# Forum

Search posts

7b_wizard -

How many juggling (or artistry, magic, object manipulation, whatever got you here) bookmarks (or: browser "favourites"), text or vid or also to software, anything "juggling", do you have?
.. and including secondary links that you keep for e.g. juggling background only or mainly ( e.g. learning theory, anatomy, history, showbizz, artistry in general, programming of juggling, etc. ).
[ no need to count, a rough estimation will do ]

1. none.
2. 1 to 5.
4. around upto 25
5. 25 - 50
6. 50 - 100
7. 100 - 200
8. MORE
9. unclear, too fuzzily defined to tell, too much overlap (e.g. "browser\\offline", "juggling\\non-juggling\\artistry\\..", sources of any kind)

[ °wow° .. what a parentheses' mess once again lol - sry for that, but tried to make it halfway defined, un-misconceivable, able to nail, to find oneself in it, represent many ]

This is a competition thread which ran from 4th Jun 2018 to 11th Jun 2018. View results.

Mike Moore - - Parent

146 videos listed under my Youtube playlist "3b juggling ideas" alone, then many of my favourites are juggling. I also have a Mendeley account with a juggling folder for any academic articles on Juggling.

Much of what I do for fitness/nutrition are also for juggling, so I think I'll be in that MORE category!

Daniel Simu - - Parent

I've just tried to count the juggling videos in my youtube playlists, and estimate them to be around 360... That's definitely the most important source of 'bookmarks'. I don't tend to save written texts on the internet after I've read them (I save them if I want to read them later), as I can nearly always find them again through google using words I remember. Finding videos again is much harder as you search using text to find moving images....

Mike Moore - - Parent

I save the academic journal articles because they're typically behind paywalls. I have access to them at the moment, but not for too much longer.

Marvin - - Parent

This competition has now ended with 8 votes cast. The results are:

1.   none. (1 vote)
2.   1 to 5. (1 vote)
4.   around upto 25 (0 votes)
5.   25 - 50 (1 vote)
6.   50 - 100 (1 vote)
7.   100 - 200 (1 vote)
9.   unclear, too fuzzily defined to tell, too much overlap (e.g. "browser\\offline", "juggling\\non-juggling\\artistry\\..", sources of any kind) (0 votes)

7b_wizard - - Parent

Thanks all for voting!

I said 200, maybe a bit more, but I don't think notably more.

Apart from the examples already mentionned in titlepost, I have - of course - video-links, mostly numbers, then like teaching offers' homepages (even from other sports like tennis as a compare), in several categories, like prop-shops, sewing own balls, siteswaps, records pages, scientific e.g. biokinematics e.g. perception, a mostly empty "going pro" folder with undercategories "ship, street, therapeutic, circus-school, varieté, camp-workshopping, possible sports that juggling is possible compensation or exercise for, and more such mingle-mangle.

7b_wizard -

Which tricks or exercises can you suggest to do while watching soccer World Championship?
Not sure, the question makes any sense, as it's obviously individually different, but what would you choose to do viewing peripherally only?

3b cascade is - of course - no problem (even a bit unchallenging). Tried it with 5b cascade, but still getting several drops there. Maybe inv box, but I'm not sure it's safe, but will try. Contact's Butterflies are surely an option, maybe sth horizontal with both hands ( but that could roll right across my view on the soccer game ). Not sure about 1c flourishes.

A challenge lies also in looking at the game but not awarely seeing it for being actually focussed on the periphal juggle.

Which patterns do you have experience with, looking through them like also at an audience or a passing partner or when talking to someone [can't say "chatting" anymore lol] while juggling? Are there patterns naturally apt´´ for it?

Little Paul - - Parent

If you’re committed to sitting on your arse staring at the tv for several hours over many weeks (instead of doing something productive) then there is only one trick.

Ball spinning.

It takes several hours of frustrating practice to learn to spin a ball, and it’s best learned when you’re thinking about something else anyway.

Little Paul - - Parent

If you want some tips about how to learn it - try this video:

https://youtu.be/o7GXdqw4aKI

7b_wizard - - Parent

"BALL SPINNING" .. OH YEAH! .. cool.
No, not "sit on my arse" but standing facing the monitor ( if that makes a difference to what you meant lol ;o)
Thanks!

7b_wizard - - Parent

( I can do it already, but not keep it up very long, not more than a few, 3-5 seconds )

Guili - - Parent

haha good question man!
I guess it mostly deppends on the match...
I mean, we argentinians usually have hard-on.the-heart matches, not suitable for cardiacs, but the jitters on a group stage match has no comparisson to a semi-final... you know what i mean?
but i did like paul's suggestion of a spinning ball.

7b_wizard - - Parent

^^hehe .. yeah! .. but the group stage can always be good for a surprise and some all-or-nothing matches .. maybe a team gets disqualified and a no-name will enter by wild card and get the title ( Denmark once won the European Championship like that haha ).

