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7b_wizard -

How do you launch your numbers basic patterns?

  1. In a clear crescendo way, as a ``ladder´´, starting with lower throws getting upon height towards the later throws.
  2. A mix of 1. and 3., pretty much the same height as good as I can get it, but the very first one or two throws a bit lower. And-Or doing the two or three latest throws just a little bit higher to have the launch better well-spaced.
  3. All on the exact height required (from first throw on), thus also in the right tact.
  4. Different ways, or all of the above, or depending on which pattern, which number, or with a special initial throw or kick, or with a siteswap, or from juggling a lower number (only part of the props) with full hands.

[ #numbers #launch #technique #poll ]

This is a competition thread which ran from 26th Sep 2016 to 16th Oct 2016. View results.

James Hennigan - - Parent

Don't lots of jugglers do the opposite of 1? They throw the first ball higher and all the other throws are at regular height.

Example: https://youtu.be/Jpah1ywgZUk?start=298

7b_wizard - - Parent

Never seen this. Very interesting; it seems to earn a moment to prepare and get back in position for the steady launch with one ball less.

DavidCain - - Parent

Yes, Gatto made that method fairly popular.
David

7b_wizard - - Parent

He should then vote "4.".

No, serious: I see two slight disadvantages in that method (regardless of how much these might be outweighed by the advantages), at least when still learning:   a)   the very high first ball comes back very fast, thus is a bit harder to catch or at least ask for a different first catch, and   b)   it's out of tact and out of pattern and tact, so timing your launch to it, matching both, seems a skill on its own, maybe comparable to kicking into launch.

peterbone - - Parent

The advantage is that it makes the first throws easier when there's a lot of weight in the hands. Perhaps Anthony developed that method because he started numbers so young. I tend to do it a bit with clubs.

When flashing high numbers I prefer 1 or 2. The advantage being that they separate out in the air making the catches further apart. When running numbers I prefer 3.

7b_wizard - - Parent

I like the first two pairs of throws notably lower and wider, to have the middle free to fire the rest up keeping a slight crescendo. (Clearly "1." then, and for 9b and 7b) My 8b wimpy, I do it in a `robotic´ way all to same exact height - there's just much more time to swing up thrust in synch.

James Hennigan - - Parent

This reminded me that Anthony could juggle 5 clubs before he could even hold 5 clubs!

https://youtu.be/4TAle4wftR4?start=231

bad1dobby - - Parent

I put that down to hype - no-one does bullshit like circus does bullshit...

Daniel Simu - - Parent

To me it makes a lot of sense. The first ball is hard because the hands are heavy. You can make the first high throw easy by using the legs, and the legs add so much push that you can even make enough time to slow down the next one or two balls. With more time you can also put more force in these.. Until you quickly need to get your hands empty to make the first catches, and then stabilize into pattern hight as you only need to deal with 1 ball weight..

7b_wizard - - Parent

Ah, yeah .. ``hop´´ the first one up - forgot about that one.

And, true, yeah, .. once they're all up, be it only halfway aligned, spaced and timed, you can still correct into pattern dealing with one prop each rethrow, which makes up a bit for a flawly launch - I need that a lot ;o) .

Marvin - - Parent

This poll has now ended. The results are:

  1.   In a clear crescendo way, as a ``ladder´´, starting with lower throws getting upon height towards the later throws. (1 vote)
  2.   A mix of 1. and 3., pretty much the same height as good as I can get it, but the very first one or two throws a bit lower. And-Or doing the two or three latest throws just a little bit higher to have the launch better well-spaced. (0 votes)
  3.   All on the exact height required (from first throw on), thus also in the right tact. (2 votes)
  4.   Different ways, or all of the above, or depending on which pattern, which number, or with a special initial throw or kick, or with a siteswap, or from juggling a lower number (only part of the props) with full hands. (1 vote)

7b_wizard -

Hey folks! Is everyone still theeeeeere?

  1. Yeeeesss!
  2. Erhm, yes.

This is a competition thread which ran from 24th Aug 2016 to 23rd Sep 2016. View results.

Marvin - - Parent

This poll has now ended. No one voted.

I know that feeling.

Orinoco - - Parent

*snigger*

7b_wizard - - Parent

yeh, like him: https://eelslap.com/

7b_wizard -

Where to best upload any juggling video  ( be it tutorial, 'show off', stage act, practise, a record, a trick clip, .. )  for any purpose   ( feedback, present oneself or a pattern, talk about the vid, get most attention, ask for analysis, park it there, .. )  ?

  1. any video upload server will do and make it available and linkable
  2. vimeo
  3. youTube
  4. JTV
  5. Instagram
  6. your own homepage
  7. Facebook
  8. other

Where would you want  a l l  juggling videos gathered?

