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Sergei -

What does it mean "flash" and "qualify" in case of 4 balls sync collumns. I know that in case of 3 b cascade it is 3 and 6 catches. How to count in case of 4 b collumns as each catching act consist of TWO balls ?

Guili - - Parent

hello sergei. according to wikipedia a flash is a form of numbers juggling where each ball is only thrown and caught once
so each hand will toss both balls, catch them and that's it :)
here an animated gif made by my great friend "palito" (sticky in english)

Sergei - - Parent

Sorry, this link is not working for me. May be I need some "sesame" word ))

Sergei - - Parent

Guili - - Parent

hi sergei! too bad.. it was just an animated gif made in jugglinglab, you know it?
it's a juggling emulator. shows you any pattern. it's really usefull.

Sergei - - Parent

Thanks, I have got it correctly, but it is the TRICK "flash"/ I mean different issue

Guili - - Parent

try now, i think it was not in "public" post

Guili - - Parent

or it is a juggling trick where every prop is simultaneously in the air and both hands are empty
like this:

Maria - - Parent

What you call one "catching act" is still 2 catches.

So a flash, 4 catches, so each ball has ben thrown and caught once, even if you do two balls at a time (like in sync patterns).

A qualify for 4 balls is 8 catches, each ball thrown and caught twice.

Guili - - Parent

ah, so when you're juggling sync patterns, a flash is like that?
(didn't get we were talking about sync patterns before)

Sergei - - Parent

Thanks, Maria, I got the point. At least I can flash 4 balls column. Two simultaneous throws and two catches of 2 balls. I warms my ambitions that I can juggle 4 balls in this humble pattern )) Next step is to qualify this pattern ))

Sergei - - Parent

As I understand you live in Sweden where my sister lives for more than 20 years (Uppsala)

Maria - - Parent

Yes, I live in Sweden, not too far away from Uppsala either. I juggle in Stockholm, though.

7b_wizard -

Do you juggle more than you walk?

Competition type: Poll
Closing date: 25th Feb 2018
Select option to vote

Mike Moore - - Parent

Kneejerk reaction: of course not!

But now that I'm thinking about it...I'm not so sure. If we exclude walks under a couple minutes, then it's very close.

Maria - - Parent

Same... If I count every step as walking, I definitely walk more than I juggle (especially since it is not uncommon to walk while juggling, too).

If I only count outdoor walking it might actually be less than the juggling, even though I walk to work every day. Or maybe about the same amount of time.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Yes - meant walking several steps at least, so also walking around to pick up dropped balls, just as much as walking out of the house anyway. But not tripping single steps to correct one's positon while juggling, and also not taking one-two steps towards a dropped ball to pick it up while already bending down, but just really normally walking upright.

Basically, if one sits or drives a lot and doesn't usually need to walk a lot, AND-OR gets long runs a lot while juggling, not walking around a lot while practising, but rather mostly standing, then there's a great chance that they'd juggle more than they walk.

Maria - - Parent

Does walking while juggling count as both walking and juggling? (For example passing patterns where you are walking... I do those a lot.)

Does walking from the kitchen to the livingroom count, or only walking more than a few steps?

7b_wizard - - Parent

[see answer & distinction two posts above] .. I don't know what made me have that thought, but it struck me that I am actually juggling way more than I walk. Why "walk"? .. well, it's sooo genuinely normal, we think we do it always and forever and it's so omnipresent, it's part of our definition as upright walking humans. Yeah .. wrong! - we don't do it as much as we think .. we have cars, bikes, trams, planes, trains, busses; we have professions and desks where we sit; and for many people, jogging, walking, taking a walk, wandering is an activity that they (have to) take extra time for. Walking is not ``always there´´ as one might easily first think.

So, one juggler might indeed be juggling (notably) more time than doing what seems granted fro a member of the human upright walking species.

( It's a bit analogue to the insight that modern (over)civilized humans don't walk anymore as much as they used to and not walk as much anymore as what they were ``originally meant for´´, but have cars and sit a lot now, instead. Just that now for juggling, and if it's true for you. )

Guili - - Parent

if we take walking as an activity, not just moving yourself through the house, like maria said, then I definetively juggle a LOT more than i walk...

7b_wizard - - Parent

Any walking counts as "human upright walk", no matter where, while what (even while juggling). Just "time walked" versus "time juggled without walking". One-two steps don't count as really "walking upright" (and it's seconds only anyway), but time of indeed really (clearly) "walking while juggling" counts as +-0, and "walking through the house" is "walking" through the house and counts as such. - Anyway - if one's answer should depend on such distinctions and it's not clear, then please choose "3. Not sure." (unclear, not definitely or positively rather "yes", not definitely or with clear tendency towards rather "no")

Little Paul - - Parent

According to fatbit I walk more than 15k steps every day (which is around 10Km apparently)

There’s no way I juggle that much!

Sergei -

Learning 423.
I have invented one very simple exercise for 423. Two balls in left and one in right. 1. Left hand: toss one up and another to the right hand in "tennis" mode catch bothe balls (by left and right hand) and pause, `you have two balls in right and one in left now 2. Do in opposite direction and pause. Probably someone already knows this drill and I am innvented the "bicycle" )))

Maria - - Parent

I'm not sure if "tennis mode" means outside/over-the-top throw or something else, but I think a normal cascade-style throw for the 3 is the easiest.

My favorite practice for 423 was to just do one out of a cascade. One righthanded "straight" throw, skip the lefthanded throw, a normal righthanded throw and you are back to cascade. Make sure the straight throw is high enough so that you don't have to rush anything, the right hand should keep its normal rhythm.
Then the same with the other hand. Then just reduce the number of normal cascade throws in between until you only have the one 3 in 423 left.

