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Sergei -

What does it mean "flash" and "qualify" in case of 4 balls sync collumns. I know that in case of 3 b cascade it is 3 and 6 catches. How to count in case of 4 b collumns as each catching act consist of TWO balls ?

Guili - - Parent

hello sergei. according to wikipedia a flash is a form of numbers juggling where each ball is only thrown and caught once
so each hand will toss both balls, catch them and that's it :)
here an animated gif made by my great friend "palito" (sticky in english)

Sergei - - Parent

Sorry, this link is not working for me. May be I need some "sesame" word ))

Sergei - - Parent

Guili - - Parent

hi sergei! too bad.. it was just an animated gif made in jugglinglab, you know it?
it's a juggling emulator. shows you any pattern. it's really usefull.

Sergei - - Parent

Thanks, I have got it correctly, but it is the TRICK "flash"/ I mean different issue

Guili - - Parent

try now, i think it was not in "public" post

Guili - - Parent

or it is a juggling trick where every prop is simultaneously in the air and both hands are empty
like this:

Maria - - Parent

What you call one "catching act" is still 2 catches.

So a flash, 4 catches, so each ball has ben thrown and caught once, even if you do two balls at a time (like in sync patterns).

A qualify for 4 balls is 8 catches, each ball thrown and caught twice.

Guili - - Parent

ah, so when you're juggling sync patterns, a flash is like that?
(didn't get we were talking about sync patterns before)

Sergei - - Parent

Thanks, Maria, I got the point. At least I can flash 4 balls column. Two simultaneous throws and two catches of 2 balls. I warms my ambitions that I can juggle 4 balls in this humble pattern )) Next step is to qualify this pattern ))

Sergei - - Parent

As I understand you live in Sweden where my sister lives for more than 20 years (Uppsala)

Maria - - Parent

Yes, I live in Sweden, not too far away from Uppsala either. I juggle in Stockholm, though.

7b_wizard -

Do you juggle more than you walk?

Competition type: Poll
Closing date: 25th Feb 2018
Select option to vote

Mike Moore - - Parent

Kneejerk reaction: of course not!

But now that I'm thinking about it...I'm not so sure. If we exclude walks under a couple minutes, then it's very close.

Maria - - Parent

Same... If I count every step as walking, I definitely walk more than I juggle (especially since it is not uncommon to walk while juggling, too).

If I only count outdoor walking it might actually be less than the juggling, even though I walk to work every day. Or maybe about the same amount of time.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Yes - meant walking several steps at least, so also walking around to pick up dropped balls, just as much as walking out of the house anyway. But not tripping single steps to correct one's positon while juggling, and also not taking one-two steps towards a dropped ball to pick it up while already bending down, but just really normally walking upright.

Basically, if one sits or drives a lot and doesn't usually need to walk a lot, AND-OR gets long runs a lot while juggling, not walking around a lot while practising, but rather mostly standing, then there's a great chance that they'd juggle more than they walk.

Maria - - Parent

Does walking while juggling count as both walking and juggling? (For example passing patterns where you are walking... I do those a lot.)

Does walking from the kitchen to the livingroom count, or only walking more than a few steps?

7b_wizard - - Parent

[see answer & distinction two posts above] .. I don't know what made me have that thought, but it struck me that I am actually juggling way more than I walk. Why "walk"? .. well, it's sooo genuinely normal, we think we do it always and forever and it's so omnipresent, it's part of our definition as upright walking humans. Yeah .. wrong! - we don't do it as much as we think .. we have cars, bikes, trams, planes, trains, busses; we have professions and desks where we sit; and for many people, jogging, walking, taking a walk, wandering is an activity that they (have to) take extra time for. Walking is not ``always there´´ as one might easily first think.

So, one juggler might indeed be juggling (notably) more time than doing what seems granted fro a member of the human upright walking species.

( It's a bit analogue to the insight that modern (over)civilized humans don't walk anymore as much as they used to and not walk as much anymore as what they were ``originally meant for´´, but have cars and sit a lot now, instead. Just that now for juggling, and if it's true for you. )

Guili - - Parent

if we take walking as an activity, not just moving yourself through the house, like maria said, then I definetively juggle a LOT more than i walk...

7b_wizard - - Parent

Any walking counts as "human upright walk", no matter where, while what (even while juggling). Just "time walked" versus "time juggled without walking". One-two steps don't count as really "walking upright" (and it's seconds only anyway), but time of indeed really (clearly) "walking while juggling" counts as +-0, and "walking through the house" is "walking" through the house and counts as such. - Anyway - if one's answer should depend on such distinctions and it's not clear, then please choose "3. Not sure." (unclear, not definitely or positively rather "yes", not definitely or with clear tendency towards rather "no")

Little Paul - - Parent

According to fatbit I walk more than 15k steps every day (which is around 10Km apparently)

There’s no way I juggle that much!

