Viewing all threads involving Cedric Lackpot
Jon said to introduce myself to you all, so here I am.
I've been juggling for a while now - I first taught myself a 3b Cascade back in August 2016, and I think I caught the bug shortly thereafter! I've been going to sessions with Fever in Loughborough so some of you know me from there. I'm currently working on 5b cascade (something I've been telling people for at least 6 months now...), but I'm also looking to get my club work a bit more comfortable and learn a couple more 3b and 4b tricks along the way!
To say a little about myself;
I'm Leicester born&bred and work in engineering (packaging processing).
In my free time if I'm not sitting around enjoying the greenery at home then I'm often out camping/hiking (usually Derbyshire)
I'm a big fan of pens and writing equipment, usually more technical/design-work styles rather than arty or creative ones (German > Japanese). Personal favourites (that I own) are a 1970s Kaweco V16 (14c nib version) and a 1967 Parker 51. Favourite (that I don't have yet) is the black Rotring 600 FP - but they're getting increasingly difficult/costly to get hold of. If anyone's having trouble sleeping, I can tell you all about tine alignment and nock mechanisms and you'll be away in no time.
I spend a fair amount of time playing video games but not really anything beyond 6th gen consoles (GC, PS2 etc) - my PB for MKDD All Cup Tour is about 39-40 minutes (i-g t) at the moment.
I'll be at Lestival in a couple of weeks and Catch in July so if anyone wants to say hello in person, please do!
Welcome. You seem similar to me in a number of ways including your name. I'm hoping to get to Catch festival too.
Hi PeterBn. Rotring fineliners are cool, .. you can do fine drawings in a quality of steel engravings or chalcography with them. Do you also use or only collect them and admire their engineered make?
I don't think I could own a pen I couldn't use! Even the more expensive ones get filled and used fairly often!
I don't do an awful lot of drawing, and I don't write for fun or anything, but I write a lot of notes at work and it's always better with a nice pen to do it with!
Rotrings tend to be really nicely built in my experience, and you can tell there's a lot of thought gone into their functionality. I've got a number of Isographs and Rapidographs in my boxes but unfortunately they don't see much use with CAD! I might have to dig them out and do some TD soon...
Have we met? Are you coming to Lestival!? Yes! Yes you are!! Do come and introduce yourself, I'm also known as Jay Linn but all the orgs there will be able to point me out.
I live near Leicester. Any time you fancy restarting the Leicester juggling club just let me know and I'll provide equipment and possibly a little funding for you. What I don't possess is the time to do it myself, but I'd love it if we had a juggling club again.
I don't believe we have met - not yet at least!
I'll keep an eye out for you and try to say hello at Lestival
A Leicester group would be good, I have a couple of friends who don't drive (so can't really get out to any other groups easily) but live in the city and may be interested.
Should young Circomedia/NCCA/other circus schools are available graduates be allowed to compete in BYJOTY?
This was an interesting question raised in the BJC business meeting. Are they discouraging younger, less experienced performers from getting involved? This came about because this year's BYJOTY competition featured Circomedia graduate Eilidh Sela who picked up the Judge's Choice Award (although not the BYJOTY title decided by popular vote) with a very high quality, very slick & very professional hoop act.
Various suggestions were made to deal with this: excluding graduates, dividing entrants up into categories etc. none of which felt right to me. If it's just about making a fair competition I feel I'm quite capable of deciding who is good for their age/for their length of time juggling/for their level of training so long as I'm given that information.
The main reason I don't want to see young graduates or soon to be graduates excluded is because I think it is a great benefit for young kids to see accomplished performers closer to their own age. I think it is more motivating & exciting to see what they could be like in a couple of years rather than what they could be in 15-20 years. I think young kids are more likely to relate to & interact with another teenager/early 20-something than they are with someone much older. It would be a great shame to take that opportunity away from them.
I was at the meeting when this came up because it was obvious everyone had a strong opinion and a debate would take up the rest of the day so I kept my mouth shut.
Personally, I believe the format is right as it is. There are nowhere near enough entrants to start splitting into categories and you would still end up wanting to award a "british young juggler of the year title" so the problem wouldn't go away. A younger competitor, say 11 or 12 has ten years to keep trying and learning from previous attempts. That should be more than enough time for a keen (very) young juggler to improve there skills.
It sounds a bit harsh but I don't like the idea of BYJOTY turning into "cutest kid" competition because that takes away any serious prestige of the title. I vote on the merit of the act, last year that was Max (?) the young diabolist because his was the combination of the most entertaining and skillful act in my opinion. His age didn't come into the equation and it didn't need to.
A "most improved" award would encourage entrants to keep entering each year but judging it would be a nightmare.
I don't have a problem with graduates participating, if they have dedicated a portion of their life to be better performers then good for them. They will have sacrificed other education paths so an improved chance of winning BYJOTY seems like a reasonable reward.
In my opinion thinking that someone should be excluded through training would be bad. Yes Eilidh had a very nice hoop routine that showed the polish you would expect from someone going through Circomedia training but other Circomedia students have entered in previous years and I don't think that any have yet won. (I could be wrong but my list of previous winners in my head doesn't bring one to mind).
You then have to start asking where do you join the line? Eilidh is 20 and is a 2nd year Circomedia student. She has presumably had some training before that but was it as part of a group or ad hoc? Both Peter who won and Christopher (who did S-Staff) have been part of Concrete Circus for a number of years. As such they are experienced in performing in front of a large audience (they performed at MKJC last year for example). They also have had encouragement from seasoned performers and others and advice on how to improve their acts. In the case of Peter, he has been working on that skill (amongst others) for roughly 7 years.