Mike Moore - - Parent

I watched How I Met Your Mother mostly to learn BBB. I can now do BBB.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Great idea, but too many levels beyond what I could do halfway dropless. Pinball Style is a strong option now that you said that, though! .. wow, I'm getting a whole sheduled agenda for this! ( I'll have to rewatch one game or other in the late night-repeats, to keep up with my plans )

7b_wizard - - Parent

.. when I had just shut my PC down after posting, I ´´saw´´ the box and 441 and related patterns and exercises (like e.g. 2b-01414) would naturally fit right around the monitor .. !? ( I could then even fit the side, a pattern goes towards, to which way left\\right, attack\\defense, the soccer match is currently going, to who's got the ball now ).
If only my behind the back catching weren't so droppy .. that would be a fun 2b exercise without having to look anyway!

RobC -

Hi all...

Thank you for letting me join the group.

I'm probably a lot older than most of you. Just turned 50...had learning to ride a unicycle on my bucket list for many years. With age comes more determination to fund the time to do what you want for yourself...so finally here I am...owner of a starter unicycle and raring to go. I'll keep you posted on my progress.

Wish me luck!!

RobC

The Void - - Parent

Welcome, and good luck!

Monte - - Parent

Nice to have a new youngster on board...welcome

7b_wizard - - Parent

Hi there, youngg lahdd!
You can do it!

Stephen Meschke -

Happy 531 day.

The Void - - Parent

February 22nd! #ReclaimTheCalendar #wraparound

Little Paul - - Parent

ISO8601 or GTFO

Kelhoon - - Parent

seconded !

(ponders filtering ISO 8601 dates through a siteswap validator to see when the next siteswap day is)

Guili - - Parent

Happy 0606 day!

Ilia Poliakov -

Juggling flashmob
#531day

I want to make 531juggling day. This is a variation on the theme of flashmob 423, which is held annually on April 23. (4 month + 23 day = 423)

Day stunt " 531 " will be held on may 31 (5 month+31 date = 531)
It will be cool for this day to bombard the Internet with variations of this trick. Put hashtag #531day !

I'm starting to prepare.)

Stephen Meschke -

GDPR and Juggling. Is recording a juggler without consent prohibited?

When the weather is nice, I love training outside. Occasionally, other park-goers will ask to record video of me for social media. I always give consent and then hit one of the quick tricks that I train for this specific scenario. This makes me feel good because it shows that juggling is interesting enough to record and share. I have been paid up to \$5 as well!

I am 100% certain (but have no proof) that people record me without asking for my consent. This doesn't bother or intimidate me, but I can sympathize with other jugglers who are find this behavior intrusive and distracting. In the USA it is legal to record someone and then post that content online without their permission.

NPR reported that the GDPR, "forbids people from posting anyone's picture online without their permission." After hearing the news story, I am left with these questions:

• Does the GDPR affect the legality of recording a juggler in public without their consent?
• If a juggler finds images or videos taken and posted online without permission, what can be to get the content removed?
• If filming a juggling video, it is necessary to obtain permission from people in the background before posting the video online?

Guili - - Parent

I've been recorded juggling many times, some of them without my consent... and it never bothered me. but i do think some people may feel it's not right. either for privacy, or for like trademark issues... you know. if someone records your show, you won't be able to sell a dvd later, some like that...
so, out of respect, yes, i think consent must be asked.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Don't spend those 5 bucks - keep 'em as a trophy!

Danny Colyer - - Parent

GDPR affects what businesses and organisations are allowed to do with personally identifying data, meaning data that can be used to identify an individual.

GDPR does not affect what individuals are allowed to do. In the UK, at least, there is no legal requirement to seek anyone's consent before taking photos or video in a public place, and that will continue to be the case.

I don't know what NPR is, or whether it's a reputable news source, but I'd hazard a guess that the story was written by someone who hasn't read GDPR. I have. Three times. And I wouldn't claim to to be certain about what it means in every possible data storage/processing/sharing scenario. But I can say with certainty that an individual would not be in breach of GDPR by posting a photo or video without the subject's consent. I suppose, conceivably, the company that owns the hosting site might have a problem. It's not something that's relevant to my reasons for reading the regulation, so it's not something I was looking for in any of my own readings, but I'm pretty sure there was no intent to ban photo sharing.

peterbone - - Parent

I think it's fine to film people in a public place as long as they remain anonymous. If you identify them when you publish the content then I think it would infringe GDPR.

Danny Colyer - - Parent

If you're publishing as an individual then you won't be in breach of GDPR. You can't be. GDPR doesn't cover actions by individuals not acting as part of an organisation.