Sergei -

What is normal progress for beginner juggler?
How long it takes to reach and what it means "stable cascade"? What about other tricks?

Guili - - Parent

well... i guess it deppends on many factors...
mainly, the time and effort one puts on it, right?
another factor is your body and mind, i mean, it is clear to me that each one of us can be good at some things, not so much at others. for example your body and mind could be more capable for juggling than rock-climbing.
the point is to find something you like doing, and just keep doing it until you get it.
the time it takes you, only you can tell. there is no "normal" people, we're all different.
also the context, are you juggling alone? is somebody teaching you?
for example it took me a few years (teaching myself, not doing it everyday, or even everyweek) to master 4 balls, but my wife got it in like a month with my help... i don't think that means she's better that me... each one of us is walking his path.
so i guess my advice is allways compare yourself to yourself, never to others.
enjoy the progress, don't get anxious to get to the goal.
it's a brave thing you're doing. starting with this world at 67 y.o., so my respects to you!

ah, and i guess 60 catches could qualify as stable, right?
but it's endless... i mean, after getting the 60, you will want to make 100, and so on...

Sergei - - Parent

My record is 80 catches, but next time balls falls after 10-12 throws (((

Orinoco - - Parent

Never worry about how long it takes to learn a pattern. Just enjoy the process!

Little Paul - - Parent

Juggling is a journey, not a destination. Nothing wrong with enjoying the scenery!

7b_wizard - - Parent

"Stable", I'd say, for a pattern is when the pattern is well-timed (right handmovements in time, comfortable tact) and well-spaced (comfortable equal spaces between all balls, good geometry), well-aligned (no great spread, balls follow one another well, follow their flightlines well).
You can get a "stable cascade" sometimes, but still not always, still doing tensed and with arms rowing a lot (e.g. when doing a nice, but too big huge pattern), and still getting drops and fails also a lot. So, getting a "stable pattern" isn't yet the best you can get.
"Stable juggling", I'd say, means you get stable patterns a lot and have less to no drops; I guess, it also then means more control.

Other words (and notions) to describe how well a pattern (itself) runs or how the ado of juggling it goes (judging also posture, hand- and bodymovement), are "kept up [for #n rounds or catches]", "fluent", "flowy", "floaty", "snapped-in", "running", "rolling", (whatever these might distinctly mean) .. maybe "poised" (but that sounds point-of-view, like "nice" or "superb" or so), .. then, rather unprecise, I find, expressions like "getting it down" or "owning" a pattern; maybe these can mean, you can show the pattern anytime a few rounds, or else it could mean, you can do it in your sleep.

Higher levels, I'd say, would be when it is not a challenge anymore to do without drops, when hands seem to ``do all by themselves´´, when you're getting better at correcting outbreakers back to pattern (easily) with fast precise correction throws, or even when you can bail out a completely rotten pattern back to stable. When you can move, sit down, bend, turn, jogg with the pattern, do it on bycicle. When it's well in rhythm, when the whole ado (You + balls + your handmovement + the whole pattern + your brainwork + your automatisms + your mindset) feels like One.

I like (to go for) control over the pattern, full control.

How long it takes to learn depends on how much you stay aware that there's always more to still learn that you know nothing about yet, thus not getting stuck on a level where you think you got it, but don't get any better and don't understand why.
Always reckon for the unknown.

Other tricks give a compare to how juggling is more than getting the cascade down - they define the cascade and its skills as what it is among what else there also is.

Guili -

Hi there! been a while since i last posted here...
but i'm still training ;)

i want to start a juggling club. how do i begin? how does it work?

i now it must be kind of a stupid question for many of you...
but i've never been in a juggling club.. there's no such thing in argentina.
only a few circus schools that opened these last years.
I even live in a small town called Lago Puelo, in patagonia, so not many cultural things available.

I love juggling. it made my life so much better. and i love teaching (i am a music teacher for kids).
so i want to create a place where old & new jugglers can meet, learn, exchange ideas, play together...
i was hoping you can give me some guidelines to how to kick-start it.
one good thing is that i actually know a few jugglers around here... so i can invite them to begin with...

Little Paul - - Parent

My plan is usually:

- Find somewhere to juggle
- Find a time to that place is available every week
- Tell as many jugglers as you know (adding it to http://jugglingedge.com/clublistings.php and using facebook/instagram/etc to get the word out helps)
- Turn up at that time, every week, without fail.

That's all you really need to get a juggling club started.

Everything else (beginners workshops, teaching, social meetups etc) is an added bonus, but at its most basic, you need to be in the same place at the same time, predictably, reliably, week after week.

It's Him - - Parent

An initial publicity stunt or some other form of marketing also helps.

When starting Spalding juggling club (which folded when we left) an hour of club passing at the local market proved enough advertising to get sufficient numbers to pay for the hall.