This is a competition thread which ran from 10th Aug 2016 to 28th Aug 2016. View results.

The Void - - Parent

4.

barnesy - - Parent

What a s u r p r i s e

Richard Loxley - - Parent

I think it depends where your audience is.

Juggling TV is great if you want general jugglers to see it.

Facebook is great if you want your friends (or a members of a particular group) to see it.

Other sites are great if you want a general audience to see it.

It's worth talking about the amount of "friction" involved in viewing a video. There are so many competing calls for attention that it's worth making it as easy as possible for someone to see it.

For instance, I use Facebook via an app. If I see a video I fancy, then if it's a Facebook-hosted video, I can watch it immediately. If it's hosted elsewhere, a different app is loaded to view the video, taking 5-10 seconds. And chances are when I return to the Facebook app it's lost my place in my timeline. So personally when browsing Facebook I'm ten times more likely to watch a Facebook-hosted video than a video hosted anywhere else. The same goes for Twitter (with Twitter-hosted videos).

So I'd definitely recommend hosting the video on the same platform where you will be publicising it, for that reason.

On the web, it's a little easier, as many platforms embed videos in the webpage. For the web I'd recommend YouTube (and to a lesser extent Vimeo) as most forum software, etc, recognises them and embeds them automatically.

Make it easy for people to see the video and you'll get loads more views.

But ultimately, pick the audience first, then use that to decide where to publish.

Little Paul - - Parent

But ultimately, pick the audience first, then use that to decide where to publish.

This. Publish it where your intended audience expect to see it.

If your audience is in multiple places (eg split across facebook and youtube) publish in both places.

7b_wizard - - Parent

If there were an agreed upon (best) 'central' platform for juggling videos, the audience would be right there.

Little Paul - - Parent

So your audience is *specifically* people who are already looking for juggling videos?

Seems a bit narrow to me.

What if your audience is the general public, who don't know they want to watch a juggling video? How would they know to look in your 'central' platform?

7b_wizard - - Parent

Isn't that mostly the case ("people looking for juggling are the audience")? How would general public find a juggling video on e.g. youTube other than by hitting "juggling" into search bar, or by a juggling video being proposed in the "see also"s? Sure, you can upload it 'out of context' to any platform.
But you can just aswell link an uploaded video anywhere, your audience hangs out (being uploaded on a preferred 'central' for juggling videos doesn't mean, it's viewed only from there, and posting it somewhere doesn't require it to have been also uploaded there).

Kelhoon - - Parent

well, they apparently do find them given how many non-jugglers have told me about juggling videos

the last one someone told me about was the solving 3 cubes while juggling them, but they were solved so fast I am pretty sure it was faked or gimmicked

Little Paul - - Parent

Depends on the type of video.

If your video is of you doing siteswaps in your back garden, and your anticipated audience is "other jugglers" then yes, it's reasonable to assume that people who want to see it are going to be searching specifically for juggling videos.

If your video is a promo video, promoting yourself as a professional entertainer looking for business - then people who want to book you aren't likely to be looking specifically for a juggler, they're more likely to be looking more generally for entertainers.

If you've set out to make a well produced video, that happens to feature a juggler (Like for example the stuff Norbi puts out) then the sort of people who appreciate that style of video aren't likely to be searching specifically for juggling - but if it pops up in their instagram/tumblr feed they'll watch it.

If you're setting out to make a video that gets a lot of views so you can make some ad-revenue off it (like for example Bob & Trish do with their trick shot videos) then posting them in a central juggling video repository makes no sense - the viewers who are likely to watch/share it aren't searching for juggling, they're searching for "funny" or "awesome" or whatever.

If all your friends use facebook, posting a video for them to watch on Bebo makes no sense.

See what I mean?

Just because *you're* watching juggling videos by searching for the word "juggling" doesn't mean every potential viewer is.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Hm. I see. That makes the poll somewhat futile, if people post their juggling video as "see what I did"-video or as "Hire this artist"-video anywhere anyway.

