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Mike Moore -

Nagamekurasitsu video

Some very Cie Ea Eo moments in this video that I enjoyed very much:

https://vimeo.com/225500450

Daniel Simu - - Parent

That was super cool! Thanks for sharing :D

Cole Perkinson -

Hi all! I'm writing as a new JugglingEdge member to announce JuggleMIT 2017, a festival celebrating juggling, object manipulation, and circus arts, taking place from September 22-24, 2017 on the MIT Campus in Cambridge, MA. JuggleMIT, now in it's 4th year, is the largest juggling festival in Massachusetts, offering a weekend of workshops, activities, shows, and good clean fun for the entire family! The festival kicks off on Friday with open juggling, introductory classes, and a stage show, followed by glow juggling outside on the lawn. A full-day workshop and activity schedule on Saturday culminates in the JuggleMIT Circus Show, featuring 10 world-renowned jugglers and circus performers. Sunday features more workshops, MIT-themed juggling games (e.g. nerdy MIT-themed juggling Simon Says, volleyclub, egg juggling, and combat juggling), and prizes. So whether you want to learn a new skill or just unwind with friends, come check out JuggleMIT and experience a one-of-a-kind weekend of crazy good fun!

Okay, formal pitch aside, I think you'll genuinely enjoy JuggleMIT. We've put together a list of incredible performers for our Circus Show this year, including The Red Trouser Show (Boston Faneuil Hall performers), Jonah Botvinik-Greenhouse (2014 WJF overall champion), Matan Presberg, Cate Great, Paris the Hip-Hop Juggler, Susan Voyticky, Alex the Jester, Joe Showers, and Chloe Walier. Full festival passes run at just $30 for the weekend and are available at https://www.eventbrite.com/e/jugglemit-2017-tickets-36675405124. Tickets for the Saturday Show are available at https://www.eventbrite.com/e/jugglemit-circus-show-tickets-36674553577.

For more info about JuggleMIT, and to register and sign up to volunteer or teach workshops, check out our JuggleMIT 2017 event page (https://www.facebook.com/events/480496162299433/) and website (http://web.mit.edu/juggle/www/juggleMIT.html, still in development, so pardon our appearance!). Feel free to direct any questions to me or juggleofficers@mit.edu.

- - - - -

Oh, I forgot to introduce myself! My name is Cole Perkinson, and I'm a third year PhD candidate in Physical Chemistry at MIT researching ways to reduce thermalization losses in solar cells. I started juggling at age 6 in Portland, Oregon, and I have been a regular attendee of the Portland Juggling Festival. I am currently the president of the MIT Student Juggling Club, which meets every Sunday 3-6pm at MIT's lobby 10 under the Great Dome. It's open to everyone of all skill levels, and we're more than happy to teach, so do drop by if you're ever in the area!

Hope to see you at JuggleMIT this year!
- Cole

Orinoco - - Parent

Hi Cole, welcome to the Edge. JuggleMIT sounds like a great lineup. Any chance you could make it closer to England?

Mike Moore - - Parent

Looks like a great fest! Joe's told me about how much he's enjoyed JuggleMIT before, especially the special brand of Simon Says.

I did a little Googling because I didn't know about thermalization losses in solar cells. That looks like an area capable of making a huge difference in efficiency. What kind of solar cell are you using?

Marvin -

The Green Eggs Report for July 2017 is now available. Last month 29 people made 120 posts containing 34 links. See past reports.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Woo! The first time topping the list!

Mike Moore -

Orinoco, I am convinced my progress with inverted sprung cascade is 100 % attributable to you making the "inverted" modifier. Thank you.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BXOR0PMloE3/

Orinoco - - Parent

Wow! That is super smooth. Well done!

Loving the plug for #GuelphJugglingFest2017 in that clip too.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Thanks! And thanks for the subtle reminder to use the hashtag. Someday I'll remember the first time...

Mike Moore - - Parent

Then you'll like this video, too!

https://www.instagram.com/p/BXl59ZXFx9a/

#GuelphJugglingFest2017

I always feel bad posting advertisements so I've decided that I should give something useful before/through the ad.

pumpkineater23 - - Parent

Very nice Mike. The festival looks great!

Mike Moore - - Parent

Thanks! We're trying to expand a bit this year, actually having a show and guests. I'm a little nervous about how the money shakes out because the show location was a bit pricey and I'm fronting it myself. As long as we don't get a horrible turnout we'll break even (and make some money to partially distribute to performers if the turnout is modest to good) but it's still on my mind.