Sergei -

Reverse Cascade. Help needed. Balls bump frequently. I am trying to toss each subsequent ball higher and higher. it works for sometime, but total mess in couple seconds ... It is surely wrong way. I have this feeling that top of opposite throws should be at equal high, but in different places. I am currently working on left hand tosses OVER two plastic bars at about 8" distance apart and at chin level. Any good ideas to tame reverse cascade?

pumpkineater23 - - Parent

'See' the sideways figure 8 shape in your minds-eye and keep the ball running along it. Be gentle and try to keep the rhythm uniform. Your hands will be moving in circles the opposite way to the cascade (left hand clockwise, right hand anti-clockwise).

pumpkineater23 - - Parent

*balls* not ball..

7b_wizard - - Parent

[service:]

sideways figure 8 shape = lemniscate, infinity symbol

html coding: ∝ ∝ ∝ ∞ ∞ ∞ [dunno which one will render]

Sergei - - Parent

yes, I tried throwing outside (just one ball) staying in paralel bar shoulder width/height and naturally got figure "8" sensation

Maria - - Parent

You are right, they should be equal height.

In regular Cascade, the throw from the right hand has its highest Point on the left side (and the left hand throw on the right side) since you are throwing from the inside to the outside.
In reverse Cascade, the throw from the right hand has its highest Point on the right side (and the left hand throw on the left side) since you are throwing from the outside to the inside.

That might help?

Sergei - - Parent

YES, it surely helps (I mean where top points are) I watched carefully some video in slow motion and noticed that in regular cascade TOP right throw goes to opposite ear projection? for reverse - it is the same ear/ Thanks a lot.

Scott Seltzer - - Parent

If it's getting higher and higher, then you're throwing too early. Wait a bit more for the previous ball to drop before you throw the next ball over it. You can practice over the top on one side (half-shower) and practice that also on your weak side before you do solid reverse cascade. For half-shower, it's good to practice controlling various height differences between the higher throw and the lower throw, and it's especially useful to gain control with the higher one just over the lower one. Another fun one to try is tennis which is the same ball over the top back and forth on each side while the other two do normal cascades. Good luck!

Sergei - - Parent

YES! It make sense for me. Thanks a lot for your suggestion. I surely need to improve the timing

Sergei -

I want to hear about your first "juggling magic experience". I was just tossing up 2 balls with my right hand with no hope to catches them as at age 67 I never even tried to learng juggling. Suddenly I felt that both balls are safely back in my hand. I was really wonder feeling for me ))) Wand to know about YOUR first juggling "wonders"/

7b_wizard - - Parent

wonderful question!

I can not remember, it is around 40-45 years ago, i think. First thing that I remember is that I was juggling three tennisballs as cascade when the sports teacher was gone for a few minutes and unlocked the small room where the balls are.

Only years later did I come back to juggling and learned tricks and 5 balls.

There's so many different kinds of magic, of fascination, of simply fun:
when I have control,
- I can shift focus on for example one distinct balls' orbit and follow it through the pattern,
- I can gaze through the pattern into the distant and do with peripheral view only and not see single balls anymore,
- I can gaze near the crossing point of the flightcurves, or near the top of the pattern and watch the balls burble up all the time,
short: it's queer and fun to watch my own ongoing pattern when it seems like my hands are doing by themselves with no need to focus or concentrate, just keep on doing and I can watch it.

That was optical impressions. But when my technique got much better, it became ``mental´´ - I get sensations of ``flow´´, or just very fluent juggling, and the kick lies less in the optical impression but more in the feeling of the hands going on moving right and well.
It is then, when the juggling ``snaps in´´, when I do with snapped-in timing and the rhythm is fluent and the pattern just ``rolls´´, when hands and balls' flights are synchronized.

It was also fun to land my first bodythrows, .. clawing wasn't such a revelation, but getting my first single backcrosses with 3 balls felt great! Like stepping through a door leading outdoors that was closed, lighting up my spirit.

Another kind of magic is when I get another trick, another pattern with a more or less broken rhythm (for example juggler's tennis) or a so called siteswap ( for example: [click! --> 441 or 34530 <-- click!] ). - It is then like in music, a rhythm or a beat or a melody, and it can be funky or have a crescendo or it can be galopped.
When I first get such a pattern, get the right heights, the right rhythm, the right timing all well, it will ``click´´ in the brain :o) dope I tell you!

And still then, what I find greatest, is, when the juggling, a pattern, is not only snapped-in, or not only clicked, but also when it is - suddenly or after working hard on it - .. when it is easy with no effort, when I can at a given moment of full control relax and let loose, breathe out, settle down, and I have the sensation of letting loose and the pattern will not collapse, but go on, like when walking.

Sergei - - Parent

yes, many guys recommended me claws, I tried it today and have the feeling I can learn it in couple days and I am not sure it will add much to my juggling experience )) Thanks a lot for sharing with me. It gives me some directions where "tasty" juggling things are hidden ))

7b_wizard - - Parent

These tasty juggling things are highly individually different, you''l hardly find two jugglers with the same repertoire.
Some go for "numbers", many balls or clubs or rings, .. some collect all the tricks with few balls that they can get, .. some go into a lot of contact elements like rolling or stalling ( =parking them somewhere for a beat or two or three) the props on and around bodyparts, .. there's related object manipulation skills like diabolo, devilstick, .. other artistry to combine, like walking globes, unicycle, .. fire juggling looks spectacular, .. some specialize on a certain trick family or on their style, .. don't forget passing with one or many partners, juggling games, .. and many many more things.
It's a huge and vast field and everyone can find themselves doing what suits them and what they like.