When starting Concrete Circus a few assemblies in local schools helped.

Nigel

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Since you know a few jugglers around, perhaps not just invite them, but involve them! See if they are as excited about starting a club as you are.
For newcomers it's much easier to join a group than to join an individual, unless you want to set up a workshop rather than a typical juggling meeting club.

Guili - - Parent

thanks! lots of usefull data!
i'm going to give it a try these days, or weeks... and will let you know!

charlieh - - Parent

You need a space and some jugglers. That's about it. If you want it to last I'd add:
- turn up on time or a bit early so it's open when people arrive
- make sure it happens regularly - if not then make sure you tell people when it's closed
- make sure you take some time out of your own practice to welcome new people and teach others (ask some of the other regulars to help you with this)
- keep feeding in new people - advertise (online is cheap/free), print some cards or flyers that you *always* have with you, juggle at student events, juggle in parks, juggle everywhere
- if it costs money make sure you plan to run it at a profit - you can always use this profit to buy stuff for everyone to use, put on shows etc. but don't plan to 'just break even' (you won't).

The classic mistake with juggling clubs is not finding & encouraging new people, which leads to the attendance shrinking, the same people running it (and becoming weary of doing so), less money to pay for venues etc. and eventual closure.

Little Paul - - Parent

"if it costs money make sure you plan to run it at a profit" oh god this.

You don't have to aim for a big profit, but you should aim for a profit. If you're running at break-even and you have a few weeks where attendance is down, you'll end up funding the shortfall yourself. If you're running at a profit you've got a buffer to use on those quiet weeks.

Guili - - Parent

yeah... profit?
you know the expression "two horse town"? well, in the town where i live you actually see people riding horses, or a pair of oxes pulling a cart... so.. yeah, not sure it could happend.
I did try to open a paid workshop, a few years ago, it started fine, but in mid-winter fell apart...

so, i guess it is a "non-profit" :) thanks anyway, some usefull data too.

also, do we need to get some kind of ensurence? or leave under-age people out of it?
how do you people deal with that?

again, thanks everybody for the advice, it's beeing really usefull.

Sergei -

I want to hear about your first "juggling magic experience". I was just tossing up 2 balls with my right hand with no hope to catches them as at age 67 I never even tried to learng juggling. Suddenly I felt that both balls are safely back in my hand. I was really wonder feeling for me ))) Wand to know about YOUR first juggling "wonders"/

7b_wizard - - Parent

wonderful question!

I can not remember, it is around 40-45 years ago, i think. First thing that I remember is that I was juggling three tennisballs as cascade when the sports teacher was gone for a few minutes and unlocked the small room where the balls are.

Only years later did I come back to juggling and learned tricks and 5 balls.

There's so many different kinds of magic, of fascination, of simply fun:
when I have control,
- I can shift focus on for example one distinct balls' orbit and follow it through the pattern,
- I can gaze through the pattern into the distant and do with peripheral view only and not see single balls anymore,
- I can gaze near the crossing point of the flightcurves, or near the top of the pattern and watch the balls burble up all the time,
short: it's queer and fun to watch my own ongoing pattern when it seems like my hands are doing by themselves with no need to focus or concentrate, just keep on doing and I can watch it.

That was optical impressions. But when my technique got much better, it became ``mental´´ - I get sensations of ``flow´´, or just very fluent juggling, and the kick lies less in the optical impression but more in the feeling of the hands going on moving right and well.
It is then, when the juggling ``snaps in´´, when I do with snapped-in timing and the rhythm is fluent and the pattern just ``rolls´´, when hands and balls' flights are synchronized.

It was also fun to land my first bodythrows, .. clawing wasn't such a revelation, but getting my first single backcrosses with 3 balls felt great! Like stepping through a door leading outdoors that was closed, lighting up my spirit.

Another kind of magic is when I get another trick, another pattern with a more or less broken rhythm (for example juggler's tennis) or a so called siteswap ( for example: [click! --> 441 or 34530 <-- click!] ). - It is then like in music, a rhythm or a beat or a melody, and it can be funky or have a crescendo or it can be galopped.
When I first get such a pattern, get the right heights, the right rhythm, the right timing all well, it will ``click´´ in the brain :o) dope I tell you!

And still then, what I find greatest, is, when the juggling, a pattern, is not only snapped-in, or not only clicked, but also when it is - suddenly or after working hard on it - .. when it is easy with no effort, when I can at a given moment of full control relax and let loose, breathe out, settle down, and I have the sensation of letting loose and the pattern will not collapse, but go on, like when walking.