7b_wizard - - Parent

                                    4
[brainstorm:]
@ 1 - Any server doesn't offer hashtags, categories, juggling related chat or forum, no features.
@ 2 - vimeo lately shuts my browser (mozilla 16); and when it worked before, it had staggered framerate on my system.
@ 3 - Woe! .. lemming's mainstream .. I was on our tube before it was google+. My account got inaccessible unless I gave google+ my mobile phonenumber. Hey, What?! .. I'm not giving them my mobilephone number! How about people worldwide in poor countries, or people who just don't use mobile, all people with PC, but without mobile (for whatever reason that really isn't google+'s business) .. they're being excluded. How dare they even ask for your number!?
  That streaming doesn't always work well, sometimes the videos freeze and don't skip and not replay anymore on my system. Search function and results are imo a catastrophe.
@ 4 - JugglingTV - haven't found any flaw - there's hashtags, comments, categories, sortable, everything. It's upto uploaders to set the hashtags and choose a title or description for their vids to be found later again. And it looks like ("from jugglers for jugglers") .. looks like the full rights remain with the uploader.
@ 5 - I don't see why I should register and-or install any instagram-software just to watch a video. My puter does perfectly fine watching videos (in some common old formats lol). I'm in general not pumping my machine full with updates on every switching it on. You can't watch a video as "guest"? You're 'welcome', when you register and use their software only ( for watching a video!!??? Are the pics for free lol? Will the text get crypted soon? )
@ 6 - personal homepage is different: it's only your videos, not a collection, not an all juggler's plattform. Doesn't seem to make sense on behalf of a 'central for all juggling videos'.
@ 7 - FB.. same as uTube and instagram .. you can't watch as guest, have to be registered .. mainstream for 'insiders' excluding 'outsiders'?
@ 8 - no idea what that could be .. a 'futuristic juggvid upload and sharing platform' ? That's JTV, right.
[end brainstorm]

7b_wizard - - Parent

JTV's search function could be better, maybe, .. just full plain text with option (+ - "" "every \ all \ any") and show the matches.  ( Again it's up to users to enter meaningful words in their desriptions if they care for their vid be found ).  Not them cursed "did-you-mean-algorithms". (But i don't know)

7b_wizard - - Parent

.. and btw .. I have core-blocked google, google analytics, google-syndication (what the heck is that?) in my HOSTS!! (and I believe, machine is double as fast browsing, but I can't prove for sure) .. just to be clear on this.  ( I'm also not on FB - you can't even find worldwide doublegangers there ;o]) ) 

Orinoco - - Parent

For those that tried to vote for option 4 before 13:00 GMT today (Thursday 11th), your vote was not counted due to the autolinking of jtv to jtv. I bodged a fix during my lunch break that allowed voting & put a proper fix in just now.

As you were.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Thank you!

Marvin - - Parent

This poll has now ended. The results are:

  1.   any video upload server will do and make it available and linkable (0 votes)
  2.   vimeo (0 votes)
  3.   youTube (3 votes)
  4.   JTV (4 votes)
  5.   Instagram (0 votes)
  6.   your own homepage (0 votes)
  7.   Facebook (0 votes)
  8.   other (0 votes)

7b_wizard -

How happy are you with  a l l  your props, the  w h o l e  set*, your equipment, your gear as a whole, that you use most for juggling, for your (main) practise, all those props that you really need?

  1. All perfect.
  2. Pretty much okay, all in all, just this or that could be notably better.
  3. So-so. Okay, so far. I would or could maybe wish for much better, but they're clearly good enough.
  4. Not really what I wish for. ``Jugglable´´, better than e.g. tennisballs, than e.g. some replacement, that's all.
  5. Not happy at all. I need better ones!
  6. [other]

[ * "available" props - needn't be your own, whatever you usually get into your hands ]

This is a competition thread which ran from 4th Aug 2016 to 21st Aug 2016. View results.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Selected 2. Love my beanbags. I'd really like an absolute ring or two, but they're hard to find these days.

James Hennigan - - Parent

2

I've used SRX russians for over 2 years now and I can't imagine switching. I'm surprised at how uncommon they are.

Other than that I just use 1 club for balancing.

Ben Clarke - - Parent

1, I love my props, sport co for toss juggling, 400gr play 5 inch ball for contact, 3 inch acrylics from renegage for multiball contact...
That said, I have just got a set of norwiks and am interested in switching to them for a while to try them out for tossing, but they feel soooo different than bean bags!

Ben Clarke - - Parent

Sorry, replied to wrong thread and can't figure out how to move or delete my post. :(

Orinoco - - Parent

Don't worry, stuff like that gets corrected by magic.

noslowerdna - - Parent

1

Marvin - - Parent

This poll has now ended. The results are:

  1.   All perfect. (1 vote)
  2.   Pretty much okay, all in all, just this or that could be notably better. (10 votes)
  3.   So-so. Okay, so far. I would or could maybe wish for much better, but they're clearly good enough. (3 votes)
  4.   Not really what I wish for. ``Jugglable´´, better than e.g. tennisballs, than e.g. some replacement, that's all. (0 votes)
  5.   Not happy at all. I need better ones! (0 votes)
  6.   [other] (0 votes)

7b_wizard -

Can you remember your very first ever juggling trick?

