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varkor -

Guinness world records for juggling...

I recently heard that for (some/all?) marathon-style events, GWR permits (accumulating) breaks every hour — for example, a 5-minute break every hour. Since the 3- and 4-ball endurance world records were both awarded by GWR, I was wondering whether anyone knew whether this was also the case for the juggling records?

Call me a purist, but it seems that, as impressive as juggling for 12 hours, with only short breaks in, is — it wouldn't be fair to strictly count time after taking breaks, and it'd be nice to know if this was the case for those records. Anyone know, or have any thoughts?

furlisht - - Parent

I'd like to know that as well, I always wondered how a normal human being deals with basic human commodity for 12 hours while juggling!

Scott Seltzer - - Parent

It's been suggested that an adult diaper might be helpful. Also drinking from a straw and being fed carefully.

Kelhoon - - Parent

or a few cycles of "eating the apple" ?

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Once you sign up for doing an actual entry, you get an email including aaalll of the specifications and rules regarding that particular entry (if one has been set before). So I recommend pretending you're going to set something.
I've done so ages ago for a record, wasn't too complicated.

varkor - - Parent

Ah, that's good advice, thank you! I just sent a general enquiry a moment ago, but if they can't give me the information, I shall do that! I'll report back here when I know more.

varkor - - Parent

Their general enquiry reply was a lot of auto-generated nonsense, so I've submitted a record attempt form. Let's see where that goes...

Scott Seltzer - - Parent

Doesn't answer your questions, but here's an interview with the record holder that was just published: https://www.juggle.org/interview-david-slick/

Daniel Simu - - Parent

From the interview: "No breaks allowed and the throwing must alternate hands."

Daniel Simu - - Parent

And then in the promo video posted in the article there is a news caption:
"David Slick goes 12 hours without eating, drinking or bathroom break"

varkor - - Parent

That's much more detailed than anything I managed to find previously, thanks! That seems to support a continuous 12-hour record, which is comforting! (Especially the quotes about training for a long time to be able to do that.)

Jedi Juggler - - Parent

By "must alternate hands", does that mean you can't set records for synchronous patterns? Or would it still be alright since both hands are used? What about siteswaps with a "0" where you end up throwing with the same hand twice?

Daniel Simu - - Parent

I guess for this particular record they want you to throw a cascade, and "must alternate hands" was the way Guinness describes the cascade. Of course one can try and be creative with the rules, but first we must consult the full rule document which Varkor might receive soon.

peterbone - - Parent

I think that the records they allow short breaks for are not skill based. For example, longest time spend video gaming.

Mike Moore -

Inverted sprung basic siteswaps

Not as hard as I thought they'd be! Still hardish, though, especially 531 which needs to have VERY precise timing.

IS441: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bbf35t4H5-2/?taken-by=artifaxiom

IS423: https://www.instagram.com/p/BbNu2yaHlbC/?taken-by=artifaxiom

IS531: https://www.instagram.com/p/BbS8pzLHTc6/?taken-by=artifaxiom

Thanks to Julius for showing the world that inverted sprung cascade was possible to do as a solid pattern, and to Quinn Lewis for encouraging me to work on it.

pumpkineater23 - - Parent

That is amazing Mike. Truly next level!!!

furlisht - - Parent

Super impressive, I didn't know it was possible! Great job!

The Void -

Peter Richardson 3-Ball stack. Found this clip from last years's BJC on my phone.
http://juggling.tv/16287

#bjc2017 #bjc

The Void - - Parent

Whoops! Copyfail.
http://juggling.tv/16288

7b_wizard - - Parent

Great watch. Also strong 5c bx and nice 7b cascade in the background.

Little Paul - - Parent

Nice, he's getting good at that (and isn't cheating by using those horrible saggy slomo/gertie balls favoured by some 3 ball stack spinners ;)

Although I did get somewhat distracted by Luke Burrage failing to flash 6 clubs in the background. I thought you had that more solid than that Luke? Or were you just having a bad day?

lukeburrage - - Parent

There is another video from this same session where I'm nailing 5 club backcrosses over and over in the background. So it wasn't too bad of a day.

lukeburrage - - Parent

Turns out that's me failing to flash 7 clubs.

The Void - - Parent

One better! :)

Colin E. - - Parent

he can do one more then you.