(2cts:) On many chess tournaments, there's rating prizes, so that many, also not so good players have a chance to win a prize (even though it remains hard). Or also, after a few rounds played in a qualification part, new groups are formed (like group A level and group B level) to seperately play out for the top A level prize and for the lower B level prize; with the same intention of not only the very best winning prizes. So maybe categories of participants for different prize values or different kinds of prizes could help to sort such asymmetry in skills out. (roughly: let there be something for everyone, be it prizes, groups, categories, chances on sth, anything, many consolation prizes \second prizes for girls, for youngest or best among youngest, for furthest journey to the event location, for most original, most skilled, most appealing performance - the top prize and holy grail remaining the BYJOTY) [but I feel highly incompetent on this, just hope to maybe deliver a little mosaique stone to the discussion]
I have no problem with people who've had extensive training entering the competition.
There might be an argument for excluding professional performers and keeping it as an amateur competition, if the goal is to produce new talent?
Perhaps saying that if you make your living from performance, you shouldn't be entering? But I'm not sure if any full-time performers have entered in the past anyway?
As said, if the competition isn't broken, don't fix it. If it looks like it's not achieving its aims, then perhaps tweak it then.
Should young Circomedia/NCCA/other circus schools are available graduates be allowed to compete in BYJOTY?
By which I mean yes.
I just can't read.
Or alternatively, in answer to the question, should they be excluded, please see my previous answer.
I’ve been saying for years that I want to see more training for byjoty entrants, not less.
I want to see acts that have had development, direction, advice from outside the performers head. I want to see acts that have had the cruft cut, I want to see acts that have been practiced, thought about, and refined.
Ok so some people get that st a formal training school, some may get that from people at their local club. There may be more that we as a community can do to help young jugglers be the best that they can be!
At one point, the IJA had a mentoring program for young jugglers preparing an act for the juniors, and that isn’t a terrible idea!
More training less making it up on your own please!
What were the arguments for not allowing them to compete? I've not heard any here. I'm amazed that it was even brought up.
I don't know the guy who raised the issue so I can't be certain of his intention but my understanding was he felt that it wasn't a fair competition because a young kid who hasn't had any formal training doesn't stand a chance against someone who has (although as pretty much everyone has pointed out, this is not the case).
I've never set foot in a boxing ring, I don't think I have any right to think I have a shot at a title belt.
Everyone has the option to put the work in. I think the idea that more training/work/thought/preparation = success is something that needs to be reinforced.
The person who raised it at the BJC meeting was under the impression that BYJotY is a kid's event. Therefore they thought it was not right that those who are not kids/overly trained should take part. Either he or someone else made that point that as a trained engineer, he would feel that it was inappropriate to enter a kid's engineering competition.
Then the discussion went on for far too long into a back and forth between "I don't really think it's very fair to single out Circomedia students" to "Well, maybe we generally could consider dropping the age limit" whereas I would have preferred a swift "You are entitled to your opinion, but many disagree, and it's up to the organiser of the event"
 my personal opinion (above that what I tried to write above) is that whoever organises such an event should be allowed to run it however they want until such a point as they lose the support of the community (which, for example, would be a reasonable consequence of announcing that noone named David is allowed to compete). It's then up to the previous organiser and the convention organiser to decide if the event will take place, and who/how should organise it/it should be organised.
Seriously? People are questioning whether being young and British is not a satisfactory qualification? Fucking bonkers. If you're gonna run a competition based on excellence in a given field, you should be gleefully embracing that excellence. And if it's really a problem and the poor lickle beggars are being intimidated by the slightly bigger, slightly less younger buggers, then split the competition into British young jugglers and British younger amateur jugglers who haven't been to circus school, although BYAJWHBTCSotY is a bit of a gobfull I'll admit.
The thing about competition is that it is fundamentally elitist, about ranking people on some scale or other, which is why you typically have one winner and many losers. If there is a worry that potential entrants may be frightened off by, you know, talent, then why not just ban talent and start dishing out a plastic gold medal to everyone and be done with it?
Somebody needs to decide whether it's a competition or a parade.
Hi my name is Simeon I am 9 years old. Last week I attended the circusworks youth festival with no fit state circus.I got to perform in the gala show juggling 5 balls.I didn't feel nervous at all there was about 100 people in the audience.I've done 750 catches with 5 balls, with 6 balls I can do half shower, async and sync fountain I am also learning a 9,3 half shower I can do a 7,5 with inside 7s I am learning a 4 ball mills mess and also 5,3,4,mills mess. One time I did 7 balls for 35 catches and I'm learning a 7 ball half shower I've also tried to do site swaps with 7 such as 9,6,6 and 8,6,7, and (8x6)* with 5 balls I'm learning how to do (8x4)(44). I have performed at the NEC in Birmingham, in my school Assembly and at my Circus school.
I am a self taught juggler, been juggling for 3 years now This past year I have had juggling lessons at the Circus school.
I love all this juggling.
Bye for now
Hello! Are you Tracey posting on behalf of Simeon, or are you Simeon posting with the account that Tracey asked to set up for you? I can change your username to Simeon if you'd like? that would be less confusing for everyone!
That's an impressive list of achievements there, how much of that progress was made before you started circus school?
Hi I am Simeon posting on my mum Tracey's account.
Could you change the name to Simeon Please.
I taught myself to juggle up to 5 balls but could only do a few tricks that I made up myself. I had no idea of site swaps before I started my juggling lessons. In my juggling lessons I was helped with my timing, posture and to understand site swaps.
Done. You'll need to use Simeon as your username the next time you log on.
What were the tricks you made up yourself?
"You'll need to use Simeon as your username the next time you log on."
How's he going to know that without logging on to see the message? Which he won't be able to do if he doesn't know that his username has changed because he hasn't seen the message...
I expect you've considered that and informed him by some other means as well, though, Orin.
I could only do tricks with up to four balls. Like half shower, sync and Asynchronous but I didn't know the names of the patterns before I started having lessons at Circus school.
I would have liked to see you at the Circusworks festival but unfortunately whilst my youth circus were there (Concrete Circus), I was at the British Juggling Convention instead. Which circus school do you attend? It might be good for you to attend juggling conventions if you don't already as that can provide a lot of positive stimulation.
