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Walking Globe trick ideas requested
Most of you will remember that I asked for ideas for tricks on the walking globe a while ago. For those people who watched BYJOTY this year you will have seen some of where that has led. Bearing this list of tricks that I will post below in mind, what other ideas can people suggest? You will gain my thanks for any usable ideas which aren't just perform (Other prop) on walking globe.
Tricks in show:
Leap mount of walking globe (other mounts are available)
Jumping between two walking globes
Passing two hoops around the body in opposite directions
Skipping/Backwards Skipping/Crossed-Arms skipping on globe
Double skip dismount
Mounting a spinning globe and then staying on it by a) moving feet and b) not moving feet
Walking on two globes at one time
Performing a 1up 180 whilst on two globes
Under the leg juggle whilst on two globes
Turning 4 ball half shower whilst on globe
5 ball multiplex followed by 5 ball flash on two globes.
Tricks not in show but done elsewhere
Frog balance on globe
skipping whilst on 2 globes
jumping onto 2 spinning globes
no handed standing to sitting to standing
collecting 3 ball from floor whilst sitting (standing tried and not close)
one footed stand on globe (very difficult)
2 person 1 globe facing same way, facing each other and with one person turning
3 person 1 globe
4 person 1 globe (so far only for a few seconds)
moving globe by jumping
lying flat on globe
forward roll over globe
probably a bunch more I've forgotten
I'd like to see someone do a pommel horse circle on a walking globe
Is it maybe possible to use it like a trampoline and to slightly jump and fall into sit-jump back to stance?
Ouch. I think you're confusing walking globes with those Swiss inflatable aerobic balls... You'll find that walking globes are incredibly hard and sturdy, one would not want to fall with their buttocks on those...
Handstand with each hand on a different walking globe, as seen at Manchester BJC (photo on page 3 of The Catch magazine)
BJC2018 – A review
This review is my personal thoughts of the last few days and may be idiosyncratic.
We arrived in two cars as my car had two walking globes init as well as part of an aerial rig and therefore only the front two seats were useable. By the time we had set up the caravan and oldest sons tent (which he pitched about as far from us as was possible), it was time to eat. Then I played the yearly game of find the water point (why is it never marked on the maps?). Eventually we were all sorted and we looked around the site, chatting to friends as we went. At some point we went to the gym and Peter did an hours practice (added a time waster move with two globes) which like many of the practices at BJC had Peter struggle with the 1 up 180 with 3 balls, whilst stood on two globes. He could run it fine when not running the whole act. As soon as the music started and he tried it two minutes in to the routine it became much harder. After that we did a bit more chatting before an early night.
After breakfast we did another hour practice with Peter(changed 4 ball on one globe with an under the leg throw to 3 ball, 2 globe and under the leg throw). After that I went to add a workshop to the board (walking globe, naturally) and the fire alarm went off. No idea what set that off but at least it was a one off. At some point during the day Jamie Fletcher appeared with my new toy, a red and yellow Salerno ring. I haven’t had a lot of success with it as yet but should have plenty of practice time and space in the near future to improve. Spoke briefly to Clare about BYJOTY to learn that only 3 had entered to that point. Spoke shortly afterwards to Christopher and suggest that he practice the act that he had performed the month before and then enter BYJOTY. He is one of the students at Concrete Circus and whilst it is an act in development, the experience and feedback from BYJOTY would be good for him.Various chatting and food happened until the start of the Spinning@ show.
For me the first half was basically filler. Whilst there was some good technical skill most of the acts were too long or too repetitive. The best of them was the rope dart but that act could have been shortened and maybe some of the tricks could have gone above the audiences head. Of the other acts,the only comment I’m going to make is since when has clearing up after yourself been an act?
Our friends the Kelsalls arrived during the interval which pleased my daughter particularly (and us as well as we then didn’t have to explain the compere to her) and they got to see a really good second half. Starting with Ben Cornish. Ben was having a bad time with one trick but his performing experience showed through. We also had a really nice Bar Flair routine by Sam, a pleasing, smooth and aesthetic hoop routine by Alice, a very competent (and much improved since I last saw it) hulahoop act from Lisa and Callum and for me the stand out act in the show the cigar box routine by Luke? Cigar box routines are rare anyway but to show great skills with 3, 4 and 5 boxes made it much better. The final part of the act was a standard made better by music that worked well (even though the music was for the next act, which didn’t help them I’m sure).
After the show chatting happened and then I retrieved my juggling case from the sports hall, where it had sat for a day. I did some passing with my sons, including some feeding and switching who was feeding.Considering that Peter hadn’t done two count club passing before that evening,that was a great improvement.
Again we started with an hour practice with Peter (changed the skipping part to have two jumps rather than one). After that some more chatting happened before I attended Euaun’s combat workshop. That was good fun and the only workshop I attended other than the walking globe workshop that happened immediately afterwards. I was impressed with the turn out to the workshop as there must have been about 25 who attended. I worked with the beginners, many of whom learnt to walk on the globe, whilst Peter worked with those who were more advanced. Nobody was killed or seriously injured which counts as a result in my books and actually quite a few people came up to thank me afterwards and it wouldn’t surprise me if Lancaster University juggling group buys a globe.
At some point in the afternoon I played the one game I played all convention. I don’t remember its name.
The show in the evening was the Open Stage. Devil Stick Peet compered and did a small act between each act which meant he now dominates the show in my head. Other acts that impressed were (in no particular order) Antonia and Keith with their passing poi (I liked the characterisation), The odd ball juggling person (Daniel?), the professional looking poi double act and the duo acrobalance. There were other acts and none of them were bad, I just can’t remember them at this time.
I did a bit more juggling and passing afterwards and thus this became the convention I have done most juggling at for a few years.
Up early again for another practice session with Peter(added 5 ball multiplex on 2 globes). After that I generally chatted although I did meet up with Barbara at some point to discuss aerial rig bags. We had the debate of going on the bus or driving to Margate and went for the bus. Arriving at Dreamland (so called because that is where dreams go to die?) we hung around and watched some of the games. I took part in the balloon dog making one although felt hampered because I felt obliged to pick up the pump and then it got in the way when I was blowing up the balloon with my mouth. David did creditably well in the unicycle gladiators before being taken off his unicycle by someone hugging him and then suiciding. Shortly after that we left Dreamland(with its hall with more hole than roof) and went across the road to the beach and promenade. We stopped for a while at a large set of steps where David proved that he can bunny hop and Olivia Kelsall showed that she is an up and coming artist. We chatted to one of the local families and tried to convince them to watch the show later. Our evening meal was pizza at a sea front restaurant. The door to the place was particularly difficult to open and as we sat outside the restaurant eating we gained much amusement as other people(including staff) struggled to get in and out. After eating and walking closer to the show venue we also had an ice cream and eventually reached the venue before the vast majority of jugglers but only just. This did allow us to have seats in the centre of the theatre.
For me the show felt very safe. By which I mean that most of the acts were well known and had appeared in the BJC gala show before. Jon Udry was slick and his dry humour works for me. Ben had an interesting and novel act, perhaps not quite enough juggling for me but still enough to keep it interesting. Jan Himself was very professional in an almost predictably weird way. Paul Zenon’s magic routine had a lot of standard tricks which were all well presented. The end of his routine I thought was a somewhat bizarre staged event at first but apparently that wasn’t the case and one of the stage hands took it upon herself to interrupt his act. I hope someone apologised to Paul afterwards. The second half was equally skilled. Loz because performed a routine which was both well choreographed and well programmed, I always think that glow props take a little bit away from the performer and their skills but Loz was visible enough that we could see much of her tricks. Helena Berry has an act that isn’t very forgiving and the drops grew more towards the end but this didn’t take away from the act which was original and skilful. The Berlin Passing Girls did a great choreographed act and probably inspired the girls in the audience into believing they should juggle more. Steve Rawlings has been in at least 3 other BJC gala shows and is always a crowd favourite. For me the highlight of his act was the bit that I haven’t seen before with the mouth stick bottle and balloon. Matthew Tiffany as compere did a great job as compere and introduced a song that is fairly hard to sing if you have all the words written out in front of you.
On the way back from the show I learned that if Steve Rawlings does his knife gag in a show and you are 3 then you will still remember it 9.5 years later.