  1. 2 ball shower.
  2. 1hd 2 ball. (no matter columns or bows)
  3. 2 ball cascade (3b cascade with a gap, "330").
  4. 2 ball wimpy. (synch + crossing)
  5. other trick with 2 balls.
  6. 3 ball cascade.
  7. 3 ball reverse cascade.
  8. 3 ball columns.
  9. other trick with 3 balls.
  10. other prop, clubs, rings ..
  11. 2 or 3 scarves or light fabric.

[ *If you don't remember well, feel free to chose which you think it was most likely.* ]

This is a competition thread which ran from 30th Jul 2016 to 29th Aug 2016. View results.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Somehow, juggling had never occurred to me as a kid, so I don't think I ever did 2b in one hand, nor a 2b shower. The person who taught me just said "start with the hand with two, and keep throwing under the other ball", so I didn't try 330 until later, either.

pumpkineater23 - - Parent

I've never really thought of the 2b cascade (with two hands) as juggling. Yes, it's throwing balls but you don't really get the 'juggling feeling' until 3b cascade I think?

7b_wizard - - Parent

Agreed - one more prop than you have hands. So I'd count 1 hd 2b.

( But for sure 2b + bodythrows or 2b + trick handmoves, or + contact is "juggling"! Seen that way, "juggling" starts with 1 prop and is a big big topic. ) Maybe it's the moment where you give up focus on a thrown (or rolled, whatever) prop, 'let loose', and use the flighttime to do sth else.

7b_wizard - - Parent

& a 0prop juggling pantomime is on the border to juggling blind :o) .. with as many imagined props as you can handle Xo])

pumpkineater23 - - Parent

Correction - Apologies I meant the 2b shower (not cascade). Like LP mentioned, 2b shower doesn't really seem to inspire. The juggling begins that moment the third cascade throw is released.. I think. I can still remember that 'moment'.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

I never thought of doing the cascade as doing a trick. The first tricky trick I learned was the factory. Which made me push my 2 in one hand skill and columns skill, but I had never really practiced them until someone showed me the factory.

Little Paul - - Parent

I can remember clearly doing a 2 ball shower with rounders balls when I was in the last year of primary school (about 29 years ago)

But that is at least 5 years before what I usually think of as learning to juggle.

Marvin - - Parent

This poll has now ended. The results are:

  1.   2 ball shower. (2 votes)
  2.   1hd 2 ball. (no matter columns or bows) (1 vote)
  3.   2 ball cascade (3b cascade with a gap, "330"). (0 votes)
  4.   2 ball wimpy. (synch + crossing) (0 votes)
  5.   other trick with 2 balls. (0 votes)
  6.   3 ball cascade. (2 votes)
  7.   3 ball reverse cascade. (1 vote)
  8.   3 ball columns. (0 votes)
  9.   other trick with 3 balls. (0 votes)
  10.   other prop, clubs, rings .. (0 votes)
  11.   2 or 3 scarves or light fabric. (0 votes)

7b_wizard - - Parent

Found this little 3b shower, then 4b shower, before ever knowing the cascade pattern story by Havaard Hvidsten in an everydayjuggler's interview to fit in here: https://youtu.be/teCxNm9VpXY?start=215 [about a minute and half to listen to]

7b_wizard - - Parent

*Haavard (sry!)

Monte - - Parent

3 ball shower was my first pattern. I didn't know about cascades till later. Took me 5 or 6 hours, don't know whether learning a cascade would have been better but I'm sure it would have been quicker.

Daniel Simu -

Where do you generally prefer to juggle? #poll

  1. Outdoors
  2. Indoors
  3. No preference
  4. It's really complicated, I prefer to answer in detail below.

This is a competition thread which ran from 3rd Jun 2016 to 10th Jun 2016. View results.

peterbone - - Parent

Definitely indoors, however this is only rarely possible for me due to lack of good indoor space. About 90% of my juggling is done outdoors.

Austin - - Parent

Exactly the same for me.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

When I don't have a space, I don't juggle.. Outdoor juggling is reserved for relaxing days, vacations, conventions or other exceptions.
This makes indoor spaces so important that I moved quite a few times in order to have a good space, such as to Berlin, Toulouse or Rotterdam :)

peterbone - - Parent

Not having an indoor space has been the bane of my existence for most of my life and will definitely be the main factor that I consider next time I move.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Under the bridge. Like Raindog.

KellyH - - Parent

I live in the southern US and don't like the heat. I also don't like dirt getting on my props. I prefer indoor in general because of these factors. However, I just started juggling in January and I generally love the weather in the fall, so my preferences may be based on the season. I lack good indoor space. I recently moved and wish I had chosen an apartment with a vaulted ceiling (I had the opportunity to do so). Next time, I will be more aware of trying to find somewhere where I can juggle more easily at home.

