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Cedric Lackpot -

What ever happened to ... ?

So, I found myself thinking about Jouni Temonen, a fabulous juggler from Finland who I met maybe a dozen or so years ago, and he's one of those really great jugglers who seems to have dropped completely off the radar. And I started wondering whether it's because he's doing better, more professional things, or perhaps he's got a proper job/life/baby or whatever and doesn't really inhabit the juggling world so much any more.

And then that got me thinking about Joost Dessing, and wondering what on earth he's up to now. And the more you think about it, the more gifted talents you will remember that seem to have disappeared off the scene for one reason or another.

So who do you recall, who was infuriatingly talented but has since moved on with their lives?

Mike Moore - - Parent

Maybe Michael Falkov. One of the best 3b jugglers ever (IMO, top 3, arguably the very top), but is super off-grid. Not sure if he's juggled in the last ~2 years.

Orinoco - - Parent

Reuben Cohn-Gordon, Arron Gregg & Anthony Gatto (obviously!) are the names who immediately spring to my mind.

Similarly, is it my imagination or is the 'lifetime' of a juggler getting shorter? For example I feel that the more recent BYJotY competitors have not remained as visible in the scene as the earlier competitors (Norbi, Tiff, Tom Derrick, Arron Sparks, Jon Udry, Matt Pang etc.). Has the increased average skill level & easier access to the 'next big thing' made staying in the community's consciousness harder? Has the top level of juggling reached the point where physical limits are being hit & injury is forcing people out sooner?

Mike Moore - - Parent

Oof, I definitely miss Reuben Cohn-Gordon. I had a brief chat with him May 2014 when I was getting into squeeze catches. At that point he implied that he was still juggling some. Maybe there's hope.

It's an interesting point about youngins not staying on the scene as long these days. I got curious about IJA juniors winners...and I wish I knew if more of them still juggled. Below are some of the winners and whether or not they still juggle (to my knowledge)

2005
Komei Aoki - Yes
Takashi Kikyo - Yes

2006
Tony Pezzo - YES
Billy Watson - ?

2007
Nate Martin - ?
Teruki Okamoto - I think so

2008
Ben Hestness - ?

2009
David Ferman - ?
Jack Levy - ?

2010
Noah Malone - Yes
David Ferman - ?
Lauge Benjaminsen - Yes

2011
David Ferman - ?
Jack Denger - ? (stopped making videos)
Patrick Fraser - Pretty much stopped

2012
Kellin Quinn - YES
Jack Denger - ?
Ashley Ellis - ?

2013
Ashley Ellis - ?

It's Him - - Parent

It seems to me that the number of people entering BYJOTY has reduced and that the average skill level is also less. Whether this is because the people attending BJC are getting older (and hence less youngsters are around to compete) or the general skill level is higher and so the good youngsters don't stand out so much or some other reason I couldn't say. Still at least a few of the recent winners are still very much on the scene and in the community consciousness. It was only about 4 years ago that Arthur Hyam won.

Nigel

peterbone - - Parent

As well as other things in life getting in the way, one thing I've noticed based mainly on myself and is that as you get older you tend to seek praise from others less. This is why we make juggling videos of ourselves. As I get older I'm juggling just as much but making far fewer videos. People therefore think I've stopped juggling. I was recently asked to film a section for a video about people who've stopped juggling!

Dee - - Parent

What Joost is up to is very easy to find [he is based in Queen's in Belfast]. His research seems to have veered towards football rather than juggling (probably related to sources of funding).

Monte - - Parent

I miss Brian, nobody does a 5 cheese showers like he did.

Little Paul - - Parent

You’ve just reminded me of “Charlie Cheese and the wheel of cheese!”

It’s cheeky as cheese Charlie!

Orinoco -

You can now include links to instagram posts in the records section.

We also have a new +ringonankle modifier for Norbi Gatto style 'with a ring spinning on the ankle' type tricks.

That is all.

#NewFeature

Orinoco - - Parent

That should've been Norbi/Gatto. I'm pretty sure Norbi has not married into Nick's family.

Although I can't say that with complete certainty.

