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7b_wizard -

Do you juggle more than you walk?

  1. Yes.
  2. No.
  3. Not sure.

Competition type: Poll
Closing date: 25th Feb 2018
Select option to vote

Mike Moore - - Parent

Kneejerk reaction: of course not!

But now that I'm thinking about it...I'm not so sure. If we exclude walks under a couple minutes, then it's very close.

Maria - - Parent

Same... If I count every step as walking, I definitely walk more than I juggle (especially since it is not uncommon to walk while juggling, too).

If I only count outdoor walking it might actually be less than the juggling, even though I walk to work every day. Or maybe about the same amount of time.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Yes - meant walking several steps at least, so also walking around to pick up dropped balls, just as much as walking out of the house anyway. But not tripping single steps to correct one's positon while juggling, and also not taking one-two steps towards a dropped ball to pick it up while already bending down, but just really normally walking upright.

Basically, if one sits or drives a lot and doesn't usually need to walk a lot, AND-OR gets long runs a lot while juggling, not walking around a lot while practising, but rather mostly standing, then there's a great chance that they'd juggle more than they walk.

Maria - - Parent

Does walking while juggling count as both walking and juggling? (For example passing patterns where you are walking... I do those a lot.)

Does walking from the kitchen to the livingroom count, or only walking more than a few steps?

7b_wizard - - Parent

[see answer & distinction two posts above] .. I don't know what made me have that thought, but it struck me that I am actually juggling way more than I walk. Why "walk"? .. well, it's sooo genuinely normal, we think we do it always and forever and it's so omnipresent, it's part of our definition as upright walking humans. Yeah .. wrong! - we don't do it as much as we think .. we have cars, bikes, trams, planes, trains, busses; we have professions and desks where we sit; and for many people, jogging, walking, taking a walk, wandering is an activity that they (have to) take extra time for. Walking is not ``always there´´ as one might easily first think.

So, one juggler might indeed be juggling (notably) more time than doing what seems granted fro a member of the human upright walking species.

( It's a bit analogue to the insight that modern (over)civilized humans don't walk anymore as much as they used to and not walk as much anymore as what they were ``originally meant for´´, but have cars and sit a lot now, instead. Just that now for juggling, and if it's true for you. )

Guili - - Parent

if we take walking as an activity, not just moving yourself through the house, like maria said, then I definetively juggle a LOT more than i walk...

7b_wizard - - Parent

Any walking counts as "human upright walk", no matter where, while what (even while juggling). Just "time walked" versus "time juggled without walking". One-two steps don't count as really "walking upright" (and it's seconds only anyway), but time of indeed really (clearly) "walking while juggling" counts as +-0, and "walking through the house" is "walking" through the house and counts as such. - Anyway - if one's answer should depend on such distinctions and it's not clear, then please choose "3. Not sure." (unclear, not definitely or positively rather "yes", not definitely or with clear tendency towards rather "no")

Little Paul - - Parent

According to fatbit I walk more than 15k steps every day (which is around 10Km apparently)

There’s no way I juggle that much!

Sergei -

I want to hear about your first "juggling magic experience". I was just tossing up 2 balls with my right hand with no hope to catches them as at age 67 I never even tried to learng juggling. Suddenly I felt that both balls are safely back in my hand. I was really wonder feeling for me ))) Wand to know about YOUR first juggling "wonders"/

7b_wizard - - Parent

wonderful question!

I can not remember, it is around 40-45 years ago, i think. First thing that I remember is that I was juggling three tennisballs as cascade when the sports teacher was gone for a few minutes and unlocked the small room where the balls are.

Only years later did I come back to juggling and learned tricks and 5 balls.

There's so many different kinds of magic, of fascination, of simply fun:
when I have control,
- I can shift focus on for example one distinct balls' orbit and follow it through the pattern,
- I can gaze through the pattern into the distant and do with peripheral view only and not see single balls anymore,
- I can gaze near the crossing point of the flightcurves, or near the top of the pattern and watch the balls burble up all the time,
short: it's queer and fun to watch my own ongoing pattern when it seems like my hands are doing by themselves with no need to focus or concentrate, just keep on doing and I can watch it.

That was optical impressions. But when my technique got much better, it became ``mental´´ - I get sensations of ``flow´´, or just very fluent juggling, and the kick lies less in the optical impression but more in the feeling of the hands going on moving right and well.
It is then, when the juggling ``snaps in´´, when I do with snapped-in timing and the rhythm is fluent and the pattern just ``rolls´´, when hands and balls' flights are synchronized.

It was also fun to land my first bodythrows, .. clawing wasn't such a revelation, but getting my first single backcrosses with 3 balls felt great! Like stepping through a door leading outdoors that was closed, lighting up my spirit.

Another kind of magic is when I get another trick, another pattern with a more or less broken rhythm (for example juggler's tennis) or a so called siteswap ( for example: [click! --> 441 or 34530 <-- click!] ). - It is then like in music, a rhythm or a beat or a melody, and it can be funky or have a crescendo or it can be galopped.
When I first get such a pattern, get the right heights, the right rhythm, the right timing all well, it will ``click´´ in the brain :o) dope I tell you!

And still then, what I find greatest, is, when the juggling, a pattern, is not only snapped-in, or not only clicked, but also when it is - suddenly or after working hard on it - .. when it is easy with no effort, when I can at a given moment of full control relax and let loose, breathe out, settle down, and I have the sensation of letting loose and the pattern will not collapse, but go on, like when walking.

Sergei - - Parent

yes, many guys recommended me claws, I tried it today and have the feeling I can learn it in couple days and I am not sure it will add much to my juggling experience )) Thanks a lot for sharing with me. It gives me some directions where "tasty" juggling things are hidden ))

7b_wizard - - Parent

These tasty juggling things are highly individually different, you''l hardly find two jugglers with the same repertoire.
Some go for "numbers", many balls or clubs or rings, .. some collect all the tricks with few balls that they can get, .. some go into a lot of contact elements like rolling or stalling ( =parking them somewhere for a beat or two or three) the props on and around bodyparts, .. there's related object manipulation skills like diabolo, devilstick, .. other artistry to combine, like walking globes, unicycle, .. fire juggling looks spectacular, .. some specialize on a certain trick family or on their style, .. don't forget passing with one or many partners, juggling games, .. and many many more things.
It's a huge and vast field and everyone can find themselves doing what suits them and what they like.

