwegian Power Rangers has something for everyone.'

HIGH FIVE
This is a movie everyone should watch!

Louise Kennedy - - Parent

Well I dont really understand why this post messed up. :P
and now I can't delete or edit it.
but not to worry. :P

Jedi Juggler - - Parent

I couldn't wait to get home from work and watch this today! From start to finish I absolutely loved it! It had such a "fun" feel to it all the while displaying some of the most mind blowing juggling I've ever seen. My only criticism is that now I want to quit my job and juggle my life away, but would that really be so bad??? Keep up the awesome work, man!

Louise Kennedy - - Parent

haha!

Thans for the nice words Jedi, it inspires us to juggling more and more. :)
HIGH FIVE!!!

Mike Moore - - Parent

Had some jugglers over and we all enjoyed watching this video. There were loads of absolutely KILLER moments! The choreography for the passing section really stood out to me, it was beautiful.

Louise Kennedy - - Parent

Thanks Mike!!!

I think the passing sections was my favourite tbh. We put a lot of time into that sections. :)
HIGH FIVE man.
ps I expect to see a video from you soon. :P
hehe

mtb - - Parent

Ooof... That ball passing. Really enjoyed this, thanks so much for the trouble and effort.

Louise Kennedy - - Parent

Danke man!!!
The ball passing was one of my favourites sections.

HIGH FIVE for watching and commenting. :)

mtb - - Parent

Another question: since when did clubs become as easy to juggle as balls? I am clearly doing something wrong....

furlisht - - Parent

I just watched the video/movie with a friend and boy did we swear a lot directly to the screen! This video has everything, crazy tricks made by crazy people, lot of feel good in it backed with serious juggling shit! The knife sessions were a bit frightening though!

Anyway, we loved it!

Daniel Simu - - Parent

I finally finished watching it completely, thank you so much Lewis and Haavard!

My favorite parts are the Kristian Wanvik section and the 5 ball tricks done with 5 clubs!

Well done :D

varkor -

12 minutes and 52 seconds
https://youtu.be/w14sfOZaQu0

No, I too cannot think of anything more interesting to do than watch 13 minutes of a 7-ball cascade.

Stephen Meschke - - Parent

Gatto no longer owns the 7 object trifecta. His record with 7 balls was 11 minutes 37 seconds in 2011.

Ethan - - Parent

For some strange reason I feel really happy, but at the same time really sad..........

Orinoco - - Parent

That really shows how dedicated Ofek is. There is no way I could go to that place & juggle when there are so many other things to play with!

furlisht - - Parent

The important part for me is the fact that the new world record was made with kids running around him! Super impressive!

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