Forum

Search posts

Viewing all threads tagged #NewFeature.

View older threads

Orinoco -

You can now import events from Facebook.

That is all.

Coo, been a while since we've had a #NewFeature. There have been quite a few changes, just nothing worth announcing.

Orinoco -

Just copied live some changes to the records section. The goal is to fix a number of usability issues pointed out by Varkor. The focus has shifted from 'what records have been posted recently' to 'what is the top record'. There is more consistency on what links lead where, I've taken out some stuff that was never used & fixed a load more minor errors. Let me know what you think.

Thank you Varkor for the suggestions. Alternative entry method still to come...

#NewFeature #MoreofaRevampReally

Mats1 - - Parent

Awesome!

Stephen Meschke - - Parent

Thank you for creating the Records part of this site. Records is great data.

I preferred the way it was. I liked being able to see recently posted records, and I can only see those on the 'Latest Activity' on the index page now. Recent records are relevant to Logs and Small Talk, and add to the Juggling Edge experience.

Hall-of-fame should be listed by order of record popularity : 7b Cascade (488 records), 5b Cascade (455 records), 6b fountain (333 records), 5c Cascade (303 records), etc.

Minor things:

  • There are 1029 individual tricks in the records page. The link to download the records is effectively hidden at the bottom of a long page.
  • The link to 'Latest Records' in Recordsstats just goes to Records. The link should say 'Back to All Records,' instead of 'Latest records.'
  • There are 2346 comments, and 188 video links in Records.csv. How do you view these now? While not many posted links to videos, my links got clicks.
  • At the bottom of the '7 ball cascade records' page, it says, 'Your current rank: 31.' I don't understand what this means.

Mats1 - - Parent

"I liked being able to see recently posted records" - Is it possible to have top records and most recent records side by side, nicely formatted, on the records screen, Mr God Emperor?

Orinoco - - Parent

Mats1: It is possible but you know more people use phones than desktops now right?

Mats1 - - Parent

Great point.

Orinoco - - Parent

You can still access most recent records. If that's the main thing you are missing I've added a link to latest records at the top of each page

In the last 4 months only 4 people have accessed the download links, so I'm afraid they will always be at the bottom.

Noted on the videos I can't tell who clicks links to external sites. This is not something I've thought about. I will have a think.

'Your current rank' means your best record ranks 31st out of everyone who has logged a record for that trick.

Little Paul - - Parent

I don't want to stick my oar in too much as I don't use the records section - but would "31st out of 76" make it clearer?

7b_wizard - - Parent

Looks very reduced now ..

Latest, recently posted records (on any trick or s'swap):
are they still accessible, as no link seems to point there anymore now that the top records link points to all records?   I liked to follow all new records to see what there happened outstanding ones and ones that I work on myself. The recent records page just showed more and all for download in case there were many records logged on a day since my last visit that wouldn't show up in the summary. Now one will actually miss these recent ones older than summary, but recent since last visit.

Specific records for a trick / s'swap:
the lists for these now show only the top 20. You can't compare yourself to who's on similar level as yourself anymore.   5b cascade for example starts showing up at James Hennigan's 1117 catches (http://www.jugglingedge.com/records.php?PropNumber=5&PropType=b&Trick=cas). Everyone below that working on 5b cascade will not even show up.
(Did find a way to browse specific tricks' recent history, though: download csv and simply open it with a plain text editor. It shows that tricks' logging chronology.)
Also you don't see anymore how many people are working on that specific trick.

One doesn't anymore see what people except the few cracks are working on. Especially the popular frequently logged tricks.

[varkor in meta:] Honestly, I think other than a global "recent records" section, wanting to see the records that have recently been logged is very uncommon—I'd much rather see all-time records (i.e. in the table).
I think it was adding to transparency of what people are actually working on thus adding to knowing about what tricks single users, but also the community is presently focussing on. (Like, I thought to have spotted an increased interest in bodythrows, after last year it was boxes; sth "with balance" or "with head bounce" being unchangedly all time popular). But, well, if it's never been used .. I might have been the only one interested in what others log, whereas i thought that was part of the sense of logging records here.   And all-time records were there before, maybe just not linked as expected, no? Hm ..

Now, that clicking an user (or oneself, if even showing up among top 20) in a tricks record list points to all that user's records, lower ranked user's records logging history, one's latest records, for that trick is also like .. gone. Only accessible over the "entries" for top 20 users. Clicking on "my records" gets me to all my records .. no my logging history and progress chart anymore!?   [somewhat messy .. I don't look through it all .. A'll just click ("PREVIEW", then) "POST" ;o) .. ]

Is there a reason, a consideration on appearance impacting on community and communication behind this? I think records and their logging's data are by nature complex and sortable in many ways (by trick, by date, by user, by ranking) and there might be no easy way to browse them (present and link them respectively) in respect to usability.   Or is there else a mass of data and webspace issue?

7b_wizard - - Parent

Short:
Latest records except for summary on front page .. gone.
Anything below top 20 of a trick .. gone.
Individual progress chart and latest records logs except for top 20 .. gone.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Ah! .. found a way to browse my progress: http://www.jugglingedge.com/records.php?UserID=885&PropNumber=5&PropType=b&Trick=cas - simply edit my UserID into the url of another user's chart. Or generally us editing the url. So it's not all gone :o)

Orinoco - - Parent

I was prompted by Varkor's post which made sense to me. I enabled logging of what links got clicked for a few months to see if I could spot any trends.

The main consideration for the change is that over 60% of people took one look at the records page then did not visit any other pages. Which is a pretty clear signal that it was not working! So I just want to try something different for a while.

Most people enter the site into Small talk & browse through 2 or 3 pages (Hello! Come & join in!), next in popularity is the events section where people will view 5 or so events which is pretty fantastic. Records is the 3rd most popular entry section.