Sergei - - Parent

yes, many guys recommended me claws, I tried it today and have the feeling I can learn it in couple days and I am not sure it will add much to my juggling experience )) Thanks a lot for sharing with me. It gives me some directions where "tasty" juggling things are hidden ))

7b_wizard - - Parent

These tasty juggling things are highly individually different, you''l hardly find two jugglers with the same repertoire.
Some go for "numbers", many balls or clubs or rings, .. some collect all the tricks with few balls that they can get, .. some go into a lot of contact elements like rolling or stalling ( =parking them somewhere for a beat or two or three) the props on and around bodyparts, .. there's related object manipulation skills like diabolo, devilstick, .. other artistry to combine, like walking globes, unicycle, .. fire juggling looks spectacular, .. some specialize on a certain trick family or on their style, .. don't forget passing with one or many partners, juggling games, .. and many many more things.
It's a huge and vast field and everyone can find themselves doing what suits them and what they like.

I like to watch, listen, feel which kinds of throws offer themselves in a given moment and fulfill those intuitions, but I surely also reproduce or imitate a lot of what I encounter others doing.

7b_wizard - - Parent

another magic is that "aha"-effect when you (suddenly) get a new trick pretty easily that you thought was hard, that looked hard when you first saw someone (or that animated stickman) do it -and realize it's not so hard at all now. - then also instructing others, teaching and watching them have such moments when they think or say "Hey wow! I can do it!" with bright eyes is even shared magic then.

Sergei - - Parent

YES ! Yesterday I was teaching 3 b cascade in the restaurant to young man using winter gloves as props ))

7b_wizard - - Parent

obsession. passion. keep that!

7b_wizard - - Parent

.. and still another kind of magic / tasty crossed my mind while just practising: the prospect of what you think you can do longterm next!? every pattern or trick or basic skill that you get down opens up new worlds of possibilities .. what seemed completely impossible(!) before, or what never even crossed your mind, and what you didn't dare to think of and consider, all of a sudden gets within reach! it's awesome!

Daniel Simu - - Parent

So many magical experiences... Such as when I discovered that I could climb stairs while juggling 3 balls... Or when someone showed me the factory trick and how to break it down, and I realized that there was a lot possible with 3 balls. Or when I tried to run 3 balls in one hand in the classroom in high school and I felt like it wasn't that hard after all.. But also still now, like last week when I tried a new sequence of connected 5b 3up 360s and figured that I could get it without too much effort! There are so many magical moments :)

7b_wizard - - Parent

yeah, .. "up + pirouette" feel great! .. Sergei, you can try that with "1 ball up + 360° pirouette" or ".. + 180° half turn".

Sergei - - Parent

I guess I will abstain abrupt 360 turns for a while as falling and breaking legs at my age can cost a lot ))) I quit training Karate (I am 4 grade black belt) last 4 years in order not to have serious injuries. Nevertheless I think it will be great to flash 3 up and make 360 turn. Let it be my "Golden dream" for next couple years ))

7b_wizard - - Parent

not "abrupt", but throw very high (outdoors or in a gym or hall), and you can turn slowly half way round for the (1 up) 180°-ies.   ( But, well, I see, no legwork, no stilts, no walking globe, then, whatever you like or suits you best, then. )

Sergei - - Parent

Thanks a lot, I got the point. My wife is Ballet Instructor and I hope she will coach me these turns ))

7b_wizard - - Parent

@ all Edge users - so little participation on this wonderful topic? .. c'mon folks, wake up and share your magic moments!

7b_wizard - - Parent

.. I could fancy, also for example passing, showbizz, first video uploaded, surprising yourself, would provide for some worth posting, no?

Maria - - Parent

The original post asked for my first "juggling magic experience", and I don't remember that! It was too long ago... I do remember being really happy about keeping 3 balls going for a few catches though, so that must have been in the beginning.

I have had the "magic" feeling a few times though. Like when walking and passing, turning around and seeing an incoming club exactly where I expected it to be. Or just when a nice passing pattern works well.

Of course, most of the "fist time I got that trick" moments are really good, too. :)

7b_wizard - - Parent

Yah, good. (oh yeah, I somehow overread that "first" in o.p.) .. [..] exactly where I expected it, oh yes, very good! .. Good moments, thx 4 sharing!

I really need to get into passing better soon than late!

Do you remember what or a moment that made you change towards or decide for juggling with clubs mainly?  ( surely better for passing, but .. )  did it also feel more comfortable, suit you more when you tried first(lol) time?

Maria - - Parent

Well, I had just learned to juggle a 3 ball Cascade (without knowing the name of the pattern) when I decided to buy clubs. I didn't know any jugglers by then, had just learned by myself and had no idea what else to do with the balls. To be honest, at first I saw clubs mostly as a practice prop for torches, though I had seen a juggler doing cool tricks with clubs, too.

It certainly didn't feel comfortable trying to juggle clubs at first! Like I said, I didn't know any jugglers, I tried to learn at home standing over my bed (which is a bad idea for club juggling, teaches you all the wrong technique). I more or less gave up on juggling, just picked up the balls or clubs a few times a year, then not at all...