Hi Nigel I remember seeing concrete circus last week. I attend Circus Mash in Birmingham for my lessons.
My mum is going to take me to lestival this year and the EJC next year. I can't wait.
If you are at Circus Mash then hopefully Tom can teach you lots of great skills. If you are looking at close juggling conventions then Milton Keynes Juggling Convention in November is just as good as Lestival (I'd say better but Jay would want to pick a fight). You get to see Concrete Circus performing in the show there as well.
Thanks for letting me know about the Milton Keynes festival. It would be nice to see Jay again I remember him.
I go to Toms juggling club but only in the school holidays at it starts and finishes to late on a school night. We talk about our new juggling balls and use each other's to juggle with. We like to talk and try out new tricks together.
I am teaching my mum how to juggle, she can do about 12 throws and catches 3 ball cascade. My Dad is not as good as my mum yet.
I'm flattered that you claim to remember me ... but alas I may have to see you in person before I can recall where we've met, apologies.
Anyway, that dreadful old #MKJC won't happen again for about a billion years, you'll be long dead before it comes around, whereas Lestival! is in just three weeks' time! I'm pretty sure it's on the 5th May this year and I shall be there all day, so come along and re-introduce yourself to me.
Whatever you do, make it your business to immerse yourself in as many conventions and events as you possibly can, so that you can nurture and grow that fantastic talent you have whilst you are still
annoyingly precociously young ;-)
After 10 years of juggling, I just got my first clubs! Can anyone recommend some videos with nice 3 club tricks in? What are some nice 4 club tricks to get started with?
Thanks for any suggestions! :)
Mats, you've come out from the dark side at last! How are you? I haven't seen you in so long.
Anyway, as you now doubtless realise, clubs are great and balls suck. Congratulations on grasping this fundamental and self-evident truth.
I don't care for videos so I can't recommend any, but 4c tricks that are great include 7771, 6532 with a flourish on the 2, and circus-style 71 where you throw the 7s vertically and walk around in a small circle to bring your catching hand under the 7s. Also 3c+head balance, to a drop into 4c, or the fancy version where you drop the club back behind you and blind kick it back into the pattern with the sole of your foot.
Come to Lestival! Mats.
Gah, I should juggle more. What I was actually thinking of was 7333, no idea where 7771 came from. But there's a crisp tenner for anyone who can do it ;-)
If anyone wants to validate any of these siteswaps, the Siteswaphone is back online after being offline for about 3 months due to a hardware failure (+44)117 9115202
Whoa, is that thing for real? How does that work? I am so going to ring that when I'm back in the UK next week!!!
It is indeed real, I have called it in the past :-)
Google indicates that at least one version of the source code is available here: http://www.paulseward.com/downloads/siteswaphone-1.0.tgz
Paul can confirm if that is the most recent version.
The code seems well documented. It appears to be a series of macros for the Asterisk IP telephony platform.
Now also on github if anyone wants to improve it https://github.com/paulseward/asterisk-siteswaphone
I’m hosting it on a Sipgate number, so calls are free for other Sipgate users around the world.
And yes, the design goal was to do it purely as asterisk macros with no cheating by calling out to external utilities. It’s quite good fun too.
I’m happy for people to play with it, share the number, host their own version etc - although if you do then I’d really appreciate it if you could let me know so I get the warm fuzzy feeling
After some time this week juggling outside in cold, humid conditions, I can confirm that beanbags are great and clubs suck.
And I'm doing well, circusing the summer and vanishing into the mountains for winter. I won't be making Lestival due to work. Quite a shame as it is a great convention. Might see you at Bungay if you are in attendence? Hope all is well with you in Leicester?
Fucksakes Void, lighten up a little will ya? I know it's Das Fail but give 'em a little credit, they're still just about a proper Fleet Street paper even if you happen to be vehemently opposed to their ethos. For instance, who could possibly argue with this meaty, considered, in-depth reportage?
Also, could I humbly request that the Daily Mail does not ever dare to preach grammar to its plebs when they CAN'T even understand WHAT capitalisation MEANS and seem to be of the OPINION that one's caps lock KEY will become SQUEAKY if not frequently exercised? They actually do it right there in the headline you probably didn't read!
Is the BJC dying a slow death?
I've not been for a few years so I was quite surprised to hear how few are expected to attend this year. Fewer than half the amount of people that used to go about 10 years ago.
Is this a sign of a fall in the numbers of young jugglers taking up the hobby or are there just more events dividing up the pool of likely attendees?
BJC numbers are always down when it's in a "far corner" of the UK. Of course, we're well down from the early 90s heyday, but that's been true for years.
The last 2 with figures for attendance on https://thebritishjugglingconvention.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=BJC_History (both in Darton) are over 900. That's pretty good. I'm sure Perth will have been well down on that, and I guess it makes sense for Canterbury to budget on a low figure too. We'll see how it goes, I guess....
I wouldn't have called Kent a far flung corner. Not compared with Yorkshire. I suppose I'd need to know more about the concentration of jugglers around the country but I would have assumed London and Bristol to be hotspots.
Anyway I hope you're right because 500 seems a small number to me.
Where are you getting 500 from? *If* it's their budgeting figure, that's presumably a worst case scenario, and therefore it wouldn't be unreasonable to *hope for* 600-700. Dunno, I'm guessing...
From the horse's mouth. Budgeting figure is even lower.
Good to know the last couple were around 900. That's a good number.
When people are deciding between BJC or Catch it can't be a good thing.
There has to be a number where it is no longer viable in its current form.
Mind you, under 500 and we could do it at Hulver farm
British Balls Up anyone?
There are no numbers on that site for attendance for the last 2 (anyone know?). 900s were 2014 & 2015.
Well, here's hoping...