Those that were clicking through to other records pages were clicking through to a specific trick, which used to contain a leaderboard of the top 50, a list of people also working on the trick which in practice just duplicated the leaderboard. Very few people were clicking through to a user's records that wasn't their own.

I've got individual progress charts showing in the dev site, not sure why they aren't in the live site. I'll have a look at that in a second...

Webspace isn't an issue but the records section is by far the most complex part of the site & Dreamhost's sql servers aren't the best available in terms of query speed, so too many complex queries can have an impact on the rest of the site which I want to avoid.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Ah! Everything's back now ("latest records", progress & chart). Great! Thanks for changing that!

James Hennigan - - Parent

How can I view my comments on old records? I can see a few of them in the 'Latest Records' section, but I can't find ones that are months old. Previously, when I clicked on my 6 ball fountain record, I would get a graph followed by a list of all the records I logged for that trick, including the comments I left on them. Now I only get a graph: http://www.jugglingedge.com/records.php?UserID=990&PropNumber=6&PropType=b&Trick=ftn

Some of us mainly use the records section to track our personal progress, but now it seems like it's only made for the best jugglers to compete against each other. When I click on the '6 ball fountain' link on MY personal records page, it seems much more sensible that I should get a list of all my records for that trick, and not be sent to the leaderboard.

Also there are 2 minor issues I've spotted:
I'm currently 14th on the 6 ball leaderboard, but my rank is apparently 21. Similarly, I'm 20th on the 5 ball leaderboard, but my rank is 33.
Some identical tricks are listed separately e.g. (8x,6)* and (8x,6)(6,8x), [44]0 and 0[44].

Orinoco - - Parent

The leaderboards have always been exclusive. The previous leaderboards showed a maximum of 50 people. It's now set to 20 which I'd argue is still too high, I think most people don't care past the top 5. The new format is less exclusive because no matter where you rank your position is displayed.

Playing with it all a bit more though, I think you are right about links from your records page. Personally there are only two records that I am personally interested in and I can easily remember what they are so I don't need to see my own records. However, I can see that for people tracking lots of records this would not be the case. Sorry Varkor, I get that having the same links pointing to two different pages depending on context is generally a no-no on the web but point 2 revoked (But 1, 3, 4, 5, 6 stand!), links from a user's records page now back to linking to their records only.

I've also added back the records stream in a couple of places that hopefully should placate those that miss it.

For the 2 minor issues, counting is now corrected & identical tricks merged.

I appreciate that this has been quite a big change which appears to be unpopular. Please bear in mind that most people don't complain, they just go elsewhere, so I do need to make decisions based on how I see people using the site.

Which is not to say I don't want any complaints, please keep the feedback coming. Dealing with feedback is a lot easier than trawling through access logs trying to filter out human traffic from bot traffic.

James Hennigan - - Parent

Thanks very much for your response. There still seems to be an issue with the ranks. I'm 20 on the 5 ball leaderboard but my rank is 21.

Orinoco - - Parent

Should be even more correct now.

Mats1 - - Parent

Can it be a user preference as to if recent records or top records are displayed?

Orinoco - - Parent

It can but I'd like to see how the change is used for a bit first.

Mïark - - Parent

Could there be links at the top to the different prop types? - to save scrolling past all the boring props to get to the more interesting records.

Mïark - - Parent

#metatalk

Orinoco -

Thanks to the fantastic Let's Encrypt Project you can now use the Juggling Edge over an encrypted connection. Just change the url from http to https.

#NewFeature

That's going to come in handy...

varkor - - Parent

Any disadvantage to enforcing HTTPS by default?

Orinoco - - Parent

It is obviously slower (albeit infinitesimally so these days).

https pages are not (or at least should not be) cached.

Some proxies/firewalls don't allow https traffic.

Cedric Lackpot - - Parent

Well I never.

I've been running HTTPS Everywhere since BT thought it would be a simply smashing idea to start injecting ads for themselves into their customers' HTTP requests (hint: It wasn't you massive band of cynical cockwombles) and I don't think I've ever noticed another site that reverts to HTTP. I don't require enforced secure connections but it hadn't even really occurred to me there might be places that don't do it.

About bloody time too! <shakes g33k="" fist=""></shakes>

Orinoco -

Several improvements to Causal diagrams this week.

We now also have a sandbox with options to tweak the dimensions & colours allowing you to create some truly horrendous looking diagrams. Also has the ability to export as a png image.

#NewFeature

Maria - - Parent

Awesome! I like the sandbox and ability to export the image, nice to play with and maybe I'll share a causal diagram somewhere outside of the Edge sometimes... :)

varkor - - Parent

Just thought I'd let you know that it doesn't look so good on Retina / @2x displays at the moment — the <canvas> is upscaled, so it gets all blurry. (The trick is to draw everything at twice the size, and then downscale with CSS.) Just to make things a little more complicated for you!

Orinoco - - Parent

I liked things better when a pixel was a pixel.

Is that better?

varkor - - Parent

Yep — that's much nicer! Thanks!

Orinoco -

You can now easily record arbitrary data about your practice sessions using data tags in the log section. The tag will be converted to a link pointing to a line chart plotting the data (when there is more than one data point). A simple example of at data tag:

bystanders_hit:2

The help page covers everything in a bit more detail. Please let me know if anything is unclear or could be phrased better.

Chart pages include links to all your charts & a link where you can download a .csv file of the data but remember: playing with spreadsheets is no substitute for actual practice!

#NewFeature

This has been on the to do list since October 2013 so nice to finally get this sorted!

Cedric Lackpot - - Parent

<looks at post>

<checks timestamp>

Yep, Tuesday evening!

Orinoco -

Sock puppet management! There are a few club/event specific accounts on the Edge now. If you are in charge of one of these accounts you can now link it to your personal account to make posting easier.

