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Guili -

I've been training for 7 balls these last 4 months. At some point I've got sidetracked by other stuff like 6b, bounce juggling and the long-lasting dream of 5 clubs.
now, the question is:


  • Should I focus on 7 balls only untill I get to some level?

  • Or should I keep on training on every front like I am?

This is a competition thread which ran from 4th Jun 2018 to 11th Jun 2018. View results.

Mats1 - - Parent

Try to dedicate 20-30 minutes of each training session (ideally as close to daily as possible) to 7 balls and you will see good (slow) improvement. All the rest of the time could go to anything. IMO learning 7 balls will make almost all other tricks you are practicing more easy and is one of the big milestones (the biggest IMO) to being an advanced juggler.

Guili - - Parent

thanks man! and I totally agree. these days I've been trying this stuff that got me sidetracked, and I was surprised to see that it was easier for me than I thought.
But I also consider 5 clubs to be one of those milestones... I really want that too. haha

But the advice stands. I will save 20-30 minutes each session for my 7b. thanks!

Mats1 - - Parent

Good luck with it! Be sure to post up your first qualify / 50 catches / 100 catches or whatever you consider a good milestone. IMO 5 clubs will be much faster to learn if you can get 50+ catches of 7 balls.

Guili - - Parent

sure! I'm really close now! the other day got to 13 catches!! (to drop, not collected) but, i'm 1 catch away from qualifying:)

7b_wizard - - Parent

undecided.

[ no advice - just maybe a take-it-or-leave-it helpful aspect here or there: ]

Doing 7b only is consequent and the direct way, at times stomping through the mud with strong will and decision. You can get (fixated and) stuck without knowing why, so getting feedback or asking what might be going bad, surely spares a lot of ``own investigation´´ (if you even notice that a change is necessary). You then get kinda behind with anything else you want to be able to juggle.
I think this is good for pushing when you feel, you're not far away from a next level that you have already felt while doing and gotten great launches or great patterns or smooth patterns kept up or done in an easier way or anything. Good for pushing smaller part time goals that you think lie near to what you can get soon.

Doing also other stuff with less balls or props or genuinely other stuff (e.g. while skating, or whatever) will make you have improvement and get used to the feeling of achieving something. You get an overall feeling for when tricks are ``ripe´´ or still too hard to spend a lot of time on, instead first breaking it down to their easier parts or elements and get that well done first (in a reasonable logical progression). It's simply fun to discover what all else juggling has to offer. ( But 7b was always my n° 1 priority and I spend the hugest time on them. )

I personally feel best with having my 7b priority ( nowadays 9b when I wanna take advantage of good conditions, in winter indoors, it was 5b rev ), but also always try to do a reasonable (minimum) amount of time for other stuff too.

But there's Haavard Hvidsten who seems to have no plan or doesn't commit to an overall structured practise, but more or less spontaneously takes up props to do whatever he likes in a moment, and it got him to worldclass juggling. And there's that "Gatto practise" doing many tricks a few minutes e-ve-ry sin-gle day. So, there's as many possible approaches to structure or not one's practise, I guess, and you might have to find out what suits you best, what you feel best with.

A'll say "2" .. there's always time for a little ``leisure´´, for playing around with props, or for fast improvement on cool few prop tricks.

For example, at your current level, being pretty comfortable with 6b so far, I'd think, you can maybe improve on those with only little practise time, while I don't think, completely neglecting 7b can make you improve there ( you don't start where last practise stopped, but you have get into it all over again each time). So, staying tuned at least with a minimum amount of practise time for the improtant tricks, can be another helpful way to cope with wanting several tricks.

Guili - - Parent

As usual, you sound wise beyond your years, but I don't really know how old are you, haha.
so, anyway, thanks buddy! I knew this topic was suitable for a long argument, and it could define my next years of practice, that's why I ask, as you say, to spare some "own investigation".
For years i've juggled without a practice "policy", you know, just like you say Haavard Hvidsten does. but only a few hours a week.
Now i'm practicing every day, with a routine. ok, it is allways changing, evolving, thanks to the input of my dear jugglingEdge palls like you :) but i now feel I'm moving towards something, like in one direction.

Marvin - - Parent

This competition has now ended with 8 votes cast. The results are:

  1.   Should I focus on 7 balls only untill I get to some level? (1 vote)
  2.   Or should I keep on training on every front like I am? (7 votes)

7b_wizard -

How many juggling (or artistry, magic, object manipulation, whatever got you here) bookmarks (or: browser "favourites"), text or vid or also to software, anything "juggling", do you have?
.. and including secondary links that you keep for e.g. juggling background only or mainly ( e.g. learning theory, anatomy, history, showbizz, artistry in general, programming of juggling, etc. ).
[ no need to count, a rough estimation will do ]

  1. none.
  2. 1 to 5.
  3. about upto 15
  4. around upto 25
  5. 25 - 50
  6. 50 - 100
  7. 100 - 200
  8. MORE
  9. unclear, too fuzzily defined to tell, too much overlap (e.g. "browser\\offline", "juggling\\non-juggling\\artistry\\..", sources of any kind)


[ °wow° .. what a parentheses' mess once again lol - sry for that, but tried to make it halfway defined, un-misconceivable, able to nail, to find oneself in it, represent many ]

This is a competition thread which ran from 4th Jun 2018 to 11th Jun 2018. View results.

Mike Moore - - Parent

146 videos listed under my Youtube playlist "3b juggling ideas" alone, then many of my favourites are juggling. I also have a Mendeley account with a juggling folder for any academic articles on Juggling.

Much of what I do for fitness/nutrition are also for juggling, so I think I'll be in that MORE category!

Daniel Simu - - Parent

I've just tried to count the juggling videos in my youtube playlists, and estimate them to be around 360... That's definitely the most important source of 'bookmarks'. I don't tend to save written texts on the internet after I've read them (I save them if I want to read them later), as I can nearly always find them again through google using words I remember. Finding videos again is much harder as you search using text to find moving images....