Guess what, we started the day with another practice session(changed the skipping so there was a slick turn before the second jump). After that I had a long conversation with Jonathan the Jester and probably chatted with others. After lunch I visited the traders with my daughter who needed anew peddle for her unicycle. Roger managed to sell her an upgraded set of peddles (pink) but not a new tyre (also pink) just because she had a pink unicycle stem and was wearing a pink cardigan doesn’t mean that she is obsessed with the colour. 2pm was tech rehearsal for BYJOTY so we all went over there. Originally there were going to be 8 acts but one of them was clearly not ready and will probably do a better job next year. After watching the tech run I thought that it would be very close indeed between 3 acts, the two twenty year olds and my 14 year old son. It turned out that I was correct. If you congratulated Peter and he didn’t say anything back to you it wasn’t because of you. For someone who is happy to stand up in front of people performing he isn’t great at conversation. After that we treated Peter to a meal of his choice, so we ended up going to Pizza Hut.
We didn’t do an hour of walking globe practice. Instead we slowly packed away and said our goodbyes. Peter bought some balls from Oddballs with his voucher forgetting a silver medal. Eventually we left for the journey home. Around about J30 my car engine started making funny noises and got gradually worse so I pulled over just before J28. Fortunately one of the Milton Keynes jugglers saw us and took Peter home (the other 3 were in the other car). I got to play the very slow game of waiting for Mr AA Man and eventually got home some 9.5 hours later. A sad end to an otherwise great BJC.
I noticed that in this review I forgot to thank all the people who made BJC happen. You are all wonderful people and I enjoy spending time with you each year.
I enjoyed the act. I generally enjoy acts that have characterisation and have been thought through and yours met both those criteria.
I have to say how Impressed I was with BYJOTY, esp the astounding walking globe. I have not been that gobsmacked since Sam Goodburn wheel walked his uni. Very very good stuff. As always it was great to catch up with Nigel.
Nice review Nigel!
Pssssst Orinoco... you aren't waiting for me really, are you? Mine is going to be a good few days yet at least...
I also went to the BJC in Canterbury and wrote about my experiences!
Check out all of the action here: https://www.juggle.org/british-juggling-convention-2018-review/
p.s I enjoy reading other peoples reviews and experiences, add to the discussion with your own mini reviews!
Interesting that you tried to attend the preventing injury workshop. Frederique and myself were the only ones there unfortunately. Ben did it anyway and we found it useful and informative.
I am very surprised that so few people went along.
Fortunately (or unfortunately...) any injuries I recieve which prevent me from juggling are normally due to things outside of juggling (cycling accidents, mis-handling of tools etc...) or avoidable impacts from juggling combat.
I was very interested to hear what Ben said and would definately go if the chance came up again. It just didn't work out for me this time.
Ejuggle appears to be down at the moment :(
I'm hoping to finish my effort this evening (probably late evening).
Thanks Jon, as always I really enjoyed that.
Very interesting to see how you always have a completely different juggling experience to me: a rare attendant to shows or workshops and a frequent attendant at the lazy juggler bar!
My main thoughts / feedback / witty or non witty repartee in no particular order or coherency are as follows:
- Margate had excellent fish and chips away from the main strip. We skipped dreamland and the games completely and played adventure golf (curse you Andy Fraser for taking my title) and really enjoyed our day out and nearby Fish.
- I really enjoyed the gala show but thought too many of the acts were a little similar. It was probably the least balanced gala show I had seen for a while. I love Tiff, Jon and Steve, but all in one show with a talking magician and a talking Ben was a lot of wordy performances. Helena was really quite good though.
- Was the stage hand who interrupted Paul Zenon really not a poor acting planned part of the act? we couldn't tell
- Monte food = excellent. Much better when he has a full kitchen and helpers to work with. Rarely needed to leave site for sustenance other than drinkable water
- Lack of flushable toilets...at one point I think there were only 2 working on site. Thank goodness the portaloos turned up
- Waffles are not an acceptable breakfast. Why can we not get decent coffee anywhere ever at a BJC?
- Played two long games of Suburbia and Stone age with Brook, Cameron and Danny. Stone age seemed to be more popular. Also played a bit of seven wonders duel with various people. This is my latest favorite two player game of choice. Also Danny needs banning from all board games on account of being too good.
- Generally the organisation was a little lax. The volunteer board didn't seem to exist and on inquiring how I could help I was told 'go and see if anyone is on badge control now and you can fill in'. Well I did and a couple of hours later I was lucky to be replaced as the person after me had no relief after 2 hours. A simple printed schedule people can sign up to is so much easier.
- Sebs workshop on 3 in one hand scissor manipulations was great
- I felt really sorry for the unicycle hockey guys for pushing my patience. The Scheduling as you mentioned was awful but it wasn't their fault and I was temporarily very angry until I thought about this
- Love being able to drive to BJCs and bring my double duvet to camp with. Feel like a big southern pansy, but no regrets!
- I need to pass more with different people. I did no > 2 person passing other than 'Spider' and mostly passed with the same people. Made some progress on Funky 9 though. Also amazed at the number of people who can now acceptably run Holy Grail. A few years back this was a pipe dream and now it seems almost common. Need to regress a few years, quit my job and move to Cambridge to keep up.
"- Waffles are not an acceptable breakfast. Why can we not get decent coffee anywhere ever at a BJC?"
From which conjunction I conclude that you think decent coffee is an acceptable breakfast. I agree, but enjoyed a couple of veggie Full Montes in the week too. Seeing Bob Fromcanada around made me miss his great coffee stall that was at EJC.
I have never understood why people for whom coffee is so important cannot bring along the means to provide their own. SMH
I could... but given my campsite was at least 5 minutes walk from the main communal / juggling area, and that I would have to whip out a camp stove, boil my own water and bring my own fancy cafetiere in the first place this seems a rather extravagant means to an end.
Much easier to rant on the internet than self provide a simple practical solution. That being said I am sure there is a commercial opportunity there given the success of EJC ventures.
I could being the Leeds convention filter machine along, but it’s not PATed so insurance mght be an issue...
I do, thanks! Aeropress and hand grinder. But there is a bootstrap problem in that some people - not me, cough cough - need a coffee before they can be organised enough to make coffee.
Should young Circomedia/NCCA/other circus schools are available graduates be allowed to compete in BYJOTY?
This was an interesting question raised in the BJC business meeting. Are they discouraging younger, less experienced performers from getting involved? This came about because this year's BYJOTY competition featured Circomedia graduate Eilidh Sela who picked up the Judge's Choice Award (although not the BYJOTY title decided by popular vote) with a very high quality, very slick & very professional hoop act.
Various suggestions were made to deal with this: excluding graduates, dividing entrants up into categories etc. none of which felt right to me. If it's just about making a fair competition I feel I'm quite capable of deciding who is good for their age/for their length of time juggling/for their level of training so long as I'm given that information.
The main reason I don't want to see young graduates or soon to be graduates excluded is because I think it is a great benefit for young kids to see accomplished performers closer to their own age. I think it is more motivating & exciting to see what they could be like in a couple of years rather than what they could be in 15-20 years. I think young kids are more likely to relate to & interact with another teenager/early 20-something than they are with someone much older. It would be a great shame to take that opportunity away from them.
I was at the meeting when this came up because it was obvious everyone had a strong opinion and a debate would take up the rest of the day so I kept my mouth shut.
Personally, I believe the format is right as it is. There are nowhere near enough entrants to start splitting into categories and you would still end up wanting to award a "british young juggler of the year title" so the problem wouldn't go away. A younger competitor, say 11 or 12 has ten years to keep trying and learning from previous attempts. That should be more than enough time for a keen (very) young juggler to improve there skills.
It sounds a bit harsh but I don't like the idea of BYJOTY turning into "cutest kid" competition because that takes away any serious prestige of the title. I vote on the merit of the act, last year that was Max (?) the young diabolist because his was the combination of the most entertaining and skillful act in my opinion. His age didn't come into the equation and it didn't need to.
A "most improved" award would encourage entrants to keep entering each year but judging it would be a nightmare.
I don't have a problem with graduates participating, if they have dedicated a portion of their life to be better performers then good for them. They will have sacrificed other education paths so an improved chance of winning BYJOTY seems like a reasonable reward.
In my opinion thinking that someone should be excluded through training would be bad. Yes Eilidh had a very nice hoop routine that showed the polish you would expect from someone going through Circomedia training but other Circomedia students have entered in previous years and I don't think that any have yet won. (I could be wrong but my list of previous winners in my head doesn't bring one to mind).
You then have to start asking where do you join the line? Eilidh is 20 and is a 2nd year Circomedia student. She has presumably had some training before that but was it as part of a group or ad hoc? Both Peter who won and Christopher (who did S-Staff) have been part of Concrete Circus for a number of years. As such they are experienced in performing in front of a large audience (they performed at MKJC last year for example). They also have had encouragement from seasoned performers and others and advice on how to improve their acts. In the case of Peter, he has been working on that skill (amongst others) for roughly 7 years.
