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A robot Kendama?
I love this machine. Could watch it forever. pic.twitter.com/dvjUjpaMb6
— Vlastimil Hovan (@Vlastimil_Hovan) October 16, 2017
(watch to the end) not quite a 6th Dan, but still very impressive. Can't believe the guy watching this contraption walked away just as it got to the best bit!
It looks as though the guy works at the stand, and has seen it do the same routine all day. I'd be bored by it on the third day of a convention too!
Very interesting, especially as I watched this video immediately after reading this piece from The New Yorker: welcoming our new robot overlords. The article mentions that object manipulation is one of the hottest topics in robotics.
I would like to see the larger version of this robot found in the comments do the throw, whip around, catch trick with a person.
Congratulations to the Void!
I have just read on a Facebook post from Donald Grant that he has passed his 6th Dan Kendama exam. this is the highest level and he has become the first ever non-Japanese to manage it. I know that he has had several attempts beforehand and that it had proved elusive even though all the individual skills were doable. So many congratulations on his perseverance.
Apologies for the uncapitalised 't' at the start of a sentence. Just goes to show I should read my posts more thoroughly before hitting the post button.
Thank you, Nigel. I'll even forgive you the "t".
I wrote a Twitter thread about it, that starts here:
Today I became the first non-Japanese player to pass the highest grade of 6th Dan in kendama. It's the hardest thing I've ever done. 1/- pic.twitter.com/SdzusdcqQn
— The Void (@TheVoidTLMB) October 14, 2017
This is really cool. Congrats.
Is there an easy to read list of the tricks you needed to do, with video links?
I don't know enough about kendama to be sure, but this video claims to show all the tricks for 6th Dan in kendama: https://youtu.be/Yx47Uh6OfQo
http://kendama.co.uk/tricks.html lists them all, with gifs, if that will do you. Right hand column of the Advanced/Dan table will show you how many of each one I had to do successfully in 10 attempts. (Plus, of course, having previously done all the stuff to get to 5th Dan, and then wait a year before being allowed to try.)
Yes, the list is good and the rules are clear. The gifs make my eyes bleed though, so the video was highly appreciated.
If you want to read the long* story, it’s at http://kendama.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3098.msg29896.html#msg29896 (after the tweets).
* Don’t say I didn’t warn you.
That was a great read thank you. The story is always much more interesting than just the bare facts. All the more satisfying to learn that your achievement was in spite of sub-optimal conditions.
* As ever I disagree with the insinuation that 'long' equals 'bad'.
Well done Void! First in the world is a helluva thing!
I enjoyed the 'long' read.
Thank you. But it's far from "first in the world". There are ~30-40 extant Japanese 6th Dan players. But I'll take it. :-)
Yes, fair point. I actually meant first non-Japanese in the world, as per OP, but now you've got me thinking about it I see that doesn't really make a whole lot of sense.
How about this: Congrats Void! Approximately 41st in the world is a helluva thing!
I go along with that.
On foreign terrain it's so much the better an achievement as the natives always have an edge or two with a long tradition an' all on their side. On a side note, as a halfway decent chess player (over 50% on club level), I had been into Chinese Chess, Xiangqi, for a while, and the natives (real-life and online play) gave me a hard time to even win one game and leave rookie level, while I could win games against germans or other longnoses. However.
Congrats, The Void!
Well done mate. I didn't even know you were trying again this year. Is that it now or can you go even higher?
Anyone know if there’s a proposed date for chocfest yet? I can’t see anything in the events listing, but I’m trying to plan my January :)
Damnit! Chocfest have just announced they’re going 20th jan - the one weekend I didn’t want them to go for :(
Sorry, we booked it straight after last Chocfest, but the someone else had already booked our preferred date so we had to go for a week earlier.
Does this mean you might not be coming Paul?
It means I definitely won’t be coming, I’m getting married instead - venue and registrar we’re booked this afternoon.
It also means some of my guest list will have to choose too :(
If only you had announced yesterday!
practise versus ``talent´´
(no matter which level you're on - just started or world champion ..)
How much do you think that all your skills are (to which part) a result of practise or hard ``work´´, perseverance, or else
(to which part) did they ``come to you´´ by a natural preference for juggling (or object manipulation or artistry oror) or by a natural predisposition or a love for juggling making learning easier (than e.g. for the average juggler, or e.g. than learning another skill or art of motion or sportive activity)?