Mike Moore - - Parent

I save the academic journal articles because they're typically behind paywalls. I have access to them at the moment, but not for too much longer.

Marvin - - Parent

This competition has now ended with 8 votes cast. The results are:

  1.   none. (1 vote)
  2.   1 to 5. (1 vote)
  3.   about upto 15 (0 votes)
  4.   around upto 25 (0 votes)
  5.   25 - 50 (1 vote)
  6.   50 - 100 (1 vote)
  7.   100 - 200 (1 vote)
  8.   MORE (3 votes)
  9.   unclear, too fuzzily defined to tell, too much overlap (e.g. "browser\\offline", "juggling\\non-juggling\\artistry\\..", sources of any kind) (0 votes)

7b_wizard - - Parent

Thanks all for voting!

I said 200, maybe a bit more, but I don't think notably more.

Apart from the examples already mentionned in titlepost, I have - of course - video-links, mostly numbers, then like teaching offers' homepages (even from other sports like tennis as a compare), in several categories, like prop-shops, sewing own balls, siteswaps, records pages, scientific e.g. biokinematics e.g. perception, a mostly empty "going pro" folder with undercategories "ship, street, therapeutic, circus-school, varieté, camp-workshopping, possible sports that juggling is possible compensation or exercise for, and more such mingle-mangle.

Guili -

hi there fellow jugglers!
I've been training 7b for the last few months. I feel currently at the edge of pulling it off. and I was wondering how long it took other people to get it.
so here, my first poll. hope i make it right...

How long it took you to qualify 7 balls?


  1. a few months

  2. a year

  3. a few years

This is a competition thread which ran from 6th Mar 2018 to 13th Mar 2018. View results.

Mike Moore - - Parent

From what reference?

From when I started juggling? From when I started trying 7b?

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Qualifying 7 balls usually takes me about 4.5 seconds..

Guili - - Parent

yeah, i guess i mean time you spent really focused on it.
I've been training allmost exclusevely for 7b this last 2 months, maybe I tried throwing 7 before, but never like this time.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Combining an old FB video and JE data...

My first flash: April 21, 2009. I had been working on it hard since the beginning of that month, and less hard since the beginning of the ~year

My first (maybe?) qualify: Aug 26th, 2009. At least, that's when I have 15 catches logged on the JE records page.

I guess I'll vote for a few months then! I recall that was a pretty juggly summer.

7b_wizard - - Parent

 Undecided between 2. and 3. I wasn't juggling regularly at the time, only when the weather was nice in summers and not even always then.
 I remember endlessly going for a whole launch \flash, then later being round a few rethrows like upto 11 for a long time, and again a long time to to get all balls not only rethrown once but also caught. I think, 3. comes closest.
 I haven't been as fast a learner, as I always thought I were, but being wrong on that kept me going enthusiastically :o) and now I'm looking foreward to knockin' on worldclass'sses door by doing a 7b all up 180° prospectively in a few decades only, you know.

Guili - - Parent

you'll get it! eventually... :)

James Hennigan - - Parent

The gap between my first 7b flash and my first 7b qualify was almost a year (305 days). I wasn't working on it at the time though. All of my attention was on my 6 ball patterns.

Solander - - Parent

I never was that interested in learning 7 balls. I had this idea that I wanted to master a number before going to the next. Mastering, for me, was 500 catches, and I'm not there with 6 yet. :P After a few years I tried flash 7 and got it within not that many tries on a train station, I remember. :P Now I have just below 200 catches with 7 but the qualify took be a few years, I think, since I didn't practice it that much. :)

Marvin - - Parent

This competition has now ended with 10 votes cast. The results are:

  1.   a few months (4 votes)
  2.   a year (1 vote)
  3.   a few years (5 votes)

7b_wizard -

Do you juggle more than you walk?

  1. Yes.
  2. No.
  3. Not sure.

This is a competition thread which ran from 17th Feb 2018 to 25th Feb 2018. View results.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Kneejerk reaction: of course not!

But now that I'm thinking about it...I'm not so sure. If we exclude walks under a couple minutes, then it's very close.

Maria - - Parent

Same... If I count every step as walking, I definitely walk more than I juggle (especially since it is not uncommon to walk while juggling, too).

If I only count outdoor walking it might actually be less than the juggling, even though I walk to work every day. Or maybe about the same amount of time.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Yes - meant walking several steps at least, so also walking around to pick up dropped balls, just as much as walking out of the house anyway. But not tripping single steps to correct one's positon while juggling, and also not taking one-two steps towards a dropped ball to pick it up while already bending down, but just really normally walking upright.

Basically, if one sits or drives a lot and doesn't usually need to walk a lot, AND-OR gets long runs a lot while juggling, not walking around a lot while practising, but rather mostly standing, then there's a great chance that they'd juggle more than they walk.

Maria - - Parent

Does walking while juggling count as both walking and juggling? (For example passing patterns where you are walking... I do those a lot.)

Does walking from the kitchen to the livingroom count, or only walking more than a few steps?

7b_wizard - - Parent

[see answer & distinction two posts above] .. I don't know what made me have that thought, but it struck me that I am actually juggling way more than I walk. Why "walk"? .. well, it's sooo genuinely normal, we think we do it always and forever and it's so omnipresent, it's part of our definition as upright walking humans. Yeah .. wrong! - we don't do it as much as we think .. we have cars, bikes, trams, planes, trains, busses; we have professions and desks where we sit; and for many people, jogging, walking, taking a walk, wandering is an activity that they (have to) take extra time for. Walking is not ``always there´´ as one might easily first think.

So, one juggler might indeed be juggling (notably) more time than doing what seems granted fro a member of the human upright walking species.

( It's a bit analogue to the insight that modern (over)civilized humans don't walk anymore as much as they used to and not walk as much anymore as what they were ``originally meant for´´, but have cars and sit a lot now, instead. Just that now for juggling, and if it's true for you. )

Guili - - Parent

if we take walking as an activity, not just moving yourself through the house, like maria said, then I definetively juggle a LOT more than i walk...