Little Paul - - Parent

Ahh, well, that would line up better with my mental picture of your skill level :)

mtb - - Parent

Is this one of those tricks that it more difficult than it looks? Because it looked reasonably easy, although not something one can do in the first couple of attempts.

The Void - - Parent

Peter's been ball-spinning for a long time, so he's good at it. When you're good at something, it often "looks easy" to the uninitiated.
It isn't.

mtb - - Parent

Yeah, I thought it was one of those. I have never tried it, so was asking in pure ignorance.

I will say that I was not expecting it to be that much more difficult than I thought it was, based on Nigel's comment below.

Little Paul - - Parent

It jumps up surprisingly fast (unless you're cheating and using the saggy balloon balls that the americans like so much)

If spinning 1 ball = juggling 3 balls, a 2 ball stack is 5 balls, and a 3 ball stack is probably somewhere around 9 balls.

4 balls stacked is just crazy. I've only ever heard of one person getting anywhere with it.

I learned to spin a ball in a little over a week, about 10-15 years ago. Took me about another month to get it comfortably solid a while to get it "solid" - a broadly comparable amount of time to learning a 3 ball cascade.

A few years later I spent a week long festival mostly working on adding a second ball, it stayed on for probably 3 seconds at best. I think in total, that reflects the amount of practice time it took me to go from a solid 3 ball pattern cascade to 10-15 catches of 5 balls.

That was probably nearly a decade ago, and although I admit I don't work on it that often, I've never got more than about 15 seconds of a 2 ball stack (with proper balls) which feels like the equivalent amount of work that it took me to get up to 100 catches of 5 balls.

You can imagine how long I think it would take me to add a 3rd ball!

mtb - - Parent

Sjoe!

It's Him - - Parent

I've been ball spinning for around 15 years. I can stack two balls sometimes but three is definitely beyond me. I've seen Pete stack 4 balls once in 2004 (BJC Derby) at around 01:00. Shame there was no-one around to record that.

Nigel

furlisht - - Parent

Nice looking trick, but i'll be honest with you, I expected to see at least 3 balls in this video.

lukeburrage -

I don't share many of my juggling videos here at the Edge, but this one is an exception:

https://youtu.be/M22bYjTWJw0

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Well done! The third song is my favorite, it's funny!! Thanks for running the poll again this year :)

A suggestion, perhaps put the names of the jugglers in the subtitles?

lukeburrage - - Parent

Nah, I'll leave it to people to do their own research.

pumpkineater23 - - Parent

If the names were listed then some people might watch with the sound off and miss out on Luke's amazing rapping!

As always I enjoyed the video. The top 40's inject lots of very positive stuff to the juggling world I think, thanks for doing them.

furlisht - - Parent

Nice one, didn't expect that! Thanks again!

Orinoco -

There are two possibly unpopular changes that I'd like to make to the Edge.

At the moment all links found within post content open in a new window. My original reasoning being that if you were composing a post using the inline reply box then clicked a link you would lose your post. This is the wrong thing to do because people who genuinely do want to open a link in the same tab have no option to do so, & all links outside of post content open in the same tab anyway.

Secondly, in 2017 I'd like to have to stop explaining what 'Small talk' is. Since Big talk was axed it makes no sense to make any distinction so I'd like to simply replace all references to 'small talk' with 'forum'.

Anyone (or rather: 'how many people have'!) got any objections?

furlisht - - Parent

As a person who rarely post but lurks intensively, here's what i think:

1) Links : Any chance that you could do this change but add a "open in new tab" button (this small icon : http://jugglingedge.com/userfiles/Orinoco/SmallTalkFiles/newwindow.png) near the links? That would help people visualize more what they are doing when clicking on the link or the icon.

2) No objections

furlisht - - Parent

Of course if you could edit this horrendous image, that would be great :D. Sorry about that

Orinoco - - Parent

Hahahaha! Icon resized to match the description :P

The Void - - Parent

1. I'm generally in the habit of right-click>newtabbing , or tap-hold>newtabbing anyway, so no bg deal for me. I expect I'd get caught out a few times, but I'd get over it.
2. No objections, but have you considered "Talk"? Maybe "forum" is a word you'd like to show up in searches...

After reading your thread title, I was pretty worried, but these don't seem like that big a deal to me.

....actually I'm now more concerned that I don't know whether I think it should be "that big a deal" or "that big of a deal"...