Article 2(2)(c):

"This Regulation does not apply to the processing of personal data ... by a natural person in the course of a purely personal ... activity"

Stephen Meschke - - Parent

Peter,

This is not related to the GDPR, but is related to juggling and data. Recent advances in computer vision have made extracting body pose and prop location quite easy. For example, this data was extracted from a video of yours: https://imgur.com/a/oSTXD7R or http://juggling.tv/16862.

I'd like your opinion on this. Who does this data belong to, the person who created the source video or the person who extracted the data?

peterbone - - Parent

That's very interesting, especially as I'm a computer vision engineer. Do you have any more information about the method? In my opinion the data is public since I put the video online and therefore made it public. Any information extracted from that video is also public. I don't think it really belongs to anyone, although I think you have the right to keep the extracted data private if you wish.

Stephen Meschke - - Parent

Thank you for allowing me the use of the data.

• Optical flow was used to track both ends of both balance poles. This tracking was not fully automatic, it required user input 10 times.
• The body pose was extracted using a neural network. A neural network is like a black box. An image of a person is put into one end of the box, and 15 coordinates describing the position of the head, neck, shoulders, elbows, wrists, etc...come out the other side of the box. This tracking was 100% automated. Link to the tutorial I learned from.
• After I extracted the pose data, I took one additional step that really improved the results. The source video was 24 frames per second, so I had 24 sets of pose coordinates for every second of video. Using some simple algebra, I doubled the frame rate. I did this by calculating the midpoint between two poses in sequential frames. For example, if the position of the head in the first two frames for the source video is (100,100) and (110,110); the position of the head in the first three frames of the output video would then be: (100,100), (105,105), (110,110). This smooths the tracking results and also gives and odd lifelike quality to the stick-man.

peterbone - - Parent

Thanks. Interesting. I assume you downloaded the weights rather than training the NN yourself then? I was most impressed with the leg tracking as I'm wearing black baggy trousers in the video that tend to blend into one another. Let me know if you need any more video. I now have a camera that can film at higher frame rates.

Stephen Meschke - - Parent

I downloaded the model from the CMU Perceptual Computing Lab. The model is 200mb, and it was trained on this 20gb dataset. On my lower-power computer, it took 16 seconds to process each frame of video.

This code runs the model:
import cv2net = cv2.dnn.readNetFromCaffe(protoFile, weightsFile)inputBlob = cv2.dnn.blobFromImage(source_image, parameters)net.setInput(inputBlob)output = net.forward()
I have had better results with higher resolution video that has more contrast. These overlays show the accuracy of the model. To create this video, I passed an inputBlob array of shape (1, 3, 368, 368) to the model, which is slightly larger than the size of your body in the video.

These results are head an shoulders better than anything that I have seen. Running these models is quite easy, and would take less than an hour (which includes time to install Ubuntu and OpenCV) and can be done on an older machine. This is a good afternoon project for an intern.

Higher frame rates (120fps+) are required for ball tracking, but greater resolution is required for human pose estimation. I do want to try this out on more video, but I don't even know what to ask for at this point! If you have a video clip for me to process, you can send it to stephenmeschke@gmail.com.

Javitxuzo -

Hi people!
I'm new in this forum. I'm Javi a spanish juggler & uniciclyst and I have recently moved to San Francisco.
Currently I'm trying to juggling with 5 clubs but is being very difficult, any tip would be appreciated.

See you in the forum

(Sorry for my english :P )

7b_wizard - - Parent

Hi there, Javi!

Guili - - Parent

bienvenido javi!
ya somo varios de habla hispana en el foro :)
un saludo desde argentina!

7b_wizard - - Parent

.. yo, un vario desde alemaña :oD

Francis Gurr -

Hello all!

I run the Durham University Circus Society which meets Sundays in Durham UK.
Even though we share part of our name with the univeristy we are open to all and welcome anyone to come along and join in.
We are currently a very new club and have spent this academic year finding our footing and therefore the club is currently free for all to attend.

We mostly practice juggling and unicycling but this is not exclusive and if you are in the area and want to practice other circus skills then come along or get in touch.
Our current equipmement consists of: Juggling balls & clubs, 3 unicycles, one giraffe unicycle, a slackline and an adult pogo stick. We also allow members to borrow equipement during the week.
We meet every Sunday and this means that we are nicely spread around the meeting times of other local clubs (Durham City Jugglers on Tuesday and JUST on Thursday) providing lots of options for jugglers in the North East of England. It also means keen jugglers can now meet up 3 times a week!

We also run local workshops around the Durham area, in June we are doing workshops at college events and for a local Guides group.
You can find out the most up-to-date club details on our Facebook group. You can get in touch with us there, or if Facebook is not your thing, then feel free to send us an email and we can answer any questions or add you to the mailing list.

#DUCircSoc

The Void - - Parent

Hi Francis,
Welcome, and good luck with your club.

mike.armstrong - - Parent

Hi Francis,
Are you open over the summer?