Go to your settings page, under 'Other setting pages' you will now find a link to 'Manage alias accounts'. To add an alias enter the username & password of the other account then click 'Add new alias'. You will now find a set of radio buttons on the main new post form where you can select which user you wish to post as, meaning no more logging in & out of different accounts.


Alias accounts only work one way. Consider 3 accounts:

  • A: Your personal account
  • B: A friend's personal account
  • C: An account for an event you are organising

You add C as an alias to your account A so you can easily post announcements about your event.

You share C's login details with B who also sets up C as an alias so that they can post announcements too.

Both A and B can post as C.

B will NOT be able to log in as C and post as A.


Isn't that fantastic Marvin?

#NewFeature

Marvin - - Parent

No.

Norbi - - Parent

Well look at that, it was already set up! Magic. Cheers, that's going to save time.

Do my C accounts get unread direct reply notifications on the site?
And, is it possible to get an email to my A account address, if someone replies to my C account post?

Orinoco - - Parent

Not at the moment, but I'll add it to the list of things that the new notifications system needs to handle.

In the meantime does your C account have auto forwarding abilities?

Norbi - - Parent

It does now! Apparently it was off, and it also took me a while to find the option. I'm obviously blind.

Orinoco -

You can now block individual threads. At the top of the first post of each thread, & after the details of each thread on the index page you will find a new "Ignore this thread" link.

To unblock a thread go to Settings > Other Settings pages > Manage blocked users and threads.


I am sorry for the general shitty vibe of the site recently. Thanks for sticking with us.

#NewFeature

Monte - - Parent

If you think I am responsible for the general shitty vibe of the site recently I am happy to stop posting and leave the site. I don't want to piss on your bonfire Orin. I know you put a lot of hard work into it.

Orinoco - - Parent

I don't want anyone to leave, you know that. I'm not unhappy about you questioning me, I admit I was a bit irked by the timing of your thread which was less than ideal for me but there was no way you could've known about that so I certainly can't & don't hold it against you.

On the positive side, recent events has made me focus on tightening up the self moderation tools which I think leaves this site a better place than it was before which I'm very pleased with.

Thanks for your appreciation.

Monte - - Parent

But if you think my thread is making people stay away from the site, self exile seems to be my only honourable course of action.

Monte - - Parent

Before I keep my promise to stop posting I feel an explanation of why I started the offending thread is required to ensure there are no hard feelings between myself and many jugglers I have valued as friends for a long time now.

Personally the best justification was Ethan's thread thanking me for standing up for him and his admission that exclusion from the site had left him angry and bitter and that the ensuing debate had made him re-think his attitude and made him try harder to think before he posted in the future.

Now I realise this is not good enough for some people who expressed that they found it tedious or tiring to wade through. For these people I would just like to ask them if they would feel differently were they to have been excluded for some petulant remark they had made in the heat of the moment and which they were not afforded the chance to say sorry or explain why they behaved in such a way. Ethan was eventually given the chance and I think most of us would say he made a very good job of explaining and apologising for his actions.

Some members (LP for example) have wondered why I spent so much energy on this thread instead of talking about juggling. A valid question which I will try to answer. I have been part of the juggling community for over 20 years now and have already had discussions about most juggling matters and I am now at the point where I believe juggling is like sex- much more fun to do than talk about. Why then am I even on this site? Short answer because rec.juggling no longer really exists. Long answer because after 20 years most of my best and most valued friends are from the juggling community and not wanting to be on facebook this is a good way of chatting to them between conventions or other social gatherings.

I hope this goes some way towards explaining why I caused " a shitty vibe" on Orin's baby.

Now I know certain people will be glad to know I am shutting the f@&k up but I hope at least some of you will miss my attempts at humour or my willingness to defend a point of principle.

I will continue to lurk in the background and will of course keep you informed about my baby BBU if anything important crops up but I will refrain from posting anything else for fear of driving away current or possible future members.

Thank you and goodbye

Monte

Mike Moore - - Parent

"I hope at least some of you will miss my attempts at humour or my willingness to defend a point of principle."

At least one. Sorry to see you go.

Little Paul - - Parent

You know, when Orin said to me (in another channel) that we hadn't had a good flounce in ages and were probably die one...

I truly expected the next flounce to come from Ethan, not from you :P

8/10 for style

Monte - - Parent

Didn't Jason Garfield once say

"it's no sport if you have to mark it for style"

Monte - - Parent

Is there a symbol for a rhetorical question mark?

Orinoco - - Parent

Oh good grief. I don't know why you think this is about you. Truth is a lot of the shitty vibe hasn't happened directly on this site but on other channels that you are not involved in. I know my frustrations at having to deal with all that have been creeping onto this site which was what I was apologising for.

All I want to do is move on.

You are welcome back any time.

Monte - - Parent

Well I guess because I asked twice (indirectly I'll admit) If you thought I was responsible. I took you not answering to be a diplomatic yes.

But # I guess assume makes an ass of u and me.

Orinoco - - Parent

Unfortunately I can't always reply to everything straight away. I've got a lot on at the moment, & contrary to popular belief I do go out occasionally!

You know who you've worn out, they are fully entitled to be so if they wish, & you've explained why you felt your actions were justified. It's entirely up to you how or indeed if you modify what you post in future for those people. Choosing exile strikes me as an extreme response.

Gutted that you posted before I could get my flounce clock in place. Did anyone have 14 hours 27 minutes?

Monte - - Parent

Not sure how to close my account though you would have to explain how I do it.

Orinoco - - Parent

No one is allowed to leave. Ever.

pumpkineater23 - - Parent

Seriously

more

blocking?

What

I

want

to

know

is

how

do

I

block

the

blockers?

shawnlives - - Parent

That felt good.

The Void - - Parent

The list view needs a hyphen or comma or something between "Ignore this thread" and "Mark thread as read", for readability, IMO.

lukeburrage - - Parent

Ironically, if someone you have blocked begins a thread, the option to ignore the thread isn't available, as the link is only on the first post, and that is hidden.

