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7b_wizard -

Handedness poll

  1. I have one strong hand. My other hand is there for symmetry or counterweight only :o)
  2. I have clearly a strong hand for everything, but my weak hand ain't that bad either.
  3. I have clearly a generally stronger hand, but it depends on what I'm cutting, sewing, using tools, opening a bottle or lid, writing, throwing, folding, brushing, hold a cup, turn pages of a book, make a knot, draw a zipper, hold a phone, write sms.   Some things are better with one, some with the other hand. Or also like lefthanders of necessity using righthander's tools.
  4. I am a "specific" bothhander. I couldn't do better with the respective other hand (even with lefthander's tools). I have no generally stronger hand but in case for this or that specific ado.
  5. I am bothhanded. My both hands are equally active doing almost everything alikely well.
  6. other.

@ bothhanders - Do you think being bothhanded gives you an edge [=advantage] at juggling?
@ all - Does juggling maybe favor bothhanders a bit?

This is a competition thread which ran from 6th Feb 2016 to 27th Feb 2016. View results.

7b_wizard - - Parent

= bothhanded \ weakhd'd poll [title]

7b_wizard - - Parent

handedness poll soon closing

The Void - - Parent

About 2.5 for me. I deal cards left-handed, and the ocassional juggling trick, if I think about it, I do the "hard" way.

Stephen Meschke - - Parent

This poll applies most to the 6 ball asynchronous fountain, also 5b and 7b cascade.

When I started 6b my LH throws were lower and faster than my RH, but after practicing the patter for some time the hands feel the exact same. Working on symmetry has helped, but it's still a problem. My right wrist flexes 40° and my left wrist flexes 10° (watch at 60fps). I get more ball speed and less accuracy from my RH. My LH has a shorter dwell time.

James Hennigan - - Parent

My right hand was naturally better when I started, but I've always made sure to learn tricks on both sides, so now my hands are equal when it comes to juggling. The one exception is the halfshower, which I've decided to only learn on the right side.

Mike Moore - - Parent

I'm working on switching handedness in my daily life. My coworker said I was left handed the other day, so progress is being made!

Daniel Simu - - Parent

I used to switch too, for the purpose of practicing (brushing teeth, cutting food). In juggling I do quite fine with my bad hand, but that is the result of a lot of practice, not natural ability. Because of a terrible injury I now also lack a lot of strength in my off hand compared to my good one, so I rate myself option "1".

Marvin - - Parent

This poll has now ended. The results are:

  1.   I have one strong hand. My other hand is there for symmetry or counterweight only :o) (3 votes)
  2.   I have clearly a strong hand for everything, but my weak hand ain't that bad either. (6 votes)
  3.   I have clearly a generally stronger hand, but it depends on what I'm cutting, sewing, using tools, opening a bottle or lid, writing, throwing, folding, brushing, hold a cup, turn pages of a book, make a knot, draw a zipper, hold a phone, write sms.   Some things are better with one, some with the other hand. Or also like lefthanders of necessity using righthander's tools. (6 votes)
  4.   I am a "specific" bothhander. I couldn't do better with the respective other hand (even with lefthander's tools). I have no generally stronger hand but in case for this or that specific ado. (1 vote)
  5.   I am bothhanded. My both hands are equally active doing almost everything alikely well. (0 votes)
  6.   other. (0 votes)

7b_wizard - - Parent

ng'kay, thx 4 voting! Thx Marvin! :o) .. Seems, the poll didn't `fish´ any 100% bothhander. So, looks like most of us get along with stronghand-weakhand juggling, casually monitoring weakhand's being behind some and needing special attention.

Yet, Sergei Ignatov sen.'s statement:
When you activate your weak hand, everything is possible.
stays burnt into my mind and I will casually work on weakhand selves and handle stuff with my weakhand in daily life until I feel it's emancipated some.

I am somewhat surprised, though, cos I'd really expected naturally more bothhanders juggling for reasons of symmetry being an issue.

david - - Parent

I think I throw more accurately with my right hand and catch more reliably with my left hand. It's easier to notice when passing.