(2cts:) On many chess tournaments, there's rating prizes, so that many, also not so good players have a chance to win a prize (even though it remains hard). Or also, after a few rounds played in a qualification part, new groups are formed (like group A level and group B level) to seperately play out for the top A level prize and for the lower B level prize; with the same intention of not only the very best winning prizes. So maybe categories of participants for different prize values or different kinds of prizes could help to sort such asymmetry in skills out. (roughly: let there be something for everyone, be it prizes, groups, categories, chances on sth, anything, many consolation prizes \second prizes for girls, for youngest or best among youngest, for furthest journey to the event location, for most original, most skilled, most appealing performance - the top prize and holy grail remaining the BYJOTY) [but I feel highly incompetent on this, just hope to maybe deliver a little mosaique stone to the discussion]
I have no problem with people who've had extensive training entering the competition.
There might be an argument for excluding professional performers and keeping it as an amateur competition, if the goal is to produce new talent?
Perhaps saying that if you make your living from performance, you shouldn't be entering? But I'm not sure if any full-time performers have entered in the past anyway?
As said, if the competition isn't broken, don't fix it. If it looks like it's not achieving its aims, then perhaps tweak it then.
Should young Circomedia/NCCA/other circus schools are available graduates be allowed to compete in BYJOTY?
By which I mean yes.
I just can't read.
Or alternatively, in answer to the question, should they be excluded, please see my previous answer.
I’ve been saying for years that I want to see more training for byjoty entrants, not less.
I want to see acts that have had development, direction, advice from outside the performers head. I want to see acts that have had the cruft cut, I want to see acts that have been practiced, thought about, and refined.
Ok so some people get that st a formal training school, some may get that from people at their local club. There may be more that we as a community can do to help young jugglers be the best that they can be!
At one point, the IJA had a mentoring program for young jugglers preparing an act for the juniors, and that isn’t a terrible idea!
More training less making it up on your own please!
What were the arguments for not allowing them to compete? I've not heard any here. I'm amazed that it was even brought up.
I don't know the guy who raised the issue so I can't be certain of his intention but my understanding was he felt that it wasn't a fair competition because a young kid who hasn't had any formal training doesn't stand a chance against someone who has (although as pretty much everyone has pointed out, this is not the case).
I've never set foot in a boxing ring, I don't think I have any right to think I have a shot at a title belt.
Everyone has the option to put the work in. I think the idea that more training/work/thought/preparation = success is something that needs to be reinforced.
The person who raised it at the BJC meeting was under the impression that BYJotY is a kid's event. Therefore they thought it was not right that those who are not kids/overly trained should take part. Either he or someone else made that point that as a trained engineer, he would feel that it was inappropriate to enter a kid's engineering competition.
Then the discussion went on for far too long into a back and forth between "I don't really think it's very fair to single out Circomedia students" to "Well, maybe we generally could consider dropping the age limit" whereas I would have preferred a swift "You are entitled to your opinion, but many disagree, and it's up to the organiser of the event"
 my personal opinion (above that what I tried to write above) is that whoever organises such an event should be allowed to run it however they want until such a point as they lose the support of the community (which, for example, would be a reasonable consequence of announcing that noone named David is allowed to compete). It's then up to the previous organiser and the convention organiser to decide if the event will take place, and who/how should organise it/it should be organised.
Seriously? People are questioning whether being young and British is not a satisfactory qualification? Fucking bonkers. If you're gonna run a competition based on excellence in a given field, you should be gleefully embracing that excellence. And if it's really a problem and the poor lickle beggars are being intimidated by the slightly bigger, slightly less younger buggers, then split the competition into British young jugglers and British younger amateur jugglers who haven't been to circus school, although BYAJWHBTCSotY is a bit of a gobfull I'll admit.
The thing about competition is that it is fundamentally elitist, about ranking people on some scale or other, which is why you typically have one winner and many losers. If there is a worry that potential entrants may be frightened off by, you know, talent, then why not just ban talent and start dishing out a plastic gold medal to everyone and be done with it?
Somebody needs to decide whether it's a competition or a parade.
Hi my name is Simeon I am 9 years old. Last week I attended the circusworks youth festival with no fit state circus.I got to perform in the gala show juggling 5 balls.I didn't feel nervous at all there was about 100 people in the audience.I've done 750 catches with 5 balls, with 6 balls I can do half shower, async and sync fountain I am also learning a 9,3 half shower I can do a 7,5 with inside 7s I am learning a 4 ball mills mess and also 5,3,4,mills mess. One time I did 7 balls for 35 catches and I'm learning a 7 ball half shower I've also tried to do site swaps with 7 such as 9,6,6 and 8,6,7, and (8x6)* with 5 balls I'm learning how to do (8x4)(44). I have performed at the NEC in Birmingham, in my school Assembly and at my Circus school.
I am a self taught juggler, been juggling for 3 years now This past year I have had juggling lessons at the Circus school.
I love all this juggling.
Bye for now
Hello! Are you Tracey posting on behalf of Simeon, or are you Simeon posting with the account that Tracey asked to set up for you? I can change your username to Simeon if you'd like? that would be less confusing for everyone!
That's an impressive list of achievements there, how much of that progress was made before you started circus school?
Hi I am Simeon posting on my mum Tracey's account.
Could you change the name to Simeon Please.
I taught myself to juggle up to 5 balls but could only do a few tricks that I made up myself. I had no idea of site swaps before I started my juggling lessons. In my juggling lessons I was helped with my timing, posture and to understand site swaps.
Done. You'll need to use Simeon as your username the next time you log on.
What were the tricks you made up yourself?
"You'll need to use Simeon as your username the next time you log on."
How's he going to know that without logging on to see the message? Which he won't be able to do if he doesn't know that his username has changed because he hasn't seen the message...
I expect you've considered that and informed him by some other means as well, though, Orin.
I could only do tricks with up to four balls. Like half shower, sync and Asynchronous but I didn't know the names of the patterns before I started having lessons at Circus school.
I would have liked to see you at the Circusworks festival but unfortunately whilst my youth circus were there (Concrete Circus), I was at the British Juggling Convention instead. Which circus school do you attend? It might be good for you to attend juggling conventions if you don't already as that can provide a lot of positive stimulation.
Hi Nigel I remember seeing concrete circus last week. I attend Circus Mash in Birmingham for my lessons.
My mum is going to take me to lestival this year and the EJC next year. I can't wait.
If you are at Circus Mash then hopefully Tom can teach you lots of great skills. If you are looking at close juggling conventions then Milton Keynes Juggling Convention in November is just as good as Lestival (I'd say better but Jay would want to pick a fight). You get to see Concrete Circus performing in the show there as well.
Thanks for letting me know about the Milton Keynes festival. It would be nice to see Jay again I remember him.
I go to Toms juggling club but only in the school holidays at it starts and finishes to late on a school night. We talk about our new juggling balls and use each other's to juggle with. We like to talk and try out new tricks together.
I am teaching my mum how to juggle, she can do about 12 throws and catches 3 ball cascade. My Dad is not as good as my mum yet.
I'm flattered that you claim to remember me ... but alas I may have to see you in person before I can recall where we've met, apologies.
Anyway, that dreadful old #MKJC won't happen again for about a billion years, you'll be long dead before it comes around, whereas Lestival! is in just three weeks' time! I'm pretty sure it's on the 5th May this year and I shall be there all day, so come along and re-introduce yourself to me.
Whatever you do, make it your business to immerse yourself in as many conventions and events as you possibly can, so that you can nurture and grow that fantastic talent you have whilst you are still
annoyingly precociously young ;-)
For several years now I have been suggesting a juggling competition for older jugglers (my working name was BODGE-oty). If the BJC doesn't happen next year (or even if it does) then it might be good to have it at EJC. I'm working on the rules and would like some input from the civilized (and possibly older) community of JugglingEdge. Here are my starting ideas, please comment on them.
1) The juggler entering must be in at least their 50th year.
2) The act must use equipment that is intrinsic to the performance rather than distracting from the performance e.g. glow props that obscure skill or lack thereof.
3) The act may not have been part of a professional performance or a juggling convention show within the last year.
4) The act must be suitable for a cabaret spot or juggling show.
5) Speaking acts may be no longer than 8 minutes and non-speaking acts 5 minutes.
The maximum score is 100 with marks being awarded in the following categories:
Presentation of artist (15): Does the costume suit the act? Are the props giving a professional image etc.
Characterisation (25): Does the performer maintain their character throughout the performance? Does the character fit with the rest of the act (music, props, clothing etc.)?
Technique (25): Is the performer technically proficient in their chosen skill? Is the routine clean? Do they handle drops well? Are any of the skills presented innovative?
