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Cedric Lackpot -

What ever happened to ... ?

So, I found myself thinking about Jouni Temonen, a fabulous juggler from Finland who I met maybe a dozen or so years ago, and he's one of those really great jugglers who seems to have dropped completely off the radar. And I started wondering whether it's because he's doing better, more professional things, or perhaps he's got a proper job/life/baby or whatever and doesn't really inhabit the juggling world so much any more.

And then that got me thinking about Joost Dessing, and wondering what on earth he's up to now. And the more you think about it, the more gifted talents you will remember that seem to have disappeared off the scene for one reason or another.

So who do you recall, who was infuriatingly talented but has since moved on with their lives?

Mike Moore - - Parent

Maybe Michael Falkov. One of the best 3b jugglers ever (IMO, top 3, arguably the very top), but is super off-grid. Not sure if he's juggled in the last ~2 years.

Orinoco - - Parent

Reuben Cohn-Gordon, Arron Gregg & Anthony Gatto (obviously!) are the names who immediately spring to my mind.

Similarly, is it my imagination or is the 'lifetime' of a juggler getting shorter? For example I feel that the more recent BYJotY competitors have not remained as visible in the scene as the earlier competitors (Norbi, Tiff, Tom Derrick, Arron Sparks, Jon Udry, Matt Pang etc.). Has the increased average skill level & easier access to the 'next big thing' made staying in the community's consciousness harder? Has the top level of juggling reached the point where physical limits are being hit & injury is forcing people out sooner?

Mike Moore - - Parent

Oof, I definitely miss Reuben Cohn-Gordon. I had a brief chat with him May 2014 when I was getting into squeeze catches. At that point he implied that he was still juggling some. Maybe there's hope.

It's an interesting point about youngins not staying on the scene as long these days. I got curious about IJA juniors winners...and I wish I knew if more of them still juggled. Below are some of the winners and whether or not they still juggle (to my knowledge)

2005
Komei Aoki - Yes
Takashi Kikyo - Yes

2006
Tony Pezzo - YES
Billy Watson - ?

2007
Nate Martin - ?
Teruki Okamoto - I think so

2008
Ben Hestness - ?

2009
David Ferman - ?
Jack Levy - ?

2010
Noah Malone - Yes
David Ferman - ?
Lauge Benjaminsen - Yes

2011
David Ferman - ?
Jack Denger - ? (stopped making videos)
Patrick Fraser - Pretty much stopped

2012
Kellin Quinn - YES
Jack Denger - ?
Ashley Ellis - ?

2013
Ashley Ellis - ?

It's Him - - Parent

It seems to me that the number of people entering BYJOTY has reduced and that the average skill level is also less. Whether this is because the people attending BJC are getting older (and hence less youngsters are around to compete) or the general skill level is higher and so the good youngsters don't stand out so much or some other reason I couldn't say. Still at least a few of the recent winners are still very much on the scene and in the community consciousness. It was only about 4 years ago that Arthur Hyam won.

Nigel

peterbone - - Parent

As well as other things in life getting in the way, one thing I've noticed based mainly on myself and is that as you get older you tend to seek praise from others less. This is why we make juggling videos of ourselves. As I get older I'm juggling just as much but making far fewer videos. People therefore think I've stopped juggling. I was recently asked to film a section for a video about people who've stopped juggling!

Dee - - Parent

What Joost is up to is very easy to find [he is based in Queen's in Belfast]. His research seems to have veered towards football rather than juggling (probably related to sources of funding).

Monte - - Parent

I miss Brian, nobody does a 5 cheese showers like he did.

Little Paul - - Parent

You’ve just reminded me of “Charlie Cheese and the wheel of cheese!”

It’s cheeky as cheese Charlie!

Orinoco -

You can now include links to instagram posts in the records section.

We also have a new +ringonankle modifier for Norbi Gatto style 'with a ring spinning on the ankle' type tricks.

That is all.

#NewFeature

Orinoco - - Parent

That should've been Norbi/Gatto. I'm pretty sure Norbi has not married into Nick's family.

Although I can't say that with complete certainty.

Mike Moore - - Parent

He wasn't at Turbo this year. Probably honeymooning.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

If only there was an "edit your post" feature ;)

Cedric Lackpot - - Parent

There is. In Reddit, Facebook, Instagram, blogs, forums, Uncle Tom Cobbleigh and all ...

Norbi - - Parent

Now just to add +ringonankle to http://www.jugglingedge.com/help/tossformat.php where she belongs

Little Paul -

Not strictly speaking juggling, but you're the sort of people who may be able to help.