Mats1 -

Attempt no.2: What are some good patterns for club passing with 4-8 people?

Poll: The best number of people to pass with (from options on this list)?

  1. 4
  2. 5
  3. 6
  4. 7
  5. 8

This is a competition thread which ran from 18th Dec 2015 to 25th Dec 2015. View results.

Richard Loxley - - Parent

The best number to pass with is the number of passers you have available at the time :-)

I'm all for inclusivity!

Daniel Simu - - Parent

With less passers, there is a smaller chance of error, and thus you can work on more difficult/complicated stuff! Therefore I voted 4 but actually I mean 2.. ;)


Once you've decided to go with group passing... I totally agree with Richard! Whoever joins, the more the merrier :)


Flexible patterns, where it is easy to include more people:

Circle: passing to your neighbours (3+, gets a bit harder with more people as the angle gets wider)
Circle: passing to the person opposite side (5+, gets harder with every extra person as the distances increase)
W shape. Or with many people a VVVVVVV shape (3+)
A couple more patterns come to mind, but I don't know names and I don't feel like describing them..
Plenty of shapes are thinkable where the passes are simple, and people could move around in between passes. Like a Y, or 2 Y shapes back to back (6 people), inner outer circle/star ( minimum 3 passers in the middle, same amount of passers around, passes follow a star shaped path)...

Since the chance of error and the chance that you have beginner passers increases with more people, I would always recommend stuff that is easy to understand and execute, or directly builds upon material that all passers know (extending a roundabout for example). In any pattern, any passer can be exchanged for 2 people doing walk-arounds, any pass can be exchanged for someone doing takeouts and drop ins.

I suppose you've also looked at the passingwiki?
http://passingwiki.org/wiki/Special:RunQuery/Pattern_Query

Maria - - Parent

It doesn't really matter to me what is the "best" number of people to pass with, at my juggling club we are usually 2-5 passers and we choose a pattern according to the number of passers present.

Uhm, so... Good patterns?

For 4 people I like:
Scrambled V
Speed Weave (can also add an extra club, do passes as doubles)
Rotating Y
14 clubs Y
A "shooting star" with 12 clubs, don't know the name but 4-count, doubles, walking holding two clubs
(Yes, I like patterns where I get to move around...)

5 people:
Mr inside Mr outside weave
star (many possibilities to make different variations here)
W-feed (add walking to make it more interesting)

Haven't really been in patterns with more than 5 jugglers very often. Boston Circle?

EricS - - Parent

4 people: 11 club shooting star (4 count, singles, move when you have two clubs). Philadelphia line (Passers 1 and 2 face Passers 3 and 4)

1 2 3 4

Passers 1 and 4 pass double/double/triple, passers 2 and 3 pass double/dropback/single

5 people: Torture Chamber

Little Paul - - Parent

I do enjoy shooting star patterns, although I prefer the 4-person-9-club-move-when-your-hands-are-empty version

^Tom_ - - Parent

How about the 4-person-9-club-grab-some-rum-when-your-hands-are-empty version?

mike.armstrong - - Parent

Tequila, Shirley?
That one's known (in my head at least) as the Shoting Star

Little Paul - - Parent

i don't think I've played that version since the days of the top field.

Marvin - - Parent

This poll has now ended. The results are:

  1.   4 (2 votes)
  2.   5 (1 vote)
  3.   6 (0 votes)
  4.   7 (0 votes)
  5.   8
    (0 votes)

Daniel Simu - - Parent

I am so excited for the results of the original poll.. but we have to wait until January 15th!? Pfff

Mats1 -

What are some nice club passing patterns suitable for larger numbers (5-8 people)?

  1. 5
  2. 6
  3. 7
  4. 8

This is a competition thread which ran from 16th Dec 2015 to 15th Jan 2016. View results.

The Void - - Parent

Why is this a poll? It makes no sense as such.

Orinoco - - Parent

I'd guess Mats1 was going for a survey.