I like to watch, listen, feel which kinds of throws offer themselves in a given moment and fulfill those intuitions, but I surely also reproduce or imitate a lot of what I encounter others doing.

7b_wizard - - Parent

another magic is that "aha"-effect when you (suddenly) get a new trick pretty easily that you thought was hard, that looked hard when you first saw someone (or that animated stickman) do it -and realize it's not so hard at all now. - then also instructing others, teaching and watching them have such moments when they think or say "Hey wow! I can do it!" with bright eyes is even shared magic then.

Sergei - - Parent

YES ! Yesterday I was teaching 3 b cascade in the restaurant to young man using winter gloves as props ))

7b_wizard - - Parent

obsession. passion. keep that!

7b_wizard - - Parent

.. and still another kind of magic / tasty crossed my mind while just practising: the prospect of what you think you can do longterm next!? every pattern or trick or basic skill that you get down opens up new worlds of possibilities .. what seemed completely impossible(!) before, or what never even crossed your mind, and what you didn't dare to think of and consider, all of a sudden gets within reach! it's awesome!

Daniel Simu - - Parent

So many magical experiences... Such as when I discovered that I could climb stairs while juggling 3 balls... Or when someone showed me the factory trick and how to break it down, and I realized that there was a lot possible with 3 balls. Or when I tried to run 3 balls in one hand in the classroom in high school and I felt like it wasn't that hard after all.. But also still now, like last week when I tried a new sequence of connected 5b 3up 360s and figured that I could get it without too much effort! There are so many magical moments :)

7b_wizard - - Parent

yeah, .. "up + pirouette" feel great! .. Sergei, you can try that with "1 ball up + 360° pirouette" or ".. + 180° half turn".

Sergei - - Parent

I guess I will abstain abrupt 360 turns for a while as falling and breaking legs at my age can cost a lot ))) I quit training Karate (I am 4 grade black belt) last 4 years in order not to have serious injuries. Nevertheless I think it will be great to flash 3 up and make 360 turn. Let it be my "Golden dream" for next couple years ))

7b_wizard - - Parent

not "abrupt", but throw very high (outdoors or in a gym or hall), and you can turn slowly half way round for the (1 up) 180°-ies.   ( But, well, I see, no legwork, no stilts, no walking globe, then, whatever you like or suits you best, then. )

Sergei - - Parent

Thanks a lot, I got the point. My wife is Ballet Instructor and I hope she will coach me these turns ))

7b_wizard - - Parent

@ all Edge users - so little participation on this wonderful topic? .. c'mon folks, wake up and share your magic moments!

7b_wizard - - Parent

.. I could fancy, also for example passing, showbizz, first video uploaded, surprising yourself, would provide for some worth posting, no?

Maria - - Parent

The original post asked for my first "juggling magic experience", and I don't remember that! It was too long ago... I do remember being really happy about keeping 3 balls going for a few catches though, so that must have been in the beginning.

I have had the "magic" feeling a few times though. Like when walking and passing, turning around and seeing an incoming club exactly where I expected it to be. Or just when a nice passing pattern works well.

Of course, most of the "fist time I got that trick" moments are really good, too. :)

7b_wizard - - Parent

Yah, good. (oh yeah, I somehow overread that "first" in o.p.) .. [..] exactly where I expected it, oh yes, very good! .. Good moments, thx 4 sharing!

I really need to get into passing better soon than late!

Do you remember what or a moment that made you change towards or decide for juggling with clubs mainly?  ( surely better for passing, but .. )  did it also feel more comfortable, suit you more when you tried first(lol) time?

Maria - - Parent

Well, I had just learned to juggle a 3 ball Cascade (without knowing the name of the pattern) when I decided to buy clubs. I didn't know any jugglers by then, had just learned by myself and had no idea what else to do with the balls. To be honest, at first I saw clubs mostly as a practice prop for torches, though I had seen a juggler doing cool tricks with clubs, too.

It certainly didn't feel comfortable trying to juggle clubs at first! Like I said, I didn't know any jugglers, I tried to learn at home standing over my bed (which is a bad idea for club juggling, teaches you all the wrong technique). I more or less gave up on juggling, just picked up the balls or clubs a few times a year, then not at all...

...until 10-15 years later, when I went to "Medieval week" and a few other events and saw the jesters. They had a fire show, they were juggling torches, and they were passing with them! That's when I decided that, all right, this time I'm actually going to learn this. I took out my old clubs from the cupboard, started practising twice a week (only for about 15-20 minutes), still by myself, couldn't find any other jugglers nearby. A few months later I visited my first juggling Convention, only over the day, but it was fun and I saw 3 passers doing Roundabout. I was like "oooh, that is cool, I want to do that!". (My juggling was still not good enough to join the beginner passing workshop, though.) I still didn't have jugglers where I lived, but I moved about half a year later, found a place to practise with someone who knew a little bit of club passing, went to another juggling Convention, where I met Staffan from my current juggling club (Fritidsjonglörerna), started practising with them and... Well, that was a long answer, but I think passing was the main reason that I choose to almost only juggle clubs. That and the "fact" that they look cooler than balls. ;)

7b_wizard - - Parent

I read: the spark came by the fire!? .. and by roundabout passing. .. Very nice story, very motivating / inciting too. thx 4 takin' the time!

You should do  t o r c h e s !!  :-O  :o)

Maria - - Parent

I have torches, and I have juggled them a little bit, but honestly... Not quite as fun as trying to do passing patterns that are just a little bit too difficult, with regular clubs. There is a video on Facebook where I am passing torches with two of my friends, though. Happy to have done it, will probably do it again, but it's not important any more. :)

Sergei - - Parent

Can I borrow your "tasty" juggling experience ? )) I expect that juggling while walking can boost serotonin in my brains )))

Maria - - Parent

Juggling while Walking (and turning around) is good for many fun passing patterns, I recommend it!

pumpkineater23 - - Parent

After my first few months of juggling I dropped something (a Cherry Bakewell I think) whilst fumbling around in a high cupboard. The catch was perfect and came out of nowhere. It really surprised me.. it felt super-human, like that scene in The Fly when he catches the fly. I'm actually quite good at catching flies too with my juggling-enhanced lightning reflexes. Mating flies are the best. They're slower when they're mating and opening a hand to release two flies really blows people's minds!