Mike Moore - - Parent

He wasn't at Turbo this year. Probably honeymooning.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

If only there was an "edit your post" feature ;)

Cedric Lackpot - - Parent

There is. In Reddit, Facebook, Instagram, blogs, forums, Uncle Tom Cobbleigh and all ...

Norbi - - Parent

Now just to add +ringonankle to http://www.jugglingedge.com/help/tossformat.php where she belongs

Cedric Lackpot -

A glossary of juggling terminology - does such a thing exist?

In this subthread over on Reddit someone has asked for a glossary of modern juggling, and to my surprise I realised that I'm not sure such a thing exists, not an authoritative one anyway. Can any Edgizens prove me wrong please? Or suggest some good places for a curious Redditor to start looking? David Cain do you perhaps have some suggestions?

peterbone - - Parent

I think it was our God Emperor who created this one. Seems quite thorough.
https://www.twjc.co.uk/glossary.html

Dee - - Parent

Although I would question "Backdrop"; to me that is what is behind you - in terms of filming or performing (so, do your props contrast sufficiently with the backdrop or do they blend in?) [I would definitely include that as an alternative meaning]

Otherwise, its a pretty good start on a juggling glossary, it maybe requiring a bit of updating in terms of references to people (perhaps, to make it a bit more timeless, I would omit living people from the glossary)

Orinoco - - Parent

Yeah, I couldn't find anything comprehensive when I looked either, which was what prompted me to compile that page.

It's been a while since I've added anything to that page, I think the last addition was buugeng.

I have added the extra definition for backdrop. I've also removed most of the living jugglers from view. I've left in those who I feel are more famous for a contribution they have made to juggling culture rather than for who they are.

New suggestions are always welcome. Any glaring ommissions from the past few years that I should include?

Mike Moore - - Parent

Box and an inverted modifier!

peterbone - - Parent

Squeeze catch

Orinoco - - Parent

Both terms added, & inverse too which is related. Suggestions for less clunkily worded definitions also welcome!

lukeburrage - - Parent

"Combat: US term for Gladiators" should be "Gladiators: the British term for combat".

Orinoco - - Parent

Yeah, I suppose you are right, it does seem to be a purely British term now. I wonder when that changed? I clearly remember it being announced as gladiators during the games at the EJC in 2002.

& is it a 3 club specific thing? I don't think I've ever heard the term 'unicycle combat' for example.

lukeburrage - - Parent

Gladiators is more of a generic term for "the last person doing this prop/skill with contact between participants allowed" so unicycle gladiators is usually still a thing. Also hoop gladiators or ball-on-head gladiators.

Combat is for three clubs and three balls.

charlieh - - Parent

I think it changed when too many people started using the wrong word.

The Void - - Parent

*spills coffee laughing*

The Void -

James Rinehart. This guy's form on pirouettes is... quite something!
http://juggling.tv/16712

Scott Seltzer - - Parent

I skimmed around and saw pirouettes in the last 30 seconds. Did you mean those? They remind me a lot of classic female Chinese diaboloist pirouettes, with a big lean over.

The Void - - Parent

I watched it again. He *is* actually spinning straight (more or less), but the bent over entry and exit somehow make it look like he's spinning bent over.

Ian Marchant - - Parent

It may also be due to the stage.....the stage at the venue has a triple rake so is very slopped from the back to the front. It's quite a pain!

The Void - - Parent

Good point!

Orinoco - - Parent

Hey LP, if you haven't already watched this you'll *love* the tambourine juggling section!

Little Paul - - Parent

At least he apologised in advance...

Dayle -

Hi folks,

First of all, thank you Orinoco for accepting my request to join.

I'm a New Zealander living in South Korea. I used to juggle about 20 years ago and this year (2017) decided to get back into it. Am working mainly on 3b stalls and improving my 5b cascade; my best is currently ~130 throws and catches.

Cheers,

Dayle

The Void - - Parent

Hi, welcome aboard.
Don't forget to breathe. :-)
Void

Stephen Meschke - - Parent

Forget about breathing!

Focus on the pattern.

The Void - - Parent

The two are not mutually exclusive. It's a combination trick!

7b_wizard - - Parent

Oh, I never breathe. Maybe I should try it then.

Orinoco - - Parent

You're very welcome, for the invite, to this website & back to the juggling community as a whole!