Rosie -

CATCH! Juggling Festival in Cumbria UPDATE

Guys theres going to be a 250 point combat tournament at CATCH! this summer! We have some of the top competitors in the world taking part, I sometimes get more hyped for combat than for the gala show! How about you?
It always a good evenings entertainment, maybe Jon Peat will get another black eye? maybe he'll walk away with the golden apple trophy?? who knows! he did both last time! only one way to find out and thats to be there!

If you havent got tickets to the week grab em now on this link here: https://catchfestival2018.co.uk/tickets

if you want to be in the Fight Night I believe you can sign up on the day AND here through their portal: http://fightnightcombat.com/tournament-Catch-2018.html

Monte - - Parent

Looks like Montegriffo's/cafe chameleon will be getting together again to feed you at Catch.
Bonus for me as my birthday falls on the thursday.
See you in the Lakes...

The Void - - Parent

Yay!

Richard Loxley - - Parent

Great news! Although not for my bank balance ;-)

Ethan -

Hi.

Quick question regarding shoes for juggling stage performances:

Anyone have a favorite style of shoe the like to wear while they perform? I've tried jazz shoes for a few years now, and they tend to not have enough grip for 360s etc. So, any suggestions?

Daniel Simu - - Parent

I love feiyues, it's a kungfu shoe which is popular among Chinese pole acrobats and circus students in general. But they don't look great on stage.
For pretty shoes I like Bleyer, custom colors and everything. Email them about their grip soles, for a fiver extra you get great soles on your shoes.
If you need standard smart/dress shoes go to shoesforcrews. They look basic but feel almost like a sneaker and have great grip.

Ethan - - Parent

Thank you so much for the suggestions! I've just ordered a pair of Feiyues, and I'm going to be ordering some shoes from Bleyer for an upcoming performance!

Cheers.

Dee - - Parent

​Coming from a ballet background, I would say to think about your "push off" technique. You shouldn't need to use your other foot at all to generate rotation. A bad technique can cause injury, it may be worthwhile to attend some dance classes to improve your technique to try to minimise the risk of injury in the longer term.

Ethan - - Parent

Thanks! I'll definitely look into it!

lukeburrage - - Parent

In ballet, do you use your upper body and arms to generate rotation? That’s cool for dancing, but for juggling you are often using your arms for something else at the time you want to begin generating rotational force.

Dee - - Parent

You use a surprising amount of stomach muscles to generate rotation, with some shoulder (but more stomach than people realise).

Techniques will need to be adapted for juggling (of course), but going to more grippy shoes because of "push off" issues is more likely to cause problems - with the rotating foot getting stuck and twisting knees.

Unless a character would have a reason for wearing different shoes, then I would recommend refining a technique that enables jugglers to avoid knee injury caused by jarring.

Orinoco - - Parent

You use a surprising amount of stomach muscles to generate rotation, with some shoulder (but more stomach than people realise).

Specifically your internal & external oblique abdominal muscles. So standard sit ups won't help.

Orinoco - - Parent

If you are doing a lot of 360s then less grippy shoes are a better option.

I think most people have the same instinct that more grip = more force to launch the spin = better spins. However, if you spin with a grippy soled shoe it puts a rotational stress on your knee which is a major cause for knee operations among salsa dancers. This is why you won't find many grippy dance shoes. The other way of looking at the problem is: Reducing friction = less force required to spin = better spins.

I'm convinced that the reason why jugglers who wear trainers get better at 360s is because they gradually wear away the grip from the one foot they consistently spin on.

I started getting problems with my knees due to dancing so I started wearing these Cotton soled kung fu shoes. It took a while to adjust but it has definitely made things easier & I won't be going back.

Ethan - - Parent

Yes, I would agree.

The main problem is that the foot that is kicking off the spin does not have enough grip. Which means that there is ultimately not enough force generated to create multiple fast and clean spins.

Those cotton soled shoes look very comfortable!

7b_wizard - - Parent

Hi Ethan, @ all - would it make sense to wear two different shoes (L+R), one for pushing \kicking off, and one for the stance foot turning, maybe? Or have a rubber cap for the pushing foot ( that you can slip over when needed and take off when not anymore ) ? (don't they have it in bowling?)

Scott Seltzer - - Parent

Ofek Snir is notorious for his super fast spins (7-up 1080!) and he wears a sock on his spinning foot and goes barefoot on his other. Not often appropriate for performing, but he pulled it off in "Sock It".

7b_wizard - - Parent

Ah, okay. Impressing! .. I'd still go with what Dee said above - sounds profund and very plausible. ( So Ofek is maybe an exeption to the rule, with maybe his own technique perfectionned, or maybe evn bluntly doing it wrong and overstressing his anatomy on the long run )

Btw., I myself get dizzy after a one stage 540° turn lol and try it only rarely.