Stephen Meschke - - Parent

Juggling 7 balls for more than 100 catches feels pretty magical. I try to do that every day if I can.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Agreed (for 50-70 catches in my case, and for if I even get these) .. feels unreal when it ``rolls all by itself´´.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Not sure about my first magical moment. I can tell you the first trick I did that I never thought I'd be able to do was 97531. Hitting that for the first time made me very happy!

There have been a few more recently. Mostly little steps toward fully inverted sprung cascade, because I had some doubt that I'd ever be able to do it.

Guili - - Parent

hello sergei!
I wanted to tell you, not about my first magical experience (i've been juggling on-and-off for almost 20 years now!) but about my last one.
yesterday i was practicing for 7 balls (my biggest focus these days). I've been trying it for a few years, but never with these days' stubborness :) . so, yesterday i got to catch the first 5 throws, not much ok, but the trajectory of those balls was so nice, almost perfect... they just landed on my hands...
we all now moments like this last only a few seconds... but when you train for 7b... you really treasure those seconds... since all the rest of the time you will be crawling to retrieve the balls... jajja

Joerg - - Parent

I have learned 3 ball cascade almost 30 years ago and do not remember any magical moment from that time. Finally in 2012 i wanted to learn more and came across a web site called 'kingscascade' with a lot of three ball tricks. I also bought the book 'The Encyclopedia of Ball Juggling' of Chrlie Dancey and wanted to teach myself Mill's Mess. Charlie had a very motivating way to describe tricks: 'The Mill's Mess is the crème de la crème of the three-ball juggling patterns. A tongue-twister of triple trickery! Anti-gravitational hand jive in the key of three balls!'.
A magical moment was when i finally could manage Mill's Mess and directly afterwards i joined a juggling club.

The second magical moment was a year later when I have learned the 5 ball cascade and it feels no longer hard. To cite Charley once more: 'The Five Ball Cascade' is the purest five pall pattern there is. It is a landmark in the juggling carrer of anyone who achieves it, the beginning (and for many the end) of Numbers Juggling. Whenever you see a Five Ball Cascade you can be sure of one thing - that juggler has been practicing a lot'.

I hope for some more moments when 7 ball cascade and 3 ball inverted box feel easy.

Joerg - - Parent

Thanks for the service and taking me 5 years back. I remember that i have learned Mills Mess by the tip: Learn windmill in both directions and then continously change directoin after one round. This does not directly end up in Mills Mess but to something very similar.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Yw, .. jus' wanted to remind it's been archived. - Depending on at which moment, with which throw you start the sidechange it would become Flo's Mess instead Mills Mess; (but there's of course endless more variations for confusion).

Joerg - - Parent

I remember another 'magical' moment: The first time when i can look through a juggling pattern and not focusing at one position. I remember this moment when passing 6 clubs and i could look into the eyes of my partner.

Mike Moore -

Teaching passing to good solo jugglers

Had fun last night teaching passing to a club member who had a reasonable 5b cascade, some 6b, and a dash of 7b under his belt. Figured I'd play to his strengths and start with 7b ultimates (him passing crosses, of course). That went well, so we went to 9b ultimates, and eked out a qualify!

On a related note: the beginning of our club's hardcore recruitment and retention efforts have begun, and yielded fantastic results so far. Looking forward to seeing how this plays out in the next few months.

Joerg - - Parent

How does this recruitment look like? We would also like to have more permanent members in our University juggling club. Do you already use the sheet of juggling achivements?

Mike Moore - - Parent

Yes, I made a sheet of juggling achievements, and I'll share two versions here:

This one, which I think is a slightly better achievement ladder:

And this one, which is better for recruitment:

Another thing that's been working well is having a blanket with props on it and a sign saying, "Want to learn? Take three and come talk to us!". We're hoping to further decrease the barrier to entry by having designated beginner-teachers who wear sashes.

Last night at our AGM, we made an executive position called Recruitment and Retention, for which I will be the pioneering officer. Looking forward to seeing what I can do.

Joerg - - Parent

Thanks for sharing.

I have already seen the first sheet on reddit. Now, you have made some modifications and included multiplex and performing. That sounds good ;-) Carry (one-beat factory) was removed and inverted box is on grade 9. For me the inverted boy is still a challenge although I can do N-box, shuffle, ...

The second one seems to be a good start for newcomers. Including passing is also nice.

Offering different props is also good. In our club for instance nearly no one juggles rings.

At our university courses start typically in October and April. On average there are about 10 newcomers. Some of them just want do try something new and some of them could already juggle. Most of the newcomers did not continue longer than half a year. After half a year they can juggle 3 balls and can do a few tricks (grade 4 in your beginer sheet). Those who stay longer can typically juggle 4-5 balls, 3-4 clubs, and pass 6 clubs (about grade 7 in advanced sheet).

'Pioneering officer' sounds good. Would like to hear more about your recruitment experience in the future.

Little Paul - - Parent

Back when I was running a university club (around 20 years ago) we found that we had better retention when we emphasised the social aspects of the club.

The weekly juggling meetings were just the start - we always finished the meetings by going to the pub, organised pizza nights. When the weather was nice, extra juggling meetings outside, if there was a circus in town we organised a group booking etc.

We took a group minibus to every juggling convention we could find, and organised trips to visit other juggling clubs in nearby cities.

"Juggling for the sake of juggling" can easily become a solo pursuit, and as humans are fundamentally a social animal, that will only hold the attention of some people for longer than a few weeks... but if you can include the "person" as well as the "skill" you'll find a larger group of people stick around.

Mike Moore - - Parent

I'd like to build in more social aspects to the club but am struggling with it a bit. One social thing we do well is fests: we had about 10 people make the >10 hour drive to Turbofest this year!

For gettogethers, we'd probably have to put them on weekends because our practices go from 6-~8:30 pm. Many people find it hard to get there earlier and (by my eye) tend to want to leave and get last-minute assignments done when it ends. An organized pizza night sounds fun, I'll have to jump through some paperwork hoops but I think it'd be worth it.

Little Paul - - Parent

6pm - 8:30 pm is a pretty normal timeframe for weekday evening juggling clubs.

We always used to go straight from the practice session to the nearest bar, anyone who had a last minute assignment could duck out at that point and go do their homework, but there would usually be a few who would stick around for an hour or two. I know a lot of clubs in the UK run on this model, meet, juggle, eat/drink/chat.

All you need to do is say "next week, I'm thinking of going to the bar/cafe/burger joint for a drink after the session. Anyone who wants to come is welcome!" and then follow through on it. If you can manage to do that a few weeks in a row, those who want to hang around can do so.