7b_wizard - - Parent

Trifles. Thanks for asking!   1. I'm pretty good at clicking - I'll manage.   2. "Names are (but) sound and smoke." [ german saying :o) ="What's in a name?"]

Little Paul - - Parent

Omg! Nooo!

Not really, go for whatever - I don't think either of those are a massive issue from my POV

Slightly surprised you didn't set it as a poll though :)

david - - Parent

Forum is not my favorite name after my phorum experience. Also I'm not a fan of the Roman Empire. I guess Home is taken, perhaps The Edge or just Edge would work. Or Talk. Actually I' l learn to ignore it anyway. I can adjust to different links as well.

The Void - - Parent

Thanks for giving me the chance to use the word synecdoche in context.

Orinoco - - Parent

Synecdoche, that makes 29803.

Slowly catching up.

My Vocabulary Size is about: 30150!* What about you? https://t.co/4HajgDpL2a #NLN I'm in the top 0.01% most arrogant.
*allegedly.
— The Void (@TheVoidTLMB) July 13, 2016

david - - Parent

29800

Daniel Simu - - Parent

I too vote for Talk

7b_wizard -

What is "juggling" ..

            .. FOR YOU ?

            ( nevermind what's all to be seen on videos, nevermind any ``best´´ definitions )

Please try to name just the keywords, first major associations that you have when you think of "your juggling"!  ( Be it what you actually do, be it what you want, what you're haunted by, be it what you love most about it. )

7b_wizard - - Parent

I think of 7b cascade, its rolling top of its pattern.   Bodythrows  ( mainly backcrosses, under the arm, reachovers, claws, rolls, with fewer balls then, selfspeaking ).   Multiplexing.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Peace, focus, fight, friends.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Throwing, catching, balance...

furlisht - - Parent

Failing
Failing again
Succeeding
Finding a moment of joy
Seeking perfection
Sharing all those moments with other jugglers

Then there's another trick to learn, another failure, another moment of joy, another thing to share

Little Paul - - Parent

Something diverting to watch while sharing tea, cake and biscuits with my friends.

Maria - - Parent

Clubs spinning in the air
Always trying to learn something new, or struggling with tricks I want to get better at
The feeling of accomplishment when I get a new trick
The joy of passing with other jugglers, trying to get a good round of a pattern that is a bit difficult
A way to enjoy myself, staying active and meeting friends

Monte - - Parent

A way to keep in touch with some special people I've met over the years. Oh and a bit of showing off too.

pumpkineater23 - - Parent

*For me* it's a dance (not to be confused with dancing whilst juggling). I'd prefer if was also a little more 'puzzle solving' or creative puzzle solving.

I haven't been practicing much recently which is a great shame I think.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Problem solving is a great way to put it. For me, there are two kinds of problem solving for juggling:
While freestyling: my method here is to put myself in awkward positions, then figure out how to get out of them. Sometimes I'll try putting myself into the same position a few times, and seeing if I can react in different ways.
Knocking out a pattern on paper, or in my head. "I want this attribute, then this one...how can I make it continuous, with no setup throws, and ambidextrous?"

Louise Kennedy -

Just wanted to let everyone on here know.
Haavard and I have made a 1 Hour video and just to let you all know you will be able to download it from here tomorrow at 3pm GMT.
http://www.corrections.club/

Currently 3 people have already seen it and wrote a review each. See below.
Ps we are both looking forward to sharing it with everyone.

Matthew Tiffany wrote,
'Not even in my dreams would I imagine some of the tricks in this movie, Corrections is so much more because of its, corrections!
The hour long film shows what its like to be a juggler, not a performer. It lovingly documents the art form and community that surrounds it from the perspective of two of the world’s current favourite jugglers. The childish humour and ‘spectacular’ acting break up juggling that’s so hard it barely fits on the screen. Although it might be the first juggling video to deserve a 15 age certificate!
Like an album of songs this video has everything from a quiet solo balled to a prog rock masterpiece, but it is best viewed in my opinion, without a break, at least the first time. With stellar juggling performances from the main cast, great cameos and unexpected humorous treats along the way, this one will inspire you to ring your mates and go JUGGLE!! Thanks so much for this gift to the community.'