We don't have a survey option!

I'm still voting for number 6 though.

Little Paul - - Parent

But 6 isn't even prime!

Chris - - Parent

You fool.

Number 5 master race

7b_wizard - - Parent

I think, you're in an old or other competition type mode
and were going for answers like:

1. this pattern for 5 jugglers
2. other or same pattern for 6 jugglers
3. pattern for 7 jugglers
4. pattern for 8 jugglers

.. then people vote for answers and find patterns most voted for.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Maybe radio button "Most votes wins" does that (instead "Poll"), but I haven't used that yet.

7b_wizard - - Parent

But you might then be able to vote for the whole set of proposed patterns (5-8 jugglers) only, not distinct patterns for different numbers of jugglers.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

I'd say 6!

7b_wizard - - Parent

Haha
I expected this answer from The Void.
And vice versa.
What happened?

Cedric Lackpot - - Parent

Agreed.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Huh? .. Aren't 4 and 9 also nice? Are they?

Mïark - - Parent

I vote 5, the more people you have in a passing pattern the more time you spend getting started and not actually juggling/passing.

Have you checked out the Madison book for multi-person passing patterns, there are also a few 5 and 6 person patterns on Aidan's website

Marvin - - Parent

This poll has now ended. The results are:

  1.   5 (5 votes)
  2.   6 (6 votes)
  3.   7 (2 votes)
  4.   8 (0 votes)

The Void - - Parent

There seems to be a superfluous line break there, Marvin. Tsk.
Oh, and could you stir this coffee for me, please?

Marvin - - Parent

Clockwise or anti-clockwise?

The Void - - Parent

Yes.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Surprisingly there were much more votes on this poll than the othe one...

Orinoco -

When you teach someone to pass, which end of the spectrum are you closer to?:

  1. Point out every under-spun/over-spun/long/short/wide/crossing etc. pass
  2. Just deal with it & let them iron their own mistakes out



#passing

This is a competition thread which ran from 4th Dec 2015 to 11th Dec 2015. View results.

Brook Roberts - - Parent

I want to click an option but find it almost impossible to do so.
If I'm teaching someone to pass, I merrily tell them it's time to move on whenever we get a short run, and head straight towards one count, whereupon they really just need to make sure the clubs go forward and up and we can run it.

If my partner who I can pass 9 clubs with is doing 7 club one-count/giving me 6 club 2 count for body throws, and they aren't perfect, then I tend to point out possibly a lot more things than they would like. And get frustrated that they don't!

I think passing body moves is probably the best example of this. If someone is learning shoulder throws with me, I'm a huge fan of telling them to just try and run it once they've landed like two - I'll catch everything and not complain - because it lets them get a feel for the trick. But if they're feeding me, they better not be lazy just because they're passing 6 club 2-count! (yes I know my stupid albert combo pass was 3 feet to the right and 1 1/2 spins over, but your pass was a little low, could you fix it please :) )


I think it's also really useful to say how much feedback you want. Some people I know will say 'no feedback yet', and then in a few minutes when they've sorted out the pattern, request feedback. Ideally I would be giving them the right amount of feedback, but I often given too much or too little, so feedback feedback is useful, and is conveying how much spare capacity you have at your end of the pattern.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Yes, I think there's value in saying how much feedback you want. When I do a pattern for the first time, it normally takes me a few runs to get my hands to automatically make the correct types of throws before I can start dealing with accuracy issues.

"Give me a few runs to get this sorted"

Orinoco - - Parent

Saying how much feedback you want up front is a good plan if you know what is going to be useful to you, but will a newbie really know? I think there is a lot of pressure to take feedback even when it is not helpful. I think there is a point where a newbie becomes ready for feedback but it takes a while to get to it. In the face of a battle-scarred veteran passer I think most virgin passers will panic & say, "Ooh, constructive criticism, that's good. Honesty, that's good too. I'll have lots of that please." I've seen poor newbies battered by a catalogue of errors way beyond their current ability to correct. I've never asked anyone I've taught how much feedback they want. Probably arrogance on my part because I think I know best?