> When people are deciding between BJC or Catch it can't be a good thing.
Why not? I see that it's a risky situation, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong. It seems to me that the BJC does not have a right to be pre-eminent, it needs to earn that status.
I meant it can't be a good thing for the BJC. It might well be a good thing for juggling.
It already seems quite hard to get people to commit to running one, if numbers decline who's going to take the risk of making a big loss?
Maybe both can be successful?
Anyway, come to BJC and eat at Montegriffo's.....
I wouldn't have called Kent a far flung corner. Not compared with Yorkshire
Spoken like a southerner ;-)
I'm currently a southerner, living in Bristol. But I'd still rather travel to Yorkshire rather than Kent! There's this annoying thing called London in the way, which adds stress and considerable time, whatever method of transport you use.
I will make the effort anyway, because I want to go to the BJC. But I can see why anyone in the Midlands or above would think twice.
Canterbury is more than twice as far from the centre of the UK population as Darton is.
Where's the centre of the UK population?
About one in seven live in London, must be getting on for a third of the population are South of Watford.
From a comment on an Ordnance Survey page: "Yes, one of our Twitter followers suggested this too. It’s not something we’ve worked out ourselves, but @MurrayData says that using a population weighted approach centre of GB is approximately 433924E 309573N (Measham Rd Swadlincote Leics.)"
Yeah, erm, Swadlincote's in Derbys not Leics - only just, but Derbys nevertheless. Not a good start, although if I had to guess the GB population centre I'd probably go for somewhere not too far from Swad.
Also, Swad is mostly an unmitigated shithole, but then that probably makes it a good representative of some sort of median of the British population. I have worked a lot in Swad.
These Swad facts brought to you by Cedric Lackpot, who has nothing of value to add to this thread, but knows a damn thing or two about Swadlincote!
The main reason I won’t be returning to the BJC again soon, and the reason why I don’t recommend it to European jugglers when they ask me about it, is the time of year and the accompanying high chances of bad weather.
That’s the reason I’m not going again this year. The better time of year is also the main reason I’m going to the Catch festival this year.
If the BJC was held in July, I’d probably go every year.
That's rather a silly reason not to recommend it, Luke. Yes, some BJCs have had awful weather, but plenty have had good weather, even the ones held in the far flung North. Also, last time I went to the Lakes in the summer we had really quite a lot of rain.
There's no guarantee of good weather at any time of year, although it's likely to be a lot warmer in the summer of course. I'd be more inclined to talk about the shows, workshops, halls and general vibe of the BJC than the weather - if nothing else, to avoid becoming a national stereotype!
Not, it's not a silly reason. It's a major factor for me, and judging from the feedback I get from non-UK jugglers who visit the BJC, it's also the main complaint they have.
In Europe, if a convention is held in the winter, camping isn't expected. It's an indoor sleeping convention, with entire sports halls or other rooms set aside for people to lay out mats and sleeping bags. If the convention is late spring to early autumn, camping becomes an option. The BJC insists that camping is an option, even when the chances of bad weather is worse than good weather.
For example, Berlin held its convention in September last year, due to some date conflicts, and everyone expected the weather to be fine. But it wasn't. It was waaay colder than it is in May or June, the normal date for the event, and it got dark way earlier. So now the convention has moved back to the summer again.
Just so you know, the shows, workshops, halls and vibes at the BJC are no better than other national conventions in Europe. There is nothing to recommend them above conventions at better times of year and with better weather than the BJC. The chances of bad weather in March in Scotland though? Camping on the top of a mountain in Yorkshire in April, with tents being blown away? No thanks!
Rain isn't so much of a problem if the temperature isn't too bad. Just the difference from March to May was enough for it not to be too stressful for us to camp at Bungay. But the BJC that same year? Nope, we got a B&B.
Canterberry in April:
Cumbria in July:
If you are wondering about reduced numbers of people at the BJOC, I think the comparison you want is Perth, Scotland, in March and anywhere in the UK in July.
Perth in March:
Average high 6.4°C
Average low 2.1°C
Canterbury in July:
Average high 22.8°C
Average low 12.9°C
Penrith (closest city to Appleby) in July:
Average high 19.4°C
Average low 10.5°C
Conclusion: if the BJC was in July, anywhere in the UK, I'd probably go and be okay to camp every year.
I may not agree with a whole lot of what Luke has to say - and I'm pretty confident he's perfectly cool to be disagreed with - but I confidently and assertively agree that the climate is not a silly reason.
And it's certainly nowhere near as silly as saying that the British climate is unpredictable at all times of year, and therefore implying that the probability of seasonal or non-seasonal weather is immaterial regardless of the time in question!
There are a number of good reasons to hold BJCs at or around Easter - the weather is not one of them.
I have to agree, the damn weather and having to camp is always a factor that is lurking in the background, taking the edge off my anticipation. I am not the best camper - can't sleep well in a tent, so this year for the first time we have opted for the local Premier Inn. It does feel like a cop out but seeing as my hot water bottle is going to the IJC I couldn't face a week sleeping in a cold tent.
That being said the British EJC in 2019 will be in August and I am hoping that it will be considerably warmer and with little rain! Newark is only 50 miles from Swad so not far off being pretty central and we really really hope that we can entice as many jugglers, hoopers, diabolists, aerialists etc to it as we can.
As it is in Britain I am hoping to attract not only all the wonderful people from all over the world who come to EJC but all of those Brits that have never been to one before.
I know there is another EJC before it (2018 - Azores) but I am just slipping it in now so it's in your subconscious!!
PS the EJA are looking for a team for 2020, so if you know someone who might be interested in finding out more about organising a huge event like the EJC then send an email to firstname.lastname@example.org
Let me ponder my BJC camping history:
2000 - so wet I never pitched my tent, and slept in the car instead.
2001 - some nice weather, but freezing cold one night and as it pouring with rain on the last day, it was the least pleasant final day of a convention ever.