7b_wizard - - Parent

Any walking counts as "human upright walk", no matter where, while what (even while juggling). Just "time walked" versus "time juggled without walking". One-two steps don't count as really "walking upright" (and it's seconds only anyway), but time of indeed really (clearly) "walking while juggling" counts as +-0, and "walking through the house" is "walking" through the house and counts as such. - Anyway - if one's answer should depend on such distinctions and it's not clear, then please choose "3. Not sure." (unclear, not definitely or positively rather "yes", not definitely or with clear tendency towards rather "no")

Little Paul - - Parent

According to fatbit I walk more than 15k steps every day (which is around 10Km apparently)

There’s no way I juggle that much!

Marvin - - Parent

This competition has now ended with 12 votes cast. The results are:

  1.   Yes. (4 votes)
  2.   No. (7 votes)
  3.   Not sure. (1 vote)

7b_wizard - - Parent

Oh wow, .. didn't expect that many "yes". But then again, all you need to not walk a lot, is simply to use the bike a lot for example, or to not move a lot at all lol except when juggling.

7b_wizard -

those freaks with their barbelly stooliabolos http://juggling.tv/16756 ( not brandnew, 2016, but I saw it for the first time )

  1. humnh, what an artificial wannabe prop. superflu.
  2. legit. but I can't be into e-ve-ry-thing there is, there's so many interesting props, but I can't get into them all.
  3. interesting, I'd try it out for sure, but not buy one and drag them around with me all the time.
  4. I like that. But they're too big and awkward.
  5. I like them. I'd buy them if they'd be easy to get (and cheap).
  6. soo cool soo freaky! definitely want a set of those.
  7. [ other, .. i own similar .. / .. yesnoyesnoyesmaybemaybenot .. / .. that's not juggling .. / .. I didn't understand that acoustically can you plz repeat .. / .. I'm currently on ginger chocolate and nothing else matters .. ]

Is there a future for these stools? should they be a bit or much smaller and lighter? more conic, convex? better to be gripped on the rim?

This is a competition thread which ran from 31st Jan 2018 to 13th Feb 2018. View results.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Sporthockers are the right size, any smaller and they wouldn't work as a hocker (stool) any more...

Is there a future for sporshockers? Of course! That's why they have been around for so many years now! But maybe not within the juggling community.

7b_wizard - - Parent

>"not work as a hocker anymore, if they were smaller"

.. yes, but maybe work better for juggling. I fancy sitting on the hocker only shortly as the finish for every move or trick would still be possible on smaller ones too. They don't look perfect for juggling to me, so maybe there could be a version adapted for juggling, optimized for easier juggling with them. Or a kind of diabolo shaped prop for juggling with hands, arms, knees, legs, .. more conic and with easier grip then.

Marvin - - Parent

This competition has now ended with 6 votes cast. The results are:

  1.   humnh, what an artificial wannabe prop. superflu. (0 votes)
  2.   legit. but I can't be into e-ve-ry-thing there is, there's so many interesting props, but I can't get into them all. (0 votes)
  3.   interesting, I'd try it out for sure, but not buy one and drag them around with me all the time. (3 votes)
  4.   I like that. But they're too big and awkward. (1 vote)
  5.   I like them. I'd buy them if they'd be easy to get (and cheap). (1 vote)
  6.   soo cool soo freaky! definitely want a set of those. (0 votes)
  7.   [ other, .. i own similar .. / .. yesnoyesnoyesmaybemaybenot .. / .. that's not juggling .. / .. I didn't understand that acoustically can you plz repeat .. / .. I'm currently on ginger chocolate and nothing else matters .. ] (1 vote)

7b_wizard -

Did you ever - as far as you're aware, of course - dream that you toss*-juggle?

    Yes:
  1. Yes. Often or sometimes and with clear memory of it.
  2. Yes, often or sometimes, but memory is dim or I forget soon or right after after waking up.
  3. Yes, once or twice. Clearly.
  4. Yes, once or twice. Dimly.

  5. Somewhat \ Maybe:
  6. Not really - only single throws and catches. Or only throws to drops. Or only slightly very shortly losing physical contact to the prop before catching it again rightaway.
  7. I think so, but I'm not sure 'cos the memory of it is dim and nebulous or mixed up.

  8. No \ Rather not:
  9. I dream of conventions or of meetings or of folks or of being in a gym or of any juggling setup or of being onstage or of having an audience or of having my props with me and in reach and getting ready, but astonishingly never do or can't manage to actually really toss and really juggle one single throw.
  10. Could have been possible, can't exclude, might have, but any corresponding memory is too dim and nebulous to really tell. Rather not.
  11. Definitely, not that I know. No memory of the kind. Nowhere near.

  12. [ other ]


*"toss" - or fly and catch a diabolo, or run a devilstick, or foot- or knee-juggle a soccer ball, headbounces, or also scarve-juggling, .. anything where you lose physical contact to your prop. And catching, or at least the intention to catch, should be included. - So, I'd like contact-juggling, contact-staff, spinning, twirling, balancing and alike to be excluded.

This is a competition thread which ran from 19th Nov 2017 to 26th Nov 2017. View results.

7b_wizard - - Parent

I'm 7. Would love to improve over night, though. Also forgot to include the choice "Constantly, it's unnerving, I wake up from it everytime I drop." lol

I can - not while dreaming, but when awake - visualize throws (and then upto where they fly until I do the next throw to focus on, which is about to their apex), but then don't know where the balls are for catching (they sort of fade or vanish in a still life from where I last pictured them), .. so, when visualizing more rounds after launch, I have to take the catches for granted (and from seeing balls at launch before my mind's eye, I go over to instead feeling my handmovement + thrust + aiming or so). [ #dream #visualize ]

Scott Seltzer - - Parent

I think I've only ever dreamt of juggling once. I dream of juggling conventions fairly often. There frequently isn't any juggling in the juggling convention dreams, but I know I'm at a juggling convention. I'll give myself a 7.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Okay. Sounds more like "maybe, rather yes" to me(?). Then maybe 3. or 4, (both definite "yes"), if you're sure, you did, or 6. if you're you're not all sure, but positively think you did, would fit better? - 7. was really more meant as an "almost, but definitely not" .. everything is ready and setup to juggle, but you don't or can't or don't know how (the emphasis is not on the surroundings-story, but just to elude on "nearly could and should've but it didn't happen"). Actually, I meant the poll to find out how many are even able to juggle while dreaming. (But, hey, whatever you think! I'm happy about everyone who finds a choice that fits him.)