I'm looking for a reliable UK supplier of qualatex 260q modelling balloons. We've ordered two batches recently from different sellers on amazon, the first sent us balloons with a best before date of 2013 (not great for a natural latex product, but I went with it at the time as it was only to amuse my nices/nephew - and I just put up with the high burst rate)

However, the more recent seller subbed in a different brand of balloons to that which was advertised. That sales are being dealt with via the appropriate returns procedure, but having bitten twice now, I want a reliable supplier with a reasonable enough turnover of stock that I'm not going to be shipped something that's 4 years past its best before date.

Ideally I want somewhere that carries stock of the single colours, but I'll take a standard entertainer mix.

Any ideas?

It's Him - - Parent

Do you have any mates in Bristol who are balloon modellers? Or do any of the local entertainers know a local balloon modeller? People who do it regularly tend to buy in large quantities (as it is quite a bit cheaper) e.g. I tend to buy 50 entertainers assortment bags per order (and occasionally some single colours as blues and pinks are more popular). This lasts me about 6 months and I don't do that much balloon modelling so someone who is much more into it will have a quicker turnover.

Nigel

Cedric Lackpot - - Parent

Last time I looked, which was quite a while ago, Pioneer were the UK distributors for Qualatex. They were always quick and efficient with me. Or I could just give you some.

Little Paul - - Parent

As far as I can tell Pioneer (or at least that particular Pioneer) are a US outfit, however it simply hadn't occurred to me to look for a list of distributors on the Qualatex website.

They list quite a few UK distributors (although unfortunately none in Bristol) so I might go down that route.

Cedric Lackpot - - Parent

Likewise, it didn't occur to me to examine my inbox for unread spam from the buggers. Graham Lee is the chap to speak to - graham@balloonchat.co.uk - or use his Qualatex addy - graham@qualatexballoons.co.uk

But I expect you're ahead of the curve by now.

Little Paul - - Parent

I’m all sorted now, thanks to you and Nigel for the help!

Cedric Lackpot -

A glossary of juggling terminology - does such a thing exist?

In this subthread over on Reddit someone has asked for a glossary of modern juggling, and to my surprise I realised that I'm not sure such a thing exists, not an authoritative one anyway. Can any Edgizens prove me wrong please? Or suggest some good places for a curious Redditor to start looking? David Cain do you perhaps have some suggestions?

peterbone - - Parent

I think it was our God Emperor who created this one. Seems quite thorough.
https://www.twjc.co.uk/glossary.html

Dee - - Parent

Although I would question "Backdrop"; to me that is what is behind you - in terms of filming or performing (so, do your props contrast sufficiently with the backdrop or do they blend in?) [I would definitely include that as an alternative meaning]

Otherwise, its a pretty good start on a juggling glossary, it maybe requiring a bit of updating in terms of references to people (perhaps, to make it a bit more timeless, I would omit living people from the glossary)

Orinoco - - Parent

Yeah, I couldn't find anything comprehensive when I looked either, which was what prompted me to compile that page.

It's been a while since I've added anything to that page, I think the last addition was buugeng.

I have added the extra definition for backdrop. I've also removed most of the living jugglers from view. I've left in those who I feel are more famous for a contribution they have made to juggling culture rather than for who they are.

New suggestions are always welcome. Any glaring ommissions from the past few years that I should include?

Mike Moore - - Parent

Box and an inverted modifier!

peterbone - - Parent

Squeeze catch

Orinoco - - Parent

Both terms added, & inverse too which is related. Suggestions for less clunkily worded definitions also welcome!

lukeburrage - - Parent

"Combat: US term for Gladiators" should be "Gladiators: the British term for combat".

Orinoco - - Parent

Yeah, I suppose you are right, it does seem to be a purely British term now. I wonder when that changed? I clearly remember it being announced as gladiators during the games at the EJC in 2002.

& is it a 3 club specific thing? I don't think I've ever heard the term 'unicycle combat' for example.

lukeburrage - - Parent

Gladiators is more of a generic term for "the last person doing this prop/skill with contact between participants allowed" so unicycle gladiators is usually still a thing. Also hoop gladiators or ball-on-head gladiators.

Combat is for three clubs and three balls.

charlieh - - Parent

I think it changed when too many people started using the wrong word.

The Void - - Parent

*spills coffee laughing*

York Jugglers -

We were looking at the publicity claims we could make for Chocfest 23 (20 January 2018) and wondered if we could claim it is the longest continous running annual UK one-day juggling convention

Looking at data on Juggling Edge:

Chocfest has been going every year since 1996

Cambridge started the year before, but there was a 13 year gap between the 5th Cambridge and Camvention

Leeds had a convention in 1992 but didn't have their next one till 1998 and missed out 2000, 2003, 2004 and 2009

Manchester has been going since 1999, but not in 2015 or 2016

Lestival has been going since 2008

Bath UpChuck has been going since 2009

Milton Keynes since 2010

For juggling conventions of more than one day:

BJC has been going since 1988

Crawley has been going since 1993 but missed 1998, 2012 and 2017

Bungay has been going since 1999

Play has been since 2005

Broxford has been going since 2014, but could be considered to be continuation of Bristol going from 1989 to 2013

#Chocfest

Cedric Lackpot - - Parent

Bungay had quite a long hiatus a few years ago didn't it?