I guess we were in a pretty lucky position being in Birmingham (UK) in the late 1990s, there were 3 other juggling clubs in the same city and another 3 or 4 within about a 40min drive. We used to pile as many people as we could fit into a car and go visit other clubs nearby. On a couple of occasions we planned it a bit more thoroughly and took a minibus.

In one of it's more popular periods, the University of Bristol juggling society met on a Sunday afternoon, finished around 7pm and then decamped to an open mic comedy night in a bar that was about 15 minutes walk away. We'd hang around there drinking, chatting, laughing at the comedians. It wasn't unusual to get 20 of us along to the comedy. Then a comedy night opened up at another venue on a Tuesday evening and we started going to that as well (even though there was no juggling on a Tuesday)

It's things like that which can bring a group of people together and help them make friends, they'll keep coming back for those friendships even if they're struggling to make progress with the juggling.

The Bristol Uni Society also used to organise a juggling convention to take place early in the second term - so the first term was spent getting people interested in juggling, involving them socially, and getting them involved in organising the juggling convention. By the time the second term came around, they were in deep and couldn't escape ;)

Joerg - - Parent

Attending together a convention is indeed a social aspect. We did this for the EJC in Almere in 2016.
A 10 hour drive is really long. Looking at the event page here, I could reach in principal in 2018 more than 20 conventions in less than 10 hours from my hometown. Unfortunately, two of the yearly small conventions nearby (<30 km) took place last year for the last time.

Another social aspect is practicing together for a performance. From time to time we have this opportunity at some events in the university.

Mike Moore - - Parent

The 10 hour thing was me bragging about how dedicated these people are! Didn't mean to imply that it was the nearest fest or anything.

The closest fests for us are:
Guelph fest - 0 min away =D
Waterloo fest - ~40 min away
RIT - ~3.5 hours
Limestone - ~4 hours
Montreal - ~ 7 hours
And then there are a bunch of ~7 in assorted places in the States.

We certainly don't have half of the fest density as many places in Europe, but as far as Canada goes, we're almost ideally located!

Mike Moore - - Parent

Ah, and we definitely do performances. Which reminds me, I've got to get audio to someone...

Mike Moore -


The IJA is running a (simplifying pretty heavily here) single round of global JUGGLE. Two parts: the first to set tricks/patterns jugglers think others may not be able to do, and the second for everyone to try to do those tricks/patterns. For this round, only toss juggling with balls is allowed (no endurances). Full rules here:

Luke made the very interesting prediction that every trick/pattern will be replicated by at least one other juggler. I'm very interested in this event, and to see if he's right! I'm assuming that there will be about a month allowed to try to replicate others' tricks, but I don't think that's been announced.

Two questions I'm curious about:
Do you think Luke's prediction will hold? If not, which patterns (and by whom) do you think will stand?
Do you like this event?

Daniel Simu - - Parent

I would love to see more juggling challenges, so thank you David for organizing this one!
I've suggested a couple to juggleshare, and since he seems to have disappeared I might run some myself at some point.

This particular challenge, I'm not sure about yet. For one, I might not want to encourage other jugglers to try out my coolest hardest most original tricks. Secondly I think that the incentive to try and beat a trick is relatively low. I might even try a trick that I like, manage to do it, but there is little to gain except for some exposure to then record it on camera. I don't mean that there should be better prizes or something like that, I believe that submitting to a challenge should be inherently interesting. But sure, if people feel like there is a big honor in submitting, it will work!

I do hope that there will be many participants, and I do hope this event sparks of more challenges in the future.
Here is the list of challenges I suggested earlier, anyone is free to take from these directly or as inspiration of course!

Mike Moore - - Parent

"Secondly I think that the incentive to try and beat a trick is relatively low."

While true, if there are any entries near my bailiwick, I'm going after them!

Out of my repertoire of patterns that I feel would be hard to replicate...I feel like they're all poking Haavard into participating. I haven't thought of any that I don't think he could do pretty quickly.

peterbone - - Parent

Alex Barron could just flash 13 balls (not too difficult for him) and no-one else would replicate it. There are others who can do things that no-one else is close to (long runs of 7 balls backcrosses for example). The question is if any of those people will enter.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Considering endurances are off limits, what are some other tricks/patterns you think are unique to certain jugglers?

peterbone - - Parent

I had forgotten that endurance is off limits. However, if Ty Tojo did something like a 7 up from backcrosses that would probably do it. Another off the top of my head would be one of Ofek's crazy multi pirouettes with 7 balls. Another possible way to go about this challenge would be to memorise and juggle a long prime siteswap for one cycle, as probably no-one else would bother to try.

Brook Roberts - - Parent

Submitted. In the process, twice I landed my trick without the camera working (once I didn't start it properly by mistake, and once it ran out of memory 30 seconds before I landed it), and in submitting I discovered to my shame that what I thought was an 8 turned out to be a 7 :/ Interested to see if there are any interesting tricks submitted!

Mike Moore - - Parent

Oo, I'm excited to see what you've done!

I was all psyched to get 32 catches of my trick (four rounds)...then I got sick. 16 catches it is (though I got one take of 24 catches).

Disappointed because I think there's a real plateau after 16 catches that I'd like people to struggle with!

lukeburrage - - Parent

"Luke made the very interesting prediction that every trick/pattern will be replicated by at least one other juggler. I'm very interested in this event, and to see if he's right!"

The reason I think all these tricks will be replicated is that I have history in copying other people's tricks. Check out this project:

There were a few tricks that defeated me, a few that I only ever intended to joke-copy, and a few where I used video editing tricks. But otherwise I managed to copy many, many tricks which I presumed would be beyond me. For example, Alex Barron doing 999333 with the second 3 behind the head? I'd never tried anything like that before! And I got it after about 30 minutes trying. Brook and I got the 8 club double pirouette in one juggling session, even though I'd never done that kind of thing while passing. Loads of stuff I tried for the first time... and usually got what I wanted. On top of that I had to act like the jugglers too.

And I'm not even that good of a juggler compared to many other jugglers who could attempt to copy the tricks of others.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Oh, I'm very aware of this project, it is one of my favourite juggling projects ever done! The suspense, the execution...that was a masterpiece of top 40.

I wonder if people are going to pull out things deeper in their niches for this competition than they usually do. That's what I tried to do for it, anyway. I'm excited to see what was submitted, and who can replicate what.