Orinoco - - Parent

Very good point. Not the case any more.

Orinoco -

Posting a link to a Tweet on the Edge now makes auto-embedding magic happen.

"Citing a quotation doesn't necessarily make it true or interesting." - The Void.
— The Void (@TheVoidTLMB) October 21, 2015


#NewFeature

Oh, yeah, that's a good point. Hashtags within the Tweet will link to Twitter, those outside will link to the Edge.

Ethan - - Parent

BAWESOME!!!

The Void - - Parent

That's the tweet I was going to test-post, so it must be true. ;-)
Alright, let's have a go of a picture tweet too....
Good clickers! MoNKe started off well tonight. Onwards! #kendama #けん玉 http://t.co/dNuPTbIBkJ >Events>MonthlyMondays pic.twitter.com/eCDTtRzEMF
— The Void (@TheVoidTLMB) October 12, 2015

Ethan - - Parent

Hey orin! While we are still talking about new stuff........I just had an idea!!! For once in my life;) alright here it is...

Imagine that in-between the records and the logs section links on the top of the page, there is a section that says "tricks", or something like that. And when you click on it, you are taken to a page where you can post boss tricks, like 7 up 1080s connected to back-crosses.....

And taking it a step further, you could have a rating system. So if you like somebody’s trick, you can give it 5 stars........."phew" I got it out of my brain before I forgot it.........What do you say orin?? Bad idea, good idea, boss idea, DISGUSTING idea??

Ethan - - Parent

Bawesome idea?

Orinoco - - Parent

A section to vote on who has the best imaginary trick? I'm going to give that one a miss...

Ethan - - Parent

ha ha! by posts I mean videos;)

Ethan - - Parent

Like, you post a video of you doing the trick..........An imaginary trick would be cool though;)

Orinoco - - Parent

In which case sounds exactly like the records section.

The Void - - Parent

I'm pretty sure that a link to juggling.tv would achieve exactly what you want. You can upload videos of awesome tricks there, and people can vote on them, and add comments too.

Ethan - - Parent

now, I WOULD use JTV.......but I'm not patient enough to go through the uploading process........

The Void - - Parent

Well, this has veered nicely off-topic, hasn't it?

So, do you mean uploading videos (to anywhere) generally? Or is there something specific about JTV that you find difficult? If it's the upload time, then that's dependant on your file size and internet connection, not the website in question. Compressing can ultimately often save you time: http://juggling.tv/compress.php *

* Wow, VidZap 8.3 is really behind schedule.

Ethan - - Parent

I think my main problem is that I don't compress my videos. I'm not patient enough to go through one more stupid process.........I like to get things done FAST with no nonsense.....

Alright here are my problems with JTV:

1. I don't like having to "Select 1 to 3 Style Channels for your video" and "Select 1 to 3 Prop Channels for your video."

2. I don't like not being able to see that uploading process. I like being able to see if it's 3%, 43% or 90% uploaded.

3. I wish there was a way to upload videos off of youtube........for example, the other day I wanted to upload some of my youtube videos to JTV but I couldn't find a way to do it.....

The Void - - Parent

Okay, well....

1. That's a minimum of 2 clicks. Is it really that time-consuming? These are there to help make JTV more organised, which means a) YOU will be better able to find videos, and b) other people will be more likely/able to find YOUR videos. Sorry, we won't be changing this.

2. Okay, there's a problem here. We have an upload progress bar! If you are on iOS 6 (invisible) or iOS 7 (non-progressing), it doesn't work properly. From iOS 8, it's working fine. If you're not on those platforms, please tell us what platform/browser you are on. The JTV Quality Controller is on the end of
qc @ juggling . tv

3. Directly? No, for all sorts of reasons. But you could use a ripper/downloader/browser extension to grab the highest resolution mp4 file that YT uses, and then upload that to JTV. But given your point 1, I suspect you won't go for that. ;-)

Stephen Meschke - - Parent

In regards to point #3:
Downloading videos from Youtube is easy, as long as you uploaded the video:
Youtube --> creator studio --> video manager --> select 'Download MP4' from edit dropdown clickbox

The Void - - Parent

Oh yes, I should have known that, thanks.

Orinoco - - Parent

I've just started playing around with Twitter a bit more. If that's your thing please follow my personal account @JonRelf so I can find you & you can help show me around. I've also set up @JugglingEdge but don't know what to do with it yet.

The Void - - Parent

Well, you could auto post "New #juggling event added to The Juggling Edge: [link to event page]". And how about the same for every new record?

Orinoco - - Parent

I've just plugged the latest events feed into http://twitterfeed.com/. Let's see how that works.

And how about the same for every new record?

I'd like to attract followers.

The Void - - Parent

Cool. I've found IFTTT.com is more tweakable, should you need it.

Orinoco - - Parent

Thanks for the tip, the first run through didn't work very well!

Orinoco -

New home page!

I've hated the home page on the Edge since the very beginning. Now that the site has matured quite a bit & less things are breaking (you keep quiet Mïark) I've been spending more time looking at how the site gets used. I've been recording precisely what gets clicked from the home page for a while now & I've been very surprised with how little of it is used. So over the past few days I've been hacking away a lot of cruft, refactoring bits & pieces all over the place & of course making stuff up as I go along leaving us with a smaller, simpler & much faster default home page.

Points of note:

Things now line up! Woohoo!

Content from blocked users will no longer be shown.

I've done away with all the 'Latest...' sections except the all encompassing 'Latest Activity' section. All they did was duplicate content & was more to help get content indexed more quickly, which is not a problem I need to solve anymore.

For lurkers the log in form has been removed from all pages (was rarely used & then only from 2 pages) & the settings link has also been removed from the top menu (Seriously? Only 0.2% of clicks? Does no one else enjoy tinkering?!) which removes a lot of clutter.

