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Fully inverted sprung cascade
The first of my endgame patterns. FINALLY got a qualify!!
This is really nice. How hard is it to run for longer periods do you think? Is the jump from inverted box to this super insane, or just insane?
Oh man, SUPER insane for sure. In my opinion, inverted box is somewhere between 4.25-4.5 ball difficulty. Inverted sprung cascade is somewhere a little ~6.25 ball difficulty. Inverted sprung fountain (https://www.instagram.com/p/BiFhmhsDHVU/) is probably about 7b difficulty. I can't run fully inverted sprung cascade for long enough to give it a nice number like the others, but it's the only one among that group that I have to mentally really psych myself up for and can't follow in real-time. It's much harder than inverted sprung fountain.
Who knows, though. Maybe I went through the learning process of it poorly and other ways would knock down its difficulty considerably. And there's always the added difficulty of being the first to do it. It'll be easier to gauge its difficulty when a few more people can wrap their hands around it.
There is a pattern that I thought of at IJA 2013 that seemed so conceptually clear (but non-obvious) and disastrously difficult. ~4 years ago I realized that there would be three interesting stepping stone patterns along the way. They were all so far above my skill level at the time, and I'm still not convinced they're all doable by me, but I set the very long-term goal to run them all before retiring from juggling. I reckon I can probably make progress on them until my early-mid thirties (other parts of life permitting), so there's slight urgency.
Fully inverted sprung cascade (FISC) is the first of those four patterns! In my opinion, patterns 2 and 3 aren't as cool as FISC, but pattern 4 would be a dream. I don't want to expose the later three patterns just yet, sorry!
4: I guess it's inverted 5 ball tennis. I also think you probably have at least until you're 40 to work on this stuff.
It would be nice to have until 40! Having injured myself a handful of times through juggling working on things like this, I'd be a bit surprised to make it to 40.
Can you tell me what you mean by inverted 5 ball tennis? Maybe Inverted sprung 5b cascade? (Which is not the 4th)
Yes, inverted sprung 5b cascade. Do you think that's even possible at all?
And let's hope your practice can make it to 40 and beyond! It's always good to see a new trick from Mike Moore.
I think it's possible, yes. I would guess it's even possible for me, but it would be very finnicky with all that 5b in not much horizontal space. Maybe in a year or two!
My practice will probably still be happening at age 40! Just on tricks less physically demanding with handspeed.
Amazing stuff Mike. It almost looks 'easy' in some kind of strange way. I can see there is almost no time to get from one throw to the next though, so it looks almost impossible too. You are truly pushing the boundaries!
Thank you for letting me join the group.
I'm probably a lot older than most of you. Just turned 50...had learning to ride a unicycle on my bucket list for many years. With age comes more determination to fund the time to do what you want for yourself...so finally here I am...owner of a starter unicycle and raring to go. I'll keep you posted on my progress.
Wish me luck!!
(ponders filtering ISO 8601 dates through a siteswap validator to see when the next siteswap day is)
I run the Durham University Circus Society which meets Sundays in Durham UK.
Even though we share part of our name with the univeristy we are open to all and welcome anyone to come along and join in.
We are currently a very new club and have spent this academic year finding our footing and therefore the club is currently free for all to attend.
We mostly practice juggling and unicycling but this is not exclusive and if you are in the area and want to practice other circus skills then come along or get in touch.
Our current equipmement consists of: Juggling balls & clubs, 3 unicycles, one giraffe unicycle, a slackline and an adult pogo stick. We also allow members to borrow equipement during the week.
We meet every Sunday and this means that we are nicely spread around the meeting times of other local clubs (Durham City Jugglers on Tuesday and JUST on Thursday) providing lots of options for jugglers in the North East of England. It also means keen jugglers can now meet up 3 times a week!
We also run local workshops around the Durham area, in June we are doing workshops at college events and for a local Guides group.
You can find out the most up-to-date club details on our Facebook group. You can get in touch with us there, or if Facebook is not your thing, then feel free to send us an email and we can answer any questions or add you to the mailing list.
CATCH! Juggling Festival in Cumbria UPDATE
Guys theres going to be a 250 point combat tournament at CATCH! this summer! We have some of the top competitors in the world taking part, I sometimes get more hyped for combat than for the gala show! How about you?
It always a good evenings entertainment, maybe Jon Peat will get another black eye? maybe he'll walk away with the golden apple trophy?? who knows! he did both last time! only one way to find out and thats to be there!
If you havent got tickets to the week grab em now on this link here: https://catchfestival2018.co.uk/tickets
if you want to be in the Fight Night I believe you can sign up on the day AND here through their portal: http://fightnightcombat.com/tournament-Catch-2018.html
Looks like Montegriffo's/cafe chameleon will be getting together again to feed you at Catch.
Bonus for me as my birthday falls on the thursday.