Performance (35): Does the show fit together? Are the audience engaged?
If the performer over runs their allotted time they lose 1 mark every 3 seconds.
None of this is set in stone but all arguments against a particular rule or inclusion of a different rule should be supported with a relevant and coherent reasoned statement.
Some of the reasoning for the above:
Age limit. This had to be set at some point and I wanted it to be restrictive but not too restrictive. 50 seemed like an appropriate cut off as there are quite a few above that age at BJC.
Equipment. Circus is all about spectacle but juggling is not just about that and so I want the acts to demonstrate their skills.
Not performed recently. I want to see act development but from the perspective of experience. A regularly performed act is not a challenge but developing something different requires much more.
Suitability. I don't want to just see technical skill. Anyone who has been juggling long enough will have developed a whole set of technical skills but it is how they are applied that is more important.
Time Limit. A comedy or character act takes longer to develop than a straight performance to music but talking acts have a tendency to push the talking at the expense of the skills. The longer time than BYJOTY but with the penalty imposed for going over seems to me to help with both these aspects.
Marking. I want to see good, well thought out acts and pitched the scoring roughly in the area of how I look at an act and decide whether I would book them. These numbers can be tweaked.
Not sure about your rules. All seems a bit old fashioned/out of touch. Why not just have an over 50s do-what-you-like?
I'm also confused by the rules. I do not understand what 2) means, and why do talking acts get more time? Can one do a non talking act, say a word, and thereby extend his time for 3 minutes? What are the requirements to meet 4)? Isn't any act that is shorter than 8 minutes suitable for a juggling/cabaret show?
The things you don't want to see you can discourage with your scoring/judging, boring acts get less points. But it is hard to turn them away beforehand
The best way to find out if this is a good idea is to talk to 50+ jugglers until you have 3-5 willing participants!
2) Means that I don't want the act to be all about the technology rather than the skill. Whilst acts can incorporate technology (e.g. Eugenius Nil) I don't want the audience to be thinking about how well the programming matches the music or what pretty pictures the prop makes instead of what the performer is doing.
A talking act is one where the artist talks for a significant part of the act in a way that is consistent with the character portrayed in the act. I am aware that this takes longer to establish a rapport with the audience and therefore thought that the act needed more time. It should be the call of the judges whether the act is a talking act and the penalty clause is there if they think someone is just taking advantage.
4) Whilst an act that is under 8 minutes might be suitable for a cabaret show I know that many of the segments of my show that are under 8 minutes are not suitable because the are constructed for a different purpose (entertaining kids, re-enactment audiences etc). The act should be designed with the possibility of being performed on a stage with size and height restrictions.
One of the things that has inspired me to start this competition is that I want more acts for Milton Keynes Juggling Convention. In general the type of act that is suitable for a convention isn't the same as what the majority of professional performers do. (which in my experience tends towards the 45 minute show, walkabout, workshop rather than cabaret).
In what way are the rules out of touch? (especially when we are talking about older jugglers) Is it because they are slightly prescriptive? Actually having some rules makes a show easier to construct.
dunno ( I know little to nothing about performing, but am +50yo, so just my 2cts: ) .. why exclude the pros? ( rule "3)" ) .. sounds a bit rigid at first read, but on the other hand thought through rating-criteria. Or simply have a jury rate, at each jury-member's own criteria? .. age limit could maybe also be 45yo? ..
The idea sounds good, though, (why not also have that for e.g. minor 14-15yo?) but what would keep a senior, who meets all those rules and criteria, from taking part in any regular (``normal´´, non-senior) contests (too)?
.. and yet, .. as a counter example, .. what if a 60yo fellow shows up on stage and, in an open stage manner, just flashes 11 balls or qualifies 10, bends and walks offstage again getting tons of applause, .. would he be ``offending´´ that cabaret-or-juggling-show rule and not get any rating points after those criteria?
My original age criteria was 40 and then when I thought about it a bit more and when looking at the people who attended the BJC this year I thought that there may be too many entries if the bar was set that low. The number isn't that rigid just needs to be there.
The concept originated after watching British Young Juggler of the Year a few times and seeing many young acts put technical skills before performance. For those who don't attend the BYJOTY competition this is held annually at the British Juggling Convention and is open to anyone under 21 who is British. It has had falling numbers for the last two - three years but that is a reflection on the total number of people attending the convention.
I'm not trying to exclude the pros. I'm trying to get new acts from people or old acts that would need to be practised again. There has been a tendency at one day conventions in the UK to have the same few acts appear at most conventions (often with the same act at each show). I'd like to see a wider range available to convention show bookers (ok me but it will help others).
If it is a judged competition with ten acts and three judges, the only people happy at the end are the people who won and the two judges who out-voted the third.
A very good point.
With BYJOTY you obviously have the audience award that rewards the most popular act and the judges awards that reward the acts that fit the judges criteria. From what I can determine from what my son received from entering the competition this year the judges award was more important in an immediate way (voucher for Oddballs, T-shirt) the other silver winner getting the same size voucher and a bag that might have contained something. Peter along with the title received a cuddly toy dragon and a gold BJC pass as BYJOTY winner.
You could argue that the title is more important than anything else and that should be awarded by a populist vote and I would like to hear opinions on this. I believe that the IJA awards are judged and no-one seems particularly upset about this (I could be wrong I have never been to the IJA and my knowledge is based on what I have read on forums over the years). I disagree that the only people who will be happy when entering are the judges and winner. As a convention booker I am looking to book acts. I don't want to book the same act as everyone else and so I often ask someone other than the winner of BYJOTY to be in MKJC show (e.g. last year I asked two acts from BYJOTY, neither were the winner, one appeared in the show). This year I have also asked an act that wasn't the winner.
"I believe that the IJA awards are judged and no-one seems particularly upset about this (I could be wrong I have never been to the IJA and my knowledge is based on what I have read on forums over the years)."
At Derby BJC in 2004 I had the idea for the BYJOTY show. That summer I went to the IJA convention and took part in the stage competition. I was so upset with the judging process and the outcome that I specifically designed the rules of the first BYJOTY to avoid the same thing happening in Perth the next year.
My point being: you are 100% wrong on this subject, and the main BYJOTY title being decided by audience vote is the evidence of this!
Luke is correct in saying tthat some people have been upset about the results of IJA judging. You are correct in saying some peope are not upset. As a spectator I have not always agreed with the judges decisions and also not agreed with other disgruntled spectators. I think upsetness is inevitable in any judging process, including the populist vote. The IJA also has a "People's Choice" award which may or may not be awarded to one of the judges selections.
Watching over the years I can see that the IJA responds by tweaking the process.
IMHO if you don't have a good reason to judge don't engage in the hastle. You can still have the rules and let the interested spectators decide.
To be clear, you are saying he was correct about something he didn't write. He said "no-one is upset" not "some people are not upset". My first point was that, yes, of course some people are not upset... but in designing the rules for BYJOTY I tried to reduce the number of people who are upset.
In the case of those taking part in the show, it's a lot more easy to take it personally when three judges decide you aren't going to win. It's a lot easier to take when the audience collectively decides. Yo might not be the favourite of any of the judges, but you're probably going to get some percentage of the audience votes.
It isn't the perfect solution, but everyone is involved, not just the five people in the show and the three judges. It allows everyone to express what they like about the show. Nobody is passive.
The IJA People's Choice is not for the an act in the stage championships. It's open for any juggler at the convention who people liked for whatever reason. In 2004 I voted for Komei Aoki, who only took part in the juniors competition.
I would say the fewer rules the better (for the first year at least) if you’re overwhelmed by entrants you can refine it in future years.
I agree that 50 feels about right as a lower bound (40 is too low) and I agree about the “must not have been performed for an audience in the last year” (to stop Steve Rawlings turning up and storming it with the routine he’s been doing for 30years) and I agree that there should be some form of time limit, although any complexity around what types of act get what length of time seems unnecessary - “no longer than 8mins” should be enough for anyone.
I don’t care about any of the other rules, or judging criteria, I think “popular vote” is both easier than judging and more satisfying, and if your selfish aim is to find someone to book for MK then it’s probably more relevant than what the judges think anyway.
To say that it is just my selfish aim to get acts is perhaps a little misleading on my part. Something that encourages 'proper acts' may percolate outside of the competition itself. For example BYJOTY if it doesn't fade may get more acts rather than just people who do tricks. Maybe older jugglers who generally sit around and chat will be more motivated to practice something. Who knows?
With limited input so far it seems like public vote is preferred to judges. What about feedback? What about prizes?
I have the feeling that most older jugglers wouldn't care much about vouchers to buy new props as they probably rooms full of the stuff. On the other hand would something like a bottle of good whisky be appropriate?