For those that do tinker the settings link is still available on the homepage under 'My Account' & now also on you profile page if you choose to hide the My Account section. All the sections removed from the default view are still there, plus there's a new section available: 'Add Content', which has links to create a new thread, event, club & log entry.

The old top-to-bottom-left-to-right ordering of sections is now left-to-right-top-to-bottom, so if you had set up a custom layout everything will still be there but will be a bit muddled up, sorry!1 Also note the 'Latest Activity' section is twice the height of all the others. You're smart, you'll work it out.

The 'Change site appearance' & 'Change title image' pages have been merged into one.

Did no one notice me yo-yoing between using 'My' & 'Your' all over the place? Why didn't anyone pull me up on that?

Lots of unused links have disappeared from the home page & have been chucked in the help section.


#NewFeature #LetTheHateBegin


1 But let's face it you must be used to that by now.

The Void - - Parent

To be honest, I only ever go to the Home page for the link to Meta, so I'm totally unaffected.
Still, well done.

Little Paul - - Parent

There's a home page?

Orinoco - - Parent

For anyone who is confused & needs a link to the home page it can be found here: http://jugglingedge.com

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Same here.. My bookmarks link me directly to the small talk page...

Brook Roberts - - Parent

I just recently set up a direct link on my phone to the juggling edge records page.

Adrian G - - Parent

I'm in the same position but use RSS for meta so never go to the home page at all... That said it does look less clutered than previously.

I think under my profile is where I'd expect to find settings anyway so I'm fine with that. As for tinkering, I did play around with it but was happy with the google menu option so just stuck with that and haven't looked at it since :P

Ethan - - Parent

wow........

Orinoco -

Blocking a user now hides log & record content. Go to a user's profile & click, "Block this user"

That is all.

#NewFeature

Mike Moore - - Parent

I'm curious: was there a request for this feature? Something you thought would be useful now, or in the future?

Orinoco - - Parent

There have been 3 requests for this feature, & I feel that given my general belief that people should moderate themselves I think it's important that I give people the tools to do so. The log & records sections have both grown in popularity, & are not far off being used as much as the forum so I thought it was time I extended the block function to cover them.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Oops, I misread: I thought this was the introduction of a blocking feature, not an extension. If I had a nickel for every feature I was unaware of...

(To be clear, I am aware that these features are documented, and my ignorance is due to me not reading them, not any fault of our God Emperor)

Orinoco - - Parent

Actually I don't think the block feature is documented anywhere!

Little Paul - - Parent

Interesting, made me check a bit of the edge I don't check very often... interesting change to the No.2 spot

Orinoco - - Parent

:)

Orinoco - - Parent

Ooh, lots of interesting changes yesterday, more so at the bottom.

peterbone - - Parent

What list are we talking about?

Little Paul - - Parent

Supersecretsquirrelist.

Ethan - - Parent

yes!! tell us!!

Little Paul - - Parent

I think the change at the top is amusing me most.

Ethan - - Parent

ok fine. Don't tell us.

Ethan - - Parent

what's different about it???

Ethan - - Parent

cool change.......It might be useful....... ;)

varkor - - Parent

Wait, Orinoco, where have all your records gone?

Orinoco - - Parent

Narnia.

pumpkineater23 - - Parent

Would only allowing records to be listed if there is video evidence be a good idea? Isn't that (kind of) what Guinness do - provide some kind of proof? The stuff that doesn't have video evidence could be listed separately in a 'Personal Best' chart. The records section seems (rightly) competitive!

peterbone - - Parent

No. I don't like that idea. The feature is for unofficial records like the original bogleg. Bogleg did have a voting system though. If you didn't believe someone's record you could vote it down.

pumpkineater23 - - Parent

Genuinely interested to know why you don't think it's a good idea? Is it because many jugglers might not have a camera there when they break records? Surely if someone is trying to break records it would be wise to film it. Or is it something else? Personally I find it difficult juggling in front of a camera - is that it? If it's unofficial then it's not really setting a record, it's just a claim.

peterbone - - Parent

I think we interpret the records section differently. For me they are personal records. I put them there to chart my progress for various tricks and to motivate myself. I'm not concerned about whether people believe them or not and I'm not really bothered when I see records of other people that I don't believe. They're only cheating themselves. For official numbers records we have JISCON. There's also already a way to link to videos from a record here if you feel the need to prove yourself.

Brook Roberts - - Parent

Agree, most of my 'records' are personal bests, mostly unimpressive, and done to chart progress/motivate myself. I couldn't be bothered with videoing myself, and with maybe a couple of exceptions, the videos would be of basically no interest to anyone.

Ethan - - Parent

I think what you are suggesting is a good idea. Only allowing records with video evidence would make things more official and seem more legit..........However what Peterbone is saying sounds good as well....

perhaps it is time for a change;) what do you say Orin? Maybe it would help.......

PipJim - - Parent

As someone who uses the site primarily for tracking records, I wouldn't like for there to be a divide between the videoed and non-videoed records. For me this is a fun site where you can track your progress against yourself and others without any delusions that you're setting official world records or anything. I suspect I'd stop posting records if I had to post videos alongside them to validate them here.

That said, it is a quite a frustration/irritation for me when some of the records posted are so wildly out of line with all the available supporting evidence that they're almost impossible to believe. No prizes for guessing which records I'm referring to...

I know I could now block those records from view but that would probably annoy me more as I'd know they were still there.

Ultimately the simple solution to the problem is one that only you can provide Ethan - either post the video evidence you have of your most impressive records or remove all the records you've made up....

Ethan - - Parent

So what your saying is only "I" have to post videos of my god damn records and nobody else has to?? Is that what your saying??? Personally I think that's BS......

If you don't think I'm legit, then bring it up with Orin.........Bring it up to my freaking face and stop beating around the bush...........Just say it, "Ethan, your a fake"...........Which I am not, but just say it like it is!!