See you in the Lakes...
hello everyone! my name is Yonatan, and i have to admit i have already had a thread here a couple of years back about 5 ball training. I'm ashamed to admit though that the reason I'm posting now is the exact same... i took a really really long break from juggling due to leukemia (all fine now! got me some new bone marrow and I'm three years healthy) and a friend of mine who just got back from the ijc convinced me to get back into it, which I'm super excited about.
since my return to juggling a few things bothered my over analytical database-oriented brain. the first thing was that i don't know how people train. so first question, and this is fairly subjective so i know you gonna have more than a few opinions on this (though I'll be glad to know if any of you have a study on the subject):
what do you find the most efficient way for you to train? working for one specific goal the whole session (trying to get this one trick down)? getting all over the place (working your 5 balls for some time, getting tired and changing it up with some 3 ball body throws or even setting the balls aside for a bit and picking up the diabolo)? or working on similar but different tricks (4 ball shower and 5 balls both have hard tall throws, so lets do both)?
I have a notebook i keep my juggling thoughts in, so i might lay a few more on you the next time i get a chance ;).
been training 5 balls using Thom Wall's guide.. wanted to get your input on it (i can get ~25 throws of right 5551, qualified left 5551, get a flash of 5551 in my fountain and semi-consistent flash 5)
Welcome back and I'm happy to hear you're healthy!
I have a few "focus patterns" that I make sure I put some time into every session. Depending on where I am in those patterns and how things are going on that day, the amount of time for each varies from 3-~15 minutes. Then I have some secondary patterns/pattern families that I try to chip away at when I remember.
My warm up tends to be a "whatever I feel like for a little", sometimes with a focus on a certain type of movement (e.g. left-handed dots, body throw combos, etc.). When warming up for numbers, I try to incorporate patterns that are below my skill level, but unpracticed, so that I have to do lots of corrections. Corrections warm up the body very quickly!
I practically only train with balls. I don't have enough time or skill to make meaningful contributions to juggling with a diversity of props. I do play with other props some, but mostly socially and not too seriously.
Thom Wall's guide + sweat + time = 5b cascade :)
hi man! thanks! what do you mean you do corrections? how do you purposely get in a situation you need to correct?
I find that patterns that are unpracticed but below my general technical skill result in having to do many corrections while keeping the pattern alive. The ones I enjoy right now are some flashes of siteswaps out of a 5b reverse cascade. Balls go everywhere, but because I have a pretty solid 5b and those siteswaps are pretty easy for my in a normal cascade, I can wrangle everything back in and repeat.
And if all else fails, I listen to Chandelier by Sia. I can't help but move a bunch after seeing that amazing music video way too many times.
Yeah, downright mindblowing. There are times when I see/hear something that makes me realize I had no idea how good at certain things people are. Sort of like an abrupt mental re-benchmarking Some examples:
William Lin's BJC performance way back
Maddie Ziegler's Chandelier video
When a competitive classical singer that I was teaching chemistry to sang (!!!)
Occasional research papers (the Nobel Prize one on neutrino oscillations where they had to filter out the radioactivity from THE WIRES IN THEIR ELECTRONICS comes to mind, as well as some of the framework-development ones in educational research).
Do you (or anyone else) remember those types of moments? What are some that come to mind?
I'll have to move those up the reading list a bit. Thanks for the recommendations.
Have you read Thinking Fast and Slow? I'm only partially finished it but am enjoying it an awful lot! Go figure: a book that explains part of how your thought patterns work is good at influencing your thought patterns.
oooh, good question... ones that immediately spring to mind.
Lars Andersen - archery
Jane Zhang doing the Diva song from the Fifth Element live with no synthesizer assistance.
Adam Winrich - whip cracking
Sean DeBurca - fingerstyle guitar, I first saw Sean perform live in Tunbridge Wells when he was I think 17 years old, I had never heard fingerstyle before.
Veronika Petrova, Inna Lymar, & Yuriy Danilchenko - skipping
Sometimes when I see something that SHOULD reframe how I see a discipline, I can feel myself rationalizing that I had obviously thought of that before, or that "of course it should be at this level". It's kind of hard to explain, but that's how I felt when I first saw Lars's archery video (and how I used to see Dave Kelly's and Chris Hodge's videos). Almost like they're doing something categorically different, and the stuff they're doing CAN'T be similar to what I've seen before.
That whip cracking video was something else!
I don't know why, but I've randomly encountered so many VERY good skippers. In high school I saw a professional skipper perform in a talent show. At Turbofest in the first few years I went (2010-~2012?) there was a really amazing skipper. In Japan, while walking the streets randomly, I came across this:
It's funny how things happen.
And the middle section of that Raw Art video was very cool!
Congratulations on the health front! Facing leukemia is a far more impressive trick than a 5 ball cascade so this should be easy for you!
Don't focus too much on 5 ball like patterns. Getting a good start when you launch the pattern is really important, & launching 2 balls from one hand is different to launching 3 so make sure you practice that part.
Also try to practice a little bit more than a flash as soon as possible, even if it is just 1 more throw. With a flash it is fairly easy to compensate for errors in rhythm, during the running pattern, not so much.
If you like data & analysis ty keeping a practice log, it can draw graphs for you & everything!
Thanks man! valuable input. so you say i should stick to the flashes to learn launching 5 balls?
the practice log was a major reason to come back here, though i never used it before :P
I think so.