Stephen Meschke - - Parent

I train 5 to 8 balls and 3 to 6 clubs, so height is a requirement. I prefer a 35' ceiling, if indoors.

I have access to several indoor and several outdoor spaces to juggle. My YMCA has a LED lit multipurpose gym, a florescent lit main gym, and racquetball courts lit by natural and florescent light. A nearby college has a covered area that is perfect for rainy and warm days. I juggle at several local parks.

Environmental factors like wind, noise, temperature, lighting, air quality, and uneven ground can make juggling outdoors much more difficult than inside. It's easier to complete a structured training routine inside because there are fewer distractions from onlookers.

I select my training space based on the weather and training routine. I can't practice clubs in the main gym because it's too loud, so I go in the racquetball court. I don't like to practice 7b cascade in the racquetball court because the balls and walls are both white, so I go to the main gym or multipurpose gym. On nice days, I go to the park.

Marvin - - Parent

This poll has now ended. The results are:

  1.   Outdoors (4 votes)
  2.   Indoors (12 votes)
  3.   No preference (0 votes)
  4.   It's really complicated, I prefer to answer in detail below. (1 vote)

7b_wizard -

Handedness poll

  1. I have one strong hand. My other hand is there for symmetry or counterweight only :o)
  2. I have clearly a strong hand for everything, but my weak hand ain't that bad either.
  3. I have clearly a generally stronger hand, but it depends on what I'm cutting, sewing, using tools, opening a bottle or lid, writing, throwing, folding, brushing, hold a cup, turn pages of a book, make a knot, draw a zipper, hold a phone, write sms.   Some things are better with one, some with the other hand. Or also like lefthanders of necessity using righthander's tools.
  4. I am a "specific" bothhander. I couldn't do better with the respective other hand (even with lefthander's tools). I have no generally stronger hand but in case for this or that specific ado.
  5. I am bothhanded. My both hands are equally active doing almost everything alikely well.
  6. other.

@ bothhanders - Do you think being bothhanded gives you an edge [=advantage] at juggling?
@ all - Does juggling maybe favor bothhanders a bit?

This is a competition thread which ran from 6th Feb 2016 to 27th Feb 2016. View results.

7b_wizard - - Parent

= bothhanded \ weakhd'd poll [title]

7b_wizard - - Parent

handedness poll soon closing

The Void - - Parent

About 2.5 for me. I deal cards left-handed, and the ocassional juggling trick, if I think about it, I do the "hard" way.

Stephen Meschke - - Parent

This poll applies most to the 6 ball asynchronous fountain, also 5b and 7b cascade.

When I started 6b my LH throws were lower and faster than my RH, but after practicing the patter for some time the hands feel the exact same. Working on symmetry has helped, but it's still a problem. My right wrist flexes 40° and my left wrist flexes 10° (watch at 60fps). I get more ball speed and less accuracy from my RH. My LH has a shorter dwell time.

James Hennigan - - Parent

My right hand was naturally better when I started, but I've always made sure to learn tricks on both sides, so now my hands are equal when it comes to juggling. The one exception is the halfshower, which I've decided to only learn on the right side.

Mike Moore - - Parent

I'm working on switching handedness in my daily life. My coworker said I was left handed the other day, so progress is being made!

Daniel Simu - - Parent

I used to switch too, for the purpose of practicing (brushing teeth, cutting food). In juggling I do quite fine with my bad hand, but that is the result of a lot of practice, not natural ability. Because of a terrible injury I now also lack a lot of strength in my off hand compared to my good one, so I rate myself option "1".

Marvin - - Parent

This poll has now ended. The results are:

  1.   I have one strong hand. My other hand is there for symmetry or counterweight only :o) (3 votes)
  2.   I have clearly a strong hand for everything, but my weak hand ain't that bad either. (6 votes)
  3.   I have clearly a generally stronger hand, but it depends on what I'm cutting, sewing, using tools, opening a bottle or lid, writing, throwing, folding, brushing, hold a cup, turn pages of a book, make a knot, draw a zipper, hold a phone, write sms.   Some things are better with one, some with the other hand. Or also like lefthanders of necessity using righthander's tools. (6 votes)
  4.   I am a "specific" bothhander. I couldn't do better with the respective other hand (even with lefthander's tools). I have no generally stronger hand but in case for this or that specific ado. (1 vote)
  5.   I am bothhanded. My both hands are equally active doing almost everything alikely well. (0 votes)
  6.   other. (0 votes)

7b_wizard - - Parent

ng'kay, thx 4 voting! Thx Marvin! :o) .. Seems, the poll didn't `fish´ any 100% bothhander. So, looks like most of us get along with stronghand-weakhand juggling, casually monitoring weakhand's being behind some and needing special attention.