I'm definitely closer to option 2. I find that if you take away the pressure to make perfect passes the pupil improves much more rapidly. A lot of the people I teach to pass haven't got a very solid cascade yet. I'm a strong believer that learning to pass as soon as possible is a good thing. I really do it to give them a bit of variety to their practice so they don't get bored of drilling the cascade on their own (which is apparently a problem for some other people), so I don't care what their passes are like, I'm sneakily trying to get them to do more self throws.

Richard Loxley - - Parent

Ah, I missed the idea that this was complete beginners at passing. Since everyone I know is "still learning", even after several years, that's what I'd assumed!

For complete beginners, I think if I'm capable of catching the passes, I'd just keep quiet and let them improve. If I can't catch them, then I'll wait until I've noticed a pattern to what they're doing wrong, then suggest a change there.

Brook Roberts - - Parent

Yes, I agree, I was talking in general. For complete beginners, none, or really basic, one comment.

The Void - - Parent

1.5 Give them enough feedback to work on. But don't overload them with too much to think about.

Mike Moore - - Parent

I'm assuming this is assuming there's a big skill asymmetry between me and the other person. If so, I deal with whatever they throw at me until the variability in their throws starts to tighten up. At that point, I think they're ready for feedback.

That said, normally the feedback (for a new passer, anyway) is "okay, good, let's change the count."

Mike Moore - - Parent

Eesh, a triple post, but I want to say this anyway: I get bored when someone throws me perfect passes!

Little Paul - - Parent

I'm probably somewhere in the middle of those two options. I'll deal with anything that's within arms reach, if it's not in arms reach I'll keep sending good, on-time passes until I can recover the drop. I try to give encouraging feedback during the run ("nice!, that's it! more like that!")

But I'll save more detailed feedback at the end of a run if there's a consistent problem (eg, "those passes got longer as they went on" or "you're consistently sending half a spin too much")

Oh, and because I'm British, I'll spend as much time apologising for not being able to catch everything...

However, if I'm passing with an experienced passer[1] and trying to improve my throws (which given that I pass about once a year these days, leaves quite a lot of room for improvement) then I tend to criticise my own throws and actively seek detailed corrective advice.

[1] which basically means Mamph

emilyw - - Parent

3. Pick one thing they would get most benefit from working on. Tell them about that one thing. Then point out every pass where they get that thing RIGHT.

Also teach them to look through the pattern so they can see more easily for themselves what's going wrong.

Richard Loxley - - Parent

Right in the middle of the two.

I don't point out mistakes unless at least half their throws have the same mistake, in which case I'll point it out during the next pause.

Maria - - Parent

I think I'm closer to option 2. Definitely not commenting on every pass, but after a drop I might say something like "Okay, good, but many of your passes are a bit short. Do you think that you can make them a bit longer?" or "Did you notice that I got one of your passes to the wrong hand?". The second more to see if they have learned to see my cathces than to correct something that happened once...

It depends a bit on how much I think they are able to fix too, if it looks like the pattern is very difficult to them or I know they don't really have a solid cascade yet I'll probably give less feedback, at least as long at it's good enough to not mess up my passes to them.

Not that I have taught many people to pass yet, very few, and only like 3-4 of them had never tried any passing at all before.

Like Orin I think learning to pass soon is a good thing, and of course, since I think passing is the best kind of juggling I want every new juggler to learn and have fun with passing. Sometimes I try to teach someone 5 clubs 1-count before they have even learned to juggle...

EricS - - Parent

The first few rounds, I usually don't say much. I stress them making eye contact, though, and watching their own clubs less. If they do that, they get some sense of the corrections I'm making (reaching out to snag their outside pass, moving to avoid their inside pass, reaching for short or long passes, etc,). I tell them not to worry about it, just get used to passing. Once they get comfortable letting the club go like that, then I give them feedback to work on their passing.