7b_wizard - - Parent

hulloh Dayle

Orinoco -

New edition of Spectacle now available.

Alice -

Leeds Convention 18/11/17
Two days to go. The donuts are ordered, the tea awaits hot water , and your cup, and the venue is ready to go.
Same venue as the last 5 years large gym hall all day with adjoining classroom for tea and coffee , evening show brought to you by the organisers of CATCH convention.
Lazy Juggler are braving The South and Oddballs the North to trade on the day. Both traders happy to accept pre orders
Magnificent raffle prizes (Thank you BJC Canterbury) , workshops all day and games with seasonal prizes on offer.
Also a combat tournament ,which you will have to ask the young people about .
Looking forward to seeing you all there.
Alice

Mïark - - Parent

Doughnuts

#LJC17

John R - - Parent

The three-dimensional manifold whose boundary is a torus is a doughnut*. The ball with a sweet filling of some kind is a donut. Or maybe the other way round.

* More than a hundred years of topology and there is still no single word for the object that is to torus as ball is to sphere. Any suggestions?

The Void - - Parent

That's quoit difficult to answer.

Little Paul - - Parent

I like the word “quoit” - it has a nice ring to it

Orinoco - - Parent

*groans*

I hoop this doesn't get out of hand.

Little Paul - - Parent

Halo Orinoco! Nice to see you in a pun thread.



Cheerio again!

Alice - - Parent

This debate was had online some years ago. I also used to use "doughnuts" but was told by an English teacher than language always changes and we update it over time according to popular usage, which is probably why we no longer talk like in Ye olde days.

Anyway thanks to everyone who came to the convention, special thanks to Oddballs and Lazy Juggler, esp Oddballs who had a 10+ hour round trip. Also to our fantastic team from Hullabaloo , especially Jon who did most things and Rosie for the excellent show.
We very much hope to do it all again next year
Alice

Colin E. - - Parent

I love the way the doughnut theme is still running. I honestly can't remember how we came up with that one or when it started. I have a feeling the thought process was little more than "we like doughnuts, let's use the juggling convention as an excuse to buy them by the trayful!"

mike.armstrong - - Parent

My memory (which may be wrong!) is that we were offered a tea urn by the Students' Union when we hired the room. That inspired us to go looking for snacks to go with the drinks. I definitely remember walking round Morrisons with Helen Fitt looking for the best value items and deciding on the doughnuts.
I found a load of paperwork from the 2001 convention the other day; we ordered 500 doughnuts and paid £45!

Alice - - Parent

200 donuts/doughnuts not only cost £20, in the 7 years I have been running the convention this is the only overhead not to go up in price.
Its no wonder we have an obesity crisis, they do taste nice though!

Colin E. - - Parent

Your memory is much better than mine! I do love the simplicity of the whole thing and the way we just made it up as we went along :-)

mike.armstrong - - Parent

...and I'm pretty confident it started in 1999. Our first one (1998) was egg themed but I think we settled on doughnuts after that

Mïark - - Parent

The Basil t-shirt was 1999 and that has a doughnut on it

and 1998 was the Leeds University Juggling Egg-stravaganza

Little Paul - - Parent

I found my basil tshirt on the weekend, and I looked at it and wished I had been able to make it :(

York Jugglers -

We were looking at the publicity claims we could make for Chocfest 23 (20 January 2018) and wondered if we could claim it is the longest continous running annual UK one-day juggling convention

Looking at data on Juggling Edge:

Chocfest has been going every year since 1996

Cambridge started the year before, but there was a 13 year gap between the 5th Cambridge and Camvention

Leeds had a convention in 1992 but didn't have their next one till 1998 and missed out 2000, 2003, 2004 and 2009

Manchester has been going since 1999, but not in 2015 or 2016

Lestival has been going since 2008

Bath UpChuck has been going since 2009

Milton Keynes since 2010

For juggling conventions of more than one day:

BJC has been going since 1988

Crawley has been going since 1993 but missed 1998, 2012 and 2017

Bungay has been going since 1999

Play has been since 2005

Broxford has been going since 2014, but could be considered to be continuation of Bristol going from 1989 to 2013

#Chocfest

Cedric Lackpot - - Parent

Bungay had quite a long hiatus a few years ago didn't it?