A few aspects helping to answer:
Even Gatto said sth like, there's no such thing talent on his level or for him - it was all hard hard work.
Think of what you can't do even though you think you should.
Was your decision or how you got to juggling totally intrinsic (=absolutely "yours" and the only thing to do, ``necessary´´ in a way) or could it just aswell have been something else, another hobby or activity.
Do you see yourself improving and learning much faster than others (that's the point, not learning easy stuff fast only).
Do others admire the speed you improve or learn (while you yourself might not have noticed).
And a question that I'm interested in:
Do you think or have you experienced a hidden talent waking up after already having juggled for a good while? Do you think that's possible to ``wake up the natural inside you´´?
I myself am somewhere between 2 and 3, but sill blundering a real lot when not yet warmed up or when not concentrating, also failing over long phases, makes me say "2", even though I hope for it to become easier, maybe the natural skill inside waking up, some day when I've reached my goals and then not having to so much do at the limit anymore. I don't think I'd have gotten where I am without the inner decision to dedicate to the 7b cascade, which is maybe rather a preference than ``natural talent´´, who knows.
You're asking multiple questions at once, which makes it hard to answer correctly...
I think I have some but little natural talent in learning object manipulation skills. However I am extremely predisposed to love juggling which makes it incredibly easy to spend countless hours on practice. So effectively my natural affection for juggling makes me a good juggler?
Yes, [>>"multiple wording"<<], wanted to include a wide range of viewpoints for "talent\\not talent".
Okay, that makes it a bit difficult ("little natural talent, but love for juggling making practise easy"),
but, as the question is scaled along "talent vs. practise", I'd say, your description says, that your love for juggling sort of enables or helps you to make up for little natural talent. But you don't sound, like new skills ``come to you´´ or that your natural afffection for juggling makes learning (notably) easier than for the average juggler or than another activity - at least not in a way that would spare you to still having to practise a whole lot. That would be a clear "2", I'd say.
So, @ all, if in doubt, feel free to read the options as roughly ..
1. 0-5% talent - 95-100% practise (hard work only)
2. 5-25% talent - 75-95% practise
3. 25-45% talent - 55-75% practise
4. 45-55% talent - 45-55% practise (equal)
5. 55-75% talent - 25-45% practise
6. 75-95% talent - 5-25% practise
7. 95-100% talent - 0-5% practise (pure talent, just do it and it will naturally succeed in ridiculously short time)
I put myself down as a number 2. I think I'm very similar to Daniel, I got good at juggling because when I first started I enjoyed it so much I did nothing but practice. Perhaps because of my enjoyment I didn't realise it was 'hard work'.
Agreed. The choices are made a bit complex by the 'love of juggling' part, which I think makes the vote lose focus on the nature vs nurture argument. I think that any natural aptitude is very small, but I voted 2 for the same reason as you.
Interesting Gatto's comment that he thinks it was all hard work. Where does that quote come from? On his own forum years ago he said that he believes he has some kind of natural advantage and sees things "in slow motion". Although I don't believe that at all I do think that believing it helped him a lot.
I always thought that seeing things in slow motion is acquired. When you first start attempting 5 balls it feels frantic and crazy fast and impossible. After a while (perhaps a few years or more), it can seem slow and simple. Gravity obviously hasn't changed but your perception has.
Sometime after I was pretty solid with 5 balls, I remember when it really clicked even more and became truly effortless. I fondly remember that as my juggling nirvana.
That 'love of juggling' wording is due to me trying to exclude, that ``talent´´ (which anyway is hard to seize as notion) need be determined by some genetic predisposition, let alone by a distinct ``juggling gene´´. And I tried to allow, that a wunderkind could feel as a natural without a need to have genetic evidence, without the need to have been ``born as juggler´´, just with love of juggling, then. Also, I wanted to avoid any discussion about whether ``(genetic) talent´´ even exists or not.
That Gatto statement is nothing like a citation with a source; I had it in mind, read it somewhere - it might be a mere rumour or misinterpretation (alas, I have no idea, where I got that from).
I'd put me somewhere between 5-6. When I can dredge up enough time to practice daily, I feel my progress goes by leaps and bounds, and it seems like I could be /very/ good if I were to try to make a career of juggling (or prioritize it higher).