Naoya Aoki from Japan wrote this,
'It's going to be open tomorrow, one hour and a juggling video.
Louis Kennedy and the e were edited by sen.
It was really bad. It was like this.

Skateboard
We're going in the ambulance, Julian.
Quantum Leap
The Naked Christian Van Vick
Toilet
Cheese Pasta
With a knife that laughs like crazy lewis
Rapper
Quantum Leap
Other... (such as an excellent performance by a large number of juggler, etc.

This is how it is to be released free.
I used to remember this very well-done, man. No, I don't.
It may be a good time to see it, DL.

It's open to the public tomorrow. I hope you enjoyed it. There's no way I can see it.
http://www.corrections.club

I just finished watching the video that Lewis and Haavard edited!!
Sorry guys that I tasted this juicy footage earlier than you.
Honestly it was really great.
As my apology, I’ll put sneak peek here only for you guys.
Don't tell Lewis and Haavard!
The video includes contents below.

-Skateboarding
-Ambulance taking Julian to the hospital
-Time machine
-Hot Kristian Wanvik
-Toilet
-Cheesy pasta
-Lewis Kennedy having a knife in hand and laughing like crazy
-Rapper
-Time machine
etc… (ex. awesome juggling by various jugglers)

and guys, this will be available for FREE from tomorrow via the link below anyways!
http://www.corrections.club

Mega!!!'


and finally Peter Åberg wrote this,
'Corrections is a movie made from the love, and for the fun of juggling!
It's full of extremely technical juggling tricks, mostly with balls and clubs. But even if you're in to ring juggling you will not be disappointed, the norwegian Power Rangers has something for everyone.'

HIGH FIVE
This is a movie everyone should watch!

Louise Kennedy - - Parent

Well I dont really understand why this post messed up. :P
and now I can't delete or edit it.
but not to worry. :P

Jedi Juggler - - Parent

I couldn't wait to get home from work and watch this today! From start to finish I absolutely loved it! It had such a "fun" feel to it all the while displaying some of the most mind blowing juggling I've ever seen. My only criticism is that now I want to quit my job and juggle my life away, but would that really be so bad??? Keep up the awesome work, man!

Louise Kennedy - - Parent

haha!

Thans for the nice words Jedi, it inspires us to juggling more and more. :)
HIGH FIVE!!!

Mike Moore - - Parent

Had some jugglers over and we all enjoyed watching this video. There were loads of absolutely KILLER moments! The choreography for the passing section really stood out to me, it was beautiful.

Louise Kennedy - - Parent

Thanks Mike!!!

I think the passing sections was my favourite tbh. We put a lot of time into that sections. :)
HIGH FIVE man.
ps I expect to see a video from you soon. :P
hehe

mtb - - Parent

Ooof... That ball passing. Really enjoyed this, thanks so much for the trouble and effort.

Louise Kennedy - - Parent

Danke man!!!
The ball passing was one of my favourites sections.

HIGH FIVE for watching and commenting. :)

mtb - - Parent

Another question: since when did clubs become as easy to juggle as balls? I am clearly doing something wrong....

furlisht - - Parent

I just watched the video/movie with a friend and boy did we swear a lot directly to the screen! This video has everything, crazy tricks made by crazy people, lot of feel good in it backed with serious juggling shit! The knife sessions were a bit frightening though!

Anyway, we loved it!

Daniel Simu - - Parent

I finally finished watching it completely, thank you so much Lewis and Haavard!

My favorite parts are the Kristian Wanvik section and the 5 ball tricks done with 5 clubs!

Well done :D

varkor -

12 minutes and 52 seconds
https://youtu.be/w14sfOZaQu0

No, I too cannot think of anything more interesting to do than watch 13 minutes of a 7-ball cascade.

Stephen Meschke - - Parent

Gatto no longer owns the 7 object trifecta. His record with 7 balls was 11 minutes 37 seconds in 2011.

Ethan - - Parent

For some strange reason I feel really happy, but at the same time really sad..........

Orinoco - - Parent

That really shows how dedicated Ofek is. There is no way I could go to that place & juggle when there are so many other things to play with!

furlisht - - Parent

The important part for me is the fact that the new world record was made with kids running around him! Super impressive!

furlisht -

Hello everyone!