Is the BJC dying a slow death?
I've not been for a few years so I was quite surprised to hear how few are expected to attend this year. Fewer than half the amount of people that used to go about 10 years ago.
Is this a sign of a fall in the numbers of young jugglers taking up the hobby or are there just more events dividing up the pool of likely attendees?
BJC numbers are always down when it's in a "far corner" of the UK. Of course, we're well down from the early 90s heyday, but that's been true for years.
The last 2 with figures for attendance on https://thebritishjugglingconvention.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=BJC_History (both in Darton) are over 900. That's pretty good. I'm sure Perth will have been well down on that, and I guess it makes sense for Canterbury to budget on a low figure too. We'll see how it goes, I guess....
I wouldn't have called Kent a far flung corner. Not compared with Yorkshire. I suppose I'd need to know more about the concentration of jugglers around the country but I would have assumed London and Bristol to be hotspots.
Anyway I hope you're right because 500 seems a small number to me.
Where are you getting 500 from? *If* it's their budgeting figure, that's presumably a worst case scenario, and therefore it wouldn't be unreasonable to *hope for* 600-700. Dunno, I'm guessing...
From the horse's mouth. Budgeting figure is even lower.
Good to know the last couple were around 900. That's a good number.
When people are deciding between BJC or Catch it can't be a good thing.
There has to be a number where it is no longer viable in its current form.
Mind you, under 500 and we could do it at Hulver farm
British Balls Up anyone?
There are no numbers on that site for attendance for the last 2 (anyone know?). 900s were 2014 & 2015.
Well, here's hoping...
> When people are deciding between BJC or Catch it can't be a good thing.
Why not? I see that it's a risky situation, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong. It seems to me that the BJC does not have a right to be pre-eminent, it needs to earn that status.
I meant it can't be a good thing for the BJC. It might well be a good thing for juggling.
It already seems quite hard to get people to commit to running one, if numbers decline who's going to take the risk of making a big loss?
Maybe both can be successful?
Anyway, come to BJC and eat at Montegriffo's.....
I wouldn't have called Kent a far flung corner. Not compared with Yorkshire
Spoken like a southerner ;-)
I'm currently a southerner, living in Bristol. But I'd still rather travel to Yorkshire rather than Kent! There's this annoying thing called London in the way, which adds stress and considerable time, whatever method of transport you use.
I will make the effort anyway, because I want to go to the BJC. But I can see why anyone in the Midlands or above would think twice.
Canterbury is more than twice as far from the centre of the UK population as Darton is.
Where's the centre of the UK population?
About one in seven live in London, must be getting on for a third of the population are South of Watford.
From a comment on an Ordnance Survey page: "Yes, one of our Twitter followers suggested this too. It’s not something we’ve worked out ourselves, but @MurrayData says that using a population weighted approach centre of GB is approximately 433924E 309573N (Measham Rd Swadlincote Leics.)"
Yeah, erm, Swadlincote's in Derbys not Leics - only just, but Derbys nevertheless. Not a good start, although if I had to guess the GB population centre I'd probably go for somewhere not too far from Swad.
Also, Swad is mostly an unmitigated shithole, but then that probably makes it a good representative of some sort of median of the British population. I have worked a lot in Swad.
These Swad facts brought to you by Cedric Lackpot, who has nothing of value to add to this thread, but knows a damn thing or two about Swadlincote!
The main reason I won’t be returning to the BJC again soon, and the reason why I don’t recommend it to European jugglers when they ask me about it, is the time of year and the accompanying high chances of bad weather.
That’s the reason I’m not going again this year. The better time of year is also the main reason I’m going to the Catch festival this year.
If the BJC was held in July, I’d probably go every year.
That's rather a silly reason not to recommend it, Luke. Yes, some BJCs have had awful weather, but plenty have had good weather, even the ones held in the far flung North. Also, last time I went to the Lakes in the summer we had really quite a lot of rain.
There's no guarantee of good weather at any time of year, although it's likely to be a lot warmer in the summer of course. I'd be more inclined to talk about the shows, workshops, halls and general vibe of the BJC than the weather - if nothing else, to avoid becoming a national stereotype!
Not, it's not a silly reason. It's a major factor for me, and judging from the feedback I get from non-UK jugglers who visit the BJC, it's also the main complaint they have.
In Europe, if a convention is held in the winter, camping isn't expected. It's an indoor sleeping convention, with entire sports halls or other rooms set aside for people to lay out mats and sleeping bags. If the convention is late spring to early autumn, camping becomes an option. The BJC insists that camping is an option, even when the chances of bad weather is worse than good weather.
For example, Berlin held its convention in September last year, due to some date conflicts, and everyone expected the weather to be fine. But it wasn't. It was waaay colder than it is in May or June, the normal date for the event, and it got dark way earlier. So now the convention has moved back to the summer again.
Just so you know, the shows, workshops, halls and vibes at the BJC are no better than other national conventions in Europe. There is nothing to recommend them above conventions at better times of year and with better weather than the BJC. The chances of bad weather in March in Scotland though? Camping on the top of a mountain in Yorkshire in April, with tents being blown away? No thanks!
Rain isn't so much of a problem if the temperature isn't too bad. Just the difference from March to May was enough for it not to be too stressful for us to camp at Bungay. But the BJC that same year? Nope, we got a B&B.
Canterberry in April:
Cumbria in July:
If you are wondering about reduced numbers of people at the BJOC, I think the comparison you want is Perth, Scotland, in March and anywhere in the UK in July.
Perth in March:
Average high 6.4°C
Average low 2.1°C
Canterbury in July:
Average high 22.8°C
Average low 12.9°C
Penrith (closest city to Appleby) in July:
Average high 19.4°C
Average low 10.5°C
Conclusion: if the BJC was in July, anywhere in the UK, I'd probably go and be okay to camp every year.
I may not agree with a whole lot of what Luke has to say - and I'm pretty confident he's perfectly cool to be disagreed with - but I confidently and assertively agree that the climate is not a silly reason.
And it's certainly nowhere near as silly as saying that the British climate is unpredictable at all times of year, and therefore implying that the probability of seasonal or non-seasonal weather is immaterial regardless of the time in question!
There are a number of good reasons to hold BJCs at or around Easter - the weather is not one of them.
I have to agree, the damn weather and having to camp is always a factor that is lurking in the background, taking the edge off my anticipation. I am not the best camper - can't sleep well in a tent, so this year for the first time we have opted for the local Premier Inn. It does feel like a cop out but seeing as my hot water bottle is going to the IJC I couldn't face a week sleeping in a cold tent.
That being said the British EJC in 2019 will be in August and I am hoping that it will be considerably warmer and with little rain! Newark is only 50 miles from Swad so not far off being pretty central and we really really hope that we can entice as many jugglers, hoopers, diabolists, aerialists etc to it as we can.
As it is in Britain I am hoping to attract not only all the wonderful people from all over the world who come to EJC but all of those Brits that have never been to one before.
I know there is another EJC before it (2018 - Azores) but I am just slipping it in now so it's in your subconscious!!
PS the EJA are looking for a team for 2020, so if you know someone who might be interested in finding out more about organising a huge event like the EJC then send an email to email@example.com
Let me ponder my BJC camping history:
2000 - so wet I never pitched my tent, and slept in the car instead.
2001 - some nice weather, but freezing cold one night and as it pouring with rain on the last day, it was the least pleasant final day of a convention ever.
2002 - after two years of terrible weather, I skipped the BJC completely! I went to the Israeli convention instead. The weather was amazing.
2003 - didn't camp, got a room at the university instead. People complained about ice on their tents. This was Brighton, not Scotland, so the location isn't always the most important thing.
2004 - performer, and was provided accommodation.
2005 - performer, and was provided accommodation.
2006 - performer, and was provided accommodation.
2007 - performer, and was provided accommodation.
2008 - performer, and was provided accommodation.
2009 - got myself a B&B, but as this was a summer convention, I would probably have been happy to camp.
2010 - BJC switched back to a winter convention again, and I decided to skip it again.
2011 to 2013 - nope.
2014 - borrowed my parents' camper van.
2015 - camper van not an option, didn't want to camp in the same place where the previous year peoples' tents had blown away.
2016 - nope.
2017 - B&B again.
Ah look, I literally only camped at a BJC once! The only reason I kept going was being either by paying for accommodation myself, or being offered non-camping options for performing various acts in various shows.
Premier Inn is not a cop out, it's the only way sensible adults will keep returning to a camping convention in the winter/early spring!
This seems to be a wall of evidence that you have very little experience of camping at a BJC, but didn't enjoy it one time 7 years ago.