2002 - after two years of terrible weather, I skipped the BJC completely! I went to the Israeli convention instead. The weather was amazing.
2003 - didn't camp, got a room at the university instead. People complained about ice on their tents. This was Brighton, not Scotland, so the location isn't always the most important thing.
2004 - performer, and was provided accommodation.
2005 - performer, and was provided accommodation.
2006 - performer, and was provided accommodation.
2007 - performer, and was provided accommodation.
2008 - performer, and was provided accommodation.
2009 - got myself a B&B, but as this was a summer convention, I would probably have been happy to camp.
2010 - BJC switched back to a winter convention again, and I decided to skip it again.
2011 to 2013 - nope.
2014 - borrowed my parents' camper van.
2015 - camper van not an option, didn't want to camp in the same place where the previous year peoples' tents had blown away.
2016 - nope.
2017 - B&B again.
Ah look, I literally only camped at a BJC once! The only reason I kept going was being either by paying for accommodation myself, or being offered non-camping options for performing various acts in various shows.
Premier Inn is not a cop out, it's the only way sensible adults will keep returning to a camping convention in the winter/early spring!
This seems to be a wall of evidence that you have very little experience of camping at a BJC, but didn't enjoy it one time 7 years ago.
Doesn't seem fair to the British scene to spend so much time and energy discouraging others on that basis Luke.
It's not just the camping. It's the general wet and cold atmosphere. In 2009 the convention was in the summer in Norfolk. I went to the FIRE SHOW. I sat outside and watched the fire show and it wasn't the most miserable moment of my entire year. Do you know how amazing that felt? A BJC fire show which wasn't utterly unbearable to watch. Wow. And in the evenings we were hanging out on the grass between the gyms. The renegade show tent didn't need space heaters. Nobody was wrapped up for winter for no reason at all except the sun had gone down. We could watch the Sharpe brothers do their street show, just outside one day, and it wasn't remarkable that the wind wasn't so bad they couldn't do any diabolo tricks.
Then my next BJC, when hosting the games, I had to make announcements that people's tents were blowing away, and they should go check on them before we left for the gala show.
It's not about my camping experience, it's about having a relaxing time at a convention.
Again, the Berlin convention miscalculated with holding it in September last year, and the very next year it is back to June, based ENTIRELY on the weather and how soon it got dark. How did it take them one year to learn the lesson but the BJC keeps at it?
I hope that after the Catch this year and the EJC next year, people will finally learn, and the BJC can be a summer convention from now on. Or at least a late-May to late-Augst convention.
It is true the BJC fire show is consistently unbearable to watch, but I have never attributed that fact to the weather.
*Tries to donate a fiver to The Edge, for that comment*
*Finds out there's a minimum £10 donation*
It wasn't *that* funny. Cash at BJC do ya?
As others have said, you've hardly ever camped at a BJC so I don't think you're really qualified to comment. I've camped at BJCs since 1993 (Birmingham) with a few gaps and I've never felt particularly cold, been woken up by bad weather or had a leaky tent. It has *been* cold, I agree, but with decent clothing and a good sleeping bag that's not a problem. Yes, it can be cold & wet outside but I've also sat outside on the grass in a T-shirt some years. In fact the one time I've been flooded out was at EJC Ptuj (which was the very definition of wet and cold and miserable).
Of course the BJC could be in the summer. It has been, in Norwich, after plans for the usual time fell through, as you said, and it was lovely and warm. It could be any time from late May (but don't you dare schedule it against Bungay, otherwise I shall be *really* scathing). It could be at Christmas. But someone has to stand up and volunteer to run it at that time and this bid has to be voted through at the business meeting - you know how this works. They'll then have to contend with competing with other festivals (including non-juggling ones), university exams and all the others things that may not have such impact in late March/early April/Easterish, availability of venues not in the Easter holidays and lots of other factors.
There's no point writing 'people will actually learn' in the hope it will happen - it will take someone to stand up and come up with a concrete plan for a summer BJC. As you know, there's no British Juggling Association running BJCs <nails lid firmly back on big can of worms> just whoever stands up and volunteers a year of their life.
I think we have an interesting situation this year with Catch! which is kind of an alternative BJC-ish thing in the summer with great acts in the show. This may well prove that a summer BJC-ish festival could work, in which case I look forward to many more bids of this kind.
No, I think I am qualified to comment. The point of my comment is that the bad weather has been the deciding factor in why I decided not to go to the BJC. And not just once. After York and Cardiff, I didn't go back to the BJC, and went somewhere else instead. Same in 2010. Same in 2015. Same in 2017.
The people who are happy to camp in the ice/snow/wind/rain/etc of the UK in March/April? You don't have to worry about them. But what about all the people whose first BJC was Derby in 2004? How many people didn't bother coming back the next year? Even though I didn't camp, I drove home to Newcastle with two people who did, and the stop in a pub on the way home for dinner, and sitting in front of the fire, was the first time they had felt properly warm and comfortable for the previous five days.
The people who don't go to the BJC are the ones qualified to talk about why they don't go, and are 100% correct about the reasons the numbers might be down... at least for the number they represent.
The people who DO go to the BJC, by the fact they can cope with the stress of bad weather, are not qualified to talk about the reasons the people who don't go aren't going.
I've gone to the BJC once (I think 2015?). I had to sleep inside on the last night, it was a rainy festival.
I'm going again this year, very happy to bring my campervan!
That's a good point, no one likes going anywhere when it's cold and sodden. Why don't they hold the festival mid-summer?
The historic reason for the BJC being at Easter rather than in the summer is that performers are much more likely to not be working at that time. Whether as a performer in the show who charges less than their normal fee or as an attending performer who doesn't want to miss out on the lucrative summer months Easter makes much more sense. Touring circus often runs from after Easter until sometime in Autumn, so the timing would help them to attend. Nowadays BJC does not have as many professional entertainers and so this is not as good an argument as before. It still might mean that it is difficult to get the best professionals, although Rosie seems to be showing that a summer convention with enough funding can do that anyway.