Cedric Lackpot -

What ever happened to ... ?

So, I found myself thinking about Jouni Temonen, a fabulous juggler from Finland who I met maybe a dozen or so years ago, and he's one of those really great jugglers who seems to have dropped completely off the radar. And I started wondering whether it's because he's doing better, more professional things, or perhaps he's got a proper job/life/baby or whatever and doesn't really inhabit the juggling world so much any more.

And then that got me thinking about Joost Dessing, and wondering what on earth he's up to now. And the more you think about it, the more gifted talents you will remember that seem to have disappeared off the scene for one reason or another.

So who do you recall, who was infuriatingly talented but has since moved on with their lives?

Mike Moore - - Parent

Maybe Michael Falkov. One of the best 3b jugglers ever (IMO, top 3, arguably the very top), but is super off-grid. Not sure if he's juggled in the last ~2 years.

Orinoco - - Parent

Reuben Cohn-Gordon, Arron Gregg & Anthony Gatto (obviously!) are the names who immediately spring to my mind.

Similarly, is it my imagination or is the 'lifetime' of a juggler getting shorter? For example I feel that the more recent BYJotY competitors have not remained as visible in the scene as the earlier competitors (Norbi, Tiff, Tom Derrick, Arron Sparks, Jon Udry, Matt Pang etc.). Has the increased average skill level & easier access to the 'next big thing' made staying in the community's consciousness harder? Has the top level of juggling reached the point where physical limits are being hit & injury is forcing people out sooner?

Mike Moore - - Parent

Oof, I definitely miss Reuben Cohn-Gordon. I had a brief chat with him May 2014 when I was getting into squeeze catches. At that point he implied that he was still juggling some. Maybe there's hope.

It's an interesting point about youngins not staying on the scene as long these days. I got curious about IJA juniors winners...and I wish I knew if more of them still juggled. Below are some of the winners and whether or not they still juggle (to my knowledge)

Komei Aoki - Yes
Takashi Kikyo - Yes

Tony Pezzo - YES
Billy Watson - ?

Nate Martin - ?
Teruki Okamoto - I think so

Ben Hestness - ?

David Ferman - ?
Jack Levy - ?

Noah Malone - Yes
David Ferman - ?
Lauge Benjaminsen - Yes

David Ferman - ?
Jack Denger - ? (stopped making videos)
Patrick Fraser - Pretty much stopped

Kellin Quinn - YES
Jack Denger - ?
Ashley Ellis - ?

Ashley Ellis - ?

It's Him - - Parent

It seems to me that the number of people entering BYJOTY has reduced and that the average skill level is also less. Whether this is because the people attending BJC are getting older (and hence less youngsters are around to compete) or the general skill level is higher and so the good youngsters don't stand out so much or some other reason I couldn't say. Still at least a few of the recent winners are still very much on the scene and in the community consciousness. It was only about 4 years ago that Arthur Hyam won.


peterbone - - Parent

As well as other things in life getting in the way, one thing I've noticed based mainly on myself and is that as you get older you tend to seek praise from others less. This is why we make juggling videos of ourselves. As I get older I'm juggling just as much but making far fewer videos. People therefore think I've stopped juggling. I was recently asked to film a section for a video about people who've stopped juggling!

Dee - - Parent

What Joost is up to is very easy to find [he is based in Queen's in Belfast]. His research seems to have veered towards football rather than juggling (probably related to sources of funding).

Monte - - Parent

I miss Brian, nobody does a 5 cheese showers like he did.

Little Paul - - Parent

You’ve just reminded me of “Charlie Cheese and the wheel of cheese!”

It’s cheeky as cheese Charlie!

Orinoco -

You can now include links to instagram posts in the records section.

We also have a new +ringonankle modifier for Norbi Gatto style 'with a ring spinning on the ankle' type tricks.

That is all.


Orinoco - - Parent

That should've been Norbi/Gatto. I'm pretty sure Norbi has not married into Nick's family.

Although I can't say that with complete certainty.

Mike Moore - - Parent

He wasn't at Turbo this year. Probably honeymooning.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

If only there was an "edit your post" feature ;)

Cedric Lackpot - - Parent

There is. In Reddit, Facebook, Instagram, blogs, forums, Uncle Tom Cobbleigh and all ...

Norbi - - Parent

Now just to add +ringonankle to where she belongs

CameronFord -

So it’s the start of 2018 – Happy New Year jugglers!

The start of a new year is always a time to reflect on your life and where you want it to go… or to just completely ignore that and think about juggling, which is what I’ve opted to do:

So I’ve had lots of interesting conversations about how people practice juggling, when they started and how quickly they learnt certain tricks. One topic which often comes up is how Anthony Gatto practices. Obvious he’s pretty decent at juggling, so must have been doing something right when he practiced. I decided to try and emulate his practice.

DISCLAIMER: I think Anthony Gatto has a strong claim to the title of ‘best juggler of all time’ and I in no way think I will ever be anywhere near as good as him. I respect his ability immensely and if I say anything like ‘obviously he’s pretty decent at juggling’ like in the line above, I’m deliberately understating things for comic effect. Hopefully this explanation didn’t spoil that effect too much, but I would hate people to think that I don’t respect his ability or that I’m trying to compare myself to him in any way. I just want to get better at juggling, and tell a few jokes. I also don’t think I’m a particularly good solo juggler either, so any statements I make to the contrary are also jokes.

After reading and watching some of I think these are the key things I’ve learnt about how he practices:

1) Warm up with some gentle balance exercises.
2) Practice for one hour, but every day!
3) Work on each trick for no more than 2-3 minutes, take regular breaks.
4) Have a list of about 20 tricks you are working on, if you aren’t enjoying one, swap it out for another one.

I think the idea of this is you make slow progress on lots of tricks at once, and if you do this every day for 20 years you end up being the best juggler of all time or something. Sounds like a plan- anyone want to book 43 year old Cameron for a performance, he’s going to be awesome? (See disclaimer if you think I’m being arrogant…)

This is very different to how I practice. Sometimes I’m super motivated about one trick and work on just that for a whole session, sometimes I rattle through tricks more quickly. Sometimes I have seen someone do something at a convention which I want to try. Sometimes I have a new idea and want to try and come up with some tricks of my own. Sometimes I’m driving to Austria and don’t practice for a day. The point is, it varies- I don’t have a systematic juggling practice routine. I’ve got my juggling to a level I am proud of but I’m not the best of all time like Anthony… probably only like the 7th best of all time or something (see disclaimer).