Yet, Sergei Ignatov sen.'s statement:
When you activate your weak hand, everything is possible.
stays burnt into my mind and I will casually work on weakhand selves and handle stuff with my weakhand in daily life until I feel it's emancipated some.

I am somewhat surprised, though, cos I'd really expected naturally more bothhanders juggling for reasons of symmetry being an issue.

david - - Parent

I think I throw more accurately with my right hand and catch more reliably with my left hand. It's easier to notice when passing.

Mats1 -

Attempt no.2: What are some good patterns for club passing with 4-8 people?

Poll: The best number of people to pass with (from options on this list)?

  1. 4
  2. 5
  3. 6
  4. 7
  5. 8

This is a competition thread which ran from 18th Dec 2015 to 25th Dec 2015. View results.

Richard Loxley - - Parent

The best number to pass with is the number of passers you have available at the time :-)

I'm all for inclusivity!

Daniel Simu - - Parent

With less passers, there is a smaller chance of error, and thus you can work on more difficult/complicated stuff! Therefore I voted 4 but actually I mean 2.. ;)


Once you've decided to go with group passing... I totally agree with Richard! Whoever joins, the more the merrier :)


Flexible patterns, where it is easy to include more people:

Circle: passing to your neighbours (3+, gets a bit harder with more people as the angle gets wider)
Circle: passing to the person opposite side (5+, gets harder with every extra person as the distances increase)
W shape. Or with many people a VVVVVVV shape (3+)
A couple more patterns come to mind, but I don't know names and I don't feel like describing them..
Plenty of shapes are thinkable where the passes are simple, and people could move around in between passes. Like a Y, or 2 Y shapes back to back (6 people), inner outer circle/star ( minimum 3 passers in the middle, same amount of passers around, passes follow a star shaped path)...

Since the chance of error and the chance that you have beginner passers increases with more people, I would always recommend stuff that is easy to understand and execute, or directly builds upon material that all passers know (extending a roundabout for example). In any pattern, any passer can be exchanged for 2 people doing walk-arounds, any pass can be exchanged for someone doing takeouts and drop ins.

I suppose you've also looked at the passingwiki?
https://passingwiki.org/wiki/Special:RunQuery/Pattern_Query

Maria - - Parent

It doesn't really matter to me what is the "best" number of people to pass with, at my juggling club we are usually 2-5 passers and we choose a pattern according to the number of passers present.

Uhm, so... Good patterns?

For 4 people I like:
Scrambled V
Speed Weave (can also add an extra club, do passes as doubles)
Rotating Y
14 clubs Y
A "shooting star" with 12 clubs, don't know the name but 4-count, doubles, walking holding two clubs
(Yes, I like patterns where I get to move around...)

5 people:
Mr inside Mr outside weave
star (many possibilities to make different variations here)
W-feed (add walking to make it more interesting)

Haven't really been in patterns with more than 5 jugglers very often. Boston Circle?

EricS - - Parent

4 people: 11 club shooting star (4 count, singles, move when you have two clubs). Philadelphia line (Passers 1 and 2 face Passers 3 and 4)

1 2 3 4

Passers 1 and 4 pass double/double/triple, passers 2 and 3 pass double/dropback/single

5 people: Torture Chamber

Little Paul - - Parent

I do enjoy shooting star patterns, although I prefer the 4-person-9-club-move-when-your-hands-are-empty version

^Tom_ - - Parent

How about the 4-person-9-club-grab-some-rum-when-your-hands-are-empty version?

mike.armstrong - - Parent

Tequila, Shirley?
That one's known (in my head at least) as the Shoting Star

Little Paul - - Parent

i don't think I've played that version since the days of the top field.

Marvin - - Parent

This poll has now ended. The results are:

  1.   4 (2 votes)
  2.   5 (1 vote)
  3.   6 (0 votes)
  4.   7 (0 votes)
  5.   8
    (0 votes)

Daniel Simu - - Parent

I am so excited for the results of the original poll.. but we have to wait until January 15th!? Pfff

Mats1 -

What are some nice club passing patterns suitable for larger numbers (5-8 people)?

  1. 5
  2. 6
  3. 7
  4. 8

This is a competition thread which ran from 16th Dec 2015 to 15th Jan 2016. View results.

The Void - - Parent

Why is this a poll? It makes no sense as such.

Orinoco - - Parent

I'd guess Mats1 was going for a survey.

We don't have a survey option!

I'm still voting for number 6 though.

Little Paul - - Parent

But 6 isn't even prime!

Chris - - Parent

You fool.