...until 10-15 years later, when I went to "Medieval week" and a few other events and saw the jesters. They had a fire show, they were juggling torches, and they were passing with them! That's when I decided that, all right, this time I'm actually going to learn this. I took out my old clubs from the cupboard, started practising twice a week (only for about 15-20 minutes), still by myself, couldn't find any other jugglers nearby. A few months later I visited my first juggling Convention, only over the day, but it was fun and I saw 3 passers doing Roundabout. I was like "oooh, that is cool, I want to do that!". (My juggling was still not good enough to join the beginner passing workshop, though.) I still didn't have jugglers where I lived, but I moved about half a year later, found a place to practise with someone who knew a little bit of club passing, went to another juggling Convention, where I met Staffan from my current juggling club (Fritidsjonglörerna), started practising with them and... Well, that was a long answer, but I think passing was the main reason that I choose to almost only juggle clubs. That and the "fact" that they look cooler than balls. ;)

7b_wizard - - Parent

I read: the spark came by the fire!? .. and by roundabout passing. .. Very nice story, very motivating / inciting too. thx 4 takin' the time!

You should do  t o r c h e s !!  :-O  :o)

Maria - - Parent

I have torches, and I have juggled them a little bit, but honestly... Not quite as fun as trying to do passing patterns that are just a little bit too difficult, with regular clubs. There is a video on Facebook where I am passing torches with two of my friends, though. Happy to have done it, will probably do it again, but it's not important any more. :)

Sergei - - Parent

Can I borrow your "tasty" juggling experience ? )) I expect that juggling while walking can boost serotonin in my brains )))

Maria - - Parent

Juggling while Walking (and turning around) is good for many fun passing patterns, I recommend it!

pumpkineater23 - - Parent

After my first few months of juggling I dropped something (a Cherry Bakewell I think) whilst fumbling around in a high cupboard. The catch was perfect and came out of nowhere. It really surprised me.. it felt super-human, like that scene in The Fly when he catches the fly. I'm actually quite good at catching flies too with my juggling-enhanced lightning reflexes. Mating flies are the best. They're slower when they're mating and opening a hand to release two flies really blows people's minds!

Stephen Meschke - - Parent

Juggling 7 balls for more than 100 catches feels pretty magical. I try to do that every day if I can.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Agreed (for 50-70 catches in my case, and for if I even get these) .. feels unreal when it ``rolls all by itself´´.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Not sure about my first magical moment. I can tell you the first trick I did that I never thought I'd be able to do was 97531. Hitting that for the first time made me very happy!

There have been a few more recently. Mostly little steps toward fully inverted sprung cascade, because I had some doubt that I'd ever be able to do it.

Guili - - Parent

hello sergei!
I wanted to tell you, not about my first magical experience (i've been juggling on-and-off for almost 20 years now!) but about my last one.
yesterday i was practicing for 7 balls (my biggest focus these days). I've been trying it for a few years, but never with these days' stubborness :) . so, yesterday i got to catch the first 5 throws, not much ok, but the trajectory of those balls was so nice, almost perfect... they just landed on my hands...
we all now moments like this last only a few seconds... but when you train for 7b... you really treasure those seconds... since all the rest of the time you will be crawling to retrieve the balls... jajja

Joerg - - Parent

I have learned 3 ball cascade almost 30 years ago and do not remember any magical moment from that time. Finally in 2012 i wanted to learn more and came across a web site called 'kingscascade' with a lot of three ball tricks. I also bought the book 'The Encyclopedia of Ball Juggling' of Chrlie Dancey and wanted to teach myself Mill's Mess. Charlie had a very motivating way to describe tricks: 'The Mill's Mess is the crème de la crème of the three-ball juggling patterns. A tongue-twister of triple trickery! Anti-gravitational hand jive in the key of three balls!'.
A magical moment was when i finally could manage Mill's Mess and directly afterwards i joined a juggling club.

The second magical moment was a year later when I have learned the 5 ball cascade and it feels no longer hard. To cite Charley once more: 'The Five Ball Cascade' is the purest five pall pattern there is. It is a landmark in the juggling carrer of anyone who achieves it, the beginning (and for many the end) of Numbers Juggling. Whenever you see a Five Ball Cascade you can be sure of one thing - that juggler has been practicing a lot'.

I hope for some more moments when 7 ball cascade and 3 ball inverted box feel easy.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Joerg - - Parent

Thanks for the service and taking me 5 years back. I remember that i have learned Mills Mess by the tip: Learn windmill in both directions and then continously change directoin after one round. This does not directly end up in Mills Mess but to something very similar.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Yw, .. jus' wanted to remind it's been archived. - Depending on at which moment, with which throw you start the sidechange it would become Flo's Mess instead Mills Mess; (but there's of course endless more variations for confusion).