When I learned, I was told (and I teach) that the responsibility for the pass is with the passer, but once the pass leaves your hand, there is nothing else you could do; you can only fix your next pass.

Marvin - - Parent

This poll has now ended. The results are:

  1.   Point out every under-spun/over-spun/long/short/wide/crossing etc. pass (1 vote)
  2.   Just deal with it & let them iron their own mistakes out (11 votes)

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Wow, that was a one sided poll!

I haven't really followed much of the discussion, but perhaps I'll read some now that I figure that I am the only one who voted for option one.

I am just closer to that end of the spectrum, not at all pointing out EVERY flaw, mostly focussing on one at a time. Starting with distance, then width, and only later spin. And not just correcting passes, also receiving, selfs, body position, etc. Just small bits at a time.
Of course there is a lot of fast progress at the very beginning even without my interruption, and the first few minutes it might be more important to provide for motivation instead of critique. However, I think anything goes better when you are aware of what goes on. And there is so much new stuff going on at once, that it might help if I shift your focus to a specific aspect, especially since I can compensate for any errors that follow from correcting something simple like a tongue out of mouth.

Brook Roberts - - Parent

Well, it's a bit tricky, since hopefully most of us would pick something inbetween the two! Also, I changed my vote when Orinoco clarifed he was talking about real beginner passes, rather than just teaching someone, or passing with someone of comparable ability.

Normally when I teach complete beginners, I like to excite them by getting them to power through quite a few patterns. I like their first experience of passing to be exciting rather than me badgering them about technique (plenty of time for that later ;) )

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Not too long after posting this, I ended up passing with a relative beginner (managed in the end 6 passes of 3count).

I do indeed correct throws that are off, but mostly they are too inconsistent to point out specific flaws!

Julius -

What's my name?

  1. Julius Hudacek-Caesar
  2. Julius New
  3. Julius Waldorf
  4. Julius Smith
  5. Julius Jefferson Camarota

This is a competition thread which ran from 8th Oct 2015 to 15th Oct 2015. View results.

Kelhoon - - Parent

Julius Von Trapp

Marvin - - Parent

This poll has now ended. The results are:

  1.   Julius Hudacek-Caesar (0 votes)
  2.   Julius New (11 votes)
  3.   Julius Waldorf (1 vote)
  4.   Julius Smith (4 votes)
  5.   Julius Jefferson Camarota (1 vote)

Orinoco - - Parent

I would find it much less confusing if you followed the naming convention of European monarchs & called yourself Julius IV or however many Julius' there have been in your family.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

I hadn't seen this poll.. I would have been twisted between voting "new" and "Jefferson Camarota".... But since only "new" is spelled correct, that would make the decision easier ;)

It would be a really cool name, I think I'll call my kid Jefferson Commarota

Julius - - Parent

Oh man, I should have googled it beforehand!

Well, I guess I have a New name! All credit goes into the void for suggesting it.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Now, change your name on Ytube (G+) so everyone will know :)

Julius - - Parent

Excellent advice, thank you.

The Void - - Parent

You're welcome. But my name is the same as ever: The Void.

It's Him - - Parent

Of course your name has changed. Many of us remember Ste3void.

Nigel

Who has been It's Him for around 20 years

7b_wizard -

Do you invent things (tricks, siteswaps, moves, combinations; props; own show \ choreography; .. ) or do you depend on it being there already (siteswap- & trick-libraries; shown to you; seen it done by someone live or on video or written of; .. ) ?

  1. I am creative and \ or invent a lot \ frequently.  ( = very inventive creative innovative resourceful ingenious .. ).
  2. I casually find something new, that I've seen no one do before.  ( = a bit inventive ).
  3. I (partly) adapt what's there given (and do it `my way´) .. I wouldn't call that "inventing", but it's also not strictly reproducing.  ( = mostly reproducing ).
  4. I reproduce what I find from what diversity there is already given. What I do is well-proven, .. there's not much to invent.  ( = strictly reproducing ).
  5. other, creative andor inventive.   (e.g. only once, e.g. a speciality)
  6. other, reproducing.   (e.g. copying historical acts may need inventive improvisation)
  7. other: e.g.   neither, nor  \  both  \  can't be polled on like this  \  "I just drawed an elephant on my frisbee, does that count?"  \  ...