All you grumpy old jugglers who sit around and hate on me are what brings this site down. I view this site as a SUPPORTIVE juggling community. Not a eat you alive and spit you out community!!

Let me tell you. I work hard. All day I basically do nothing but juggle. I WORK! I have wasted friendships, I have wasted opportunities, all because I work hard to be THE best......And now you're telling me that I am a fake????

good day to you sir.

Little Paul - - Parent

I would just like to add that I'm finding this whole thread hilarious

Orinoco - - Parent

Yep, some true comedy gold in here!

I completely agree with PipJim's take on the records section. Requiring video evidence is too much to ask & will kill people's involvement pretty quick. Watching countless hours of mind numbing endurance runs to verify a record is certainly not my idea of fun. I certainly have no interest or intention to put myself through that kind of torture, & I wouldn't expect anyone else to either. There is a reason why JISCON limit their tracking to base patterns.

Ethan, I don't think that it is your records that are causing friction, but the way you treat other people. You regularly offer video evidence on request. There have been multiple requests that I know you've seen because you keep searching the forum for your name. Have you provided any of these videos? Your method of posting records that are only high enough to get the top spot but not necessarily your true record is thoroughly unsporting. You talk about the community being supportive, but you seem to treat everyone as an opponent to be ground into dust. Then recently there was the way you treated those girls who stopped to watch you. In response I think people are attacking your records because that is what you appear to hold most dear. I believe you are an amazing juggler but if you can't connect with people every minute of all that hard work you've put in will be wasted.

So I think everyone should have a nice cup of tea & a sit down.


Mïark's 100 catches of 3 teapots. That's got to be made up, right?

Ethan - - Parent

I will try my hardest to be a better person...........It just annoys me that people seem to be hating on me constantly, they seem to always think I lie .........Any way.........

A cup of tea would be nice..........And yeah.......Who even has 3 teapots??? Oh yeah, I forgot, the British;) strange people the Brits;)

Mïark - - Parent

Who even has 3 teapots???

Our juggling club has 15 teapots in all different shapes and sizes (and materials) so you can choose the most appropriate one for the pot of tea you are making.

And yes, my record was achieved using different sized teapots.

Ethan - - Parent

Is it weird that when I drink tea I heat it up to 120 F then put 3 things of sugar in it? That's only with English breakfast tea though.........ahhhhh......English breakfast tea........I'm half English, so every other year or so, I go to England. And the last time I was in London, I discovered the beauty of English breakfast tea. mmmmmmmm.....The taste.........I can almost smell it..........The hotel I was staying at had like 30 tea bags on the dresser.......I had probably at least 4 cups a day.........ahhhhh........those were good days........

Mïark - - Parent

120 F ‽‽ I wouldn't make coffee in water that cold!

You need about 200 F for making tea (slightly lower temperature for delicate teas).

Mïark - - Parent

Next time you are in England, come to a juggling convention and we can enjoy a cup of tea that isn't stone cold.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Hi, Ethan,
there's been some friendly requests on your claims on rather outstanding skills .. in only very few among these requests, I read unbelief was prior, which maybe was or maybe could be read as offensive regarding also how much work lies in achieving such outstanding tricks .. .. . . .. .

.. .. " A tree that falls, makes more riot, than a wood that grows."
                [chinese saying]

(or: One plane that crashes will make it to the news around the globe, while hundreds of thousands of succeeded landings won't)
.. will say: one single ``attack´´ not explicitly disagreed to by the rest of the community doesn't mean, "everyone" is against you! I think - or I hope and believe - most are with you in essence, cherishing a great young juggler among them here, like I do.

7b_wizard - - Parent

° "read as being offensive regarding how much work .. [a.s.o.]" .. then being confronted with disbelief °

pumpkineater23 - - Parent

"Mïark's 100 catches of 3 teapots. That's got to be made up, right?"

I was wondering about that a couple of days ago. Are the teapots spun and then caught with the handle or thrown like a ball with the base of the teapot?

Little Paul - - Parent

and what type of chocolate were they made from?

Chris - - Parent

Irrelevant. Miark juggles only clubs.

Mïark - - Parent

Hey! My teapot juggling record is genuine! I even had witnesses (almost - well the other members of the juggling club did wonder why I was making quite so much noise in the kitchen when I was supposed to be making tea).
The tea pots were spun and most of the catches were by the handle, I used stainless steel teapots which had hinged lids that kept noisily flapping open and shut.
Even if someone does manage to get 101 catches I have held this record for over 2 years - so there!!

Mike Moore - - Parent

Serious question: What has stopped you from posting videos? This isn't the first time people have given you a hard time about your posted records, and some of them even say "Video upon request". There are some I'd really like to see (in particular, I think the 5b cascade under the legs would look amazing).

Brook Roberts - - Parent

He has a video on his youtube channel. I suspect that is one of the main factors in peoples doubts of his records.

Scott Seltzer - - Parent

I don't know anything about you, Ethan, nor about the records section, or the specific records in question. But as a member of the (mostly defunct) JISCON, I can suggest that we had a loophole for someone who couldn't provide evidence of their claim. If you could even post a video that is close-ish, that would show that you likely have the capability in question, then that might help your image here.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Yeah, .. You can't entirely record your practise, then pick out the records when they happen .. and confirming a record with then camera running is another thing.

JackJuggles - - Parent

Well when you posted that 9 ball reverse cascade record that you claimed to have a video of, the 9 ball reverse cascade WORLD record says you claimed to have 25 catches. Why didn't you show them the video?

peterbone - - Parent

I'm guessing that he's planning a montage video of all his hard tricks. He's deliberately encouraging doubters now so that he can feel even better when he releases the video.

pumpkineater23 - - Parent

"For me this is a fun site where you can track your progress against yourself and others without any delusions that you're setting official world records or anything".

I can see what you mean there. I suppose it's just the word 'Records' that makes me think it should be an official thing. 'Progress' then seems a more suitable word.

sheneron - - Parent

Agree with PipJim.