7b_wizard - - Parent

It's not all clear: does "you think" in "I think I've only ever dreamt of juggling once." refer to "dreamt of juggling" or to "ever only once"? Do or do you not have a memory of indeed yourself juggling?

Scott Seltzer - - Parent

I've definitely dreamt about juggling conventions. I may have dreamt about actual juggling. I don't usually remember my dreams well nor conversations about them. I slightly remember discussing having a juggling dream that wasn't the usual so I think I may have been juggling in it. Or perhaps I actually saw juggling (as the convention dreams don't usually (or ever?) have juggling in them. It's all a bit hazy for sure. I'm a definite 7 and maybe a 4 but I won't commit to that.

Maria - - Parent

I have dreamt I was passing clubs at least twice. I don't remember details (like what pattern or passing partners) but I think I remembered a bit more right after I woke up. I believe I woke up in the middle of the pattern, not after dropping. Good dreams. :)

I'll put that as a 4.

Have definitely dreamt of juggling conventions a few times, too. At least more times than about actual juggling... As far as I can remember, of course.

Maria - - Parent

...and shortly after I wrote that answer I slept and dreamed about working out new take-out passing patterns (on paper and by walking through the moves) together with another passer that I know from conventions. I know who the other juggler was but not what pattern we were working on. No actual juggling in that dream, though.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Double yes:
First without effort, and second when I was learning to lucid dream.

(I don't bother with lucid dreaming anymore)

7b_wizard - - Parent

Awesome. Can you still recall that ´´film´´, can you remember the pattern(s) and if you juggled same that you juggle when you really juggle (awake) or better and harder pattern(s), did it feel like real juggling with you controlling, acting & reacting, or did it somehow ´´hover´´, go all by itself, with you being able to watch like your own audience, was it °-.,~°happy°~.,.-°, did you ´´upgrade´´ first step to superhuman juggler, did it impact on your real juggling or did it rather seem as a fulfilment of your real juggling, a confirmation, a validation, a corroboration burnt by and into subconsciousness as affirmation?

Mike Moore - - Parent

The first time I dreamt about juggling was the most memorable. Myself and many friends were lined up to enter jail cells (for some unknown reason, but we were all resigned to it). I was among the first group locked away, but at the time (when awake), I'd often vaguely fantasized about going to jail and juggling all day, every day. I juggled a 3b cascade while sitting on some riser (a crate?). I dropped, the ball went off my foot and rolled out of the cell to a yet-to-be restrained friend of mine. They shot me such a nasty look that it woke me up.

When I was practicing lucid dreaming, I dreamt of practicing 7b cascade (probably half a dozen times or so). I didn't find that it helped, and found that I woke less rested than usual when this happened, so I stopped. Maaaybe this helped me "feel" what it was like to run it, but I doubt it had any real benefit. I was able to slow things down, see things from a third party point of view, etc.

7b_wizard - - Parent

fantasized about going to jail and juggling all day, every day.

I - when awake - sometimes have that martial arts movie-picture ("The snake in the shadow of the Eagle" or sth) of Jackie Chan training (barehanded) in a desert in my mind's eye, or that guy with his nunchucks-like three-parts-staff practising.

Nice story!

Sobers me up a bit that it shouldn't have any practise effect as I imagined. I'd still do it, though :o) (°gee° slomo, zoom at will, third party view - sounds sooo cool!)

Jan Poolen - - Parent

Yes, fun question. I remember it vividly.
First time I dreamed of flashing 7 clubs under the low ceilling at the place where I used to take breaks while juggling at the squash courts.
Second time I dreamed doing exactly 50 catches of 9 balls and being really content about my achievment(maybe one day I will really do it, and be satisfied in real life )
Third time, I did 5 connected db97531's with balls while sitting down on a chair.
Sweet dreams

7b_wizard - - Parent

So cool! Amazing. Did you also feel the juggling in your hands or just rather like watched yourself do it?

Marvin - - Parent

This competition has now ended with 11 votes cast. The results are:

  1.   Yes. Often or sometimes and with clear memory of it. (2 votes)
  2.   Yes, often or sometimes, but memory is dim or I forget soon or right after after waking up. (0 votes)
  3.   Yes, once or twice. Clearly. (2 votes)
  4.   Yes, once or twice. Dimly. (1 vote)
  5.   Not really - only single throws and catches. Or only throws to drops. Or only slightly very shortly losing physical contact to the prop before catching it again rightaway. (1 vote)
  6.   I think so, but I'm not sure 'cos the memory of it is dim and nebulous or mixed up. (1 vote)
  7.   I dream of conventions or of meetings or of folks or of being in a gym or of any juggling setup or of being onstage or of having an audience or of having my props with me and in reach and getting ready, but astonishingly never do or can't manage to actually really toss and really juggle one single throw. (1 vote)
  8.   Could have been possible, can't exclude, might have, but any corresponding memory is too dim and nebulous to really tell. Rather not. (0 votes)
  9.   Definitely, not that I know. No memory of the kind. Nowhere near. (3 votes)
  10.   [ other ] (0 votes)

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Yeah Marvin, you did the thing!