I like to watch, listen, feel which kinds of throws offer themselves in a given moment and fulfill those intuitions, but I surely also reproduce or imitate a lot of what I encounter others doing.

7b_wizard - - Parent

another magic is that "aha"-effect when you (suddenly) get a new trick pretty easily that you thought was hard, that looked hard when you first saw someone (or that animated stickman) do it -and realize it's not so hard at all now. - then also instructing others, teaching and watching them have such moments when they think or say "Hey wow! I can do it!" with bright eyes is even shared magic then.

Sergei - - Parent

YES ! Yesterday I was teaching 3 b cascade in the restaurant to young man using winter gloves as props ))

7b_wizard - - Parent

obsession. passion. keep that!

7b_wizard - - Parent

.. and still another kind of magic / tasty crossed my mind while just practising: the prospect of what you think you can do longterm next!? every pattern or trick or basic skill that you get down opens up new worlds of possibilities .. what seemed completely impossible(!) before, or what never even crossed your mind, and what you didn't dare to think of and consider, all of a sudden gets within reach! it's awesome!

Daniel Simu - - Parent

So many magical experiences... Such as when I discovered that I could climb stairs while juggling 3 balls... Or when someone showed me the factory trick and how to break it down, and I realized that there was a lot possible with 3 balls. Or when I tried to run 3 balls in one hand in the classroom in high school and I felt like it wasn't that hard after all.. But also still now, like last week when I tried a new sequence of connected 5b 3up 360s and figured that I could get it without too much effort! There are so many magical moments :)

7b_wizard - - Parent

yeah, .. "up + pirouette" feel great! .. Sergei, you can try that with "1 ball up + 360° pirouette" or ".. + 180° half turn".

Sergei - - Parent

I guess I will abstain abrupt 360 turns for a while as falling and breaking legs at my age can cost a lot ))) I quit training Karate (I am 4 grade black belt) last 4 years in order not to have serious injuries. Nevertheless I think it will be great to flash 3 up and make 360 turn. Let it be my "Golden dream" for next couple years ))

7b_wizard - - Parent

not "abrupt", but throw very high (outdoors or in a gym or hall), and you can turn slowly half way round for the (1 up) 180°-ies.   ( But, well, I see, no legwork, no stilts, no walking globe, then, whatever you like or suits you best, then. )

Sergei - - Parent

Thanks a lot, I got the point. My wife is Ballet Instructor and I hope she will coach me these turns ))

7b_wizard - - Parent

@ all Edge users - so little participation on this wonderful topic? .. c'mon folks, wake up and share your magic moments!

7b_wizard - - Parent

.. I could fancy, also for example passing, showbizz, first video uploaded, surprising yourself, would provide for some worth posting, no?

Maria - - Parent

The original post asked for my first "juggling magic experience", and I don't remember that! It was too long ago... I do remember being really happy about keeping 3 balls going for a few catches though, so that must have been in the beginning.

I have had the "magic" feeling a few times though. Like when walking and passing, turning around and seeing an incoming club exactly where I expected it to be. Or just when a nice passing pattern works well.

Of course, most of the "fist time I got that trick" moments are really good, too. :)

7b_wizard - - Parent

Yah, good. (oh yeah, I somehow overread that "first" in o.p.) .. [..] exactly where I expected it, oh yes, very good! .. Good moments, thx 4 sharing!

I really need to get into passing better soon than late!

Do you remember what or a moment that made you change towards or decide for juggling with clubs mainly?  ( surely better for passing, but .. )  did it also feel more comfortable, suit you more when you tried first(lol) time?

Maria - - Parent

Well, I had just learned to juggle a 3 ball Cascade (without knowing the name of the pattern) when I decided to buy clubs. I didn't know any jugglers by then, had just learned by myself and had no idea what else to do with the balls. To be honest, at first I saw clubs mostly as a practice prop for torches, though I had seen a juggler doing cool tricks with clubs, too.

It certainly didn't feel comfortable trying to juggle clubs at first! Like I said, I didn't know any jugglers, I tried to learn at home standing over my bed (which is a bad idea for club juggling, teaches you all the wrong technique). I more or less gave up on juggling, just picked up the balls or clubs a few times a year, then not at all...

...until 10-15 years later, when I went to "Medieval week" and a few other events and saw the jesters. They had a fire show, they were juggling torches, and they were passing with them! That's when I decided that, all right, this time I'm actually going to learn this. I took out my old clubs from the cupboard, started practising twice a week (only for about 15-20 minutes), still by myself, couldn't find any other jugglers nearby. A few months later I visited my first juggling Convention, only over the day, but it was fun and I saw 3 passers doing Roundabout. I was like "oooh, that is cool, I want to do that!". (My juggling was still not good enough to join the beginner passing workshop, though.) I still didn't have jugglers where I lived, but I moved about half a year later, found a place to practise with someone who knew a little bit of club passing, went to another juggling Convention, where I met Staffan from my current juggling club (Fritidsjonglörerna), started practising with them and... Well, that was a long answer, but I think passing was the main reason that I choose to almost only juggle clubs. That and the "fact" that they look cooler than balls. ;)

7b_wizard - - Parent

I read: the spark came by the fire!? .. and by roundabout passing. .. Very nice story, very motivating / inciting too. thx 4 takin' the time!