I would never want to be forced to upload video evidence, as my records will primarily be for my personal tracking. However, I do like having an _honest_ comparison of other people and hate the fact that the records are so easily exploitable.

I think the voting thing Peter mentioned could be a nice feature. It would at least be interesting.

Or, there could be non-official claim tracking (basically the current without the leaderboards) as well as public official records -- a top-10 true records leader board (for the different tricks) that require video evidence.

The current solution of blocking a user may be useful, but it is irrelevant to the false claims problem, which I do think needs to be addressed.

Ethan - - Parent

Why would anybody even want to make false record claims? If you were a spammer then why would you randomly target a juggling site? It seems strange. If I were a fake, then I must be the best fake and lier in the world.....I must be an insane master of psychology and human mind manipulation.............It is completely stupid to think that people would go threw the longish sign up process just to mess with a juggling site.........And then they would have to make a fake personal website and a fake youtube channel and call themselves "Ethan"..............That would be REALLY difficult......And kind of insane.........

But I do think that anybody who BEATS a record should have to post a video.

sheneron - - Parent

I doubt anyone would specifically seek to troll a juggling site, but its entirely plausible that people would not be fully honest especially if they wanted to top out the record boards. People have done crazier things to top a leaderboard. That's why I agree with you that their should be a true records (not claims) boards with X (X=5? 10?) number of spots that require video evidence to hold.

FWIW, I never claimed you were a fake (and I certainly do believe you are Ethan). I do, however, find it hard to believe that all your records are genuine. It would be easy to silence the doubters; all you would have to do is post the video of some of your records that have "video[s] if wanted". It does seem they are wanted by several people and I would certainly enjoy watching the impressive feats myself.

The Void - - Parent

Grammar is sometime vital: There's a world of difference between
"and I certainly do believe you are, Ethan" and
"and I certainly do believe you are 'Ethan' ".
I'm pretty sure you mean the latter, sheneron.

I have no interest or POV on the records/verrification issue.
Stay nice, everyone. :-)

The Void - - Parent

*verification

sheneron - - Parent

What a world of difference a single comma can make. ;)

Little Paul - - Parent

"Billy helped his uncle Jack off his horse"

PipJim - - Parent

Firstly I am sorry for being a grumpy old juggler and massive cynic.

Secondly I don't think anyone doubts you are a juggler. You clearly are and a half decent one at that.

The reason for my doubt is that your progress is the most exceptional I've ever seen in my 10 years of juggling. To go from some 20 odd catches of 7 to 60 catches of 8 in the space of a week is borderline unbelievable given everything I've seen previously.

As I mentioned some time back I would actually love if someone were making that kind of progress and it would put you up there among a list of jugglers capable of going on to push the boundaries of what's been achieved in juggling.

My interest in juggling at the very top level is purely academic. I love to see people coming through and pushing things forward. I just want to physically see it at that level rather then trust in the word of the Internet (who might be motivated say by being able to claim multiple world records on their website in order to generate custom)

If I doubt you incorrectly I can only apologise. My mind is just conditioned to question the improbable, and your records are improbable whether they're entirely genuine or not

I'll furnish you with drink and cake by way of an apology when I make it to America and the ija if it turns out you are simply a very talented young juggler and I'm just a grumpy old sod.

Just excuse an old man the right to ask for (existing) evidence when you claim something extraordinary.

peterbone - - Parent

If someone has 20 catches of 7 balls listed, it doesn't mean they haven't done more. I think it's possible that Ethan may only be updating records if he can get the top spot. His primary purpose seems to be a competitive one rather than charting his own progress, and I think that's fine. People can interpret the records feature however they wish. I do have some doubts about Ethan's records as well, but I don't believe he would completely make them up. For example, he has 8 catches of cc88441, which I assume he did by doing one cycle, doing another high throw and then collecting. I wouldn't count that as 8 catches, but there aren't any rules to say that you shouldn't. Likewise there aren't any rules to say that you shouldn't juggle playing cards by screwing them up into balls (not that he would do that either - I'm just making a point).

PipJim - - Parent

Yes fair point re. the records listed not necessarily reflecting what you're capable of or your genuine best. However, some of Ethan's records are wildly out of kilter with all the other evidence currently made available - eg. his Youtube channel videos, his failure post videos he claims to have despite repeated requests and volunteering to post them, his other records listed here, the speed with which he's able to beat every record that's improved upon by another user, the celebrations of a 3 ball "world record" but no acknowledgement of a 9 ball one despite it being pointed out to him twice and claiming to have it on video, his claim that as well as juggling full time he's also a runner of exceptional pedigree and, more generally, just my existing experience of seeing what other jugglers can do.

I'm not saying these things are impossible, but they do seem unlikely. Much as I don't like to doubt people, I've seen enough made up stuff on the internet to make me doubt most things that seem improbable until I see evidence to the contary. I don't like to be such a cynic, but I just can't help it.

Ethan - - Parent

Thanks........I'll take all of that as a complement.......

PipJim - - Parent

"I'll take all of that as a complement......."

You're right Ethan, you should take what I say as a complement. Assuming they're true, I find some of your feats pretty impressive. The prime reason for my doubts are the exceptional nature of your postings and I think you should be proud of what you've achieved (assuming you've achieved it of course ;) ).

The fact I find it hard to believe you is based on my other experiences, upbringing and the way I think. The fault is mine (and probably society's more generally). It's not because I'm hating on you, nor a reflection on you personally, it's only really an indication of how impressive your posted records are. I wouldn't even think of doubting your records if they were boringly average.

pumpkineater23 - - Parent

I think it's highly unlikely that he would be making anything up.. unless of course he's an insane master of psychology and human mind manipulation.