There are certainly people who pick things up faster than me, but that population seems to be somewhere between 10-25 % of jugglers I know. There's probably some selection bias in there.
I'm a 2. I find it very difficult to understand juggling patterns and I've always learned everything slower than most. My love of juggling has helped me keep up the practicing.
This poll has now ended. The results are:
I managed to make my first TWJC session in an age last night to celebrate the club's 25th anniversary. Only Kevin, Dave K. & myself from the old old guard but lots of people from the new old guard which was lovely to see & it was great to catch up with good friends. Kev is still insisting that the first plate is still spinning by the time he finally gets his multi-plate contraption up on his chin. Archie is now a foot taller than me. I can just about still juggle 5 clubs but have to fight every throw, but why would I worry about juggling when there was so much cake available?
& don't think I didn't see you chasing that poor cat across the car park after the pub Kevin.
Very sad news.
Bath juggling club - a review.
My first juggling club was the Bath club, at the Window Arts Centre. I went there from about 1994 till I moved to Bristol in the late 1990s. It survived for many years, but folded quite a while ago.
Now Henry Lawrence and Charlie Dancey have started up a new juggling club on a Thursday night. It's been running a couple of weeks now. I guess you'd call it a 'soft launch', in that they have gently publicised it by word of mouth to a few local jugglers, but don't seem to have listed it anywhere yet or set up a website.
I was busy the first two weeks packing for and attending Broxford, but I went along last week to check it out.
The venue is Pipley Barn, in Lansdown (at the top of the hill on the northern outskirts of Bath). This barn has been recently renovated by Henry, and I think he's intending it as a multi-use space: camping barn, cafe, music studio, and event space.
It has been beautifully renovated, although there's still a bit to be finished, so the main space had a few piles of unassembled kitchen cabinets and shower cubicles in the corner!
There were five of us there last Thursday, which was nice and friendly: me, Henry, Charlie, Robin & Linda. The club is advertised as suitable for juggling, board games, playing music, and consuming tea and snacks.
There is a main event space, which is the main barn space with a pitched roof and wooden roof trusses. If you stand under the peak I think you'd probably be able to juggle five clubs. I had no problem juggling three clubs anywhere. For passing I think you'd need to stand across the hall so you missed the trusses. With the current piles of building supplies that would probably limit you to four people passing at a time, but once those are cleared there may be room for more club passers.
As well as the main space there is a large kitchen, then the corridor leading to the toilets opens out into a small lounge area with sofas which would be great for socialising or playing music. Down the corridor are what will I believe be an accommodation area and a recording studio once work is finished.
The main space also has tables and chairs stacked up (I think it will eventually be a cafe during the day), so room to sit and chat with a cuppa.
The club has a lovely chilled vibe (as you'd expect from a space that Henry has put together). I'll definitely be back :-)
The barn is hard to find if you haven't been there before. It's nestled amongst fields, woodland and the golf course in Lansdown, next to the Cotswold Way footpath. Here's a link to it on Google Maps: https://goo.gl/maps/mUyxrETFHg92 It includes photos of the barn (pre-renovation).
To get there, drive north out of Bath on Lansdown Road. Go past the Golf Club and Racecourse. You then turn left on a private drive (towards Brockham End) - the turning is before you get to the Sir Bevil Grenville monument or the turning to the Avon Fire Service centre.
Go along the drive (noting the "No entry, private drive" sign!). After you come out of the woodland it opens out on to the golf course, with a tiny wooden signpost showing "Pipley Barn" to the left and "Brockham End" straight on. Turn left here onto a rough gravel track. It is very easy to miss, particularly in the dark. If the road dips down you have gone too far and are heading down to Brockham End.
After turning left onto the gravel track continue as it turns to the right. Then Pipley Barn is on your left. Henry puts out an easel with a juggling sign on it, but it's easy to miss in the dark. I've suggested he put a light on it to make it more obvious. There are absolutely no street lights up there so it is pitch black!
There is parking for about half a dozen cars in the barn courtyard, and probably a few more on the side of the track outside.
Highly recommended for a chilled juggling and social experience! Plus you get to reminisce about the good old days of juggling with Charlie Dancey ;-)
Here's the official details from Henry:
We are restarting the Bath Juggling Workshop.
Where: The Institute of Excellence, Pipley Barn, Brockham End, Lansdown, Bath, BA19BZ
The barn is near the 7th tee on the Lansdown golf course, and near point (1) on the map
When: Every Thursday evening starting 7 September 2017 from 7 pm.