You should do  t o r c h e s !!  :-O  :o)

Maria - - Parent

I have torches, and I have juggled them a little bit, but honestly... Not quite as fun as trying to do passing patterns that are just a little bit too difficult, with regular clubs. There is a video on Facebook where I am passing torches with two of my friends, though. Happy to have done it, will probably do it again, but it's not important any more. :)

Sergei - - Parent

Can I borrow your "tasty" juggling experience ? )) I expect that juggling while walking can boost serotonin in my brains )))

Maria - - Parent

Juggling while Walking (and turning around) is good for many fun passing patterns, I recommend it!

pumpkineater23 - - Parent

After my first few months of juggling I dropped something (a Cherry Bakewell I think) whilst fumbling around in a high cupboard. The catch was perfect and came out of nowhere. It really surprised me.. it felt super-human, like that scene in The Fly when he catches the fly. I'm actually quite good at catching flies too with my juggling-enhanced lightning reflexes. Mating flies are the best. They're slower when they're mating and opening a hand to release two flies really blows people's minds!

Stephen Meschke - - Parent

Juggling 7 balls for more than 100 catches feels pretty magical. I try to do that every day if I can.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Agreed (for 50-70 catches in my case, and for if I even get these) .. feels unreal when it ``rolls all by itself´´.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Not sure about my first magical moment. I can tell you the first trick I did that I never thought I'd be able to do was 97531. Hitting that for the first time made me very happy!

There have been a few more recently. Mostly little steps toward fully inverted sprung cascade, because I had some doubt that I'd ever be able to do it.

Guili - - Parent

hello sergei!
I wanted to tell you, not about my first magical experience (i've been juggling on-and-off for almost 20 years now!) but about my last one.
yesterday i was practicing for 7 balls (my biggest focus these days). I've been trying it for a few years, but never with these days' stubborness :) . so, yesterday i got to catch the first 5 throws, not much ok, but the trajectory of those balls was so nice, almost perfect... they just landed on my hands...
we all now moments like this last only a few seconds... but when you train for 7b... you really treasure those seconds... since all the rest of the time you will be crawling to retrieve the balls... jajja

Joerg - - Parent

I have learned 3 ball cascade almost 30 years ago and do not remember any magical moment from that time. Finally in 2012 i wanted to learn more and came across a web site called 'kingscascade' with a lot of three ball tricks. I also bought the book 'The Encyclopedia of Ball Juggling' of Chrlie Dancey and wanted to teach myself Mill's Mess. Charlie had a very motivating way to describe tricks: 'The Mill's Mess is the crème de la crème of the three-ball juggling patterns. A tongue-twister of triple trickery! Anti-gravitational hand jive in the key of three balls!'.
A magical moment was when i finally could manage Mill's Mess and directly afterwards i joined a juggling club.

The second magical moment was a year later when I have learned the 5 ball cascade and it feels no longer hard. To cite Charley once more: 'The Five Ball Cascade' is the purest five pall pattern there is. It is a landmark in the juggling carrer of anyone who achieves it, the beginning (and for many the end) of Numbers Juggling. Whenever you see a Five Ball Cascade you can be sure of one thing - that juggler has been practicing a lot'.

I hope for some more moments when 7 ball cascade and 3 ball inverted box feel easy.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Joerg - - Parent

Thanks for the service and taking me 5 years back. I remember that i have learned Mills Mess by the tip: Learn windmill in both directions and then continously change directoin after one round. This does not directly end up in Mills Mess but to something very similar.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Yw, .. jus' wanted to remind it's been archived. - Depending on at which moment, with which throw you start the sidechange it would become Flo's Mess instead Mills Mess; (but there's of course endless more variations for confusion).

Joerg - - Parent

I remember another 'magical' moment: The first time when i can look through a juggling pattern and not focusing at one position. I remember this moment when passing 6 clubs and i could look into the eyes of my partner.

7b_wizard -

Did you ever - as far as you're aware, of course - dream that you toss*-juggle?

Yes:
1. Yes. Often or sometimes and with clear memory of it.
2. Yes, often or sometimes, but memory is dim or I forget soon or right after after waking up.
3. Yes, once or twice. Clearly.
4. Yes, once or twice. Dimly.

5. Somewhat \ Maybe:
6. Not really - only single throws and catches. Or only throws to drops. Or only slightly very shortly losing physical contact to the prop before catching it again rightaway.
7. I think so, but I'm not sure 'cos the memory of it is dim and nebulous or mixed up.

8. No \ Rather not:
9. I dream of conventions or of meetings or of folks or of being in a gym or of any juggling setup or of being onstage or of having an audience or of having my props with me and in reach and getting ready, but astonishingly never do or can't manage to actually really toss and really juggle one single throw.
10. Could have been possible, can't exclude, might have, but any corresponding memory is too dim and nebulous to really tell. Rather not.
11. Definitely, not that I know. No memory of the kind. Nowhere near.

12. [ other ]

*"toss" - or fly and catch a diabolo, or run a devilstick, or foot- or knee-juggle a soccer ball, headbounces, or also scarve-juggling, .. anything where you lose physical contact to your prop. And catching, or at least the intention to catch, should be included. - So, I'd like contact-juggling, contact-staff, spinning, twirling, balancing and alike to be excluded.

This is a competition thread which ran from 19th Nov 2017 to 26th Nov 2017. View results.