Number 5 master race

7b_wizard - - Parent

I think, you're in an old or other competition type mode
and were going for answers like:

1. this pattern for 5 jugglers
2. other or same pattern for 6 jugglers
3. pattern for 7 jugglers
4. pattern for 8 jugglers

.. then people vote for answers and find patterns most voted for.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Maybe radio button "Most votes wins" does that (instead "Poll"), but I haven't used that yet.

7b_wizard - - Parent

But you might then be able to vote for the whole set of proposed patterns (5-8 jugglers) only, not distinct patterns for different numbers of jugglers.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

I'd say 6!

7b_wizard - - Parent

Haha
I expected this answer from The Void.
And vice versa.
What happened?

Cedric Lackpot - - Parent

Agreed.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Huh? .. Aren't 4 and 9 also nice? Are they?

Mïark - - Parent

I vote 5, the more people you have in a passing pattern the more time you spend getting started and not actually juggling/passing.

Have you checked out the Madison book for multi-person passing patterns, there are also a few 5 and 6 person patterns on Aidan's website

Marvin - - Parent

This poll has now ended. The results are:

  1.   5 (5 votes)
  2.   6 (6 votes)
  3.   7 (2 votes)
  4.   8 (0 votes)

The Void - - Parent

There seems to be a superfluous line break there, Marvin. Tsk.
Oh, and could you stir this coffee for me, please?

Marvin - - Parent

Clockwise or anti-clockwise?

The Void - - Parent

Yes.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Surprisingly there were much more votes on this poll than the othe one...

Orinoco -

When you teach someone to pass, which end of the spectrum are you closer to?:

  1. Point out every under-spun/over-spun/long/short/wide/crossing etc. pass
  2. Just deal with it & let them iron their own mistakes out



#passing

This is a competition thread which ran from 4th Dec 2015 to 11th Dec 2015. View results.

Brook Roberts - - Parent

I want to click an option but find it almost impossible to do so.
If I'm teaching someone to pass, I merrily tell them it's time to move on whenever we get a short run, and head straight towards one count, whereupon they really just need to make sure the clubs go forward and up and we can run it.

If my partner who I can pass 9 clubs with is doing 7 club one-count/giving me 6 club 2 count for body throws, and they aren't perfect, then I tend to point out possibly a lot more things than they would like. And get frustrated that they don't!

I think passing body moves is probably the best example of this. If someone is learning shoulder throws with me, I'm a huge fan of telling them to just try and run it once they've landed like two - I'll catch everything and not complain - because it lets them get a feel for the trick. But if they're feeding me, they better not be lazy just because they're passing 6 club 2-count! (yes I know my stupid albert combo pass was 3 feet to the right and 1 1/2 spins over, but your pass was a little low, could you fix it please :) )


I think it's also really useful to say how much feedback you want. Some people I know will say 'no feedback yet', and then in a few minutes when they've sorted out the pattern, request feedback. Ideally I would be giving them the right amount of feedback, but I often given too much or too little, so feedback feedback is useful, and is conveying how much spare capacity you have at your end of the pattern.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Yes, I think there's value in saying how much feedback you want. When I do a pattern for the first time, it normally takes me a few runs to get my hands to automatically make the correct types of throws before I can start dealing with accuracy issues.

"Give me a few runs to get this sorted"

Orinoco - - Parent

Saying how much feedback you want up front is a good plan if you know what is going to be useful to you, but will a newbie really know? I think there is a lot of pressure to take feedback even when it is not helpful. I think there is a point where a newbie becomes ready for feedback but it takes a while to get to it. In the face of a battle-scarred veteran passer I think most virgin passers will panic & say, "Ooh, constructive criticism, that's good. Honesty, that's good too. I'll have lots of that please." I've seen poor newbies battered by a catalogue of errors way beyond their current ability to correct. I've never asked anyone I've taught how much feedback they want. Probably arrogance on my part because I think I know best?

I'm definitely closer to option 2. I find that if you take away the pressure to make perfect passes the pupil improves much more rapidly. A lot of the people I teach to pass haven't got a very solid cascade yet. I'm a strong believer that learning to pass as soon as possible is a good thing. I really do it to give them a bit of variety to their practice so they don't get bored of drilling the cascade on their own (which is apparently a problem for some other people), so I don't care what their passes are like, I'm sneakily trying to get them to do more self throws.

Richard Loxley - - Parent

Ah, I missed the idea that this was complete beginners at passing. Since everyone I know is "still learning", even after several years, that's what I'd assumed!

For complete beginners, I think if I'm capable of catching the passes, I'd just keep quiet and let them improve. If I can't catch them, then I'll wait until I've noticed a pattern to what they're doing wrong, then suggest a change there.

Brook Roberts - - Parent

Yes, I agree, I was talking in general. For complete beginners, none, or really basic, one comment.