7b_wizard - - Parent

[ #dreaming #visualizing ]
Had one clear dream now too: with 4 or 5 big green bell peppers [ surely due to a current fruit-prop thread on reddit and me recently buying much bigger than usual single unpacked big green peppers (not three of mixed colors, packed) ].
[Makes my vote for "7", now a "3", makes it overall 6 in 11 Dreamers, 2 Maybies, 3 Non-Dreamers].
I could remember it clearly right after I woke up during it, and clearly reminisc parts of it. But alas already can't remember it well anymore, now.
Mostly snapped-in fluent pattern, little to no correcting, no effort felt. Not sure anymore if it felt overwhelming (maybe that a bit too) or rather like a normal thing to do (rather that). Now, which pattern? - memory is mixed now: I think a clear rather big clean 5b cascade. But also I have some gaps or holds and 4b juggling in mind, maybe a 4b-7707700 [inspired by Giuli's 1-7 ball Sevens?] or 552. Those veggies didn't handle clunkily as they should've with their stems and not round, but always just the way you usually grasp them, or near like how I imagine larger stage balls would too [I've been wanting to use larger balls for 7b for a while].
Again very dim memory only of where it took place, I think on some lawn in a park with people around.
Nice mind-candy, more than welcome.

7b_wizard -

What's the longest toss-juggling endurance you ever did?

(no matter which pattern, which prop)

  1. I don't really endure anything
  2. less than a minute
  3. between 1 and 3 min
  4. between 3 and 5 min
  5. between 5 and 10 min
  6. between 10 and 30 min
  7. between 30 min and 1 h
  8. between 1 and 4 h
  9. marathon, more than 4 h


I hope to find - if many of us vote - how popular or common enduring even is (and for how long).

This is a competition thread which ran from 9th Nov 2017 to 16th Nov 2017. View results.

It's Him - - Parent

About 25 years ago I worked for a juggling stall that had a competition which was to juggle 3 x 1.5 Kg Splats as long as possible. I think the winner was about 45 minutes. Shortly after that I tried to match that time with 3 x 1 Kg Absolutes. I matched it but killed my wrists doing it and suffered from tendonitis for quite a while. I'm not sure that endurance is necessarily the way to go but it made for an interesting competition.

Nigel

Daniel Simu - - Parent

What are Splats and Absolutes? I know Absolute rings but they are definitely not 1kg :p

The Void - - Parent

Big beanbags.

Ameron Rosvall - - Parent

Sounds very painful, can kinda relate, though what you did must have been worse. I did 3 beanbags with wrist weights for 1 hour once, beanbags were just 200g each and weights were 1.5kg each. Still very exhausting.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Longest endurances have been my worst dropless joggling races

Maria - - Parent

I did my longest endurance when I had only juggled for two years. It was 20 minutes of 3 clubs cascade. I'm not planning on doing any longer endurance of any pattern.

7b_wizard - - Parent

°oupps° .. a logical inconsistency in the poll again: ..ever did? versus 1. ..don't really now..

Please read ( 1. I don't really endure anything ) as "1. I never really endured anything."!

Maria - - Parent

That is how I understood it.
I was thinking, though... If you want to find out how popular endurance is, it might also be interesting to know if people are planning/hoping to achieve longer runs in the future, and how long. I have no desire to spend a lot of time trying to get as long runs as possible any more, but I would like to be able to do patterns for, like, 5 minutes or something. But I guess that wouldn't really count as endurance, it would more be about getting the pattern really solid.

7b_wizard - - Parent

I'm not planning to do anything longer than my 3b 12 minutes. Yes, especially for important basic patterns, 5 minutes is pretty much okay for me too. Yet, with 5 min x 60 sec x ~5~6 throws/sec = ~1,500 throws, that I got near to once only with 5 balls, I still don't feel like really having ``mastered´´ the pattern, it's far from ``like walking´´. So either I'll have to get more runs over 1,000 or indeed do many more throws and minutes. But it's sooo time intensive while learning tricks and other patterns instead is much more rewarding (and hard and challenging enough and worthwhile too).

Maria - - Parent

I have not been close to 5 minutes with any other pattern than 3 objects cascade yet. Could probably do it with a basic passing pattern with the right partner (6 clubs 4-count, 2-count or 3-count). Solo patterns... maybe 423 could work.
I'm definitely not even close with 4 objects, my personal record being just a little bit over 200 catches. But that might actually be a bit of an endurance thing, I do get tired when juggling 4 clubs. Arms starting to get tired before 100 catches, and my pulse is definitely high, too.

Yeah, it's more fun to learn new tricks and patterns than spending lots of time on the ones that already kind of works.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Mine was 12+ minutes of 3b cascade.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

2360c of 5b. that would be about 10m I suppose

pumpkineater23 - - Parent

1 - 3 minutes..

Marvin - - Parent

This poll has now ended. The results are:

  1.   I don't really endure anything (0 votes)
  2.   less than a minute (0 votes)
  3.   between 1 and 3 min (1 vote)
  4.   between 3 and 5 min (1 vote)
  5.   between 5 and 10 min (4 votes)
  6.   between 10 and 30 min (8 votes)
  7.   between 30 min and 1 h (6 votes)
  8.   between 1 and 4 h (2 votes)
  9.   marathon, more than 4 h (0 votes)

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Ey Marvin, I know I could easily add up the numbers myself, but would you consider posting the total amount of votes next time as well? (22 this time)
If you're interested, you could even go as far as showing the percentage of voters that voted for a particular option. (36% voted for nr6)

Marvin - - Parent

Yes, I can include the total number of votes cast. Totting up a few tiny integers for you is an excellent use of my mental capacity. Do you find percentages useful when the total votes is considerably under 100?

And no, I have never been interested in any of these polls.

Monte - - Parent

Here I am, brain the size of a planet. Count they tell me. Call that job satisfaction,'cause I don't.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

It's not so much about a percentage as it is about quickly seeing that about one third of the voters voted for number 6, which is not easy to see right now. Of course, as a statistic it is near meaningless with such few participants.

7b_wizard -

practise versus ``talent´´

(no matter which level you're on - just started or world champion ..)
How much do you think that all your skills are (to which part) a result of practise or hard ``work´´, perseverance, or else
(to which part) did they ``come to you´´ by a natural preference for juggling (or object manipulation or artistry oror) or by a natural predisposition or a love for juggling making learning easier (than e.g. for the average juggler, or e.g. than learning another skill or art of motion or sportive activity)?