I don't think it is worthwhile breaking down base patterns (3, 5, 7 ball cascade etc) too much. The best practice for a 5 ball cascade is a 5 ball cascade. Breaking things into components only makes sense to me for combination tricks involving different skills, & for more complex patterns where you need to do different types of throw.
In a cascade every ball does the same thing, for 5+ balls the important points are rhythm, accuracy & speed. If you take out a ball for 55550 it is still possible to do the pattern without the correct timing which allows bad habits to develop.
for 5 ball cascade, I warmly recommend this: http://juggling.tv/16767 with 3 balls, the idea being: if you can't do it with 3 balls, how can you expect to get it with five?! And it will be necessary to keep a 5 ball cascade up and to get it stable, that one has at least somewhat of control on most of those dimensions shown in the vid, especially 5b speed (and handspeed) and 5b height (and precision \accuracy \aiming well there), but also for correcting or for working against any drifts, twists, furthermore for controlling the front plane, then for finding your most comfortable and efficient posture, so far for what I can think of.
It's pure cascade training; this approach skips any 4b exercises, but as you seem to be getting along well with the fountain and siteswaps, all this is maybe just a minor alternative. Yet, checking it out at least briefly might find the one or other exercise that could be a precious clue for improving on 5b.
( I'm afraid my practise, though structured mostly after priorities, that i stubbornly work on, a huge ``plight´´-part, "good-fors" and only a small ``leisure´´-part, .. afraid, my practise isn't as efficient as should, so I'd rather not extend on it. )
cheers & happy juggling
3 ball Shower for old mentally retarded beginner. Just made 10 catches dominant hand Shower. It was pure luck. Left hand only preliminary exercise - two throws left hand + right hand pass and total mess. Any ideas how to learn and improve Shower ? as I understand it is probably intermediate level trick.
Think of it as
Throw & zip,
Throw & zip,
Throw & zip,
Also, try to hold the zipping hand a little higher than the throwing hand. It's easier to zip/pass the ball slightly *downwards* than straight across or upwards.
Thanks for advice. Is it possible to make it geometrically more like a correct CIRCLE ?
Personally, I think of it as an isoceles triangle. If you want to be more circular, hold your hands further apart. But that will make the zips more difficult. Experiment!
Nice and solid two ball version before you progress to three. Keep the two throws (zip throw and up throw) roughly the same distance ie *don't pass the 'zipped' ball* - throw it horizontally with some force. Keep your hands apart and as still as possible (then the next pattern (box) will be much easier.
Thanks for your advice. Yes, I am already looking forward for Box and already practice 2 ball exercise for the Box. My humble guess it is also good for Shower
There is also the "half-shower" (with 3 balls): ___ you throw only outside throws with one hand on its side (rather with stronghand), and only inside throws with the other hand on the other side. The siteswap for that is then not 51, but ``regular´´ 3. The outside throws a bit higher and the inside throws a bit lower, then ( for the higher balls to pass well over the top and not get any collisions ). Then looks a bit more like a half-circle too, but essentially feels notably slower.
.. it's a bit like juggler's tennis, but all tennis throws, every second throw, and only those, now to the same side. ( like a tennis-ball-feeding-machine. if you want. :o| )
You can not even imagine how I love Half-Shower !
Worked very seriously on this pattern, but it was non-reciprocal love ))) So I shifted to preliminary exercises for full Shower, more difficult pattern, with hope that new skills will be useful for my beloved HS ))) Funny that I possibly will learn Shower BEFORE HS )))
I learned shower before cascade, I also do 4 clubs in singles and never learned it in doubles. Not sure if it matters what order you learn things at first. Just enjoy your progression.
I think some order, at first, is important. Better to learn cascade first. It's easier so more likely not give up. Shower should be learned in both directions. Shower and cascade are quite different motor skills. The half shower is a kind of lazy shower (sometimes called lazy shower I think). It caused me bad habits and the real shower and box were more difficult than they needed to be.
tried half-shower today after abstaining for a week and attempts to learn full shower. I feel HS goes better now. My humble goal is to have stable 10 cycles HS (20 catches?) both hands. It is really nice pattern ))
Slightly off topic - I remember you mentioning you were practicing the reverse cascade. Have you tried the RC with arms crossed? Keep them crossed, left hand doing the job of the right hand, right hand doing the job of the left. If you can juggle RC it's much easier than you think and it looks far more difficult than it is. Just takes a little while for your brain to realise it's the same as RC but the hands are swapped position and then it 'clicks'.
yes, reverse cascade for me is more easy than normal cascade )) but to do it crossed arms ??? I am not sure I am ready for this witchcraft )))
There's a momentary 'crosswires' in your brain when you first try but very quickly you can do it, if you can already do RC. Just jump straight in with three balls. Try to do three throws first. Your brain will make sense of it quickly. It's a good 'quick fix' when you're learning things that might take a little longer.. like shower/s and box.
Thanks. I guess I ought to try it just to make some middle level brain injury )) need to look for step by step tutorial on Net
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