Either way, it should be an exciting fest. Emily and I finished designing a particular puzzle for the escape room last weekend that combines 52 (very short) puzzles into one! Still working on how to use the solution to the mega puzzle in the next steps.

Fun fun fun, I love making puzzles.

Julius - - Parent

Nice man! You will quickly surpass me. Orinoco please remove the modifier this dude is progressing too fast.

Orinoco - - Parent

Hahahahaha!

Mike Moore -

9 ball preparation

I'm looking to direct my juggling into numbers for the next while, specifically working on 7b in a way that will make a somewhat sustained 9b more feasible in the future. I've been enjoying 5 and 7 ups (no 360s) and praciticing 7b at what I expect 9b height will be. Finding these really fun.

My siteswap abilities are a fair bit below my base-pattern abilities, so I'm working through some remedial siteswaps with 5 (771, 75751, and the very non-remedial 933).

What are some other things to work on? Unless it is absolutely necessary, I'd like to avoid 8b and 6b (except in cascade patterns).

Austin - - Parent

Personally I think just try and work on lots of tricks back to pattern with 7, as they are both more fun and more productive than slaving away at 9. Try the 5 and 7 ups with 360s, and try getting a few rounds of 966, 867 and b6666 back to pattern. I also like working on (8x,6)*. On top of that, although I can get 100 catches of 7 most attempts I think it needs to be a lot more solid to be working on 9. Why not try 8? It's a lot easier than 9 and helps with the speed and height.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Thanks for the response. I've worked a little on 966 and (8x,6)* and will continue doing so. I don't like 360s (aesthetically, conceptually, and physically - they're normally asymmetric and hurt my knees when I practice them too much)

Do you think that b6666 and 867 are really useful for 9? Perhaps as a general "it'll make you spend more time on 7b siteswaps", but they seem to be pretty unrelated to a 9b cascade. Which leads me to...

I don't do base patterns of even numbers. I don't like the feel of the scooping motion, and collision avoidance in fountain patterns is a skill of mine that lags behind (and I am fine with it doing so). I've certainly /tried/ 6 and 8b, and worked on 6 enough at least to know that I don't like it.

Current 7b status for me is breaking 100 catches about once/practice.

Austin - - Parent

Well b6666 certainly will be as it will help your ability to have enough control over 7 to get out high throws. If you can do it, 978 would be worth working on if you dont want to do fountains. Other than that I just think getting 7 both rock solid and correctable is the best way forward, and I do that by trying to get increasingly hard tricks back to pattern, preferably with a nice run afterwards to show control. What balls are you using for it?

Mike Moore - - Parent

The problem with things like b6666 is that I expect the bottleneck in skill will be the several consecutive 6s no colliding. I'd be spending a lot of time/effort dealing with an aspect of the pattern that I don't expect would help me with my goal.

I'm using Drop Props (100 g) for 7, and will probably do that for 9. If I'm feeling lame, I might use my underfilled 85 g Drop Props.

Austin - - Parent

Fair enough, maybe just practice doing 7, throwing 1 very high and collecting 6, then going back to 7 straight away. What I'm wondering is whether your goal is just to get some runs of 9, or whether you want a general improvment in numbers skill? Because I only really work on base patterns so they're solid enough to get some tricks in them, because I get bored just running patterns.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Right now, my goal is to build toward runs of 9. I tend to switch focii and dig pretty deep for longish periods of time (e.g. from Feb-July, I only juggled 3b) and 9 is my medium-term goal at the moment.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Ooops, I forgot to say thanks for the idea of doing a collect to a restart. Thanks!

peterbone - - Parent

I personally don't think that any 7 ball siteswaps would be much help for 9 balls. I mean look at Gatto's 9 balls. 9 balls is all about throwing with a very consistent height and accuracy, which siteswaps won't help you with. You're already working on 7 balls high, which is one of the best exercises for 9. Get is as accurate as you can. I'd also recommend working on 7 low to get used to the speed. I'd also suggest to do these exercises with a range of different balls from small to large and light to somewhat heavy. Large balls with 7 will give you the pattern shape and arm position needed for 9. Other than that, just go for 9 with many short sessions.

Maybe these articles will help as well. The first I wrote mainly for flashing high numbers but a lot of the points may be helpful for running 9 as well.
https://web.archive.org/web/20071121072425/http://www.jugglingdb.com:80/compendium/skills/training/numbers/

Mike Moore - - Parent

When high 7 is working with good form, it gives me such a great feeling! 7 low is a bit frustrating right now, but frustrating in similar ways to 9b attempts, so seems like awfully good practice.