Likewise I don't think Play has been continuous.

But Broxford is - so I'm told - very much Bristol in Oxford, and Brizzle started before the advent of human history.

The Void - - Parent

"Bungay had quite a long hiatus a few years ago didn't it?"
No. Glad we cleared that up.

York Jugglers - - Parent

You are right there was no Play in 2015 and according to Juggling Edge not in 2008, 2009 or 2010.

As Void says Bungay has been every year since its start (even through the foot & mouth outbreak of 2001)

Orinoco - - Parent

I quite enjoyed that period where everyone was practicing antipodism & ping-pong ball juggling.

charlieh - - Parent

Actually Bungay ran for 5 years from 1999-2003 and then in 2004 we held our wedding on the farm, with the convention proper returning the year after and running every year since. The wedding was pretty juggly though and at least one person turned up thinking it was the usual convention. We invited them to join us anyway.

I wouldn't rely on Void, he's not been to all the Bungays....:)

The Void - - Parent

If you look at what I actually typed, not what York Jugglers assumed I wrote, you'll find that I was correct. :-P
Can I start a campaign that MBTM actually stands for "More Bungays Than Most"?

Oh, and "General Gordon"!

charlieh - - Parent

I shall have my revenge at some point I'm sure. This (next) year I think we should do Taskmaster.

Charlie
MBTV

York Jugglers - - Parent

Sorry for my assumption (and failure to count accurately the number of Bungays)

Greg Mills -

How can I get my local club’s listing updated? The Lake Norman Jugglers has a Facebook group at https://m.facebook.com/groups/533144923424162 #clubsjugglencjugglingclub

Mïark - - Parent

Iy you change yourself from "Occasional Attendee" to "High Command" then you will be able to edit the listing and add the link to the facebook group.

It would be better if you used a non-mobilephone specific link, ie. https://www.facebook.com/groups/533144923424162 rather than https://m.facebook.com/groups/533144923424162 for people using a computer.

Orinoco - - Parent

Where Mïark says 'ly' he probably meant something that included the link to your club's listing! I've just connected your profile to the club for you so you can go straight in & edit the details however you see fit.

Mïark - - Parent

Hm I wonder how that happened? Yes there was sone text and http://www.jugglingedge.com/club.php?ClubID=1723

Orinoco: your link goes to the Newcastle Juggling Convention listing for me

Orinoco - - Parent

Yes, it would appear I'm incapable of copying & pasting correctly.

I also meant to link to https://www.jugglingedge.com/club.php?ClubID=1328 which is the club I connected Greg to. So it would appear the club is in the database twice...

The Void - - Parent

Wow, is your hash tag really #clubsjugglencjugglingclub ? I guess that's one of the things you want to edit! :)

Greg Mills - - Parent

I noticed that too. I didn't know if whoever set it up originally was trying to include search keywords, phrases or something. It is pretty awkward.

DavidCain -

I thought that there might be a number here who would find this article interesting.
https://www.juggle.org/birds-tree-trick/
David Cain

The Void - - Parent

At least one. Thanks.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Nice read, nice watch.

Little Paul - - Parent

Damn you. Now I have to learn that.

There goes the next year of my life

It's Him - - Parent

Learn it Paul so that I don't have to!

Nigel

Little Paul - - Parent

Race you

It's Him - - Parent

This is actually a project I think should be fairly doable. Let us set some criteria and we can certainly make this a race. How many birds being the first criteria, 5 like David or should we go for a more tree like structure? I can see that anything behind the balance would be a bugger to hit. Are we restricting size of weapon launcher? Is there any restrictions on weaponry? I was thinking of using nerf bullets as I have a bunch and they should be easy to use and safe for an audience. Anything else?

Nigel

Little Paul - - Parent

In my head, I'm making the structure out of PVC plumbing pipe, because it's cheap and easy to work with (and fairly easy to break down for storage/transport)

Details I've not worked out in my head:
* What to make the birds out of - David, I like the look of yours, what are they made from?
* How many to go for - 5 seems like it might be a nice number. 3 doesn't seem like enough, 7 seems like too many, even numbers are invalid
* Size of weapon launcher "don't take the piss" - if it's long enough that the end is only 1" away from the easiest bird that's too long.