I wonder how much better I would get if I started practicing like Anthony? That’s what I plan to find out over the next month or so, maybe with a few days off when I’m skiing/moving to Germany. Who knows, I’ll do it when I can though (I know this already doesn’t really fit with what he does given he did it every day but you know I’m doing my best…).
Right, so I’ll warm up with some balance stuff, cycle through tricks really quickly (I think I’ll have a timer running to keep me disciplined) now all I need is a list of 20 or so tricks:

Balance warm up:
Turn round, kneel down, stand up sit down stand up, clap behind balance, do Macarena etc with club in both nose, chin and forehead balance (2 minutes)
3 balls, 441, 4ball sync and async, 5 balls all with balance. Maybe flash 6. (5 minutes)
Ok, now I’m warm ish, maybe mills is also a good warm up for the arm? I want to work on mills anyways so let’s put some of that in:
3 balls, 441, 531 (2 minutes)
4 balls, run, then 531 throwing 5 as under arm and as over arm. Kick up 3 to 4 (3-4 minutes)
5 balls, go for runs, try kick up 4 to 5 (3-4) minutes
I really want to get 5 ball mills looking nice it’s such a cool trick, seems weird only working on it 3-4 minutes but hey, let’s give it a go.
3 balls, 3 ups including linked 3 ups and 2 stage 720s (3-4 minutes)
4 balls, 4 ups out of both hands, 2 stage 720 out of sync? (3-4 minutes)
5 balls, 3 ups starting out of both hands, try and get 2 linked (3 minutes)
5 balls, try and land a 5 up out of both hands (3 minutes)
5 balls, 3 ups out of (6x,4)* ? (3 minutes)
I wonder if I’ll find the pirouette section tiring? Maybe I’ll switch this to being at the end after I try it tomorrow. What am I on now? 33 minutes or so, wow, that’s half my practice gone! Ok better get on with it:
5 ball siteswaps:
744 (1 minute)
645 (1 minute)
633 (1 minute)
94444 (1 minute)
97531 (2 minutes)
(8x,4)(4,4) out of (6x,4)* (2 minutes)
753 (1 minute)
Man that’s another 11 minutes gone, how did Anthony make this work? All I’ve done is balls. Crazy he was efficient enough using this practice to get at least as good as I am at all three props, if not better… (disclaimer).
6 ball practice:
3 in one hand, each way (1 minute)
One handed siteswaps with 3 balls like 432 and 42 each hand (2 minutes)
66661 (1 minute)
Run 6 async (2 minutes)
Run 6 sync (2 minutes)
Transition between sync and async (2 minutes)
Kick up 5 to 6 (1 minute)
Man I’m running out of time fast:
7 balls:
5 ball warm up, continuous 3 ups without spinning. 771. (2 minutes)
Try and get some runs of 7 balls (3 minutes)
It seems mad only trying 7 balls for that short an amount of time- I’m used to practicing it in half an hour stretches. I wonder if this will really help me improve?
Half showers:
5 ball half shower, throwing the odd high throw as a back cross (2 minutes)
6 ball half shower (2 minutes)

Man, that’s over an hour! This is insane, I have some other 3 ball tricks which I would love to get solid for an act in the future, I haven’t done any contortionist stuff, I haven’t practiced any of my shower tricks. There’s so many more ball tricks I can think of I want to work on and just as many club and ring tricks… I guess I’ll have to gradually change what is in my practice over the next 20 years so that I master clubs and rings too. Oh and head bounce. Also might take up cigar boxes. Should probably do some passing at some point too… hmmm.

I’m planning on trying this tomorrow after I’ve done some tutoring, if anyone has any feedback/suggestions of things to add or take out I would love to hear it.

I’ll post an update with how I found the practice tomorrow, and maybe again after 5 days or a week or something. Will definitely post again in 20 years when I’m the best of all time (disclaimer). Hopefully if you've read this far that last disclaimer was unnecessary. Bye x

Daniel Simu - - Parent

I always wonder how much this differs from his practice when he started out. This routine of his was perhaps built more to help him maintain the level he had, it could be different to the training he did when he was actively learning new skills!

CameronFord - - Parent

So if you follow the link from the post ( it describes how he tried juggling 4 clubs for the first time. Very different from my experience of learning 4 clubs- I remember putting in lots of hours and ending up with fairly battered forearms. It seems crazy to me that anyone can learn new tricks by spending such a short amount of time on them but I guess the key is doing it every single day. I guess the fact it seems crazy is why I want to try it for myself and see if it works for me :)
Obviously I can't know for certain but as far as I can tell this really is how he learnt new tricks as well as just maintaining ones he could do already.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Oof, different from my experience too. I spent a whole summer on 4 clubs..

Scott Seltzer - - Parent the last question:

eJuggle: How has your practice style changed over the years?

Gatto: It has not altered too much. I follow the same structure as I used when I was ten. What I do now more than ever is listen to my body and do not force things to happen.

CameronFord - - Parent

Day 1 log now posted.

el_grimley - - Parent

I used an app called "action timer" for when I had to do a bunch of physio. Basically put in the length of time for each activity, the title and hit the go button. It will tell you what to do when (including rests). If you plan to do the same thing week in week out it might be a good way of getting consistency. I'm sure there are a whole bunch of similar apps which might fit your need if you don't like that one.

Stephen Meschke - - Parent

I have been using an app I created to structure my juggling training and collect juggling data. The Android app is called Routine Builder. It is available free in the Play store, and by email. Check out my training logs to see what the app can do.

peterbone - - Parent

Lets not forget that he also had a coach. Someone who watches closely from a different perspective and gives good feedback is invaluable. It is perhaps what allowed him to get so much out of such short sessions. The question is if the same practice structure is optimal for a juggler without a coach.

CameronFord - - Parent

Very true, I guess what I'm really testing is whether this 2-3 minutes per trick style of practice works better for me than my normal fewer tricks for a longer amount of time style. It's definitely different from what he did in a number of ways.

Mike Moore - - Parent

A while ago I was working on consistency of patterns. I made a recording of myself saying the name of a pattern I wanted to work on, then put in silence so the total track length was 30 seconds. I think I had something like 6 different tricks, so I duplicated each track 9 times to give me a total of a half hour of audio. I made this a playlist, hit shuffle, and BAM! I practiced in a very focused way for 30 minutes[1].