Doesn't seem fair to the British scene to spend so much time and energy discouraging others on that basis Luke.
It's not just the camping. It's the general wet and cold atmosphere. In 2009 the convention was in the summer in Norfolk. I went to the FIRE SHOW. I sat outside and watched the fire show and it wasn't the most miserable moment of my entire year. Do you know how amazing that felt? A BJC fire show which wasn't utterly unbearable to watch. Wow. And in the evenings we were hanging out on the grass between the gyms. The renegade show tent didn't need space heaters. Nobody was wrapped up for winter for no reason at all except the sun had gone down. We could watch the Sharpe brothers do their street show, just outside one day, and it wasn't remarkable that the wind wasn't so bad they couldn't do any diabolo tricks.
Then my next BJC, when hosting the games, I had to make announcements that people's tents were blowing away, and they should go check on them before we left for the gala show.
It's not about my camping experience, it's about having a relaxing time at a convention.
Again, the Berlin convention miscalculated with holding it in September last year, and the very next year it is back to June, based ENTIRELY on the weather and how soon it got dark. How did it take them one year to learn the lesson but the BJC keeps at it?
I hope that after the Catch this year and the EJC next year, people will finally learn, and the BJC can be a summer convention from now on. Or at least a late-May to late-Augst convention.
It is true the BJC fire show is consistently unbearable to watch, but I have never attributed that fact to the weather.
*Tries to donate a fiver to The Edge, for that comment*
*Finds out there's a minimum £10 donation*
It wasn't *that* funny. Cash at BJC do ya?
As others have said, you've hardly ever camped at a BJC so I don't think you're really qualified to comment. I've camped at BJCs since 1993 (Birmingham) with a few gaps and I've never felt particularly cold, been woken up by bad weather or had a leaky tent. It has *been* cold, I agree, but with decent clothing and a good sleeping bag that's not a problem. Yes, it can be cold & wet outside but I've also sat outside on the grass in a T-shirt some years. In fact the one time I've been flooded out was at EJC Ptuj (which was the very definition of wet and cold and miserable).
Of course the BJC could be in the summer. It has been, in Norwich, after plans for the usual time fell through, as you said, and it was lovely and warm. It could be any time from late May (but don't you dare schedule it against Bungay, otherwise I shall be *really* scathing). It could be at Christmas. But someone has to stand up and volunteer to run it at that time and this bid has to be voted through at the business meeting - you know how this works. They'll then have to contend with competing with other festivals (including non-juggling ones), university exams and all the others things that may not have such impact in late March/early April/Easterish, availability of venues not in the Easter holidays and lots of other factors.
There's no point writing 'people will actually learn' in the hope it will happen - it will take someone to stand up and come up with a concrete plan for a summer BJC. As you know, there's no British Juggling Association running BJCs <nails lid firmly back on big can of worms> just whoever stands up and volunteers a year of their life.
I think we have an interesting situation this year with Catch! which is kind of an alternative BJC-ish thing in the summer with great acts in the show. This may well prove that a summer BJC-ish festival could work, in which case I look forward to many more bids of this kind.
No, I think I am qualified to comment. The point of my comment is that the bad weather has been the deciding factor in why I decided not to go to the BJC. And not just once. After York and Cardiff, I didn't go back to the BJC, and went somewhere else instead. Same in 2010. Same in 2015. Same in 2017.
The people who are happy to camp in the ice/snow/wind/rain/etc of the UK in March/April? You don't have to worry about them. But what about all the people whose first BJC was Derby in 2004? How many people didn't bother coming back the next year? Even though I didn't camp, I drove home to Newcastle with two people who did, and the stop in a pub on the way home for dinner, and sitting in front of the fire, was the first time they had felt properly warm and comfortable for the previous five days.
The people who don't go to the BJC are the ones qualified to talk about why they don't go, and are 100% correct about the reasons the numbers might be down... at least for the number they represent.
The people who DO go to the BJC, by the fact they can cope with the stress of bad weather, are not qualified to talk about the reasons the people who don't go aren't going.
I've gone to the BJC once (I think 2015?). I had to sleep inside on the last night, it was a rainy festival.
I'm going again this year, very happy to bring my campervan!
That's a good point, no one likes going anywhere when it's cold and sodden. Why don't they hold the festival mid-summer?
The historic reason for the BJC being at Easter rather than in the summer is that performers are much more likely to not be working at that time. Whether as a performer in the show who charges less than their normal fee or as an attending performer who doesn't want to miss out on the lucrative summer months Easter makes much more sense. Touring circus often runs from after Easter until sometime in Autumn, so the timing would help them to attend. Nowadays BJC does not have as many professional entertainers and so this is not as good an argument as before. It still might mean that it is difficult to get the best professionals, although Rosie seems to be showing that a summer convention with enough funding can do that anyway.
If you get 2,000 people at the convention, you can pay professionals to be there. It’s how the EJC works. There is no reason a BJC in the summer can’t attract 2,000 people.
I wasn't arguing in favour of an Easter BJC. I too enjoyed the summer BJC (although it cost me earnings). I was giving one of the traditional arguments for an Easter BJC. It makes sense for professional entertainers. I'm not sure it makes much sense for the majority of people who now attend the BJC.
Yes, I understand. My first BJC in 2000, it seemed that the main influence on a large portion of the jugglers there was street performers and circus performers. These days the largest influence is other amateur jugglers. Why would anyone have a pair of stilts or a unicycle to take part in a parade? Why does the parade even exist? Does it still exist?
Oh god. Parades. Please make them stop.
I know it's quite often a hook you can dangle towards the local city council to get some money off a venue, or land some other source of funding, but when you promise them a "colourful entertaining parade of jugglers acrobats and circus folk!" they picture an old fashioned circus parade. They picture tumbling acrobats, sequins and clowns. They picture free facepainting for the public, they picture ringmasters and jugglers and absolutely everything you can't deliver.
What they inevitably get is a bunch of people half heartedly walking along juggling 3 clubs or spinning a diabolo while talking to their mates and shuffling down the local high street. At best you might get one or two people wearing balloon hats, or a teenage unicyclist trial riding on every park bench or raised flower bed they can find.
Parades are at their absolute worst when everyone is only there because you made them attend the parade as a side effect of getting the bus into town for the evening show.
Parades are shit. "Because we've always done it" isn't a good enough reason.
EJC parades can still be good fun if the weather is nice. There's often an open air show on a specially build stage at the end of it, and those are usually worth seeing, like Smashed by the Gandinis in Almere (though not like 8 Songs by the Gandinis in Lublin).
Is it the parade which is good, or is it the "show on the open air stage" bit which is good?
Because I would wager that of the two, the open air show is the bit that could stand on it's own. Do that, do more of that. Advertise it locally, get the public in as well, make a big deal of the fact that there's a show in town!
Who is the parade for?
If it's for the locals, then we're doing them a massive disservice (even EJC parades are closer to the atmosphere of a protest march than they are "rio carnival")
If it's for the jugglers, then what's in it for us apart from a show or "the games" at the end of it? If it's a show/games then why do we need to wander round the streets for an hour first? Why can't we be dropped off next to the show and just get on with the good bit?
Want to do something for the locals that actually shows jugglers in a good light? Put on more shows, run a street performing competition, run free-fringe style events in small local venues...
Just please, not a bloody miserable death march through town.
As a young juggler I really enjoyed my first 5 parades or so.. Now after 15 at least it gets a bit unexciting yes..
I've really enjoyed the EJC parades I've been on, simply due to the amount of jugglers taking part - I think there's a critical mass. EJC Almere was particularly fun (especially our Ben occasionally pausing to show the crowd his single diabolo trick and getting rounds of applause - he was 6 at the time) and EJC in Carvin was mad, as it was at night and there was fire (health & safety??). I agree some BJC parades can be damp and disappointing.
I have exactly the opposite logic. BJC is my preferred convention because it's much cooler than in the summer. This means that I can juggle a lot without getting too hot. I don't care much about being outside. At most EJCs I've been to I'm unable to juggle most of the time because of the heat and I don't like to be outside in very hot conditions because of sunburn and other risks. I normally only go to the more northerly EJCs, although Joensuu didn't work out as I expected (40°C).
Also no fun when you have to leave your tent at 8am because the blazing sun is hitting it and roasting you alive. I've camped at every BJC I've been to and the only time I was cold was 2003 in Brighton because of the ice/snow.
You're not a tropical creature like me. Give me the early morning roasting sun anyday. I'd just go and find a nice shady spot and finish my sleep there. Or go to bed earlier. Camping in the snow.. are you quite mad? I went 'wild' camping at Brecon Beacons after the green man festival. It was horrible, damp and miserable.. couldn't wait for it to end. The only enjoying part I remember was when I was sitting in my car with the heating on.