What: Juggling hall with lots of spare props.
Board games (Chess, poker dice, BN1, Khet 2.0, Settlers of Catan, backgammon)
Table football / airball / mini-snooker
Do it yourself BBQ (weather permitting)
Leaf teas, ground coffee, cakes and biscuits.
Cost . Free first time, then £5 (waged) or £2.50 (children and concessions)
Hope you can come.
Henry Lawrence and Charlie Dancey
I went to the Bath club again last night. Very quiet this week - just me and Henry!
Still, we had a good passing session (just 4 count while Henry gets his eye back in). It also inspired Henry to turn out his juggling bag until he found his magician's thumb tip, which is useful for protecting his injured thumb from being bashed by unruly clubs. So hopefully we can now get Henry doing more passing again :-)
We also had a nice little session playing guitars in the corner. (Last week I picked Henry's brain for advice on buying a second-hand guitar. I bought one at the weekend, and wanted to see if I'd done ok. Henry thought I'd got a very nice guitar at a very good price, so that's a result. I'd also always been very impressed with Henry's guitar, and in a side-by-side comparison my one stands up as being in the same league as his, which makes me happy. Mine is from the some stable as Henry's (a Yamaha FG700S, compared to his 40-odd year old FG140).
The barn has had a bit of a tidy up since last week, with much of the building materials and clutter tidied away. Still a bit more to do, so Henry is holding off on a publicity blitz until it's all cleared away.
Of particular interest is a wood burning stove waiting to be installed (sometime next week I think Henry said?) That will be very nice in the winter warming the hall, and giving a nice focal point. Will it be the only juggling club with a wood burner?
Our passing allowed us to evaluate how well the hall works as a juggling space. As expected, passing lengthways down the hall wasn't so good because of the roof trusses. It worked, but doubles would be impossible, and singles were only a few inches away from the beams, so at risk if the pattern wasn't perfect.
Passing across the hall worked absolutely fine though, plenty of height. There is a pendant lamp hanging down in the middle of the hall (as well as all the halogen spotlights). We didn't ever hit it, but Henry is wondering about a pulley system to pull it out of the way during the juggling workshop.
As is customary with juggling club reports, the important stuff:
Tea: no loose-leaf tea this week, but the tea-bags were posh individually wrapped ones, in a china teapot with gold motif, served with milk in a matching china jug. 9/10
Biscuits: milk chocolate digestives, followed by shortbread fingers. 7/10 (would be higher but Altern8's posh biscuits have spoiled me!)
It would be nice to see a few more people at the club, it really is a very sweet space with a lovely vibe. Using a space owned by a juggler feels so much more at home than a church hall!
I'll come at some point. I was considering it this week, but Thursday crept up on me too quickly.
It has a habit of doing that. I think they should delay it by a day. In fact most days creep up on me. Maybe we should delay every day by a day?
Can I ask how the wood burning stove is protected from juggling props? I have one at home and we already broke the glass once with a stray club. Some kind of screen is needed without looking too ugly.
Currently just a sheet over the top (it's not installed yet).
Annoyingly the place where Henry intends to install it is the middle of the wall on the longest side of the hall, which is also the best place for passing due to the roof trusses!
It's opposite some floor-to-ceiling glass doors, which Henry intends to cover with a screen when the juggling workshop is on. I'm guessing he'll also need to invest in a wire mesh fire guard too to put around the burner!
After just two people last week, it was good to see word had spread, and we had eight people this week :-)
Henry, Charlie and Robin were there running things. I came along with my mum (not a juggler, but she was visiting, and was happy to come and listen to Charlie's stories of the good old days). And Jade, Lindsay, and Scott were doing some fine acrobalance when I arrived.
The wood burner has been installed, and despite the rather mild weather, was fired up. Very nice. I passed on the suggestions about protecting the glass door in some way :-)
Tea was back to loose-leaf again this week, but the china teapot could do with being bigger with that number of people! Snacks included popcorn and some sandwiches instead of biscuits.
I did some old-school passing with Scott (fast four count with lots of tricks). Scott, bless him, gave me some spiel about how he was about to throw a double-spin pass at me that would arrive at an unexpected time, and not to panic. I gently pointed out that I'd been passing for 23 years, and he could throw whatever he liked at me and I'd be fine ;-)
Charlie then joined in and we did 4-count/2-count feeding with run-arounds.