Joerg - - Parent

I remember another 'magical' moment: The first time when i can look through a juggling pattern and not focusing at one position. I remember this moment when passing 6 clubs and i could look into the eyes of my partner.

Mike Moore -

Activities to keep new jugglers interested at club

I'm considering making some kind of resource of many fun tricks/patterns/games that:

1) Do not require high technical skill (3b cascade is sufficient)
2) Result in the building of skills that are likely to be useful in future juggling
3) ARE FUN

This is inspired by an old workshop handout from Mr E. called 3 Ball Fun With Others, presented at the 2011 IJA.

What are some activities that were fun for you when you were learning to juggle? What are some you've encountered, or thought of since? Interested in individual, newbie-newbie, and newbie-oldie (and with more people, if you have them!) activities.

(I'm aware of the importance of non-juggling things to keep people interested, but that's not what I'm focused on at the moment.)

Orinoco - - Parent

The Circle Game!!!

Mike Moore - - Parent

Oooo, wonderful! Thanks!

Guili - - Parent

great one!
played this game with kids as young as 8 y.o., lots of fun while also working on skills.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Bothhand passing large e.g. soccer or basket or volley balls .. a 2 people 2 ball or 3b bothhanded shower or 3b bothhanded cascade ?

7b_wizard - - Parent

Have a lot there to discover: all kinds 'a props, ropes, sticks, lasso, cups, PET bottles to spin into stance, anything. a throw-heights-relations-poster (or drawing) on the wall. an internet connection. a shelf with a few juggling books. big stuff like a rack, big cases, a trampoline, a walking globe.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Do you think there is an optimal time to start teaching different props? It would be a dedicated effort (not a "Hey, what's that?) because our club tends to stick with balls rings clubs poi flowersticks diabolo.

7b_wizard - - Parent

I'm afraid, I have no idea (maybe s.o. else). I was just thinking of beginners who were for the moment ``done´´ with balls and learning the cascade, soas there would be lots of other things to explore.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Finish your sessions as a group with some long (3-5m) endurances! If you drop, pick up and get back in the pattern ASAP. People pick any pattern based on their own skill level.

standard 3b with 4 hands juggling, but back to back

Sitting, rolling down clubs from your knees. getting 5 clubs to roll in a cascade isn't too hard, 3 is super easy and 7 is a fun challenge (which can be mastered in one or two sessions)

If I teach workshops to adults, I get them to try ass catches. Can't go wrong with those

Frisbeeing 3 rings at once stacked like a fan for a partner to catch on arm-head-arm

One of my favorite passing patterns, which can be joined by people who are able to exchange 2 clubs ( 330 ), is the carousell. It requires at least like 4-5 jugglers, it gets more comfortable with 6-7+. With half of them okay jugglers and at least one good one it's not hard to get this running:
One juggler stands on one side (6m free space behind and beside him), runners form a row on the other side. All runners except the outer right one (from runners point of view) will hold 2 clubs, outer right holds 3. Juggler also holds 3. Outer runner(runner 1) and juggler make a pass at the same time, but juggler passes to runner 2. Runner 1 leaves the line, runs behind the other runners and joins them on the left side. Runner 2 receives L, makes one self, and another pass, while juggler passes (in 2count) already to runner 3.
All the runners hold 2 clubs, wait for their one "receive, self, pass", and then run behind to the other end of the line, making them turn in a circle around the juggler and in a circle around each other. Juggler continuously passes in 2 count, but always to the person next to the one from which he/she receives the pass.
It's easy to get it to work once the runners understand "receive, self, pass", and the runners have a lot of time to pick up dropped clubs. If the juggler drops, you can work out how runners can sacrifice their clubs by making a pass even though they haven't received (juggler skips a runner) so that the pattern can keep on going.

Phew, I hope that makes sense, there is probably an easier way to explain this. Like, me acting it out when I'm in your gym...

Mike Moore - - Parent

Hmm, I hadn't even considered the effect of our meetings not having a specific ending time. They're always a "Come around 5:30, juggle until you don't want to anymore". That said, having a particular time for endurance games could be good!

I think the priming by Orin's post made your description very easy to understand[1]. We could of course do a carousell with balls, too!

[1] But still come visit if you're ever in Ontario

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Fly me over with the perfomance budget of your nearest convention, and I'll stick around to teach some mass passing :p

7b_wizard - - Parent

blow up a silk-hanky with accu-hand-fan, max three blowers per re-blow-up, then they step back. upto two hankies per group ?

Two-person-five-object passing is a great way to get 2 people juggling together, while being easier than standard passing.
Juggler A always throws straight (ie. R hand throw to partners L hand) Juggler B always throws diagonally (ie. R hand throw to partners R hand). The pattern goes A-R B-L A-L B-R. Get the better juggler to do the straight throws, as the diagonal throws are easier.