I'm going for the first time from the continent just because it's close to the border! Don't kill my hype :P
You'll have a great time. I've enjoyed every BJC I've been to. I am excited for this one.
You will indeed have an excellent time. Sadly I don't think I can make it this time (due to foreign travel for work the next week) but I'll certainly miss it.
Enjoy - and if you have any questions, I'll probably be at the registration / information desk!
Given I barely saw you out of the kitchen, did BJC feel significantly smaller to you than previously? I understand that total numbers were around 700 but hadn't been properly counted when I heard Anna discuss this with Owen Morse after the business meeting.
Nigel, in your current thread "For several years now I have been suggesting a juggling competition for older…" you wrote "If the BJC doesn't happen next year (or even if it does)". May I ask if there there is any particular reason for suggesting there may not be a BJC next year?
During the Sunday meeting nobody stood up and said that they wanted to run a BJC in 2019. During the BJC I heard on several occasions people saying that there wouldn't be a BJC because EJC was in England next year. I am not strongly optimistic about a BJC next year because I haven't heard any great enthusiasm from anyone although I have now heard rumours about people thinking about it 'up north'.
I know one person who has an excellent venue and good plans for putting a bid together for 2019. They've never run one but assisted, so know what's involved. Just looking to put together a local team I think. Hopefully their initial thoughts and ideas will come through and they'll make themselves known soon.
Another team was interested and had ideas of a venue but nothing firm.
Ticket sales are now open for CATCH! a juggling and circus festival in Cumbria this July. Go to the website* to purchase, or buy them off me at a juggling event like BJC of Hulabulloo club on Wednesdays, or go to a local tourist information centre in Appleby and buy them.
-...?..?..?..?.. come on I got 4 more awesome top jugglers to announce and I cant until I sell 200 tickets help me make this be the best juggling convention ever!
Word of mouth is the best way to spread the new convention to everyone so even if you cant make it, tell others, so they can come have fun!
Can I ask why your event is more expensive than the BJC (I buy early bird but your website doesn't suggest the ability to do this for your event) but also shorter? Yours is an unknown and I believe that you were aiming to get Arts Council funding for it, whereas I pretty much know what I am getting with a BJC. I'm asking because whilst I would like to go (mainly because of David Cain) I have no incentive to book early and it is at a time of year when I might get a lot of work suddenly.
> Can I ask why your event is more expensive than the BJC
BJC tickets just went up to £130; Catch tickets are £100. Shome mishtake shurely?
yeah..i dont quite know what you mean I just looked and BJC says its 130?? and mine (CATCH) is £100?
or was the BJC 90 or something until recently??? sorry I cant give a good answer but I'm not sure if this was just a mistake
Also if you think you will have to work lots and can not take the holiday to come then thats okay, no worries! it can be hard to get holidays to go to all the juggling event you want, i would end up with most of the year off! haha
take care! x
BJC was £90 or £100 when I pre-reg'd back in whenever. It's gone up now but then there is a reason why there are early bird tickets. The point was I was asking about your price compared to what I paid for BJC tickets because BJC is firstly a known festival, is a day longer and is being subsidised by the Arts Council. As someone who normally brings a small troop (aka my family) I do look at the cost of the ticket. If I'm not working I might well turn up myself but maybe not bring the other 4. Did you price Catch based on full price BJC tickets? Did you consider early bird tickets? Why are 17 year olds priced as adults when they don't earn as adults? (and yes I know the BJC is worse for teenagers). Also as someone who runs a youth circus (soon to be a community circus) it isn't just me I ask for. I tend to promote events that might interest others I know and your answer came across poorly.
take care! x
I'm not sure if you're aware of how aggressive you're coming across Nigel.
I'm sure you're not intending to do so, you're just trying to work out where the value is coming from for the ticket price - which is a reasonable question!
I get that text is a difficult medium to express tone in, however I have felt a little bit awkward reading your posts on this matter to be honest, and I'm not the one putting the event on!
It is, of course, entirely up to you what you spend your money on. CATCH! and BJC are different events.
I'm looking at the two of them, and think that personally CATCH! has more of the sort of stuff that I like, and it's a one-off event that I'm not going to get two chances to attend - so I'm happy to put my money on that horse. I'm aware that I have different criteria than you, I'm aware that I have different limitations I have to take into account. Horses for courses!
Berating Rosie for pricing her event at £10 more than the BJC advance ticket price (a price which doesn't represent what the majority of BJC attendees will pay) seems a little OTT.
take care! x
(BTW I'm liking this new way of signing off posts, I mean, I know Nigel was doing it passive-agressively, but we should do more of this wishig-people-well stuff!)
I don't see berating coming from Nigel. I see an honest question inspired by an earnest desire to know the reasoning behind the pricing, along with suggestions of points that convention organisers ought to be considering.
My first question was completely genuine and not meant in any way aggressively. I thought that the reply was dismissive and aggressive and I tried to add to my question without being a complete arsehole. I'm sorry that I am coming across as aggressive because I thought the question was relevant.
Take care. (not sure about the x)
I also found this overly aggressive. I can't see anything dismissive or aggressive in Rosie's reply to you but seeing as she was the second person to question the logic of your first post giving her the benefit of the doubt & explaining your position would have been a better approach.
If juggling festivals were simply a profit making venture I would understand the reasoning that pricing should be based on other 'competing' events. But seeing as juggling festivals are thankfully not a winner takes all capitalist venture organisers should base the ticket price on the cost of running their festival. If you set prices based on the cost of someone else's festival you are on a road to ruin.
Catch! is being held in the summer holiday season when venues & event equipment are usually at a premium so I'm impressed Rosie has kept the cost down. I spent considerably more than £100 to see Kris Kremo at EJC 2006 & it was well worth it.
Take care! x (I might auto-append that to all posts...)
As stated, I booked early bird because firstly it helps BJC and secondly it is cheaper. Catch! doesn't have an early bird price so there is no incentive to book early on. This means that Rosie will have no idea of numbers and if the weather forecast for that week is appalling (which can happen in the Lake district) less people will have the incentive to go as they will have left it until later to book their tickets (or not booked at all). If numbers are not relevant to her convention (because of alternate funding) then why put the price at £100 (which doesn't compare well with early bird BJC ticket price as BJC is longer).
I'm not doing BJC this year, our plan is to do CATCH! instead.
However, I'm changing job around Easter and I can't say for sure if I'll be able to book the time off until then, but as soon as I'm able to I'll be jumping on the booking form!
thank you! and we've still got some great names to come!
who would be on your wish list? maybe we can make it happen! :D
Oh goodness...this will be a very /me/ list. And mostly people I would want to talk to at fests, rather than perform:
Dave Kelly (what's he up to these days?)
Strictly for performers...hard to say. Maybe Alexander Kulakov? Maybe a whipping diaboloist?
excellent list!!...i know most of those without having to even look them up..i must be getting better at this!
also maybe one of the names you've mentioned will be there! keep an eye on our website/facebook for artist announcements :D
I haven't booked yet as I need to have a good think about my finances.
To be honest, I had to reappraise my attendance when I found out that cooking won't be allowed on the campsite.
(It sounds like that's out of the control of the convention organisers as it's a restriction of the site licence. Also, the convention seems to be planning to add a space elsewhere where campers can cook.)
But it's a right faff to carry a cooker, pans, and food over to a dedicated cooking area for every meal for a week. That would seriously impact my enjoyment of the festival.
So instead I've decided to look at it as being like the BJC, where it's more practical to just buy all meals from the caterers. But that adds quite a financial burden, effectively doubling the ticket cost for me.
So I would still very much like to come, but it really depends on how much money I have nearer the time!
no problem dude! take the time to make sure its the right decision, and don't put yourself under a financial burden just for a juggling convention!
Hope to see you there!
What time does the campsite open? And close? I've a long drive, so would have to work out my travels times/days.
I don't frequently check this site so apologies for a delayed response!
Campsite is opening Monday afternoon, at the moment we're saying 2 in the afternoon.
Everyone off site by 6pm Friday
Hi there! been a while since i last posted here...
but i'm still training ;)
today i wanted to ask you about a wish i had for some time now.
i want to start a juggling club. how do i begin? how does it work?
i now it must be kind of a stupid question for many of you...
but i've never been in a juggling club.. there's no such thing in argentina.
only a few circus schools that opened these last years.
I even live in a small town called Lago Puelo, in patagonia, so not many cultural things available.
I love juggling. it made my life so much better. and i love teaching (i am a music teacher for kids).
so i want to create a place where old & new jugglers can meet, learn, exchange ideas, play together...
i was hoping you can give me some guidelines to how to kick-start it.
one good thing is that i actually know a few jugglers around here... so i can invite them to begin with...