Very interesting advice about doing 7 with different types of balls. I'll be sure to do that, especially during club meetings when there are tons of different balls to go around.

Those articles are so nostalgic! Worth re-reading after such a long time, thanks.

Stephen Meschke - - Parent

What do you consider sustained?

I took a look at the jugglingedge.com records database to see how good 9 ball jugglers are at 7 ball juggling. Link to graph showing relative difficulty of 9b and 7b.

Typically 7 ball jugglers are better 9 ball jugglers. Most jugglers who can sustain 9 balls longer than 20 catches can run 7 for more than two hundred.

Mike Moore - - Parent

I probably wouldn't practice 9b unless I thought I could break 20 catches of it at some point. So yes, I'm looking for >20 catch runs.

That's a cool comparison in your graph. I have no doubt that I'll run 7b for 200 catches before getting 20 catches (or maybe even a qualify) of 9b.

peterbone - - Parent

Nice plot. I can spot myself. The problem is though that a lot of 9 ball jugglers may not be interested in long runs of 7. It would be a bit like Usain Bolt running a marathon. Also some endurance jugglers may not be able to get decent runs of 9. That's why the data doesn't follow the linear regression very well at the higher catch counts.

Mike Moore - - Parent

I understand the idea of the comparison between Usain Bolt's best races (100 m, 200 m, maybe 400 m) and marathons against 9b and 7b seems hugely exaggerated. I expect it would be more like comparing 9b versus 3b (or 4b). Distance running and sprints are hugely different. It's not the case that sprinters are just "uninterested" in running distance: elite sprinters couldn't run distance at an elite level, nor could elite distance runners sprint at an elite level.

peterbone - - Parent

Yeah, I said a bit different. I think it would be more like comparing 9 balls to 5 balls. I know that it's not just a case of being uninterested in the other discipline. It's also about what people have trained for. 7 and 9 are still different enough that people could have specialised in one and not be anywhere near as good at the other.

Mike Moore -

Pattern modifier: inverted

I searched through the pattern modifiers and found "is" for inverted shower, but no standalone "inverted" modifier. Does it exist/how would I make one?

Orinoco - - Parent

It does not exist/you write some code for the records section :P

I've never gotten around to adding this to the records section properly for two reasons. Firstly, inverted (& inverse) are usually stated before the pattern unlike all the other modifiers, which means I have to write some code & can't just update the modifier definitions & I'm lazy!

Mstly though it is because I'm not sure my understanding of the terminology is the same as everyone else's. My basic understanding is:

Inverted = upside down
Inverse = time reversed

...but I have heard jugglers use these two terms interchangeably, which strikes me as wrong. But inverted also means inside out & inverse also means opposite so not entirely out of the question.

Going by my definitions, every pattern has an inverse, but not every pattern can be legitimately inverted(?). I try to configure the modifiers so that you can't record impossible patterns. I haven't really figured out in my mind how to differentiate what is & isn't possible.

In the meantime though try using invt+ or invs+ before the pattern code in your input eg. # 3b invt+sprungcas I trust you to use it responsibly!

Mike Moore - - Parent

I agree with your definitions (though I seldom hear inverse), and I would not use the terms interchangeably. With "inverted", I'm of the camp that it can ONLY be applied to 2xs (I could maybe be convinced to include 1s...maybe), and it means to "be thrown such that its path goes over (both of?) the other balls".

These days it's also applied to Julius's fantastic sprung cascade pattern where he throws it over 2 of the 3 other balls. Everyone's accepted this because throwing the 2x over all three of the other balls seems infeasible.

Weeee, thanks for the add! I wonder if Julius will add his record to it!

Orinoco - - Parent

Interesting observation about inverted patterns must contain a 2x throw which goes over everything. I'd not thought about it that way before. All the inverted patterns I've seen are box & shower variants where the inverted pattern looks like the base pattern reflected along the horizontal axis, so I have been taking inverted literally.

With hindsight 'underlined' & 'overlined' would have been a better descriptor for these patterns.

Julius - - Parent

Ok I juggled a little bit today and attempted a longer run. Also I decided to jump on the instagram bandwagon but I think it's too hard to use if you don't have a smartphone like me, so maybe I will immediately stop using instagram.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BXQdxXnAK-V/?taken-by=hans7114
I count 83 flip flops so thats 166 catches correct? I will now try to set my record in the record database.
Quinn Lewis asked me a few months ago to make him a video like this and I sent him a very bad quality video, this video has better quality so I hope he sees it! (maybe someone can send it to him)

Mike Moore - - Parent

I've passed it on to Quinn. Ahh, such a good pattern.