Basic takeouts are a good fun extension of 3 ball juggling for two people. There is the challenge of maintaining a cascade-with-a-hole for the juggler, and the challenge of timing the steals and replacements for the stealer.

Learning to spin 2 rings in opposite directions on the arm is another thing that's easy to explain, not too difficult (and not too easy) to achieve, and readily leads to other ideas.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Ah, I think you've outlined nicely some new metrics for value in your last suggestion. I recall there being a trick like that in the Encyclopaedia, too. Thanks!

It's Him - - Parent

As a fairly easy starter game that enhances juggling skills and is fun, volley ball, as opposed to volley club, is much simpler and only really requires you to be able to juggle for a few throws. Games that work well with kids and that might work well with adults include Simon Says, 3 ball Combat and even things like 'What's the time Mr Wolf?',

Running a youth circus group, the things that they learn quickest are all the balance skills (stilts, walking globe, unicycle and tightrope), diabolo and hula hoop. They also enjoy staff, poi and levi stick but it helps if you have someone around who can do more than just the basic tricks.

Nigel

Mike Moore - - Parent

Ah, never thought of some of those! I think British Bulldog might also be fun.

Mïark - - Parent

Wouldn't British Bulldog be a non-juggling game? Or do you propose to make people juggle while they run across avoiding being flattened?

Mike Moore - - Parent

Replace "flattened" with "made to stop juggling in a gentle way" and you've got it.

Guili -

hi! i wanted to share some cool JugglingLab lists i made.
some patterns i can do, some are for training.

https://www.mediafire.com/folder/dm27o0wdm6ryl/JugglingLab

feel free to share your own!

Guili -

can anyone post a link to a full version of a juggling simulator?
i mean, i have JugglingLab, and i love it. but sometimes it doesn't give me answers..
like, it can't show clubs, and it's really hard to figure out the transitions you can do between some patterns.
i've been looking around, but only got some sharewares...
wich SIM you like most?

7b_wizard - - Parent

http://home.mnet-online.de/jongl/download.html   Freeware. Needs some getting used to multiple windows, slightly modified siteswap syntax, rightclicking a lot, what which option does, view and zooming results as far as I remember, .. but it's worth it. JL is easier and tweakable; jongl has better graphics and more viewing options.

In Juggling Lab --> Tab: "Generator" you have --> Checkbox: "transition throws". A problem with Jl pattern generator is, that you have to extra search every period duration.

Here's a sweet transition generator: http://cursomalabarismo.no.sapo.pt/jdb/ulbox.html

7b_wizard - - Parent

A ladder diagram is always helpful to see where you can fill in lines to (transition to) a valid pattern: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juggling_pattern#Ladder_diagrams It's read like a juggler (the ball paths respectively) that walks a step with every beat .. seen from above.

Guili - - Parent

thanks man! lots of data :) loved the transition page!
you know, those ladder graphs, i've been having lots of fun with them!
(been feeling kind of a nerd, too... people actually use them? i made a bunch)
i read about those graphs a few months ago, and watched a talk about math and juggling by allen knutson,
and it changed the way i see juggling.
the fact is, in argentina we don't have circus schools, or conventions..
so everything i know i tought myself..
now, thanks to the WWW i'm gettin a lot of info.
and thanks to sites like this, and people that share!

7b_wizard - - Parent

Same with me .. I rarely meet jugglers in the park in summer. Two years ago it almost became a group with upto four jugglers (else two) on few days. Casually interested people take only one short free lesson. So, online is way more input (& output lol?) and feedback and questions i have getting answered and topics discussed and news on records, new skills, inventions, juggling-science, ideas, jugglers all over the planet .. oh! many many more.

[Service:] https://youtu.be/38rf9FLhl-8 (knutson) .. hey that's a long watch on s'swaps, nice along with performing the patterns. Guess I know most of it, but I'll stagger skipping through it anyway cos I still can't do it in my head only (without drawing a graph). And bookmarked it aside Ben Beever's Axioms (http://www.twjc.co.uk/siteswapaxioms.html or: http://web.archive.org/web/20110614170219/http://www.jugglingdb.com/compendium/geek/notation/siteswap/bensguide.html?page=4, "8) AXIOMS" ) in my juggling science folder.

Orinoco - - Parent

There's a pdf copy of Ben's book available here which is a lot easier to browse & can obviously be downloaded.

Guili - - Parent

yeah.. it's astretch..but it doesn't get boring, i got real fun out of it, and learned a lot!
just a few months ago i didn't even know the whole pattern world..
i now feel i was just randomly tossing balls... jeje..

also, i now have the wish to gather every juggler in argentina and come up with a convention!
i'm thinking next january, middle of summer, patagonia gets reeeally beautyfull.
so, if anyone was planning a trip to south-america, let me know!

