The Juggling Edge - Circus grip origin

Daniel Simu - 2014-09-12 20:31:33 UTC #

Circus grip origin
Today I had a discussion about different club grips, and the question came to mind: Where does the term Circus grip come from? All over the western world people seem to agree on the name circus grip, so there must be some kind of singular source, right?

Orinoco - 2014-09-13 21:03:24 UTC - Parent #

I only came across the name circus grip after reading the Compendium of Club Juggling. Prior to that the two grips were generally referred to at TWJC as 'right' & 'wrong', but there was no clear consensus on which was which.

Aidan - 2014-09-13 22:48:02 UTC - Parent #

Circus grip is supposed to be better for multiplex throws. Some people find the clubs snag against each other if they use it to start juggling. I prefer normal grip.

Daniel Simu - 2014-09-13 23:04:40 UTC - Parent #

So I guess I should try to contact Charlie Dancey about his source?

Little Paul - 2014-09-15 10:16:06 UTC - Parent #

I think Charlie would be a good person to start with, although the term certainly pre-dates the compendium.

I'm fairly sure the two grips are described as "circus" and "european" in The Complete Juggler (Dave Finnegan) but for some reason I've been unable to find my copy. Dave was fairly responsive by email last time I trued to get hold of him, and is a very helpful chap with lots of knowledge and stories. Give him a go!

Mike Armstrong and David Caine both have quite extensive collections of juggling instruction books, so may be able to help further?

Daniel Simu - 2014-09-15 19:47:10 UTC - Parent #

I just looked it up:
Both the Complete Juggler and Start to Star show Euro grip on their pictures, but don't give a name to it and also don't mention circus grip...

mike.armstrong - 2014-09-16 09:36:24 UTC - Parent #

I went through all of the books [1] in my collection that I thought would be relevant last night. Some just assume that you'll work it out, many show one grip or the other and a few show both and say "try them both and choose your favourite". One shows some completely weird aberration with them side by side.
None of them give names to the grips.
Somehow I don't own Dancey's Compendium of Club Juggling - can someone who does confirm that they're definitely in there?
Cheers
-Mike

[1] They were:
Anglo, Edited by Middleton, James F; The Art of Modern Juggling (1908)
Burgess, Hovey; Circus Techniques (1976)
Dawson, Robert; Take 3 Clubs (1995)
Dittrich, Rudolf; Juggling (1961)
Finnigan, Dave; The Complete Juggler (1987)
Franco, Dick; Three Club Juggling (1985)
Holden, Max; Manual of Juggling (1946)
Holland, Charlie; Juggling (1994)
Ingalese, Rupert; Juggling or How to Become a Juggler (1921)
Mills, John J; How to do Juggling (1946)
Summers, Kit; Juggling with Finesse (1987)
Wiley, Jack; Basic Circus Skills (1974)

seveirein - 2014-09-16 12:11:57 UTC - Parent #

Definitely there in the compendium, under the entries for "Circus grip" and "Normal Grip".

Daniel Simu - 2014-09-16 13:51:00 UTC - Parent #

Thanks for looking up! Cool that other people are curious about this too :).
So I guess it is back to asking Charlie Dancey? Too bad that I have no clue how to reach him...

Danny Colyer - 2014-09-22 18:41:59 UTC - Parent #

> So I guess it is back to asking Charlie Dancey? Too bad that I have no clue how to reach him...

You could try tweeting him @charliedancey. He hasn't been active for a few months, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he can't be contacted that way.

Mike Moore - 2014-09-22 19:05:40 UTC - Parent #

He also appears on the juggling subreddit sometimes. You can send him a message, it looks like he's on reddit quite frequently.

https://www.reddit.com/r/juggling (to make a general post)

Or, his user page: https://www.reddit.com/user/charliedancey (to send a message to him directly)

Daniel Simu - 2014-09-22 20:27:43 UTC - Parent #

Thanks! I already tweeted with no luck, but I'll give Reddit a go!

The Void - 2014-09-13 23:22:40 UTC - Parent #

I don't know the answer to your question, but the other grip is called "European grip". Which could perhaps suggest that Circus Grip is an American term, but that's only speculation. I would investigate all the club juggling books you can find, and see which is the oldest to feature the term Circus Grip. That might give an idea of when it was popularised.

Daniel Simu - 2014-09-14 08:33:56 UTC - Parent #

I sold all of my interesting juggling books to you :p

There also is less consensus about 'euro grip', more often this is known as 'regular grip'. Why would circus grip have stuck and euro grip not?
I'll see if I can find some instructional books :)

Orinoco - 2014-09-14 10:36:39 UTC - Parent #

I think the term 'normal grip' for the opposite of a circus grip is more popular.

I find it as normal as deepfried hedgehog.

Marlon - 2014-09-14 14:22:50 UTC - Parent #

That sounds delicious!

Also good for constipation according to medieval sources
https://www.medievalcookery.com/oddities

Orinoco - 2014-09-14 19:18:01 UTC - Parent #

A food that supplies its own toothpicks.

Daniel Simu - 2014-09-24 16:57:41 UTC - Parent #

I got a reply from Charlie, and he claims the term comes out of his own juggling community, possibly even himself! His book is then definitely what popularized it...

I am quite surprised by the influence of a single book on such a detaillistic but widely understood term!!

Charlie's message:

Hi,
At the time I was learning to juggle at the old Walcot Village Hall workshop in Bath UK, back around 1980, we were told by most of our peers that the "normal" grip was right, but we also noticed that traditional circus jugglers, and our Russian friends from the Moscow State Circus, tended to use the reverse. We also found that the reverse grip was often better for multiplexing etc. So instead of calling it "wrong" or "reverse" we called it the "Circus Grip". I'm not sure who coined the term, it could have been me, one of the "gang" or we might have picked it up from somewhere. It was a very creative time, and the precise details of who named which what, are not always easy to remember.
I'm pretty sure I was the first to use it in print though, since none of my research turned the phrase up from previous works. It's important to have decent names for things in a book, and that's why I used it.
So: probably me, but possibly not, and that's the best answer I can give.
It's cool that people are interested in such stuff, best to all of you!
Charlie Dancey