7b_wizard - - Parent

I'm 7. Would love to improve over night, though. Also forgot to include the choice "Constantly, it's unnerving, I wake up from it everytime I drop." lol

I can - not while dreaming, but when awake - visualize throws (and then upto where they fly until I do the next throw to focus on, which is about to their apex), but then don't know where the balls are for catching (they sort of fade or vanish in a still life from where I last pictured them), .. so, when visualizing more rounds after launch, I have to take the catches for granted (and from seeing balls at launch before my mind's eye, I go over to instead feeling my handmovement + thrust + aiming or so). [ #dream #visualize ]

Scott Seltzer - - Parent

I think I've only ever dreamt of juggling once. I dream of juggling conventions fairly often. There frequently isn't any juggling in the juggling convention dreams, but I know I'm at a juggling convention. I'll give myself a 7.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Okay. Sounds more like "maybe, rather yes" to me(?). Then maybe 3. or 4, (both definite "yes"), if you're sure, you did, or 6. if you're you're not all sure, but positively think you did, would fit better? - 7. was really more meant as an "almost, but definitely not" .. everything is ready and setup to juggle, but you don't or can't or don't know how (the emphasis is not on the surroundings-story, but just to elude on "nearly could and should've but it didn't happen"). Actually, I meant the poll to find out how many are even able to juggle while dreaming. (But, hey, whatever you think! I'm happy about everyone who finds a choice that fits him.)

7b_wizard - - Parent

It's not all clear: does "you think" in "I think I've only ever dreamt of juggling once." refer to "dreamt of juggling" or to "ever only once"? Do or do you not have a memory of indeed yourself juggling?

Scott Seltzer - - Parent

I've definitely dreamt about juggling conventions. I may have dreamt about actual juggling. I don't usually remember my dreams well nor conversations about them. I slightly remember discussing having a juggling dream that wasn't the usual so I think I may have been juggling in it. Or perhaps I actually saw juggling (as the convention dreams don't usually (or ever?) have juggling in them. It's all a bit hazy for sure. I'm a definite 7 and maybe a 4 but I won't commit to that.

Maria - - Parent

I have dreamt I was passing clubs at least twice. I don't remember details (like what pattern or passing partners) but I think I remembered a bit more right after I woke up. I believe I woke up in the middle of the pattern, not after dropping. Good dreams. :)

I'll put that as a 4.

Have definitely dreamt of juggling conventions a few times, too. At least more times than about actual juggling... As far as I can remember, of course.

Maria - - Parent

...and shortly after I wrote that answer I slept and dreamed about working out new take-out passing patterns (on paper and by walking through the moves) together with another passer that I know from conventions. I know who the other juggler was but not what pattern we were working on. No actual juggling in that dream, though.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Double yes:
First without effort, and second when I was learning to lucid dream.

(I don't bother with lucid dreaming anymore)

7b_wizard - - Parent

Awesome. Can you still recall that ´´film´´, can you remember the pattern(s) and if you juggled same that you juggle when you really juggle (awake) or better and harder pattern(s), did it feel like real juggling with you controlling, acting & reacting, or did it somehow ´´hover´´, go all by itself, with you being able to watch like your own audience, was it °-.,~°happy°~.,.-°, did you ´´upgrade´´ first step to superhuman juggler, did it impact on your real juggling or did it rather seem as a fulfilment of your real juggling, a confirmation, a validation, a corroboration burnt by and into subconsciousness as affirmation?

Mike Moore - - Parent

The first time I dreamt about juggling was the most memorable. Myself and many friends were lined up to enter jail cells (for some unknown reason, but we were all resigned to it). I was among the first group locked away, but at the time (when awake), I'd often vaguely fantasized about going to jail and juggling all day, every day. I juggled a 3b cascade while sitting on some riser (a crate?). I dropped, the ball went off my foot and rolled out of the cell to a yet-to-be restrained friend of mine. They shot me such a nasty look that it woke me up.

When I was practicing lucid dreaming, I dreamt of practicing 7b cascade (probably half a dozen times or so). I didn't find that it helped, and found that I woke less rested than usual when this happened, so I stopped. Maaaybe this helped me "feel" what it was like to run it, but I doubt it had any real benefit. I was able to slow things down, see things from a third party point of view, etc.

7b_wizard - - Parent

fantasized about going to jail and juggling all day, every day.

I - when awake - sometimes have that martial arts movie-picture ("The snake in the shadow of the Eagle" or sth) of Jackie Chan training (barehanded) in a desert in my mind's eye, or that guy with his nunchucks-like three-parts-staff practising.

Nice story!

Sobers me up a bit that it shouldn't have any practise effect as I imagined. I'd still do it, though :o) (°gee° slomo, zoom at will, third party view - sounds sooo cool!)

Jan Poolen - - Parent

Yes, fun question. I remember it vividly.
First time I dreamed of flashing 7 clubs under the low ceilling at the place where I used to take breaks while juggling at the squash courts.
Second time I dreamed doing exactly 50 catches of 9 balls and being really content about my achievment(maybe one day I will really do it, and be satisfied in real life )
Third time, I did 5 connected db97531's with balls while sitting down on a chair.
Sweet dreams

7b_wizard - - Parent

So cool! Amazing. Did you also feel the juggling in your hands or just rather like watched yourself do it?

Marvin - - Parent

This competition has now ended with 11 votes cast. The results are:

1.   Yes. Often or sometimes and with clear memory of it. (2 votes)
2.   Yes, often or sometimes, but memory is dim or I forget soon or right after after waking up. (0 votes)
3.   Yes, once or twice. Clearly. (2 votes)
4.   Yes, once or twice. Dimly. (1 vote)
5.   Not really - only single throws and catches. Or only throws to drops. Or only slightly very shortly losing physical contact to the prop before catching it again rightaway. (1 vote)
6.   I think so, but I'm not sure 'cos the memory of it is dim and nebulous or mixed up. (1 vote)
7.   I dream of conventions or of meetings or of folks or of being in a gym or of any juggling setup or of being onstage or of having an audience or of having my props with me and in reach and getting ready, but astonishingly never do or can't manage to actually really toss and really juggle one single throw. (1 vote)
8.   Could have been possible, can't exclude, might have, but any corresponding memory is too dim and nebulous to really tell. Rather not. (0 votes)
9.   Definitely, not that I know. No memory of the kind. Nowhere near. (3 votes)
10.   [ other ] (0 votes)

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Yeah Marvin, you did the thing!

