Daniel Simu - #
Past z
Chris Hodge uploaded this a few weeks ago
http://juggling.tv/14239
What comes after Z?
Should we finally accept that going from 9 to A was a silly choice in the first place? Are there any other examples of systems that use number sequences and what do they use to prevent confusion?
Daniel Simu - - Parent #
Perhaps we should go 2 digit
05 03 01
05 05 05 00 00
Or maybe use dots? 5.3.1. 5.5.5.0.0.
In spoken language multiple digit numbers are not a problem of course..
or since it is only needed to go past z in such rare cases we should go from lowercase xyz to capital ABC?
I find it hard to calculate with letters, maybe this is a good moment to drop them..
For most of us it is a rare case to go past 9!
I think it is way too late to drop using letters for numbers, the convention is well established in the juggling community & pretty much all juggling software supports it. If people need to go past z there needs to be another extension that doesn't break the existing format.
Just using 2 digits has ambiguity, eg. for the following am I talking about 3 different patterns or a single 13 ball pattern (fdb)?:
15 13 11
Using dots is ok, but using regular punctuation for a code can causes problems when people hamfistedly put it into sentences. w00t! pulled off 31.11.9.7.5.3.1 too! (Did they pull of db97531 as well as something else, or did they do db & 97531?).
In synch & multiplex siteswaps we already surround characters with different brackets to indicate that they need to be treated differently so it's not much of a stretch for people to start using another type of brackets eg. {10}1
Don't ever invent a siteswap extension & use <>. The internet will hate you.
Daniel Simu - - Parent #
"Just using 2 digits has ambiguity"
Not if you'd do it always! Like making a simple 3 ball siteswap 050301 (531). Of course we could never ask the juggling community to break their convention of easy 531 for something more complicated...
"pulled off 31.11.9.7.5.3.1 too!"
Yes, if you don't watch out dots could be a problem in that way. Those who don't watch out also forget punctuation, and might say "W00t, pulled of DB 97531 too!" which is equally problematic and super rare ;)
{} is a realistic solution. For hand drawn siteswaps it is already problematic to distinguish between () and [], at least {} is a bit different from the other two...
Anyway, assuming that we can't break the convention overnight, what would happen past z?
Daniel Simu - - Parent #
Oh, as for dots, in my examples I finished each siteswap with a dot too. A dot after each digit. So it would become "13.11.. 9.7.5.3.1. too!" ;)
Mike Moore - - Parent #
Then we'd run into issues for some non-two handed siteswaps. For example, with two people, 3.5p, 5.5p23, etc. are valid 4 handed patterns.
But I suppose technically the p denoting a pass could be mistaken for a throw of value p (similar for an x in synchronous siteswap).
Daniel Simu - - Parent #
It might be rare to go past 9 for most of us toss jugglers.. But imagine the appliances for non toss juggling!
One of the many reasons nobody went into this discovery is because the system is not encouraging you to go beyond 9... But you could drop and pick up balls in different orders, or play with balls that are rolling down slowly from a slope (marbles?), put balls on escalators and play with orders or even make a braid resembling a siteswap.. All of these things would be more accessible to pursue in extremes if letters were not the standard!
Mike Moore - - Parent #
I dread figuring out the siteswap of when I throw a beanbag I haven't used for a while...
Daniel Simu - - Parent #
lol
Doesn't juggling lab use to represent multiple jugglers? Are there different extensions for that?
Little Paul - - Parent #
Duh - you clearly suck at base 36. 11 comes after z.
Little Paul - - Parent #
while 11 does indeed come after z - I clearly meant 10 (I hate Monday mornings)
Daniel Simu - - Parent #
Yep, this would be the proper solution :p
In a siteswap simulator I made, {|}~ came after z. The reason was that they're the next characters in the ascii code. I've heard of using capitals after z. The fact that this has not been decided on is evidence that it's not needed.
I really like the idea of creating an optional toss delimiter. I think that solves the (rare) problem of needing to represent a siteswap greater than z. It also may improve the readability of more complicated siteswaps, though that's debatable. I don't have much of a preference on the character used, both a period and a comma seem reasonable, though that may increase confusion when referring to a siteswap in a regular sentence.
Ever since I discovered its existence it has been an ambition of mine to say something stupid enough to be lampooned on r/jugglingjerk. So I hope it's for me!
DaHjaj QaQ jaj juggle!
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