If you get 2,000 people at the convention, you can pay professionals to be there. It’s how the EJC works. There is no reason a BJC in the summer can’t attract 2,000 people.
I wasn't arguing in favour of an Easter BJC. I too enjoyed the summer BJC (although it cost me earnings). I was giving one of the traditional arguments for an Easter BJC. It makes sense for professional entertainers. I'm not sure it makes much sense for the majority of people who now attend the BJC.
Yes, I understand. My first BJC in 2000, it seemed that the main influence on a large portion of the jugglers there was street performers and circus performers. These days the largest influence is other amateur jugglers. Why would anyone have a pair of stilts or a unicycle to take part in a parade? Why does the parade even exist? Does it still exist?
Oh god. Parades. Please make them stop.
I know it's quite often a hook you can dangle towards the local city council to get some money off a venue, or land some other source of funding, but when you promise them a "colourful entertaining parade of jugglers acrobats and circus folk!" they picture an old fashioned circus parade. They picture tumbling acrobats, sequins and clowns. They picture free facepainting for the public, they picture ringmasters and jugglers and absolutely everything you can't deliver.
What they inevitably get is a bunch of people half heartedly walking along juggling 3 clubs or spinning a diabolo while talking to their mates and shuffling down the local high street. At best you might get one or two people wearing balloon hats, or a teenage unicyclist trial riding on every park bench or raised flower bed they can find.
Parades are at their absolute worst when everyone is only there because you made them attend the parade as a side effect of getting the bus into town for the evening show.
Parades are shit. "Because we've always done it" isn't a good enough reason.
EJC parades can still be good fun if the weather is nice. There's often an open air show on a specially build stage at the end of it, and those are usually worth seeing, like Smashed by the Gandinis in Almere (though not like 8 Songs by the Gandinis in Lublin).
Is it the parade which is good, or is it the "show on the open air stage" bit which is good?
Because I would wager that of the two, the open air show is the bit that could stand on it's own. Do that, do more of that. Advertise it locally, get the public in as well, make a big deal of the fact that there's a show in town!
Who is the parade for?
If it's for the locals, then we're doing them a massive disservice (even EJC parades are closer to the atmosphere of a protest march than they are "rio carnival")
If it's for the jugglers, then what's in it for us apart from a show or "the games" at the end of it? If it's a show/games then why do we need to wander round the streets for an hour first? Why can't we be dropped off next to the show and just get on with the good bit?
Want to do something for the locals that actually shows jugglers in a good light? Put on more shows, run a street performing competition, run free-fringe style events in small local venues...
Just please, not a bloody miserable death march through town.
As a young juggler I really enjoyed my first 5 parades or so.. Now after 15 at least it gets a bit unexciting yes..
I've really enjoyed the EJC parades I've been on, simply due to the amount of jugglers taking part - I think there's a critical mass. EJC Almere was particularly fun (especially our Ben occasionally pausing to show the crowd his single diabolo trick and getting rounds of applause - he was 6 at the time) and EJC in Carvin was mad, as it was at night and there was fire (health & safety??). I agree some BJC parades can be damp and disappointing.
I have exactly the opposite logic. BJC is my preferred convention because it's much cooler than in the summer. This means that I can juggle a lot without getting too hot. I don't care much about being outside. At most EJCs I've been to I'm unable to juggle most of the time because of the heat and I don't like to be outside in very hot conditions because of sunburn and other risks. I normally only go to the more northerly EJCs, although Joensuu didn't work out as I expected (40°C).
Also no fun when you have to leave your tent at 8am because the blazing sun is hitting it and roasting you alive. I've camped at every BJC I've been to and the only time I was cold was 2003 in Brighton because of the ice/snow.
You're not a tropical creature like me. Give me the early morning roasting sun anyday. I'd just go and find a nice shady spot and finish my sleep there. Or go to bed earlier. Camping in the snow.. are you quite mad? I went 'wild' camping at Brecon Beacons after the green man festival. It was horrible, damp and miserable.. couldn't wait for it to end. The only enjoying part I remember was when I was sitting in my car with the heating on.
I'm going for the first time from the continent just because it's close to the border! Don't kill my hype :P
You'll have a great time. I've enjoyed every BJC I've been to. I am excited for this one.
You will indeed have an excellent time. Sadly I don't think I can make it this time (due to foreign travel for work the next week) but I'll certainly miss it.
Enjoy - and if you have any questions, I'll probably be at the registration / information desk!
Given I barely saw you out of the kitchen, did BJC feel significantly smaller to you than previously? I understand that total numbers were around 700 but hadn't been properly counted when I heard Anna discuss this with Owen Morse after the business meeting.
Nigel, in your current thread "For several years now I have been suggesting a juggling competition for older…" you wrote "If the BJC doesn't happen next year (or even if it does)". May I ask if there there is any particular reason for suggesting there may not be a BJC next year?
During the Sunday meeting nobody stood up and said that they wanted to run a BJC in 2019. During the BJC I heard on several occasions people saying that there wouldn't be a BJC because EJC was in England next year. I am not strongly optimistic about a BJC next year because I haven't heard any great enthusiasm from anyone although I have now heard rumours about people thinking about it 'up north'.
I know one person who has an excellent venue and good plans for putting a bid together for 2019. They've never run one but assisted, so know what's involved. Just looking to put together a local team I think. Hopefully their initial thoughts and ideas will come through and they'll make themselves known soon.
Another team was interested and had ideas of a venue but nothing firm.
Ticket sales are now open for CATCH! a juggling and circus festival in Cumbria this July. Go to the website* to purchase, or buy them off me at a juggling event like BJC of Hulabulloo club on Wednesdays, or go to a local tourist information centre in Appleby and buy them.