The Void - - Parent

1.5 Give them enough feedback to work on. But don't overload them with too much to think about.

Mike Moore - - Parent

I'm assuming this is assuming there's a big skill asymmetry between me and the other person. If so, I deal with whatever they throw at me until the variability in their throws starts to tighten up. At that point, I think they're ready for feedback.

That said, normally the feedback (for a new passer, anyway) is "okay, good, let's change the count."

Mike Moore - - Parent

Eesh, a triple post, but I want to say this anyway: I get bored when someone throws me perfect passes!

Little Paul - - Parent

I'm probably somewhere in the middle of those two options. I'll deal with anything that's within arms reach, if it's not in arms reach I'll keep sending good, on-time passes until I can recover the drop. I try to give encouraging feedback during the run ("nice!, that's it! more like that!")

But I'll save more detailed feedback at the end of a run if there's a consistent problem (eg, "those passes got longer as they went on" or "you're consistently sending half a spin too much")

Oh, and because I'm British, I'll spend as much time apologising for not being able to catch everything...

However, if I'm passing with an experienced passer[1] and trying to improve my throws (which given that I pass about once a year these days, leaves quite a lot of room for improvement) then I tend to criticise my own throws and actively seek detailed corrective advice.

[1] which basically means Mamph

emilyw - - Parent

3. Pick one thing they would get most benefit from working on. Tell them about that one thing. Then point out every pass where they get that thing RIGHT.

Also teach them to look through the pattern so they can see more easily for themselves what's going wrong.

Richard Loxley - - Parent

Right in the middle of the two.

I don't point out mistakes unless at least half their throws have the same mistake, in which case I'll point it out during the next pause.

Maria - - Parent

I think I'm closer to option 2. Definitely not commenting on every pass, but after a drop I might say something like "Okay, good, but many of your passes are a bit short. Do you think that you can make them a bit longer?" or "Did you notice that I got one of your passes to the wrong hand?". The second more to see if they have learned to see my cathces than to correct something that happened once...

It depends a bit on how much I think they are able to fix too, if it looks like the pattern is very difficult to them or I know they don't really have a solid cascade yet I'll probably give less feedback, at least as long at it's good enough to not mess up my passes to them.

Not that I have taught many people to pass yet, very few, and only like 3-4 of them had never tried any passing at all before.

Like Orin I think learning to pass soon is a good thing, and of course, since I think passing is the best kind of juggling I want every new juggler to learn and have fun with passing. Sometimes I try to teach someone 5 clubs 1-count before they have even learned to juggle...

EricS - - Parent

The first few rounds, I usually don't say much. I stress them making eye contact, though, and watching their own clubs less. If they do that, they get some sense of the corrections I'm making (reaching out to snag their outside pass, moving to avoid their inside pass, reaching for short or long passes, etc,). I tell them not to worry about it, just get used to passing. Once they get comfortable letting the club go like that, then I give them feedback to work on their passing.

When I learned, I was told (and I teach) that the responsibility for the pass is with the passer, but once the pass leaves your hand, there is nothing else you could do; you can only fix your next pass.

Marvin - - Parent

This poll has now ended. The results are:

  1.   Point out every under-spun/over-spun/long/short/wide/crossing etc. pass (1 vote)
  2.   Just deal with it & let them iron their own mistakes out (11 votes)

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Wow, that was a one sided poll!

I haven't really followed much of the discussion, but perhaps I'll read some now that I figure that I am the only one who voted for option one.

I am just closer to that end of the spectrum, not at all pointing out EVERY flaw, mostly focussing on one at a time. Starting with distance, then width, and only later spin. And not just correcting passes, also receiving, selfs, body position, etc. Just small bits at a time.
Of course there is a lot of fast progress at the very beginning even without my interruption, and the first few minutes it might be more important to provide for motivation instead of critique. However, I think anything goes better when you are aware of what goes on. And there is so much new stuff going on at once, that it might help if I shift your focus to a specific aspect, especially since I can compensate for any errors that follow from correcting something simple like a tongue out of mouth.

Brook Roberts - - Parent

Well, it's a bit tricky, since hopefully most of us would pick something inbetween the two! Also, I changed my vote when Orinoco clarifed he was talking about real beginner passes, rather than just teaching someone, or passing with someone of comparable ability.

Normally when I teach complete beginners, I like to excite them by getting them to power through quite a few patterns. I like their first experience of passing to be exciting rather than me badgering them about technique (plenty of time for that later ;) )

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Not too long after posting this, I ended up passing with a relative beginner (managed in the end 6 passes of 3count).

I do indeed correct throws that are off, but mostly they are too inconsistent to point out specific flaws!

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