Eventually I managed to persuade them to do some proper lefty/righty stuff, so I did a simple pass-pass-self feed while they attempted 3-count. That felt so much better :-)
At some point Henry started playing guitar in the lounge, and people gradually migrated, picking up instruments on the way, to finish up with a nice little live music session. Jade on viola, Lindsay on guitar, Henry on washtub bass, and Scott singing. I think there may have been some harmonica too? I'd love to get my guitar playing up to a level where I could join in.
Sadly we had to leave then as my mum had an early start the following morning.
Great vibe as always. I'll be back next week.
Here is a playlist of the records broken or set in the World Record Challenge at the Guelph Juggling Fest 2017.
3 ball lazies: 2 minutes and 7 seconds by Matan Presberg
3 ball shoulder throws: 204 catches by Jorden Moir
3 ring backcrosses: 183 catches by Matan Presberg
3 club flats: 10 minutes and 42 seconds by Nick Thomas
4 ball lazies: 54 catches by Matan Presberg
4 ball box: 3 minutes 57 seconds by Matan Presberg
7 balls isolated: 1 minute and 43 seconds by Matan Presberg
7 ball 867: 188 catches by Matan Presberg
7 ball claw: 7 catches by Nick Thomas
9 ball reverse: 16 catches by Matan Presberg
3 ball: 1 hand & 1 foot: 56 catches by Jorden Moir
4 balls: 2 hands & 1 foot: 142 catches by Jorden Moir
4 ring speed: 232 catches in 1 minute by Nick Thomas
6 ball speed: 312 catches in 1 minute by Matan Presberg
3 ring slow: 32 catches in 1 minute by Sydney MacDonald
4 ring slow: 76 catches in 1 minute by Sydney MacDonald
4 ball slow: 63 catches in 1 minute by Nick Thomas
+ Number of records set or broken at a single festival: 17?
That is an impressive set of records, congrats to all those involved.
18 last year at Guelph fest! I guess we're going down hill (I blame myself...I didn't set/break any this year. Too much running the fest, not enough juggling).
There was a world record challenge at IJA 2013, too. It looks like a subset of the broken records is available here:
I don't know the total number of records broken there.
I've still got one video left to upload (Sydney MacDonald with 16 min of 4b full reverse fountain), so it should end up as 18 records for WRC at Guelph Fest 2017.
As to previous World Record Challenges...
The first WRC was in 2010 at WJF 5. Prizes were only for surpassing existing duo numbers passing records.
In 2011 there were WRCs at WJF 6 and the IJA festival. The records expanded to solo numbers juggling records in addition to two-person numbers passing (i.e. the records tracked on the Juggling World Records Wikipedia page at that time). The prize for "missing records" was also introduced to encourage jugglers to attempt a flash or better of passing 17 rings or solo force bouncing 11 balls, the only two records considered missing at the time!
WRC 2013 was at the IJA fest in Bowling Green, OH. The records expanded to everything tracked by Juggle Wiki. Missing records were greatly expanded with minimums set for each, based on discussions I had with Alex Lubker. About 28 records were set or broken by a wide range of jugglers, with Thomas Dietz breaking the most.
Then came the WRCs at Guelph Mini-Fest 2016 and Guelph Fest 2017.
Tomorrow another WRC begins at JuggleMIT 2017, so stay tuned...
What you're saying is 28 records in one fest is the one to beat. I'll have to start training for the next time the WRC comes to a fest I'm attending!
Actually, I'll train especially for if you come to the next Guelph fest. It needs more people/publicity! (and I really thank you for helping with that)
I haven't watched the entire video, but I think Gatto does 7 for about 10 minutes without moving his feet here:
I'm not sure that counts as isolation for some reason. I watched Ofek Snir do 7 balls without moving his feet for over 12 minutes at the EJC last year.
The most convincing argument I heard was that the inability to move has a psychological on people. I've found this to be true in my experience.
Such a nice idea to set these records at the convention! I've been thinking about setting a few records lately, but I can't get the motivation to actually film them or practice tricks which I could run over a minute... In a convention/group setting I'd feel less awkward to try and less pushy to post, yet we'd still stretch juggling as we know it!
I might try and introduce this at some convention here in the EU in the future :)
And congrats on the results too!
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