My plan is usually:
- Find somewhere to juggle
- Find a time to that place is available every week
- Tell as many jugglers as you know (adding it to https://jugglingedge.com/clublistings.php and using facebook/instagram/etc to get the word out helps)
- Turn up at that time, every week, without fail.
That's all you really need to get a juggling club started.
Everything else (beginners workshops, teaching, social meetups etc) is an added bonus, but at its most basic, you need to be in the same place at the same time, predictably, reliably, week after week.
An initial publicity stunt or some other form of marketing also helps.
When starting Spalding juggling club (which folded when we left) an hour of club passing at the local market proved enough advertising to get sufficient numbers to pay for the hall.
When starting Concrete Circus a few assemblies in local schools helped.
Since you know a few jugglers around, perhaps not just invite them, but involve them! See if they are as excited about starting a club as you are.
For newcomers it's much easier to join a group than to join an individual, unless you want to set up a workshop rather than a typical juggling meeting club.
thanks! lots of usefull data!
i'm going to give it a try these days, or weeks... and will let you know!
You need a space and some jugglers. That's about it. If you want it to last I'd add:
- turn up on time or a bit early so it's open when people arrive
- make sure it happens regularly - if not then make sure you tell people when it's closed
- make sure you take some time out of your own practice to welcome new people and teach others (ask some of the other regulars to help you with this)
- keep feeding in new people - advertise (online is cheap/free), print some cards or flyers that you *always* have with you, juggle at student events, juggle in parks, juggle everywhere
- if it costs money make sure you plan to run it at a profit - you can always use this profit to buy stuff for everyone to use, put on shows etc. but don't plan to 'just break even' (you won't).
The classic mistake with juggling clubs is not finding & encouraging new people, which leads to the attendance shrinking, the same people running it (and becoming weary of doing so), less money to pay for venues etc. and eventual closure.
"if it costs money make sure you plan to run it at a profit" oh god this.
You don't have to aim for a big profit, but you should aim for a profit. If you're running at break-even and you have a few weeks where attendance is down, you'll end up funding the shortfall yourself. If you're running at a profit you've got a buffer to use on those quiet weeks.
you know the expression "two horse town"? well, in the town where i live you actually see people riding horses, or a pair of oxes pulling a cart... so.. yeah, not sure it could happend.
I did try to open a paid workshop, a few years ago, it started fine, but in mid-winter fell apart...
so, i guess it is a "non-profit" :) thanks anyway, some usefull data too.
also, do we need to get some kind of ensurence? or leave under-age people out of it?
how do you people deal with that?
again, thanks everybody for the advice, it's beeing really usefull.
i am 41 years joung and started 2 years ago to train regulary. I
balance since a year an Rola Bola and a walking Globe and want to
become a really good Performer.
I simply do it becouse i love to do it! : )
I train almost daily together with Jan Poolen in a
Gym in the Netherlands; Maastricht.
We also go to juggling conventions together and ofcours to the EJC.
My favorite Props are Poi and Clubs.
I just maneged the 4 clubs cascade and trying to make the first tricks.
I have studied Fine Art and Design and put my crativity into
the Juggling expearence and experiment.
hi there & welcome, a walking globe must be fun, I've gotta find one and try it one day
Welcome. I saw that you have studied fine art and design, and though you might be interested in a project of mine. I have been working on an app that helps jugglers structure training sessions and record data (download link to Play store).
Here are a few screen shots: https://imgur.com/a/Qmf0c
How would you design an app for juggling training?
My youth circus does a lot of work with walking globe and we are always looking for new ideas to progress this skill. My son in particular is reaching the edge of our walking globe knowledge and I would be interested if you have different ideas about tricks with and on the globe.
From what I've encountered it's a pretty limited apparatus as to what you can actually do with it, as opposed to simply doing other skills on on it.
Seesaws and ramps seem to be the standard progression - I assume you've explored both of those. I've never seen anyone go down stairs on a globe - in theory if you can control a globe down a ramp, stairs should be feasible so long as the angle is not too steep. Dangerous though - you wouldn't want to attempt it without a safety harness.
As far as on it goes, anything you can do on the ground (in theory). Juggling & manipulation, obviously. Partner acrobatics and pyramids. Tumbling too - thought I remembered seeing backflips (back handsprings if you're American, or a gymnast), but I couldn't find them. I did find a back-somersault (backflip if you're American, or a gymnast), see below.
Don't remember ever seeing anyone walk it on their hands, but I'm guessing it has been done.
Here's a roundoff-backsault mount, a standing backsault on the globe, and an aerial cartwheel dismount, followed by 6 people on one globe going over a seesaw!
Here are a couple of 'comedy' acrobats with a globe. Nothing you haven't already seen, but there's some nice duo acro at the start, and the end trick is good:
Here's a very nice mount to 2-high on globe, followed by spinning of many balls while one-foot standing on head:
(skip to 5mins 23secs if the time embed doesn't work)
Last but not least, until your son has mastered the following, he still hasn't exhausted the possibilities:
Just a few of the things my son is working on at the moment:
Standing on 2 walking globes at the same time and skipping.
Juggling under the leg whilst on a walking globe.
Walking along a line of walking globes, turning round and walking back along that line.
Standing on a walking globe with 3 other people and then 4 other people (only possible now that we have a large globe 1.1m as the smaller globes don't provide enough foot space).
Spinning a globe, jumping on and maintaining the spin.
Mounting the globe in different ways
What ever happened to ... ?
So, I found myself thinking about Jouni Temonen, a fabulous juggler from Finland who I met maybe a dozen or so years ago, and he's one of those really great jugglers who seems to have dropped completely off the radar. And I started wondering whether it's because he's doing better, more professional things, or perhaps he's got a proper job/life/baby or whatever and doesn't really inhabit the juggling world so much any more.
And then that got me thinking about Joost Dessing, and wondering what on earth he's up to now. And the more you think about it, the more gifted talents you will remember that seem to have disappeared off the scene for one reason or another.
So who do you recall, who was infuriatingly talented but has since moved on with their lives?
Maybe Michael Falkov. One of the best 3b jugglers ever (IMO, top 3, arguably the very top), but is super off-grid. Not sure if he's juggled in the last ~2 years.
Reuben Cohn-Gordon, Arron Gregg & Anthony Gatto (obviously!) are the names who immediately spring to my mind.
Similarly, is it my imagination or is the 'lifetime' of a juggler getting shorter? For example I feel that the more recent BYJotY competitors have not remained as visible in the scene as the earlier competitors (Norbi, Tiff, Tom Derrick, Arron Sparks, Jon Udry, Matt Pang etc.). Has the increased average skill level & easier access to the 'next big thing' made staying in the community's consciousness harder? Has the top level of juggling reached the point where physical limits are being hit & injury is forcing people out sooner?
Oof, I definitely miss Reuben Cohn-Gordon. I had a brief chat with him May 2014 when I was getting into squeeze catches. At that point he implied that he was still juggling some. Maybe there's hope.
It's an interesting point about youngins not staying on the scene as long these days. I got curious about IJA juniors winners...and I wish I knew if more of them still juggled. Below are some of the winners and whether or not they still juggle (to my knowledge)
Komei Aoki - Yes
Takashi Kikyo - Yes
Tony Pezzo - YES
Billy Watson - ?
Nate Martin - ?
Teruki Okamoto - I think so
Ben Hestness - ?
David Ferman - ?
Jack Levy - ?
Noah Malone - Yes
David Ferman - ?
Lauge Benjaminsen - Yes
David Ferman - ?
Jack Denger - ? (stopped making videos)
Patrick Fraser - Pretty much stopped
Kellin Quinn - YES
Jack Denger - ?
Ashley Ellis - ?
Ashley Ellis - ?
It seems to me that the number of people entering BYJOTY has reduced and that the average skill level is also less. Whether this is because the people attending BJC are getting older (and hence less youngsters are around to compete) or the general skill level is higher and so the good youngsters don't stand out so much or some other reason I couldn't say. Still at least a few of the recent winners are still very much on the scene and in the community consciousness. It was only about 4 years ago that Arthur Hyam won.
As well as other things in life getting in the way, one thing I've noticed based mainly on myself and is that as you get older you tend to seek praise from others less. This is why we make juggling videos of ourselves. As I get older I'm juggling just as much but making far fewer videos. People therefore think I've stopped juggling. I was recently asked to film a section for a video about people who've stopped juggling!
What Joost is up to is very easy to find [he is based in Queen's in Belfast]. His research seems to have veered towards football rather than juggling (probably related to sources of funding).
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