[ my focus is meant on inventing on juggling .. so, if you have the choice - doing several artistry - please vote how much you invent or not in juggling! .. Else feel free to vote for any your art! ]

thk 4 voting!

[ #poll #creativity #endlessthread ingenious originative innovative resourceful ]

This is a competition thread which ran from 20th Sep 2015 to 27th Sep 2015. View results.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Hmm...I'd like to say 1 or 2, but I try very hard not to invent *a lot*. Rather, I notice a lot of things that haven't been done, and I try to do ones that are particularly meaningful. It should introduce a new movement, frame something in a different way, or combine movements in such a way that there's some kind of emergent property.

For example:
Reverse backcross -> backcross -> behind the head kind of has an emergent property in that it's surprisingly easy. That's not typically the kind of thing I look for.

Backcross -> reverse backcross -> behind the head causes there to be an interesting motion between one hand throwing a behind the head and catching the reverse backcross. It's a very unnatural follow-through of a behind the head to rotate at the elbow to make the reverse backcross catch.

Both are nice because they have you looking in one direction for three throws, unlike all of the component patterns!

I realize I'm kind of rambling, but this is the stuff that excites me in juggling.

7b_wizard - - Parent

1 or 2 [..] hard to invent ``a lot´´
Yeh, .. maybe ``frequently´´ \ ``very inventive \ creative \ innovative´´, or ``always having an eye \ part of brain looking out for changing something´´ but that overlaps with point 3. "adapt given tricks" .. or else also ``explore & discover the possibilities of juggling (\ props \ ..) mainly in own resarch & work or finding out´´ ? .. Had same problem (with my own poll?! :oY  ) .. but chose 1. 'cos "a bit" is definitely too few. Also 1. & 2. will in the end be put together as "is inventive" (not "not inventive") vs. mainly reproducing what existing stuff can be found and seen, i guess.

Also working with siteswaps is a bit ambiguous to vote .. you can find them out or `make them up´ for your needs, but they are always already there calculable in their mathematically-logical system .. it would then depend on how someone feels, they are being "innovative" like actually doing queer unusual siteswaps or having the idea and the guts to actually try and do a vera hard given siteswap (considered like `impossible´ or `merely theoretic´ stickman-stuff), or else simply "finding" or "adapting" a passing siteswap for one, two, .. more person(s) ..
E.g. I thought of how to siteswap a split 3b-cascade ball and worked out: http://www.pic-upload.de/view-28372554/4b-90090990_split_ball.gif.html, which I'd call clearly more "inventive" than adding a prop or adapting a given siteswap for another passing partner or finding another transition fro & to ground-state than usual for a siteswap.

bx .. rbx .. bth
I'm afraid - having tried and done only single behind the neck over other shoulder (throw btn) and back (catch btn) - that I can only guess sort of what you mean with your example .. are you there a) following the beats with every hand throwing, the movement in question being a bth throw + bx catch (clawed, i guess) all behind the head on that hand's `side´ in the first example and a bth-throw on its side + hurried rbx-catch (normal? \ claw?) near the other shoulder (with that ball threatening to get out of reach fast), or are you b) following one ball flying the described orbits?

I don't read, you're asking what to vote - in that case just vote how much you feel your juggling and work on it being "inventive" (\creative \innovative) or just "adaptive" (or maybe you want to read point 5. as "other: deeply, strongly and thoroughly adaptive"-creative) - but your post already tells more than your vote would and chosing any "inventive" point will - I think - represent you well against the non-inventive reproducers and trick- and siteswap-`collectors´.