Likewise I don't think Play has been continuous.

But Broxford is - so I'm told - very much Bristol in Oxford, and Brizzle started before the advent of human history.

The Void - - Parent

"Bungay had quite a long hiatus a few years ago didn't it?"
No. Glad we cleared that up.

York Jugglers - - Parent

You are right there was no Play in 2015 and according to Juggling Edge not in 2008, 2009 or 2010.

As Void says Bungay has been every year since its start (even through the foot & mouth outbreak of 2001)

Orinoco - - Parent

I quite enjoyed that period where everyone was practicing antipodism & ping-pong ball juggling.

charlieh - - Parent

Actually Bungay ran for 5 years from 1999-2003 and then in 2004 we held our wedding on the farm, with the convention proper returning the year after and running every year since. The wedding was pretty juggly though and at least one person turned up thinking it was the usual convention. We invited them to join us anyway.

I wouldn't rely on Void, he's not been to all the Bungays....:)

The Void - - Parent

If you look at what I actually typed, not what York Jugglers assumed I wrote, you'll find that I was correct. :-P
Can I start a campaign that MBTM actually stands for "More Bungays Than Most"?

Oh, and "General Gordon"!

charlieh - - Parent

I shall have my revenge at some point I'm sure. This (next) year I think we should do Taskmaster.

Charlie
MBTV

York Jugglers - - Parent

Sorry for my assumption (and failure to count accurately the number of Bungays)

Cedric Lackpot -

Shaker cups - how it should be done.

https://gfycat.com/NearEnergeticCowrie

Found over at /r/flippyshit along with all manner of other eye-boggling athletic stuff.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Goodness! .. doesn't that violate gravity?

Little Paul - - Parent

By “how it should be done” do you mean as a gif with no sound?

Cedric Lackpot - - Parent

SHAKER. CUPS. FTW. MOFO!!

Btw, I don't suppose you saw the splendid retro wrestling clip from /r/flippyshit? It's worth it just for the potty sound effects :-

https://youtu.be/cenS5gpiHPo

So we know that those wrestling rings are somewhat padded, but that 4m jump into a 1.5 front flip landing what is essentially a crash dive (old trampolining term, dunno what it would be in other disciplines) is fucking mental. Look for it at 0:39.

Cedric Lackpot -

Three person vertax dragon diabolo.

Nothing particularly special but I've never seen a diabolo fitted with a streamer before so I thought I'd share. If you slow it down to 1/8 speed you can see that it's a one-sided/lop-sided diabolo they are using. I imagine the streamer has huuuuge potential to get in the way.

https://gfycat.com/DangerousAlienatedBat

Orinoco -

"Not terribly pretty"

https://youtu.be/YAtR1lTO8XA

Cedric Lackpot - - Parent

Useless fecking loser needs TWO hands to catch the last one! What a pathetic waster, he's going nowhere fast.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Queer .. I saw nothing, only a still picture of the solar system with a tiny lightblue brahman hovering a handwidth above ground on Jupiter. Guess, my subconscience did that to protect me.

The Void - - Parent

Not bad if you like that sort of thing. Not bad at all.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

I flashed 8 balls today. I was bored, had to wait 15 minutes, there were some cheap beanbags lying around... I don't even juggle beanbags, ugh! Worst of all, I did it after only 5 minutes of trying so then I had to kill another 10 minutes somehow..

Where are my cool points?

The Void - - Parent

On the other side of the pillow.

peterbone - - Parent

Three cycles. That's got to be some kind of landmark. Amazing how the pattern seems less clean than most of his previous records. It sounds like he's changed balls and is using ultraleather ones for 11 now.

Thom! -

Balancing and juggling (and juggling and balancing)

Hey guys!

I wrote up a little tutorial on learning to juggle with a balance (or... is it learning to balance with a juggle?..!)

Thought some of you might get a kick out of it! Curious to hear if my experiences are parallel with any of your own.

http://thomwall.com/balancing-and-juggling/

Cheers!

--Thom

Cedric Lackpot - - Parent

That was an excellent read, thank you. Please show it to /r/juggling as well if you haven't already.

I found myself both agreeing and disagreeing with so much of it. But that's a reflection of my understanding of the trick, which has changed considerably over time. I used to think that it should be regarded as a single trick rather than a combination of two, but I eventually realised that it's better if you let the balance come first. I'm still not sure it isn't actually a single trick, but nowadays I very much agree with the importance of focusing on the balance.