Orinoco - - Parent

The IJA is doing a lot of work to promote juggling in South America with their IJA Regional Championships (IRC) at the moment. Erin is the IRC Director who can be contacted through the Contact Us page. Thom Wall pops up here occasionally has & I'm sure would also be able to offer helpful advice.

Guili - - Parent

great! thanks man!
i'm gonna contact them and try something for the summer!!

Orinoco - - Parent

http://ydgunz.github.io/gunswap/animator.html

Is a very nice fully featured simulator written in html & javascript so no need to download & install.

Guili - - Parent

good one!
thanks jon!

loganstafman - - Parent

It's very nice, but I wouldn't call it fully featured by any means. It doesn't do some multiplexes or sync patterns, it's only vanilla siteswap as far as I'm aware. I'm working now on porting JugglingLab to html5 so people won't need to download and install, but if OP doesn't like JugglingLab, that doesn't help lol.

Orinoco - - Parent

It does too:

Synch
Multiplex

Guili -

hi there throwers! (hopefully catchers too)
my name is Guili (i'ts pronounced gilly) i'm from Lago Puelo, Argentina.
this is a video i made a couple years ago
https://youtu.be/1Cm3sDanNk0
currently training for 7 balls. any advice? (besides patience..)

7b_wizard - - Parent

Hi, benvenida con página! Great fun you had there with the vid! :o) Skilled thumb-spins! - - - 7b-advice: conquer heights, widths, speeds (low), nimble [esp.: presto, ágil] throws and skills more with 5b, before you do 7b (before in general, and before in a single practise unit).

Guili - - Parent

thanks 7b_wizard! :)
i'll have that in mind.
i really want to conquer 9b in this life...

Mats1 - - Parent

For 7 balls:
Focus on keeping the throw height really consistent is the most important thing.
Practice every day will help a lot (so try to do 10-15 minutes on 7 balls at least everyday).

Guili - - Parent

yeah.. just waiting to move out of this stupid low-ceiling-house i rent...
at the end of this month i move to a house where i'll have the space.
now i'm focusing on upgrading my 5b, multiplex, 3 in one hand...
but the advice works too. consistent hights, 10x!

Darren May -

Hi juggling community.
I'm a small time juggler with plenty of experience at 3 ball cascade, variations of it, and are working in Mills Mess now, have put a lot of time into it and plant to continue to do so in future.

I am on here so I can hear what other jugglers are doing and talking about, and to exchange ideas.
Darren

Mats1 - - Parent

Have you tried learning 4?

Darren May - - Parent

I know how 4 is done but haven't continued learning it.
To me it is only doing 2 in the one hand in both hands at the same time, so isn't so exciting.

It's very hard and I haven't seen juggling 4 as worthwhile learning up till now, but may in future.

Mike Moore - - Parent

I was in a similar boat when I started, not liking 4 much. I don't really like its base pattern much, and I didn't juggle 4 balls much until I could do a bit of 5. At that point, you rarely do 4 balls in its base pattern, anyway!

Here is some great 4b juggling:

https://youtu.be/NEBeteSSxyA

BuddhaJuggles - - Parent

Mike Moore , thank you for sharing that video it was fun to watch. Its hard to find a great 4b video , In my attempts I never ran into that one. Four ball juggling seems to get snubbed some times or treated as a tool for 5 balls. Anyways, thanks again.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

OHMYOHMY
Did Julius New just appear in that video, with his full name written on the screen??

Julius - - Parent

:D oh wow I didn't even realize that. seems like i'm very silly and inconsequent.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Well, as it is in a video which is not posted under your name, it is almost completely unsearchable (except through this post)... Not that silly I suppose ;), and tbh I already forgot what it said and don't care to look up again...

Guili - - Parent

hi darren!
you know, i've been there too, and my advice for you is to look into mixed-hights patterns for 4b. E.G. 5344.
also, there's a whole new world in multiplex, if you haven't been juggling multi, i suggest you do! SO MUCH FUN!
and 4 balls is a great number for multi.
have you ever tried "jugglinglab"? it's an app that lets you find thousands of patterns with any amount of balls you want. very fun to use and immensly usefull.
finnaly, if you want to get to juggle 5b, it's helpfull to master 4b.
keep it up!

7b_wizard - - Parent

Hi & welcome Darren! Good choice The Edge :o)

A'll exchange the idea, that Mills Mess is - or can be looked upon as - windmill changing sides (so learning windmill first might make the MM easier to get it).

Little Paul - - Parent

Hi Darren!

I have fond[1] memories of being at the stage you're at. It's a really special time in a jugglers learning experience so make the most of it and lap up everything you can!

If you haven't already done so, take a look at the Clubs and Events sections, and if there is anything happening near you jump right on it!

By far the best thing any juggler can do is find other real life jugglers to meet up with and juggle with!

Of course, the second best thing a juggler can do is find other internet jugglers, and you've done that bit :)

[1] but dim, it was over 20 years ago

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