Ethan - - Parent

thank you...........wait..........;)

peterbone - - Parent

Maybe he likes to be disbelieved because it makes his achievements feel all the more difficult. I'm just saying that he could well have done all that he's said he's done. There's also the possibility that he hasn't. I did find it strange that he beat one of my records less than 5 minutes after I beat his and the fact that it was the middle of the night in the US, where I believe he lives. However, he could have beaten it previously and was waiting for me to beat his previous record before putting his new record.

Ethan - - Parent

Hell yeah!!! All of you haters just make me better;)

And It was like 5:00 in the morning when I beat your record.........yeah yeah......I wake up too early.....today was probably the latest I have ever woken up since I joined this site! You here that Orin?!? Your site is causing me to be sleep deprived!!! I just sit in bed at night and think about what I would do if Ilia Poliakov beats one of my "Records"...........

Little Paul - - Parent

I'd been assuming that something like this is going on[1]:

Juggler A - I can do 10 catches of $trick - that's the record
Juggler B - I've got 80 catches of $trick in practice, but I'm not going to put that in as my record, I'll put it in as 15 catches
Juggler C - I've just got 16 catches
Juggler B - I'll put mine in as 20 catches as soon as I've seen the record, knowing that's still well under my personal best - but it's enough to claim the record.

That's the only legit way I can picture someone being able to trounce someone's record super fast.

[1] I say that as though I'm even a tiny bit interested in the records section ;)

Ethan - - Parent

Correct.

Little Paul - - Parent

In which case - I'm genuinely interested to know - what's in it for you?

Why not just put your true records out there? You'll still claim the top spot for all of them and you'll take away all the negativity generated by the churn.

PipJim - - Parent

Fair enough. It seems a strange and unsporting way to post records, but to each their own.

I'm afraid I can only continue to disbelieve some of your claims though until you provide the evidence you've offered up many times.

Little Paul - - Parent

I think the problem with providing evidence is that if there is evidence of 80 catches but the record claimed is 25 catches - no video of that 25 catch run exists because it wasn't a 25 catch run, it was an 80 catch run.

So he can't provide the evidence without also revealing his true record - and then what would happen? Someone might beat that and he wouldn't be able to better it.

Ethan - - Parent

That has been a problem........

gantenbein - - Parent

Why not just cut the clip after 25 catches?
People will see/suspect that it's been going on after that, but they wouldn't be able to guess for how long ...

Ethan - - Parent

Then you would have to go through all the trouble to cut the video in a video editor and then download the thing back onto Youtube.......Or onto JTV......I still haven't quite mastered putting stuff onto JTV, it doesn't appear that it shows how long you have until it's done uploading. And then I get impatient and exit off of JTV and start shouting at my computer........fun times;)

Ethan - - Parent

that's weird........I didn't know it linked JTV.......

sheneron - - Parent

Then why would you put "video if wanted" on many of your records? Clearly you don't have most of the videos or are not willing to share them. You should stop posting that comment as it is very misleading.

7b_wizard - - Parent

It's common for world record holders to do just as much necessary to grant the record .. Isinbayeva jumping pole over 5.03 (or whatever was necessary), Gatto asking the kids into the camera doing his 7b endurance record: "How much to go?" .. it's their capital (/asset / resource) and - I find - legitimate to `use´ it as benefit out their hard work.

emilyw - - Parent

That does sound like it would be an extremely frustrating experience for juggler C.

As I have previously said to small children, "this game is only a fun game if everyone who's playing thinks it's fun!" - I meant it about tickle fights, but it applies to playing games in the records section also. Eventually that kid who WILL NOT STOP tickling people ends up with no friends.

There are plenty of other fun things to do after all.

peterbone - - Parent

This thread reminds me of the story of Richard Simpson in the climbing community.

http://climbingnarc.com/2010/12/rich-simpson-the-burden-of-proof/

In short a lot of his claims came into question and he was dropped by his sponsors, despite the fact that everyone knew he was a very strong climber. People asked for video evidence, which wasn't provided.

Ethan - - Parent

hmmm interesting.......

Julius - - Parent

There seems to be a very easy compromise: give the option to provide a link to video evidence for your record, as well as the option to display only records with provided video evidence.

Orinoco - - Parent

Great if you like Rick Astley.

Thanar - - Parent

As a frequent editor of the Juggle Wiki on the topic of world records, and this is the option that helps us the most. The Juggle Wiki tracks (mostly endurance) records in many categories, and we do require publicly available video evidence (or validation by a reputable body, such as Guinness, JISCON, etc.). But we also list "claims" which are normally gleaned from forum posts and databases such as the one here at The Juggling Edge.

If the database here were stripped down to just records with video evidence, we would have more trouble finding such claims. But having a significant number of jugglers (optionally) posting links to video evidence would also help, especially when we decide to start tracking records for a trick and need to find the video out there of the best run.

I encourage all jugglers to browse through the existing Juggle Wiki records, find some that you can beat, and video yourself beating them! I've sponsored a few "Juggling World Record Challenges" at IJA/WJF a few years back. If there's enough interest I'd be willing to do another and put up some prize money to encourage record-breaking.

Mike Moore - - Parent

"I encourage all jugglers to browse through the existing Juggle Wiki records, find some that you can beat, and video yourself beating them! I've sponsored a few "Juggling World Record Challenges" at IJA/WJF a few years back. If there's enough interest I'd be willing to do another and put up some prize money to encourage record-breaking."

I loved that at the IJA in 2013, it was lots of fun to try things I wouldn't have otherwise worked on.

Orinoco - - Parent

Hi Thanar, welcome to the Edge!

Ameron Rosvall - - Parent

Nice thread.

Hi Thanar,

I didn't realize it at the time, but my latest 4 clubs with balance record seems to be a world record, according to the juggle wiki.

https://youtu.be/vVMYOPaQgmc

peterbone - - Parent

That's awesome. I give up now that you've taken it into the realm of endurance.

View older threads

Subscribe to this forum via RSS
1 article per branch
1 article per post

Green Eggs reports