  1. no talent or predisposition or preference - it's 100% hard work or perseverant regular practise or strong will only got me there.
  2. some talent or predisposition or preference - but mostly practise or work or perseverance or strong will.
  3. a good portion of talent or predisposition or preference - but somewhat more practise or work or perseverance or strong will.
  4. about equal.
  5. somewhat more talent or predisposition or preference - but it couldn't have grown & developed without a notable and regular amount of practise or work or perseverance or strong will.
  6. notably more talent or predisposition or preference - but it won't yield without a bit of practise or coping with or some will to improve.
  7. I learn extremely fast and don't see upper limits below highest levels. I think, I'm a ``natural´´.
  8. other \ depends \ easy for s'swaps and few prop tricks, but hard for numbers \ easy for basic patterns, but hard for tricks


A few aspects helping to answer:
Even Gatto said sth like, there's no such thing talent on his level or for him - it was all hard hard work.
Think of what you can't do even though you think you should.
Was your decision or how you got to juggling totally intrinsic (=absolutely "yours" and the only thing to do, ``necessary´´ in a way) or could it just aswell have been something else, another hobby or activity.
Do you see yourself improving and learning much faster than others (that's the point, not learning easy stuff fast only).
Do others admire the speed you improve or learn (while you yourself might not have noticed).

And a question that I'm interested in:
Do you think or have you experienced a hidden talent waking up after already having juggled for a good while? Do you think that's possible to ``wake up the natural inside you´´?

This is a competition thread which ran from 30th Sep 2017 to 10th Oct 2017. View results.

7b_wizard - - Parent

I myself am somewhere between 2 and 3, but sill blundering a real lot when not yet warmed up or when not concentrating, also failing over long phases, makes me say "2", even though I hope for it to become easier, maybe the natural skill inside waking up, some day when I've reached my goals and then not having to so much do at the limit anymore. I don't think I'd have gotten where I am without the inner decision to dedicate to the 7b cascade, which is maybe rather a preference than ``natural talent´´, who knows.

7b_wizard - - Parent

If i get 13 catches of 9b today or 7b > 100 c, I'll change to "5" ;o])

Daniel Simu - - Parent

You're asking multiple questions at once, which makes it hard to answer correctly...

I think I have some but little natural talent in learning object manipulation skills. However I am extremely predisposed to love juggling which makes it incredibly easy to spend countless hours on practice. So effectively my natural affection for juggling makes me a good juggler?

7b_wizard - - Parent

Yes, [>>"multiple wording"<<], wanted to include a wide range of viewpoints for "talent\\not talent".

Okay, that makes it a bit difficult ("little natural talent, but love for juggling making practise easy"),
but, as the question is scaled along "talent vs. practise", I'd say, your description says, that your love for juggling sort of enables or helps you to make up for little natural talent. But you don't sound, like new skills ``come to you´´ or that your natural afffection for juggling makes learning (notably) easier than for the average juggler or than another activity - at least not in a way that would spare you to still having to practise a whole lot. That would be a clear "2", I'd say.

So, @ all, if in doubt, feel free to read the options as roughly ..

1. 0-5% talent - 95-100% practise (hard work only)
2. 5-25% talent - 75-95% practise
3. 25-45% talent - 55-75% practise
4. 45-55% talent - 45-55% practise (equal)
5. 55-75% talent - 25-45% practise
6. 75-95% talent - 5-25% practise
7. 95-100% talent - 0-5% practise (pure talent, just do it and it will naturally succeed in ridiculously short time)

Orinoco - - Parent

I put myself down as a number 2. I think I'm very similar to Daniel, I got good at juggling because when I first started I enjoyed it so much I did nothing but practice. Perhaps because of my enjoyment I didn't realise it was 'hard work'.

peterbone - - Parent

Agreed. The choices are made a bit complex by the 'love of juggling' part, which I think makes the vote lose focus on the nature vs nurture argument. I think that any natural aptitude is very small, but I voted 2 for the same reason as you.

Interesting Gatto's comment that he thinks it was all hard work. Where does that quote come from? On his own forum years ago he said that he believes he has some kind of natural advantage and sees things "in slow motion". Although I don't believe that at all I do think that believing it helped him a lot.

Scott Seltzer - - Parent

I always thought that seeing things in slow motion is acquired. When you first start attempting 5 balls it feels frantic and crazy fast and impossible. After a while (perhaps a few years or more), it can seem slow and simple. Gravity obviously hasn't changed but your perception has.

Sometime after I was pretty solid with 5 balls, I remember when it really clicked even more and became truly effortless. I fondly remember that as my juggling nirvana.

7b_wizard - - Parent

That 'love of juggling' wording is due to me trying to exclude, that ``talent´´ (which anyway is hard to seize as notion) need be determined by some genetic predisposition, let alone by a distinct ``juggling gene´´. And I tried to allow, that a wunderkind could feel as a natural without a need to have genetic evidence, without the need to have been ``born as juggler´´, just with love of juggling, then. Also, I wanted to avoid any discussion about whether ``(genetic) talent´´ even exists or not.

That Gatto statement is nothing like a citation with a source; I had it in mind, read it somewhere - it might be a mere rumour or misinterpretation (alas, I have no idea, where I got that from).

Mike Moore - - Parent

I'd put me somewhere between 5-6. When I can dredge up enough time to practice daily, I feel my progress goes by leaps and bounds, and it seems like I could be /very/ good if I were to try to make a career of juggling (or prioritize it higher).

There are certainly people who pick things up faster than me, but that population seems to be somewhere between 10-25 % of jugglers I know. There's probably some selection bias in there.

pumpkineater23 - - Parent

I'm a 2. I find it very difficult to understand juggling patterns and I've always learned everything slower than most. My love of juggling has helped me keep up the practicing.