I'm with you when it comes to instagram. It's HORRIBLE on anything but a smartphone (which is why I really have to force myself to watch anything on it). It's too bad that all the amazing juggling on there isn't somewhere with a better desktop interface.

Julius - - Parent

Thanks!

Yea it's ridiculous, there isnt even a straightforward way to upload something

Scott Seltzer -

OMG, are you missing the IJA 70th Annual Festival that started this week? Well, you can read all about it on eJuggle with updates daily: http://www.juggle.org/ejuggle

Mike Moore - - Parent

Finally read through these and enjoyed them (especially the silly snippits) very much. "Only at a juggling festival can you get hit in the head with a flying object someone else has thrown, apologize for getting in the way and actually mean it."

Little Paul - - Parent

Whoever wrote that is clearly not a Brit

Orinoco - - Parent

I remember at the EJC in Carvin 2004 my friend Dave & I attended a takeout workshop. One of the moves involved clawing a club out of the pattern from above, swinging it behind you at arms length in a full circle to place back in the pattern from above. I on't know where he came from but at precisely the wrong moment a chap appeared from nowhere & took one of Dave's wild swings to the face. This was followed by a competition to see who could apologise the most.

Scott Seltzer -

What the heck is juggling anyway? Erik knows!

https://youtu.be/ZyMZkqZFEZ4

The Void - - Parent

I disagreed immediately. I mean, why would such a smart fellow choose to film in portrait?
. pic.twitter.com/u2lmvSU0JV
— The Void (@TheVoidTLMB) July 14, 2017

I agreed with the preamble, but it got problematic when the actual definition started. But is such a long definition useful?

barnesy - - Parent

Yeah, TL;DW.

I followed a little of the Facebook discussion about how this definition had been whittled down to mere pages (or was it reams?). I'll have a look at that if it appears but I don't consider a 15 minute video to be information, especially one which didn't seem to yield a point when I skimmed through it

erik aberg - - Parent

Barnesy, here you go:
Juggling is a genre of activities related to the default form. The default form is the three ball cascade.

pumpkineater23 - - Parent

How far does the border have to be from the 3b cascade before it becomes 'not juggling'?

erik aberg - - Parent

It's not about distance. It is an on or off switch. Is there a relevant relation or not? Is there another genre that has a stronger connection to the subject than 3 ball cascade, or other established forms of juggling?
One thing to always remember, is that we are dealing with communication and the meaning of a word here. For an example, if I walk into a pizza place with another juggler and the pizza chef is throwing the dough around, I could easily start talking to my juggling friend about the pizza tricks as juggling, and he would know immediately what I was saying. If the person I was talking to was a non-juggler, it might be harder, since it is not as certain that he would see a connection to other already established forms of juggling.

pumpkineater23 - - Parent

Perhaps dance is the default form? I think there's an 'outside' and 'inside' of what juggling is. The inside is - feeling a motion.. a dance. The feeling is the same as dancing, you're using an object/s (balls, poi, pizza etc) to feel the dance instead of your body. Skateboarding is using your body and an object to feel it. The playing of a musical instrument isn't related because of the lack of motion.. you're feeling rhythms & melodies.. but not motion. Does that make any sense? Not sure myself.

Little Paul - - Parent

Far TL; Can't be bothered to W - but:

Is a definition even useful?

Definitions usually only serve so you can point at things which don't fit the definition and exclude them. Something I haven't been interested in doing with "juggling" for a while

lukeburrage - - Parent

I like the idea of exploring the boundaries of a concept, as it lets you find areas that haven't been explored yet. However, defining what the word juggling means is a different exercise of defining what "juggling is", or can be. Completing the first step is probably useful before beginning the second step.

However, if I'm to watch a long video, it has to be more interesting than that in the first minute for me to continue on with it.

erik aberg - - Parent

Luke, if you want to claim that the word juggling represents something different than "what juggling is" you will have to explain that difference. The word juggling is only a representative for a concept. I does not matter if you try to leave the area of language and the meaning of words, when you still use language and words. Using words in communication confines you to their meanings, unless you explain how they would differ.

erik aberg - - Parent

Little Paul,
We use the word juggling, and we mean something when we do. Therefore, I did not make a definition. Its already there, I have no say in the matter. I can only describe what the word means already.

Q: Is a definition even useful?
A: Yes, because when we understand deeper what it is that we are doing, we can reach further, and be more effective. We can communicate better. Removing confusion is both pleasant and aesthetical.