I did make a lot of progress during this time, but probably similar progress to when I practiced for the same amount of time by myself without such a rigid structure. Hard to tell.

[1] - For if you're having trouble understanding what I'm talking about, the session would sound like this:
"Around the head shower, right hand" [~30 seconds of silence]
"Blind behind the head" [~30 seconds of silence]
etc. etc. for 30 minutes.

Joerg - - Parent

As far as I understand your routine is a random circuit training, because you 'hit shuffle'.
I think that most people train in a linear way, one trick after another for a certain amount of time in a training session. I like the idea of a circuit training and for some tricks I have made good experience with something like A-B-C-D-A-B-C-D ... or A-B-C-D-B-C-E ... after a warmup and with short breaks in between. The letters are representing different tricks. At the end of a session I have repeated some tricks 2 or 3 times. 2-10 minutes per trick works well for me.

CameronFord - - Parent

I really like both these ideas, maybe I should switch up the order I do my tricks in rather than always sticking to the same order. Revisiting them in the same session is also an interesting idea... thanks for your ideas :)

Mike Moore -

A couple videos and a clip

I'm never sure whether I should post my juggling videos here, but this one seems like it's high enough energy to give people a laugh:

I've also put out a Youtube video this and last month:
The better one:
The boring one: (but still worth making, in my opinion)

Time to get them up on!

Cedric Lackpot -

A glossary of juggling terminology - does such a thing exist?

In this subthread over on Reddit someone has asked for a glossary of modern juggling, and to my surprise I realised that I'm not sure such a thing exists, not an authoritative one anyway. Can any Edgizens prove me wrong please? Or suggest some good places for a curious Redditor to start looking? David Cain do you perhaps have some suggestions?

peterbone - - Parent

I think it was our God Emperor who created this one. Seems quite thorough.

Dee - - Parent

Although I would question "Backdrop"; to me that is what is behind you - in terms of filming or performing (so, do your props contrast sufficiently with the backdrop or do they blend in?) [I would definitely include that as an alternative meaning]

Otherwise, its a pretty good start on a juggling glossary, it maybe requiring a bit of updating in terms of references to people (perhaps, to make it a bit more timeless, I would omit living people from the glossary)

Orinoco - - Parent

Yeah, I couldn't find anything comprehensive when I looked either, which was what prompted me to compile that page.

It's been a while since I've added anything to that page, I think the last addition was buugeng.

I have added the extra definition for backdrop. I've also removed most of the living jugglers from view. I've left in those who I feel are more famous for a contribution they have made to juggling culture rather than for who they are.

New suggestions are always welcome. Any glaring ommissions from the past few years that I should include?

Mike Moore - - Parent

Box and an inverted modifier!

peterbone - - Parent

Squeeze catch

Orinoco - - Parent

Both terms added, & inverse too which is related. Suggestions for less clunkily worded definitions also welcome!

lukeburrage - - Parent

"Combat: US term for Gladiators" should be "Gladiators: the British term for combat".

Orinoco - - Parent

Yeah, I suppose you are right, it does seem to be a purely British term now. I wonder when that changed? I clearly remember it being announced as gladiators during the games at the EJC in 2002.

& is it a 3 club specific thing? I don't think I've ever heard the term 'unicycle combat' for example.

lukeburrage - - Parent

Gladiators is more of a generic term for "the last person doing this prop/skill with contact between participants allowed" so unicycle gladiators is usually still a thing. Also hoop gladiators or ball-on-head gladiators.

Combat is for three clubs and three balls.

charlieh - - Parent

I think it changed when too many people started using the wrong word.

The Void - - Parent

*spills coffee laughing*

7b_wizard -

Did you ever - as far as you're aware, of course - dream that you toss*-juggle?

  1. Yes. Often or sometimes and with clear memory of it.
  2. Yes, often or sometimes, but memory is dim or I forget soon or right after after waking up.
  3. Yes, once or twice. Clearly.
  4. Yes, once or twice. Dimly.

  5. Somewhat \ Maybe:
  6. Not really - only single throws and catches. Or only throws to drops. Or only slightly very shortly losing physical contact to the prop before catching it again rightaway.
  7. I think so, but I'm not sure 'cos the memory of it is dim and nebulous or mixed up.

  8. No \ Rather not:
  9. I dream of conventions or of meetings or of folks or of being in a gym or of any juggling setup or of being onstage or of having an audience or of having my props with me and in reach and getting ready, but astonishingly never do or can't manage to actually really toss and really juggle one single throw.
  10. Could have been possible, can't exclude, might have, but any corresponding memory is too dim and nebulous to really tell. Rather not.
  11. Definitely, not that I know. No memory of the kind. Nowhere near.

  12. [ other ]

*"toss" - or fly and catch a diabolo, or run a devilstick, or foot- or knee-juggle a soccer ball, headbounces, or also scarve-juggling, .. anything where you lose physical contact to your prop. And catching, or at least the intention to catch, should be included. - So, I'd like contact-juggling, contact-staff, spinning, twirling, balancing and alike to be excluded.

This is a competition thread which ran from 19th Nov 2017 to 26th Nov 2017. View results.

7b_wizard - - Parent

I'm 7. Would love to improve over night, though. Also forgot to include the choice "Constantly, it's unnerving, I wake up from it everytime I drop." lol

I can - not while dreaming, but when awake - visualize throws (and then upto where they fly until I do the next throw to focus on, which is about to their apex), but then don't know where the balls are for catching (they sort of fade or vanish in a still life from where I last pictured them), .. so, when visualizing more rounds after launch, I have to take the catches for granted (and from seeing balls at launch before my mind's eye, I go over to instead feeling my handmovement + thrust + aiming or so). [ #dream #visualize ]

Scott Seltzer - - Parent

I think I've only ever dreamt of juggling once. I dream of juggling conventions fairly often. There frequently isn't any juggling in the juggling convention dreams, but I know I'm at a juggling convention. I'll give myself a 7.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Okay. Sounds more like "maybe, rather yes" to me(?). Then maybe 3. or 4, (both definite "yes"), if you're sure, you did, or 6. if you're you're not all sure, but positively think you did, would fit better? - 7. was really more meant as an "almost, but definitely not" .. everything is ready and setup to juggle, but you don't or can't or don't know how (the emphasis is not on the surroundings-story, but just to elude on "nearly could and should've but it didn't happen"). Actually, I meant the poll to find out how many are even able to juggle while dreaming. (But, hey, whatever you think! I'm happy about everyone who finds a choice that fits him.)