-...?..?..?..?.. come on I got 4 more awesome top jugglers to announce and I cant until I sell 200 tickets help me make this be the best juggling convention ever!
Word of mouth is the best way to spread the new convention to everyone so even if you cant make it, tell others, so they can come have fun!
Can I ask why your event is more expensive than the BJC (I buy early bird but your website doesn't suggest the ability to do this for your event) but also shorter? Yours is an unknown and I believe that you were aiming to get Arts Council funding for it, whereas I pretty much know what I am getting with a BJC. I'm asking because whilst I would like to go (mainly because of David Cain) I have no incentive to book early and it is at a time of year when I might get a lot of work suddenly.
> Can I ask why your event is more expensive than the BJC
BJC tickets just went up to £130; Catch tickets are £100. Shome mishtake shurely?
yeah..i dont quite know what you mean I just looked and BJC says its 130?? and mine (CATCH) is £100?
or was the BJC 90 or something until recently??? sorry I cant give a good answer but I'm not sure if this was just a mistake
Also if you think you will have to work lots and can not take the holiday to come then thats okay, no worries! it can be hard to get holidays to go to all the juggling event you want, i would end up with most of the year off! haha
take care! x
BJC was £90 or £100 when I pre-reg'd back in whenever. It's gone up now but then there is a reason why there are early bird tickets. The point was I was asking about your price compared to what I paid for BJC tickets because BJC is firstly a known festival, is a day longer and is being subsidised by the Arts Council. As someone who normally brings a small troop (aka my family) I do look at the cost of the ticket. If I'm not working I might well turn up myself but maybe not bring the other 4. Did you price Catch based on full price BJC tickets? Did you consider early bird tickets? Why are 17 year olds priced as adults when they don't earn as adults? (and yes I know the BJC is worse for teenagers). Also as someone who runs a youth circus (soon to be a community circus) it isn't just me I ask for. I tend to promote events that might interest others I know and your answer came across poorly.
take care! x
I'm not sure if you're aware of how aggressive you're coming across Nigel.
I'm sure you're not intending to do so, you're just trying to work out where the value is coming from for the ticket price - which is a reasonable question!
I get that text is a difficult medium to express tone in, however I have felt a little bit awkward reading your posts on this matter to be honest, and I'm not the one putting the event on!
It is, of course, entirely up to you what you spend your money on. CATCH! and BJC are different events.
I'm looking at the two of them, and think that personally CATCH! has more of the sort of stuff that I like, and it's a one-off event that I'm not going to get two chances to attend - so I'm happy to put my money on that horse. I'm aware that I have different criteria than you, I'm aware that I have different limitations I have to take into account. Horses for courses!
Berating Rosie for pricing her event at £10 more than the BJC advance ticket price (a price which doesn't represent what the majority of BJC attendees will pay) seems a little OTT.
take care! x
(BTW I'm liking this new way of signing off posts, I mean, I know Nigel was doing it passive-agressively, but we should do more of this wishig-people-well stuff!)
I don't see berating coming from Nigel. I see an honest question inspired by an earnest desire to know the reasoning behind the pricing, along with suggestions of points that convention organisers ought to be considering.
My first question was completely genuine and not meant in any way aggressively. I thought that the reply was dismissive and aggressive and I tried to add to my question without being a complete arsehole. I'm sorry that I am coming across as aggressive because I thought the question was relevant.
Take care. (not sure about the x)
I also found this overly aggressive. I can't see anything dismissive or aggressive in Rosie's reply to you but seeing as she was the second person to question the logic of your first post giving her the benefit of the doubt & explaining your position would have been a better approach.
If juggling festivals were simply a profit making venture I would understand the reasoning that pricing should be based on other 'competing' events. But seeing as juggling festivals are thankfully not a winner takes all capitalist venture organisers should base the ticket price on the cost of running their festival. If you set prices based on the cost of someone else's festival you are on a road to ruin.
Catch! is being held in the summer holiday season when venues & event equipment are usually at a premium so I'm impressed Rosie has kept the cost down. I spent considerably more than £100 to see Kris Kremo at EJC 2006 & it was well worth it.
Take care! x (I might auto-append that to all posts...)
As stated, I booked early bird because firstly it helps BJC and secondly it is cheaper. Catch! doesn't have an early bird price so there is no incentive to book early on. This means that Rosie will have no idea of numbers and if the weather forecast for that week is appalling (which can happen in the Lake district) less people will have the incentive to go as they will have left it until later to book their tickets (or not booked at all). If numbers are not relevant to her convention (because of alternate funding) then why put the price at £100 (which doesn't compare well with early bird BJC ticket price as BJC is longer).
I'm not doing BJC this year, our plan is to do CATCH! instead.
However, I'm changing job around Easter and I can't say for sure if I'll be able to book the time off until then, but as soon as I'm able to I'll be jumping on the booking form!
thank you! and we've still got some great names to come!
who would be on your wish list? maybe we can make it happen! :D
Oh goodness...this will be a very /me/ list. And mostly people I would want to talk to at fests, rather than perform:
Dave Kelly (what's he up to these days?)
Strictly for performers...hard to say. Maybe Alexander Kulakov? Maybe a whipping diaboloist?
excellent list!!...i know most of those without having to even look them up..i must be getting better at this!
also maybe one of the names you've mentioned will be there! keep an eye on our website/facebook for artist announcements :D
I haven't booked yet as I need to have a good think about my finances.
To be honest, I had to reappraise my attendance when I found out that cooking won't be allowed on the campsite.
(It sounds like that's out of the control of the convention organisers as it's a restriction of the site licence. Also, the convention seems to be planning to add a space elsewhere where campers can cook.)
But it's a right faff to carry a cooker, pans, and food over to a dedicated cooking area for every meal for a week. That would seriously impact my enjoyment of the festival.
So instead I've decided to look at it as being like the BJC, where it's more practical to just buy all meals from the caterers. But that adds quite a financial burden, effectively doubling the ticket cost for me.