But since I learned the trick before I learned to focus completely on the balance it seems evident that one can divide one's attention somewhat, and still succeed. It's hard to remember but I think back then I tried not to look at any one thing at all, just see the whole picture.

Thom! - - Parent

Thanks, Cedric! Just posted it over on Reddit. (Feel free to give an upvote! ha!)

I'm still not sure it's a single trick, either, haha. I think that three with a balance is certainly "canon" enough that can stand on its own as a trick, but find that learning different tricks while maintaining the balance makes that perspective lacking... (would you agree?)

Your comment about dividing attention definitely corresponds with my experience with headbounce... if you focus on any one thing too much, it all falls apart. You've got to see the whole thing all at once!

Little Paul - - Parent

Just got around to reading it, and I think that you've covered everything I either picked up from other people or intuitively tried in the "conscious incompetence" phase.

I like the way you've written it up and illustrated it though - and I think you actually managed to describe why I've never found the forehead balance as comfortable as everyone seems to have told me it is - it's because I have to flip my perception.

You might even have inspired me to have another crack at getting it solid.

Thom! - - Parent

Awesome! I'm really excited that there wasn't much new info in there for you, actually... Doing my best to be comprehensive with these posts, and if I've covered everything that's occurred to you, I must be doing something right!

The Void - - Parent

Good stuff. When learning the Bungay trick, I remembered Haggis McLeod's exhortation from his Club Juggling instructional video: DON'T DROP THE BALANCE. (Which pretty much summarises your article in a sentence.) It's really hard to keep doing that when you're first trying to add some throws under the balance, but it pays dividends in the end.

I never did work hard enough on just a club balance with a cascade. Maybe I should try again....

Thom! - - Parent

Way cool! Is Haggis' video online anywhere? I'd love to see it!

The Void - - Parent

I don't think so. Theoretically, it's still for sale, I believe.

Little Paul - - Parent

I think I made a VHS rip of it and still have it on my PC somewhere, but I didn't put it online because oddballs were selling it on DVD at the time.

It makes for wonderful "omg the hair! The clothes! The sheer bloody 1990s of it all"

Scott Seltzer - - Parent

Good stuff, Thom. A few thoughts:

I think I remember hearing that Gatto recommended the forehead balance since it gives the audience a better view of your face. That insight is presumably from Nick, actually. So, forehead might be better for performer-types.

The Reading Test is my favorite drill before you put it all together. Work on it a lot after your balance is solid and before you work on adding the juggling. Try to get your head back as far as you can, even looking up somewhat behind straight up so you rely on minimal peripheral vision of the clubs.

Placing into a Balance - the trick here is to catch the club you're going to put into a balance up high and as close to the balance point as possible so there's not a lot of movement (and time) to get it into the balance. Watch people doing constant balances on one side and you'll see very high catches and minimal movement to actually put the clubs into the balance/roll).

One thing you didn't mention is clubs vs balls. Learning with 3 clubs is much easier than with 3 balls since you will see the clubs easier with your peripheral vision than balls which are generally thrown lower (throwing them high enough for suitable juggling with a balance is an unnatural slow rhythm). 4 balls is similarish height to 3 clubs so a reasonable start for those who prefer sphericals. I think it was "The Complete Juggler" that suggested that even numbers might actually be easier for juggling with a balance.

peterbone - - Parent

I'm guessing that even numbers would only be easier for the nose or chin balance since the club would obscure the crossing point of the cascade.

Funny that you say up high when referring to what I would call the bottom of the handle. Perhaps your mental model of a club is the other way round to mine. The disadvantage of catching near the knob for placing into a balance is that it's harder to get it to the right angle, but you're right that it can be quicker and easier to position it accurately.

Scott Seltzer - - Parent

By "up high" I meant with your arm raised up high, right near your forehead. Another thing about this is that the throw should be one and a quarter spin so instead of catching the club perpendicular to your body line like normal, you catching it more vertically, oriented and ready for quick placement on your face.

peterbone - - Parent

OK, I see. Misunderstood you completely then.

JonPeat -

The Sheffield Circus Convention 2017 – Review (UK)


My review of the Sheffield Circus Convention is now available for your perusal:

http://www.juggle.org/sheffield-circus-convention-2017-review-uk/



Thank you once again to the organising team for putting on the event. :-)

Cheers, Jon

#SCSC2017

Orinoco - - Parent

I think fire ukulele would be good. No particular reason, I just always wish they were on fire.

It's Him - - Parent

Fire drums!

Same reasoning. Thankfully there isn't the same amount of drumming happening at BJCs at the start of the millennium it was almost constant.

Nigel

Cedric Lackpot - - Parent

> Thankfully there isn't the same amount of drumming happening at BJCs at the start of the millennium it was almost constant.

Still there, just drowned out by middle-aged whining ;-)

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