Marvin - - Parent

This poll has now ended. The results are:

  1.   no talent or predisposition or preference - it's 100% hard work or perseverant regular practise or strong will only got me there. (0 votes)
  2.   some talent or predisposition or preference - but mostly practise or work or perseverance or strong will. (6 votes)
  3.   a good portion of talent or predisposition or preference - but somewhat more practise or work or perseverance or strong will. (1 vote)
  4.   about equal. (0 votes)
  5.   somewhat more talent or predisposition or preference - but it couldn't have grown & developed without a notable and regular amount of practise or work or perseverance or strong will. (0 votes)
  6.   notably more talent or predisposition or preference - but it won't yield without a bit of practise or coping with or some will to improve. (1 vote)
  7.   I learn extremely fast and don't see upper limits below highest levels. I think, I'm a ``natural´´. (0 votes)
  8.   other \ depends \ easy for s'swaps and few prop tricks, but hard for numbers \ easy for basic patterns, but hard for tricks (1 vote)

7b_wizard -

How much do you  a c c e p t   h e l p,  hints or helpful feedback for improving? (no matter wherefrom, video tutorial, or person to person, shown or told or written, ororor)

  1. I am stubborn and want to make my own way all on my own even biting myself through plateaus. (thus doing purely my own way, maybe leading to my genuine 100% own style)
  2. I usually want to find my own way through and reject any help, but I thankfully take help when really badly stuck for a long time.
    .. or ..
    Practical feedback rather irritates or puzzles me, brings me out, so I'd generally prefer doing without.
    [ both options = can take, or want little help ]
  3. I am happy for help when I asked for or when the hint is good and applies.
  4. I am happy for any help I can get - I'll try everything out and filter what applies for me.
  5. Without constant help, always a teacher there to guide me, or a good resource (book, eBook, video tutorial series, ..) I would not a whit get anyhwere ahead.
  6. [ other .. no one helps .. \ .. help is always bad .. \ .. I'm immune against improving, no matter how good the help is .. \ .. There's nothing to improve - my 3b cascade is perfectly fluent. :o} ]

This is a competition thread which ran from 13th May 2017 to 22nd May 2017. View results.

Maria - - Parent

I voted 4, I'll try most things suggested by better jugglers, but I don't keep working on it if it's too boring (for example, I have not learned 4c fountain on singles, even though I have been told it could help improve my 4c fountain on doubles). I don't really come up with many ideas by myself, either. I mean, I can come up with a new combination of throws, but I don't really invent anything completely new.

As a club passer who usually passes with someone better than me, option 5 would not have been wrong either.

Maria - - Parent

...and I have not learned 5 ball cascade, even though I'm trying to learn 5 clubs.

Mike Moore - - Parent

I'm somewhere in the 3.5 camp. If I can be particular about the phrasing "when the hint is good and applies" to be "[...] as interpreted by some all-knowing being," then I'm comfortable with it. Sometimes I don't realize the hint is good until a while after it was given.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Hmhm, I see; maybe we can meet on "if a hint gets you thinking or rumors around in your mind not knowing what rhyme to make of it", then it can still either puzzle and irritate you beyond threshold, or else, you can be ``happy´´ on there being a new way waiting to be discovered some given time later. Or even else, it's stored somewhere in the unconscious until it pops up again at a given moment or remains there forever until the ``hard disk´´ (=memory) is cleaned and overwritten. ( Which still leaves the decision "happy or not about such an unclear hint" to you :o] ) .. but, yeah, if an all-knowing being knows before, read as: "If a hint will apply, later (and I will be happy about it, later)."

.. or just read "3." and "4." as:

3. Happy for help "under condition". (not "any and all the help you can get" unrestrictedly)
4. "Give it all over to me, I'll sort it out." = Any and all the help there might be is welcome. (without any restriction)

Basically the scale goes from 1. "no input whatsoever" over 2. "little help accepted", 3. ``Some´´ or ``a good deal´´ or "under condition" help accepted, 4. All, every, any help (more than) welcome, upto 5. "only with help, can't do without".

7b_wizard - - Parent

btw i'm not sure what to vote myself .. been through like all of the options 1. to 4. before, i think, and now it seems to "depend" on which pattern, which ajuggling (few ball stuff, e.g. Kraken, or else numbers techniques). Even 6., "I don't get info on what exactly is going in the brain and focus and where attention lays in distinct milliseconds." is partly true.

Guess I'll land on 3. or 4. too, as there's yet so much to discover (clubs, 5b s'swaps, selfthrows and fountains, more body range e.g. bbb, for me), .. why not spare time and effort by getting all and any help I can get to get where I want sooner.

Marvin - - Parent

This poll has now ended. The results are:

  1.   I am stubborn and want to make my own way all on my own even biting myself through plateaus. (thus doing purely my own way, maybe leading to my genuine 100% own style) (0 votes)
  2.   I usually want to find my own way through and reject any help, but I thankfully take help when really badly stuck for a long time.
    .. or ..
    Practical feedback rather irritates or puzzles me, brings me out, so I'd generally prefer doing without.
    [ both options = can take, or want little help ] (1 vote)
  3.   I am happy for help when I asked for or when the hint is good and applies. (4 votes)
  4.   I am happy for any help I can get - I'll try everything out and filter what applies for me. (4 votes)
  5.   Without constant help, always a teacher there to guide me, or a good resource (book, eBook, video tutorial series, ..) I would not a whit get anyhwere ahead. (0 votes)
  6.   [ other .. no one helps .. \ .. help is always bad .. \ .. I'm immune against improving, no matter how good the help is .. \ .. There's nothing to improve - my 3b cascade is perfectly fluent. :o} ] (0 votes)

7b_wizard -

How much of you, your time, being sportive, self-chosen active, (no matter if overall a lot or just a little), goes into juggling?