7b_wizard - - Parent

It's not all clear: does "you think" in "I think I've only ever dreamt of juggling once." refer to "dreamt of juggling" or to "ever only once"? Do or do you not have a memory of indeed yourself juggling?

Scott Seltzer - - Parent

I've definitely dreamt about juggling conventions. I may have dreamt about actual juggling. I don't usually remember my dreams well nor conversations about them. I slightly remember discussing having a juggling dream that wasn't the usual so I think I may have been juggling in it. Or perhaps I actually saw juggling (as the convention dreams don't usually (or ever?) have juggling in them. It's all a bit hazy for sure. I'm a definite 7 and maybe a 4 but I won't commit to that.

Maria - - Parent

I have dreamt I was passing clubs at least twice. I don't remember details (like what pattern or passing partners) but I think I remembered a bit more right after I woke up. I believe I woke up in the middle of the pattern, not after dropping. Good dreams. :)

I'll put that as a 4.

Have definitely dreamt of juggling conventions a few times, too. At least more times than about actual juggling... As far as I can remember, of course.

Maria - - Parent

...and shortly after I wrote that answer I slept and dreamed about working out new take-out passing patterns (on paper and by walking through the moves) together with another passer that I know from conventions. I know who the other juggler was but not what pattern we were working on. No actual juggling in that dream, though.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Double yes:
First without effort, and second when I was learning to lucid dream.

(I don't bother with lucid dreaming anymore)

7b_wizard - - Parent

Awesome. Can you still recall that ´´film´´, can you remember the pattern(s) and if you juggled same that you juggle when you really juggle (awake) or better and harder pattern(s), did it feel like real juggling with you controlling, acting & reacting, or did it somehow ´´hover´´, go all by itself, with you being able to watch like your own audience, was it °-.,~°happy°~.,.-°, did you ´´upgrade´´ first step to superhuman juggler, did it impact on your real juggling or did it rather seem as a fulfilment of your real juggling, a confirmation, a validation, a corroboration burnt by and into subconsciousness as affirmation?

Mike Moore - - Parent

The first time I dreamt about juggling was the most memorable. Myself and many friends were lined up to enter jail cells (for some unknown reason, but we were all resigned to it). I was among the first group locked away, but at the time (when awake), I'd often vaguely fantasized about going to jail and juggling all day, every day. I juggled a 3b cascade while sitting on some riser (a crate?). I dropped, the ball went off my foot and rolled out of the cell to a yet-to-be restrained friend of mine. They shot me such a nasty look that it woke me up.

When I was practicing lucid dreaming, I dreamt of practicing 7b cascade (probably half a dozen times or so). I didn't find that it helped, and found that I woke less rested than usual when this happened, so I stopped. Maaaybe this helped me "feel" what it was like to run it, but I doubt it had any real benefit. I was able to slow things down, see things from a third party point of view, etc.

7b_wizard - - Parent

fantasized about going to jail and juggling all day, every day.

I - when awake - sometimes have that martial arts movie-picture ("The snake in the shadow of the Eagle" or sth) of Jackie Chan training (barehanded) in a desert in my mind's eye, or that guy with his nunchucks-like three-parts-staff practising.

Nice story!

Sobers me up a bit that it shouldn't have any practise effect as I imagined. I'd still do it, though :o) (°gee° slomo, zoom at will, third party view - sounds sooo cool!)

Jan Poolen - - Parent

Yes, fun question. I remember it vividly.
First time I dreamed of flashing 7 clubs under the low ceilling at the place where I used to take breaks while juggling at the squash courts.
Second time I dreamed doing exactly 50 catches of 9 balls and being really content about my achievment(maybe one day I will really do it, and be satisfied in real life )
Third time, I did 5 connected db97531's with balls while sitting down on a chair.
Sweet dreams

7b_wizard - - Parent

So cool! Amazing. Did you also feel the juggling in your hands or just rather like watched yourself do it?

Marvin - - Parent

This competition has now ended with 11 votes cast. The results are:

  1.   Yes. Often or sometimes and with clear memory of it. (2 votes)
  2.   Yes, often or sometimes, but memory is dim or I forget soon or right after after waking up. (0 votes)
  3.   Yes, once or twice. Clearly. (2 votes)
  4.   Yes, once or twice. Dimly. (1 vote)
  5.   Not really - only single throws and catches. Or only throws to drops. Or only slightly very shortly losing physical contact to the prop before catching it again rightaway. (1 vote)
  6.   I think so, but I'm not sure 'cos the memory of it is dim and nebulous or mixed up. (1 vote)
  7.   I dream of conventions or of meetings or of folks or of being in a gym or of any juggling setup or of being onstage or of having an audience or of having my props with me and in reach and getting ready, but astonishingly never do or can't manage to actually really toss and really juggle one single throw. (1 vote)
  8.   Could have been possible, can't exclude, might have, but any corresponding memory is too dim and nebulous to really tell. Rather not. (0 votes)
  9.   Definitely, not that I know. No memory of the kind. Nowhere near. (3 votes)
  10.   [ other ] (0 votes)

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Yeah Marvin, you did the thing!

7b_wizard - - Parent

[ #dreaming #visualizing ]
Had one clear dream now too: with 4 or 5 big green bell peppers [ surely due to a current fruit-prop thread on reddit and me recently buying much bigger than usual single unpacked big green peppers (not three of mixed colors, packed) ].
[Makes my vote for "7", now a "3", makes it overall 6 in 11 Dreamers, 2 Maybies, 3 Non-Dreamers].
I could remember it clearly right after I woke up during it, and clearly reminisc parts of it. But alas already can't remember it well anymore, now.
Mostly snapped-in fluent pattern, little to no correcting, no effort felt. Not sure anymore if it felt overwhelming (maybe that a bit too) or rather like a normal thing to do (rather that). Now, which pattern? - memory is mixed now: I think a clear rather big clean 5b cascade. But also I have some gaps or holds and 4b juggling in mind, maybe a 4b-7707700 [inspired by Giuli's 1-7 ball Sevens?] or 552. Those veggies didn't handle clunkily as they should've with their stems and not round, but always just the way you usually grasp them, or near like how I imagine larger stage balls would too [I've been wanting to use larger balls for 7b for a while].
Again very dim memory only of where it took place, I think on some lawn in a park with people around.
Nice mind-candy, more than welcome.

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