So I would still very much like to come, but it really depends on how much money I have nearer the time!
no problem dude! take the time to make sure its the right decision, and don't put yourself under a financial burden just for a juggling convention!
Hope to see you there!
What time does the campsite open? And close? I've a long drive, so would have to work out my travels times/days.
I don't frequently check this site so apologies for a delayed response!
Campsite is opening Monday afternoon, at the moment we're saying 2 in the afternoon.
Everyone off site by 6pm Friday
What ever happened to ... ?
So, I found myself thinking about Jouni Temonen, a fabulous juggler from Finland who I met maybe a dozen or so years ago, and he's one of those really great jugglers who seems to have dropped completely off the radar. And I started wondering whether it's because he's doing better, more professional things, or perhaps he's got a proper job/life/baby or whatever and doesn't really inhabit the juggling world so much any more.
And then that got me thinking about Joost Dessing, and wondering what on earth he's up to now. And the more you think about it, the more gifted talents you will remember that seem to have disappeared off the scene for one reason or another.
So who do you recall, who was infuriatingly talented but has since moved on with their lives?
Maybe Michael Falkov. One of the best 3b jugglers ever (IMO, top 3, arguably the very top), but is super off-grid. Not sure if he's juggled in the last ~2 years.
Reuben Cohn-Gordon, Arron Gregg & Anthony Gatto (obviously!) are the names who immediately spring to my mind.
Similarly, is it my imagination or is the 'lifetime' of a juggler getting shorter? For example I feel that the more recent BYJotY competitors have not remained as visible in the scene as the earlier competitors (Norbi, Tiff, Tom Derrick, Arron Sparks, Jon Udry, Matt Pang etc.). Has the increased average skill level & easier access to the 'next big thing' made staying in the community's consciousness harder? Has the top level of juggling reached the point where physical limits are being hit & injury is forcing people out sooner?
Oof, I definitely miss Reuben Cohn-Gordon. I had a brief chat with him May 2014 when I was getting into squeeze catches. At that point he implied that he was still juggling some. Maybe there's hope.
It's an interesting point about youngins not staying on the scene as long these days. I got curious about IJA juniors winners...and I wish I knew if more of them still juggled. Below are some of the winners and whether or not they still juggle (to my knowledge)
Komei Aoki - Yes
Takashi Kikyo - Yes
Tony Pezzo - YES
Billy Watson - ?
Nate Martin - ?
Teruki Okamoto - I think so
Ben Hestness - ?
David Ferman - ?
Jack Levy - ?
Noah Malone - Yes
David Ferman - ?
Lauge Benjaminsen - Yes
David Ferman - ?
Jack Denger - ? (stopped making videos)
Patrick Fraser - Pretty much stopped
Kellin Quinn - YES
Jack Denger - ?
Ashley Ellis - ?
Ashley Ellis - ?
It seems to me that the number of people entering BYJOTY has reduced and that the average skill level is also less. Whether this is because the people attending BJC are getting older (and hence less youngsters are around to compete) or the general skill level is higher and so the good youngsters don't stand out so much or some other reason I couldn't say. Still at least a few of the recent winners are still very much on the scene and in the community consciousness. It was only about 4 years ago that Arthur Hyam won.
As well as other things in life getting in the way, one thing I've noticed based mainly on myself and is that as you get older you tend to seek praise from others less. This is why we make juggling videos of ourselves. As I get older I'm juggling just as much but making far fewer videos. People therefore think I've stopped juggling. I was recently asked to film a section for a video about people who've stopped juggling!
What Joost is up to is very easy to find [he is based in Queen's in Belfast]. His research seems to have veered towards football rather than juggling (probably related to sources of funding).
You can now include links to instagram posts in the records section.
We also have a new +ringonankle modifier for Norbi Gatto style 'with a ring spinning on the ankle' type tricks.
That is all.
That should've been Norbi/Gatto. I'm pretty sure Norbi has not married into Nick's family.
Although I can't say that with complete certainty.
There is. In Reddit, Facebook, Instagram, blogs, forums, Uncle Tom Cobbleigh and all ...
Not strictly speaking juggling, but you're the sort of people who may be able to help.
I'm looking for a reliable UK supplier of qualatex 260q modelling balloons. We've ordered two batches recently from different sellers on amazon, the first sent us balloons with a best before date of 2013 (not great for a natural latex product, but I went with it at the time as it was only to amuse my nices/nephew - and I just put up with the high burst rate)
However, the more recent seller subbed in a different brand of balloons to that which was advertised. That sales are being dealt with via the appropriate returns procedure, but having bitten twice now, I want a reliable supplier with a reasonable enough turnover of stock that I'm not going to be shipped something that's 4 years past its best before date.
Ideally I want somewhere that carries stock of the single colours, but I'll take a standard entertainer mix.
Do you have any mates in Bristol who are balloon modellers? Or do any of the local entertainers know a local balloon modeller? People who do it regularly tend to buy in large quantities (as it is quite a bit cheaper) e.g. I tend to buy 50 entertainers assortment bags per order (and occasionally some single colours as blues and pinks are more popular). This lasts me about 6 months and I don't do that much balloon modelling so someone who is much more into it will have a quicker turnover.
Last time I looked, which was quite a while ago, Pioneer were the UK distributors for Qualatex. They were always quick and efficient with me. Or I could just give you some.
As far as I can tell Pioneer (or at least that particular Pioneer) are a US outfit, however it simply hadn't occurred to me to look for a list of distributors on the Qualatex website.
They list quite a few UK distributors (although unfortunately none in Bristol) so I might go down that route.
Likewise, it didn't occur to me to examine my inbox for unread spam from the buggers. Graham Lee is the chap to speak to - email@example.com - or use his Qualatex addy - firstname.lastname@example.org
But I expect you're ahead of the curve by now.
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