7b_wizard - - Parent

Had one clear dream now too: with 4 or 5 big green bell peppers [ surely due to a current fruit-prop thread on reddit and me recently buying much bigger than usual single unpacked big green peppers (not three of mixed colors, packed) ].
[Makes my vote for "7", now a "3", makes it overall 6 in 11 Dreamers, 2 Maybies, 3 Non-Dreamers].
I could remember it clearly right after I woke up during it, and clearly reminisc parts of it. But alas already can't remember it well anymore, now.
Mostly snapped-in fluent pattern, little to no correcting, no effort felt. Not sure anymore if it felt overwhelming (maybe that a bit too) or rather like a normal thing to do (rather that). Now, which pattern? - memory is mixed now: I think a clear rather big clean 5b cascade. But also I have some gaps or holds and 4b juggling in mind, maybe a 4b-7707700 [inspired by Giuli's 1-7 ball Sevens?] or 552. Those veggies didn't handle clunkily as they should've with their stems and not round, but always just the way you usually grasp them, or near like how I imagine larger stage balls would too [I've been wanting to use larger balls for 7b for a while].
Again very dim memory only of where it took place, I think on some lawn in a park with people around.
Nice mind-candy, more than welcome.

7b_wizard -

What's the longest toss-juggling endurance you ever did?

(no matter which pattern, which prop)

1. I don't really endure anything
2. less than a minute
3. between 1 and 3 min
4. between 3 and 5 min
5. between 5 and 10 min
6. between 10 and 30 min
7. between 30 min and 1 h
8. between 1 and 4 h
9. marathon, more than 4 h

I hope to find - if many of us vote - how popular or common enduring even is (and for how long).

This is a competition thread which ran from 9th Nov 2017 to 16th Nov 2017. View results.

It's Him - - Parent

About 25 years ago I worked for a juggling stall that had a competition which was to juggle 3 x 1.5 Kg Splats as long as possible. I think the winner was about 45 minutes. Shortly after that I tried to match that time with 3 x 1 Kg Absolutes. I matched it but killed my wrists doing it and suffered from tendonitis for quite a while. I'm not sure that endurance is necessarily the way to go but it made for an interesting competition.

Nigel

Daniel Simu - - Parent

What are Splats and Absolutes? I know Absolute rings but they are definitely not 1kg :p

The Void - - Parent

Big beanbags.

Ameron Rosvall - - Parent

Sounds very painful, can kinda relate, though what you did must have been worse. I did 3 beanbags with wrist weights for 1 hour once, beanbags were just 200g each and weights were 1.5kg each. Still very exhausting.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Longest endurances have been my worst dropless joggling races

Maria - - Parent

I did my longest endurance when I had only juggled for two years. It was 20 minutes of 3 clubs cascade. I'm not planning on doing any longer endurance of any pattern.

7b_wizard - - Parent

°oupps° .. a logical inconsistency in the poll again: ..ever did? versus 1. ..don't really now..

Please read ( 1. I don't really endure anything ) as "1. I never really endured anything."!

Maria - - Parent

That is how I understood it.
I was thinking, though... If you want to find out how popular endurance is, it might also be interesting to know if people are planning/hoping to achieve longer runs in the future, and how long. I have no desire to spend a lot of time trying to get as long runs as possible any more, but I would like to be able to do patterns for, like, 5 minutes or something. But I guess that wouldn't really count as endurance, it would more be about getting the pattern really solid.

7b_wizard - - Parent

I'm not planning to do anything longer than my 3b 12 minutes. Yes, especially for important basic patterns, 5 minutes is pretty much okay for me too. Yet, with 5 min x 60 sec x ~5~6 throws/sec = ~1,500 throws, that I got near to once only with 5 balls, I still don't feel like really having ``mastered´´ the pattern, it's far from ``like walking´´. So either I'll have to get more runs over 1,000 or indeed do many more throws and minutes. But it's sooo time intensive while learning tricks and other patterns instead is much more rewarding (and hard and challenging enough and worthwhile too).

Maria - - Parent

I have not been close to 5 minutes with any other pattern than 3 objects cascade yet. Could probably do it with a basic passing pattern with the right partner (6 clubs 4-count, 2-count or 3-count). Solo patterns... maybe 423 could work.
I'm definitely not even close with 4 objects, my personal record being just a little bit over 200 catches. But that might actually be a bit of an endurance thing, I do get tired when juggling 4 clubs. Arms starting to get tired before 100 catches, and my pulse is definitely high, too.

Yeah, it's more fun to learn new tricks and patterns than spending lots of time on the ones that already kind of works.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Mine was 12+ minutes of 3b cascade.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

2360c of 5b. that would be about 10m I suppose

pumpkineater23 - - Parent

1 - 3 minutes..

Marvin - - Parent

This poll has now ended. The results are:

1.   I don't really endure anything (0 votes)
2.   less than a minute (0 votes)
3.   between 1 and 3 min (1 vote)
4.   between 3 and 5 min (1 vote)
5.   between 5 and 10 min (4 votes)
6.   between 10 and 30 min (8 votes)
7.   between 30 min and 1 h (6 votes)
8.   between 1 and 4 h (2 votes)
9.   marathon, more than 4 h (0 votes)

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Ey Marvin, I know I could easily add up the numbers myself, but would you consider posting the total amount of votes next time as well? (22 this time)
If you're interested, you could even go as far as showing the percentage of voters that voted for a particular option. (36% voted for nr6)

Marvin - - Parent

Yes, I can include the total number of votes cast. Totting up a few tiny integers for you is an excellent use of my mental capacity. Do you find percentages useful when the total votes is considerably under 100?