I'm asking for your help! In the gymnasium we use for our circus school, we are required to meet new security standard. We teach aerial silk (is this the correct word?), we used to just have a strong cord with some climbing gear but they wont allow is to use that anymore because it can move sideways (it never has but we have to meet standards...).
The steel girder we have is a round one.
Does somebody have an idea of what we could use to fix a silk on this round girder? Knowing it has to be strongly attached and deny the silk to move sideways?

Sorry for the bad english, i hope you get the idea and can help me!

Regards

bad1dobby - - Parent

Hello Furlisht,

Please get a rigger!

There are many ways to solve your problem, but the only way to know what is safe in your particular situation is to personally view the girder and your gear. It's easy to forget how dangerous it is to hang people upside down - don't want to be a scaremonger, but I personally know of two people who have broken their necks from failure of aerial rigging/equipment - one is now paraplegic. The best thing you can do is get a qualified rigger to advise you.

furlisht - - Parent

Thanks, i'll try to find someone in charge of something similar.

peterbone - - Parent

Without any knowledge of rigging I would guess that you need some sort of collar that would fit around the girder left and right of the silk. But it would need to have no sharp edges that the silk could rub against.

Little Paul - - Parent

Without any knowledge of rigging I would recommend you talk to someone with specialist knowledge of rigging rather than listening to well intentioned people on the internet - especially as the safety rules and accepted approaches can vary from country to country.

In my opinion, it's not worth taking the risk

furlisht - - Parent

Thank you, i'm asking here because we are pretty much left in the dark, I've seen our kind of installation a lot in different gyms, but we can't do it anymore "like this" in ours, but the owners of the gymnasium can't and won't give us any clue whatshowever to what he wants, that's why i was asking in the first place what possibility exists

7b_wizard - - Parent

You could ask L'Ecole de Cirque de Bruxelles and Ecole Supérieure des Arts du Cirque (ESAC) how they did theirs .. they might also give you hints on local installers \ technicians \ firms offering such service and or gear-providers.

^Tom_ - - Parent

Nonsense, gaffa tape and blu tack ought to be solid enough. Failing that, pritt stick is pretty strong.



(Ok, on second thoughts, maybe I'm not qualified.)

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Reccommended reading for anyone having to deal with circus rigging/safety is the FEDEC guide: http://www.fedec.eu/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/m8en.pdf

Assuming that your steel girder is safe, it should not be too difficult to connect a silk safely. It is easy to get hold of slings that allow working load of 1 ton, and by wrapping it around the girder so that you have 2 loops coming down you almost double that to 2 tons. However, indeed sliding is a problem because this can wear out the equipment. If it is difficult to install a completely static (steel) connector, an easier solution might be a second security sling. Connect to the carabiner on the silk with a bit of slack, so that if the first sling should ever break the second sling (which should not have worn out since there is no tension on it) it will hold.
Make sure that your carabiner/shackle/swivel also has a high workload. Only steel is acceptible, aluminium climbing gear is not made for regular tension (you fall once and throw them out) and can break without warning, whereas steel will visibly bend.
Check your equipment from time to time using your own common sense and good judgement. Risks are real and can be prevented!

I am not a rigger.


Daniel Simu - - Parent

I forgot:

Another common beginner mistake is to not secure your link openings. Carabiners, shackles, quicklinks, they can all open unintendedly from shocks, outside friction, etc..

Carabiners: Different types need different types of security, but in general carabiners are designed to open quickly! Therefor never ideal for locations where they remain for a long time.

Quick links: Thread facing, twist the connector downwards so that gravity prevents the connector to unwind from shocks. A bit of tape around the link can stop it from rotating.

Shackles: Usually they have an eye in the connecting part. By threading a cable tie through the eye and the inside of the shackle and tightning it, the connector cant rotate.

Orinoco - - Parent

A bit of tape around the link can stop it from rotating

Daniel, please stop!

I've been working for a company that supplies a lot of industrial safety & access companies for the last 5 years. I know a lot about the subject but I can safely say I'm not qualified to give advice! As mentioned get a safety & access rigging company to take a look at your set up. Rigging is a skilled job that requires assessing specific situations. Try someone like CRI (based in Mechelen), if they can't help you they will almost certainly know someone who can:

http://www.cri-ropeaccess.com/

Mini - - Parent

Same here.

I covered rigging in my apprenticeship and then supervised heavy lifting for a decade. I would happily rig fit myself. But not at all for others. Get professional help dude

furlisht - - Parent

Thanks for all the answers!