"Definitions usually only serve so you can point at things which don't fit the definition and exclude them."
For sure you can come up with more uses to understanding language and the meaning of words, than that one.

erik aberg - - Parent

What is problematic about it? if you let me know I can explain.

erik aberg - - Parent

Void, I was rushed and time was limited. The purpose of the video is to reveal the general thoughts. I am not great at explaining, and I am afraid those who wants to understand might have to get involved in the discussion. What is unclear? please tell me, and I will do my best to explain. Not only has the definition of juggling been an area of much disagreement, it also seems as the approach to it differs greatly, from person to person.

Mike Moore - - Parent

For those who find this video too long to be palatable, start here:

https://youtu.be/ZyMZkqZFEZ4?t=644

Ameron Rosvall - - Parent

And here is a summary of the definition, which may or may not make sense unless you watch the whole thing.

"Juggling is a genre of activities which are related to the default form. The default form of juggling is the 3 ball cascade."

Topic of discussion: is the default form really the 3 ball cascade?

Orinoco - - Parent

I am now tempted to watch the whole thing because that is not something I'd expect from Erik. There must be a lot more to it than that.

I always use the definition: "Doing what doesn't need to be done in the most difficult way possible."

I've tried to find the source of this definition a few times. Earliest reference I can find is from Jerry Carson in 2001, which is almost certainly where I picked it up from originally. However, Jerry's message suggests it comes from further back.

peterbone - - Parent

Wouldn't that definition include many other activities such as skateboarding, rock climbing and base jumping?

ChrisD - - Parent

Yep, and Brexit.

Orinoco - - Parent

...& 'defining juggling'.

erik aberg - - Parent

If someone is interested to read more about the definition of juggling, there is some discussion about it in this thread:

http://forum.objectepisodes.com/t/the-definition-of-juggling/407/71

Scott Seltzer - - Parent

That link didn't work for me but http://objectepisodes.com/t/the-definition-of-juggling/18/2 does.

pumpkineater23 - - Parent

Interesting. Thanks for the link. Objectepisodes looks great!

Mike Moore - - Parent

The Kingston Jugglers have, "Doing the unnecessary the hard way" on their t-shirts and they've been around a while. Greg Phillips would probably know when they started using it.

Scott Seltzer - - Parent

Slightly different wording from 1993: http://dev.juggle.org/history/archives/jugmags/45-3/45-3,p28.htm 2nd paragraph.

Orinoco - - Parent

Longtime friends David Cain and Jay Gilligan won the Fargo Intermediate and Juniors Championships

David, are you younger than I think, or is that sentence missing a 'respectively'!

Daniel Simu - - Parent

The pictures in the article clear that up, respectively indeed

Monte - - Parent

Why is it important to define juggling? Is it just so you can deny it includes poi?

Orinoco -

Familiar face just popped up on the Kuma Films channel:

https://youtu.be/dB40oZWEgxI

7b_wizard - - Parent

I saw juggling and skills and flow.   And he didn't even bother to wrap his sweater up to bare his arms for the contact parts.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Really liked the shot around 1:34, and cool to see what Komei is up to these days.

Daniel Simu -

Juggle Jabber with Triolar: Liza, Anna and Ronja

You might not know these 3 girls yet, but you will soon! They have a lot of cool original passing stuff going on, and Liza is an amazing solo juggler too!

I had a lot of fun recording this interview, and I thought you might have fun watching too :)

https://youtu.be/zfhOmcmsLsE

Mike Moore - - Parent

Were they the ones who put out a beautifully filmed video about half a year ago? Lots of juggling in fields, I think, and directed attention well?

Daniel Simu - - Parent

If you mean this, then yes

https://vimeo.com/201353970

I put the video in the eJuggle article, but since most people go straight to youtube I should find a way to include some video material of the jugglers in the interview video...

Mike Moore - - Parent

Thanks! I'd googled a bit but couldn't find it.

I wonder how many people would click on an ezine article rather than a Youtube video here. On most internet forums I imagine that far fewer would, but that margin may be smaller on jugglingedge. Personally, I didn't expect there to be any value-added on the ezine article (like with Dan Holzman's Drop Everythings) so it didn't strike me to look there.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Sadly I have no insight in the ejuggle statistics. I also don't know how many people listen to the podcast version, or how many people are not listening now that we're temporarily not on iTunes... Btw it turns out it is so much easier (thanks to youtube) to publish a video series than to publish a podcast!

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