And no, I have never been interested in any of these polls.

Monte - - Parent

Here I am, brain the size of a planet. Count they tell me. Call that job satisfaction,'cause I don't.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

It's not so much about a percentage as it is about quickly seeing that about one third of the voters voted for number 6, which is not easy to see right now. Of course, as a statistic it is near meaningless with such few participants.

Lisa Dale -

Hello, first time user, looking forward to the possibilities. Juggling Love :)

Maria - - Parent

Hi Lisa! :) Welcome to The Edge, nice to see you here.

Orinoco - - Parent

Welcome aboard! What sort of juggling are you into?

Dee - - Parent

Welcome to the Edge Lisa... thanks for supplying me with coffee at the EJC!

It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on EJCs (and what sort of thoughts you have had post the organising workshop hosted by the EJA).

Brook Roberts -

21st September 2013, at Bristol juggling convention. One my passing resources I take to conventions is James' sheet of passing siteswaps (https://goo.gl/b9UYT9), with 4 handed siteswaps grouped into categories. In discussion with someone (who eludes me now), I claim an amusing challenge might be to try and do all of the siteswaps on the sheet, with some rules about what 'completing' a pattern means. Some basic rules are drawn up - 8 rounds to a clean finish for period 3 siteswaps, 6 rounds to a clean finish for period 5 or 7, holds must be active and flipped, and a few others.

Keen and eager, I accost various people at the convention to tick off patterns, redoing completions if the pattern was a bit messy, teaching people new patterns and e.g. ticking off 966 (7 club 3 count) with someone who had never tried the pattern before. Danny is keen to motor through some with me, and he suggests it would be amusing to have various achievements like in video games - an achievement for completing your first pattern with me, an achievement for completing an entire section (we promptly find an easy section with only 4 patterns and complete it), one for getting a pattern in every section, and so on.

Back home from the convention, excited about my new incredibly nerdy challenge, I decide I should keep an electronic copy (rather than just ticking off on the sheet) of my progress, since I know how often I lose things. I make a few auto stats keeping things. One thing it tells me is how many patterns are on the sheet. Whenever I have shown the sheet to people on papre and asked how many patterns there are, they guess about 100, somewhere in the 80-200 range. It turns out there are 534! It also turns out there 202 sync patterns (actually 101, but the two sides do different things, and I decided I should do both sides), which on reflection don't look as fun as the others. On closer examination (and in discussion with James') it becomes apparent that some of the sections are somewhere between hard and impossible. He laughs when I tell him of the idea of doing all of them and points at the '8 clubs with zaps' section. Zaps, 2.5p's, are very fast passes, and there are plenty of very hard 5 and 6 club patterns with zaps - it's doubtful if anyone has ever tried any of the 14 patterns in that section, or if anyone is capable of trying them.

I plough on regardless, making fun progress. At one point I make a strong concerted effort over many sessions to make progress towards my first 9 club pattern, a89, with Alex, a juggler near me. Just as we get close, he moves away! But at the next convention, where we have set aside the entire morning to finally nail this, it takes about 4 attempts, and a milestone feels reached. It starts to get harder however, and the pool of people I can do the patterns with shrinks. Getting new people on the sheet is a fun goal, but the skill someone has to have to get on the sheet grows. The enormity of the task dawns, and while for well over a year I manage to keep my average above 1 pattern per day, it gets harder. As I get to around 40%, motivation drops, the realisation that I'm not even halfway through grows and the knowledge that almost all of the remaining patterns are harder than almost those I've done is daunting.

For over a year, progress is slow. I feel lost in the middle of the sheet. At conventions people ask me how the sheet is going, and it always feels disappointing to admit I've not done much recently. For a while I don't have a regular passing partner who can plough through the sheet with me.

Eventually though, I get over 60%, and I'm counting down rather than up. The feel is a bit different - I only do the patterns with an increasing small and able group of partners, and there's no chance of me redoing messy runs - I take any clean finish I can, in some cases fudging the timing way beyond sensible to cram a pattern to completion. I have increasing esoteric knowledge of ways patterns will be difficult, and regularly describe what the difficulties and solutions to doing a certain siteswap will be to my partner - before we even try it once. As I get closer to my goal, motivation increases, but there's always this worry that at some point the patterns become fundamentally impossible, that at some point progress will dramatically slowdown. I guess that this might happen at about 80%, or 85%, and that after that every single pattern will become a monumental effort.

Today I just ticked over 85%, and the pattern that took me there was a8958. It was the first ever pattern I achieved from the 8 clubs with zaps section of the sheet, the only section that until today I had failed to get a single pattern from. And more than that, it proved that I could get the patterns in that section, and that progress is still possible. To get there, I had to train zaps repeatedly with the same partner, Cameron, for the last month, but we removed a slew of 6 and 7 club zap patterns in the process.

I'm now at 85.02% done, with 80 patterns left. 39 different jugglers have helped me get here, although over 50% of the entire sheet (not just those I've done) has been done by just 4 passers. The majority of patterns left are sync patterns, and the majority that aren't sync are zap patterns - there are precious few 'normal' patterns left, and I'm not rushing to do those!