In terms of ammunition, I'm not sure. I have access to plenty of nerf darts, but in my head it should be a proper "peashooter" - but then by the same measure it appears to be terribly difficult to obtain a traditional peashooter on amazon/ebay

The nerf solution would be more visual, safer, easier to clear up etc, so is probably more practical.

All in, it looks like a much easier trick to get a handle on than that damn candle trick.

It's Him - - Parent

I am looking at 4 ltr milk bottles as a suitable substance for the birds. I did like the ones David had but wasn't sure whether he just artistic or he found something suitable. I'm not sure whether to go for a thinner, wooden construction rather than pipe. I also need to spend a lot more time on a forehead balance as I normally chin balance. I'll see what I can cobble together and where that takes us. I'm thinking either Bath or BJC next year for the results to be shown. I will definitely be at BJC but Bath is dependant on work.

Nigel

Little Paul - - Parent

I’m a habitual chin/nose balancer (for everything other than the golf club trick obviously) so I think the forehead thing is going to need work too.

I went to juggling tonight for some forehead balance practice, and I’m so out of shape at the moment my knees started playing up.

It did strike me though, this is the ideal time of year to start working on this trick, what with fake trees being available at reasonably low cost in all the shops at the moment...

It's Him - - Parent

Yesterday I went to B&Q and picked up a tree for £4 and some of the cups that furniture coasters sit on (4 for £2.90). I now need to mutilate the tree and do some drilling as well as make some plastic birds. On Wednesday head balance practice was 30 - 60 seconds on my best attempts (as opposed to multiple minutes on a chin balance). So this is definitely a long term project even though it seemed simple in scope.

Nigel

Little Paul - - Parent

Last nights juggling session was somewhat diverted by the arrival of a rather splendid book about the history of juggling - so I only got a small amount of practice in.

I too am struggling with the forehead balance (the whole thing is the wrong side of my glasses and out of focus) and my best is also in the 30-60s range.

Its going to take more than one session per week to dial this in.

I have a nerf blowpipe on order...

It's Him - - Parent

On Saturday at Leeds convention I let a few people have a go at shooting my practice bird off of a club using a straw launched nerf bullet. The ones with the solid balance unsurprisingly did best. Whilst the straw works it isn't an elegant solution so I will be experimenting with a better launcher soon. Practice tomorrow is going to be all forehead balance although I may work on the tree as well just to see how much difference that makes to just using a club. Fortunately I have a few days before the busy period really kicks in.

Nigel

It's Him - - Parent

Having had another play with club and bird yesterday evening, it was much easier balancing the club on the forehead with the bird's wing sticking forward. In fact it was so much easier I managed to shoot the bird off the club (but lost the balance afterwards) a couple of times. This suggests to me that the top bird should be the last one shot off. Today I plan on building my first tree and hopefully get some more birds made.

Nigel

Orinoco - - Parent

I feel the world needs to see two performers facing off on a Renegade stage trying to shoot each others' birds.

DavidCain - - Parent

Hello Gentlemen. The birds I used were just sketches of birds printed on card stock with one half of a table tennis ball taped to the bottom of each, so that they could perch on their "nests". I truly think the easiest way to do it is to get a golf umbrella, remove the nylon fabric, and use the metal arms as the branches. Print out the birds on card stock, bend them down the middle, and put them on the branches. A nerf blow gun or even cheaper alternative works just fine. If you want me to send you a word document with the bird sketch, just let me know the email address to send it to. I'm glad I've been able to resurrect such a fun and completely silly trick.
David

It's Him - - Parent

Hi David,

Can you please send me that sketch to (my name)AT its him dotcodotuk (no spaces or capitals in there)

Nigel

DavidCain - - Parent

Here's a link for anyone to get the bird sketch. I should have just done this in the first place.
http://historicaljugglingprops.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Bird.jpg

Orinoco - - Parent

I'm guessing that's not to scale. What's the wingspan of your finished birds?

DavidCain - - Parent

21.5 cm

Orinoco - - Parent

Thanks. In which case printing this pdf document onto A4 should result in a suitable sized bird.

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