To clarify a bit, we do not use climbing gear (my mistake) but special karabiner for this specific use, same for the cord. In this point, we are good.

furlisht -

Hello community,

Next week i'm leaving for the EJC! It's the first time i'm attending such a big convention. Since it's a ten days stretch, what would you recommend from experience for me to absolutely put in my bag?

Cheers

Little Paul - - Parent

My priorities for a big fest are:
- somewhere to sleep
- something to wear
- something to wash/dry/de-sweat with
- my wallet

The last one is so I can buy everything I've forgotten to take with me :)

Oh, and a bottle opener.

furlisht - - Parent

Ahh, the bottle opener :-)

Dee - - Parent

Not so much on what to add to your bag, but what to remember while you are there: SLEEP.
Seriously, pace yourself; it's a long enough event that you will crash and burn if you don't sleep. If you are camping, make sure that you have tent, sleeping bag and camping mat to help with the sleeping. Also, volunteering is a great way to get to know other jugglers outside of any group that you may already know.

Try to eat healthily - so you may decide to bring some cooking equipment with you. Bring a notebook and pencil/pen if you plan to go to workshops [to take notes]. There isn't much in the way of shade onsite, so you may want to bring an emergency blanket [tin-foil style] to put over your tent, if camping (you will need to consider how you plan to attach it to your tent!). I would recommend trying to go for a hammock this year [this year in particular seems to have a site without many "hanging points" for hammocks].

I'll be on registration desk during the first few days so you may spot me on arrival; this will be my 11th EJC in a row. I won't be bringing any of my own clubs [but will be transporting some for repair] - I cause enough of a shock when juggling (at an EJC) that I find that I don't need to bring any standard props with me at this stage!

emilyw - - Parent

also if you see Dee while you are there, tell her to sleep! :-)

Dee - - Parent

I have a hotel room for the first few days to encourage me to sleep during the more frantic part [for me at least] of the EJC..

furlisht - - Parent

If you have a sticker with your name with it, i'll remember and tell you to sleep!

mrawa - - Parent

Personal Preference (always):
- Water bottle - although you can always buy a plastic bottle of something an reuse it
- Knife/chopstick/eating implements (I usually have travel ones)
- Inflatable cushion - good for sleeping and sitting on the floor (there usually aren't many chairs)
- Bottle Opener
- Space Blanket - (tinfoil looking thing) I put it on the outside of my tent to prevent it from overheating, as it helps reflect of the sun. You can get an extra couple of hours sleep that way.

(optional)
- Can opener - I tend to buy canned food from a local shop
- pen paper
- Juggling stuff
- external battery
- books/kindle/music

Might be an idea to download the tripadvisor app. It's pretty good for seeing what there is to do around the place if you want a break from the convention.

furlisht - - Parent

Space blanket seems like a really good idea! If i can win a few hours of sleep, i'll take it!

pumpkineater23 - - Parent

Always pack good quality drugs into your bag. First and foremost you're going to be needing plenty of marijuana so bring as much of that as you can fit. A few grams of MDMA always goes down well.. not all for you of course you can be generous with that stuff. A bag of pills wouldn't be a bad idea either, for those time when you're so totally out of it you can't sort out the MDMA out into little bombs. There may be some good opportunities for psychedelics while you're there so don't forget to include those into your pack. I usually bring a few bottles of Brandy too.. nothing like a good pint of brandy with your breakfast - an excellent way to start the day!

Jared Davis - - Parent

Whatever you do, DO NOT camp near the beer tent. I made this mistake and the drum circle was pounding on their drums until well after sunrise every day. I'd say get there early and find a good spot to camp. Also, bring ear plugs. It would probably be a good idea to camp with friends or share a tent. I had some props stolen. Had I camped with a group of friends, I don't think that would have happened. Have fun!

furlisht - - Parent

This :D. I made this mistake once already, not twice!

emilyw - - Parent

If anyone tries playing the drums in the night in a campsite near me I might organise a tank driving workshop over their tent the next day, or maybe a stabbing people workshop.

furlisht - - Parent

I'd attend this workshop

Little Paul - - Parent

no need to use up all those petrochemicals and ripping up the ground driving tanks around, or getting all that messy blood all over you...

just take a stanley knife to the top skin of the drum - problem solved.

 

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