It's not always clear that I enjoy ticking the patterns off sometimes, nor whether doing 454 (and counting) different siteswaps and juggling conventions has caused me to sometimes ignore other, possibly better (!) activities or passing patterns. That week in Bristol, I think I would still decide to embark on this quest, but possibly I would do it better with some forewarning of just how ludicrous this rather pointless task would be. But I'm increasing excited about seeing the end, and increasing determined to push forwards and actually complete this gigantic task, that many quite knowledgeable passers thought was difficult almost to the point of impossibility.

In case anyone read this far:
a) well done
b) https://goo.gl/utxfDP shows the patterns I have completed so far, and the names and summary tabs show some stats about my progress
c) https://youtu.be/mBKy65d08fw is the 8 club with zap pattern. It looks, er, like a lot of the other patterns I do
d) Cameron and I warm up with Holy Grail now, so we filmed a long run - https://youtu.be/jXdxYa1DELk
e) http://jugglingedge.com/forum.php?ThreadID=2335&SmallID=16982#Small16982 is my post from when I got to 50%
f) If you think you can do one of the remaining patterns, are not on the sheet and I don't know you, let me know :)

Brook

Brook Roberts - - Parent

The longest post I ever make, and there's a major grammar error on the first line :S Fancy fixing that someone, and making me a bit more satisfied with my monologue?

lukeburrage - - Parent

I'm so happy you and Cameron found each other.

jamesfrancis - - Parent

Worth pointing out that of the 80, 8 are invalid and one doesn't involve any actual passing...

I think of the ones left, about 10 are just too hard. You seem to have actually ticked one of these patterns off so maybe I am underestimating how much you and Cameron in particular have improved.

I wish you had stats on total time attempting patterns. I know we have spent close to 2 hours on single patterns before and I would guess the average is at least 20 minutes if not more. At 20 minutes on average this would give you 6.3 solid days to get the 454 patterns.

lukeburrage - - Parent

I was surprised to see I had only ticked off six patterns with Brook, as it felt like we put in a few hours of time at Bungay a few years ago. But if the average is about 20 minutes, then that seems about right. Although, if I remember correctly, one of them was a double ended pattern and we both did both ends, so the second version might have taken less time.

Now I want to try a seven or eight club zap pattern.

jamesfrancis - - Parent

56789 and 96956 are my favorites with 7. Both have a nice flow compared with some of the uglier patterns

Maria - - Parent

Oh, now I want to try, too... Should work a bit on my zaps.

Brook Roberts - - Parent

a5695 was one that I quite enjoyed as well.

lukeburrage - - Parent

Triple self, zap, self, triple pass, zap? Do you have a video?

Brook Roberts - - Parent

Triple self, self, zap, zap, double pass.
No, I've videoed very few of the patterns so far. Maybe I'll do it as part of my warm up with Cameron next time we do zaps though, now I've been reminded of it.

lukeburrage - - Parent

I think you should start the list again and get a video of every pattern.

Brook Roberts - - Parent

Six is quite a few :) We got at least one of those at EJC I think?

James suggested some nice patterns, if you just want to try any 7 club zap pattern though, 885 is far easier that almost any of the other 7 club zap patterns. I feel like 885, 975 and 56789 were the only ones I'd regularly tried outside the sheet.

Brook Roberts - - Parent

Ye of little faith, still! All the 8 with zaps will be hard work, but I think fundamentally doable, although maybe more like projects now. We failed the collect of 9a5 yesterday, so another will go soon :)

Yeah, I wish I had collected all sorts of things from the start. I think the mean and median would be very different here - there were quite a few that went quite fast, and then a few way out that I treated much more like projects (a89 when I ticked that off, and a8958 were both concerted efforts over multiple sessions). I actually ticked of 5p34 first time with Rhonda although that's a bit of an anomaly - we had been doing it anyway, and then I remembered it was on the sheet, so the first time after that we landed the collect.

thatguywhojuggles -

Hello! My name is Walter Beals. Jon asked me to introduce myself here. I've been juggling since 1993. For the past 10 years I've been performing with Forty Fingers & a Missing Tooth. Sadly Britt, after 10 years, has left for graduate school, so we are down 10 fingers. But the remaining 3 of us still perform. Since Britt had the missing tooth, I guess you can now call us Thirty Fingers and a Missing Missing Tooth!

We've been organizing a juggling festival every year for the last several years. This year is our 7th Annual Asheville Juggling Festival. The festival will be Sept 22-24th. More information can be found at: http://ashevillejugglingfestival.com

This is the second juggling festival I've been part of founding. I was the sole founder of The Humboldt Juggling Festival, going into its 18th year, and I helped create the Asheville Juggling Festival with the other members of FF&MT.

I hope you can make it!

Orinoco - - Parent

Welcome to the Edge Walter & thanks for adding your event to the database. Seeing as you have apparently managed it twice, any secrets to successfully setting up a long running festival?

thatguywhojuggles - - Parent

I was a huge fan of the Lodi Juggling Festival back in its day. I would say both the festivals I've organized/helped organize were loosely modeled on that festival (minus the camping.)

I organized the 1st Humboldt Festival by myself, but after the first year, other jugglers pitched in and started helping out. By the 4th festival, it was a smooth running machine. I would say the success of that festival was that the school has a well established juggling club that is able to keep the festival going, and has lots of resources from the school including space.

The Asheville Juggling Festival is going smoothly because I work well with my fellow "fingers" and we have been together for over 10 years, so it was easy to keep doing it each year. We've been lucky so far having a space to do the festival, but after this year, we will have to find a new space. :(

EricS - - Parent

I love the Asheville fest, I've gone the last two years. I'm sorry to miss this year (I'm attending Flow Camp for the first time) but I will be back!

Maria - - Parent

Hi Walter! Nice to see you on the Edge. :)

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