  1. 85-100%. I merely voluntarily move, unless I'm juggling.
  2. 60-85%. Juggling's not only, but overall n° 1 activity. (little other sports)
  3. 50-60%. Juggling has some priority or somewhat more time spent on among all other activities taken together.
  4. 40-50%. Juggling has rather less priority or less time spent on among all other activities taken together.
  5. 15-40%. Juggling is just one among any other activity(ies), or not so important, or even less important, or I clearly spend notably less time on juggling.
  6. 0-15%. Among any amount of sportive activities, juggling takes in the smallest part.
  7. [other]

Not counting ``necessary´´ activities like work, travelling, footwalks or so, only leisure.
I'll leave it upto you, if biking to the baker or having to do like school sports, or fitness prescribed by your doctor, pumpin' up stairs instead takin' the elevator or so is ``necessary´´, unavoidable (would then not count) or ``self-chosen´´ or ``leisure´´ (then would count as ``self-chosen sportive activity´´).
Hope, it's somewhat logically consistent - it's not about "how much" you juggle, and also not about "how sportive" or "how active" you are, but  w h i c h   p a r t  juggling takes  a m o n g  any of your other sportive activities taken together.   Thx 4 voting! :o)

This is a competition thread which ran from 3rd May 2017 to 14th May 2017. View results.

Maria - - Parent

I'd guess about 80%. A normal week has 7-8 hours juggling, and 1-2 hours other "sport activities" (going to a gym, a BodyBalance class, a long walk or something like that). I didn't count walking to and from work, though I could choose to go by bus or car instead but it's just 15-20 minutes walk.

During summer a normal week has less juggling (no scheduled practice), but then there are juggling conventions, where I don't do any sports but juggling.

I used to go for walks to relax or just get some physical activity, but most of those volontary walks have been replaced by juggling during the last years.

Orinoco - - Parent

But it's an ART!

/me runs

7b_wizard - - Parent

Haha, okay, "How much of your arty activities or any activity at all goes into juggling?".

Mike Moore - - Parent

Orin, if you don't answer this question, I'll be very disappointed!

Orinoco - - Parent

Can't answer. Still running.

Mike Moore - - Parent

+1

(Still chuckling)

Orinoco - - Parent

Hard one to judge. My two other main hobbies, (dancing & roller hockey) are much higher in intensity so they feel like they make up a much higher percentage of my active time than they probably do.

I also want to count hand balancing as juggling but that shouldn't be the case.

Austin - - Parent

Funny you should say that, as I have been playing tennis for 10 years but I still find juggling a far, far more intensive activity.

Orinoco - - Parent

Interesting.

With juggling the better I get the less effort is required. With the other two the better I get the more energy I can put in without catastrophic failure.

With dancing being in control allows me to be more exuberant & exciting which is more fun for me & more fun for most of my partners. With hockey being in control allows me to be faster which is an obvious performance advantage. The same could be true of my juggling, but when I juggle I just want to be in control, aside from playing combat I feel there is no incentive to apply unnecessary energy to my juggling.

7b_wizard - - Parent

The same could be true of my juggling, but when I juggle I just want to be in control, aside from playing combat I feel there is no incentive to apply unnecessary energy to my juggling. Humh, is that,, you're ``done with improving´´ and you're happy with what you have under control. Or else, is that exactly your way to best improve fromout controlled ajuggling, even without ``pushing´´ any?

Austin - - Parent

That makes sense, but for me the better I get the longer runs I do and the harder and more energy intensive tricks I do. I've never been one for getting easier tricks totally solid really. I don't think I'll ever reach a point where I feel good enough, because I'll never be the best so it's just a matter of being as good as I can be.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Yeah, please feel free to vote by "time invested" OR by "intensity" (or effort or zeal or dediction) put into the juggling part in compare to all other activity.

The poll should find out, what I think is interesting, if juggling is among if any or among all other your most prominent ado or activity or physical exercise or moving artistically or getting one's bottom up from the couch at all. Its priority, its importance, its significance among ``being in motion in one's free time´´.

7b_wizard - - Parent

I like to count any kind of balance - unless most focus goes into strength and balancing is the least challenging, a negligible part of the act - .. count it as very much a juggling exercise. After all, a well juggled higher pattern is always also well balanced in your airspace and relative to one's body axes.

7b_wizard - - Parent

I myself used to wander, and upto the day bike like daily (thinking of quitting that, even I think it's very healthy), sometimes for leisure swim a bit, give a nice frisbee or so, and for a while jog 5 km or run 800 m almost daily (many years ago). Now, apart from just a few minutes doing some gym, stretching, bending, or from time to time maybe doing pushups or pull ups or situps for general form and flexibility, I try to not waiste any energy that I can save for juggling. = clearly "1".

Scott Seltzer - - Parent

Aside from 2 annual juggling conventions and 1 music festival that I go to for the juggling booth, I spend approximately 0 hours/week juggling. Oh, I may get 10 juggling shows/year these days, but that's insignificant (though I do break a good sweat). I spend about 10 hours/week doing sports (tennis, running, biking). I spend around 10 hours/week with online juggling adventures.

Little Paul - - Parent

What he said (but with less time playing sport during the week and a lot more walking - minimum of 10Km a day)

I should pull my finger out and start running again, or get back down the gym. My middle age is spreading

Mike Moore - - Parent

A big reason that I do other exercise in my life is that I find it so substantially improves my juggling. When I'm practicing hard, it's about a 50-50 split between juggling and other sporty activities. When I'm being lazy, juggling makes up ~70 % of my sporty activities (despite other activities and juggling both decreasing in time).

Marvin - - Parent

This poll has now ended. The results are:

  1.   85-100%. I merely voluntarily move, unless I'm juggling. (4 votes)
  2.   60-85%. Juggling's not only, but overall n° 1 activity. (little other sports) (6 votes)
  3.   50-60%. Juggling has some priority or somewhat more time spent on among all other activities taken together. (5 votes)
  4.   40-50%. Juggling has rather less priority or less time spent on among all other activities taken together. (0 votes)
  5.   15-40%. Juggling is just one among any other activity(ies), or not so important, or even less important, or I clearly spend notably less time on juggling. (1 vote)
  6.   0-15%. Among any amount of sportive activities, juggling takes in the smallest part. (0 votes)
  7.   [other] (0 votes)

7b_wizard - - Parent

I'm not surprised .. it does say "juggling" on top and in the url after all ;o]

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