7b_wizard - - Parent

[edit .. "worked out" .. ] http://www11.pic-upload.de/21.09.15/8ur45vaq2ur.gif (3b-casc, split-ball)

7b_wizard - - Parent

= 4b-90090990 .. one can play around and get slightly adapted spacing with e.g. 4b-f0000f00f0f0000

7b_wizard - - Parent

Inventing a trick \ move \ sth that existed before, but you didn't know, counts as "inventive" ( 1. or 2. or 5. .. or 3. if its "adapting" by minor change).

7b_wizard - - Parent

rem.: Last day to poll on creativity \ inventiveness against doing what's given \ collecting all there is.

Marvin - - Parent

This poll has now ended. The results are:

  1.   I am creative and \ or invent a lot \ frequently.  ( = very inventive creative innovative resourceful ingenious .. ). (4 votes)
  2.   I casually find something new, that I've seen no one do before.  ( = a bit inventive ). (1 vote)
  3.   I (partly) adapt what's there given (and do it `my way´) .. I wouldn't call that "inventing", but it's also not strictly reproducing.  ( = mostly reproducing ). (2 votes)
  4.   I reproduce what I find from what diversity there is already given. What I do is well-proven, .. there's not much to invent.  ( = strictly reproducing ). (0 votes)
  5.   other, creative andor inventive.   (e.g. only once, e.g. a speciality) (0 votes)
  6.   other, reproducing.   (e.g. copying historical acts may need inventive improvisation) (0 votes)
  7.   other: e.g.   neither, nor  \  both  \  can't be polled on like this  \  "I just drawed an elephant on my frisbee, does that count?"  \  ... (1 vote)

7b_wizard -

Are you eager to learn many or all different unrelated new and other things like props, juggling or circus-utils and -tools, styles,
Do you try to be a complete juggler / artist? Learning even what you rather dislike?

  [ "different unrelated new things" means "really different", no helpful related preliminaries, no related upgrades from like ball-trick to same with clubs or going from 3b cascade to 5b cascade or learning shoulder throws after mastering backcrosses or doing them reverse or alike, and not just altering a siteswap. - But rather e.g. diving into a new trick-family, e.g. use rings or e.g. sit on an unicycle for the first time or alike, or e.g. an upto then never tried sort of body-moves or alike, or simply daring and getting into a very hard trick.   "rather dislike" means what you've always been avoiding or hated or been too awkward with, e.g. doing gap's and holds-preliminaries, or e.g. disliked fountains (evens andor separated andor uncrossing) versus cascades (unevens crossing), or e.g. being scared of tall giraffes. ]

  1. - I am perfectly okay with what I do and what line I'm on and stick to that. [=not at all "complete", few "new"]
  2. - I casually widen my repertoire whenever e.g. I'm done with something prior or e.g. sth. new (& different & unrelated) fascinates me. [=but far from "complete". =No.]
  3. - I eagerly take what i can get, for fun only, and it's no issue avoiding what doesn't seem to suit me. [=open & longing for new & other things, but "complete": no.]
  4. - I actually do work on and want to fairly master at least the basics of any prop and util comes under my hands, all basics patterns, except for it would mean harder work over longer period of time .. and only aside of cultivating my specialities or favourites. [=yes but.]
  5. - I partly work myself even into what I dislike a lot, e.g. because its common skill, or because I think its necessary part of being a juggler / artist, or because I can't be ashamed of not being able to do a basic trick or having that basic skill, or because I want that distinct result (trick or skill). [but no way "every- or anything or complete"]
  6. - I even expect myself to learn (possibly everything) what I even dislike for wanting to be complete as an artist. [=Yes!]
  7. - Yes. (other)
  8. - No. (other)
  9. - neither, nor. / yes and no. / too much overlap in choices. / "Is there tea & cookies?" / "I am not voting on this poll." / other "other" ..

  [ The scale is meant to go from "few new" (1. & 2.) over "lotsa new for fun" (3.), "if not too hard or longtime work" (4.) upto "even everything I dislike" (5. & 6.). - Else, please choose whatever comes near! ]
Thanks 4 voting :o)

This is a competition thread which ran from 29th Aug 2015 to 7th Sep 2015. View results.

Maria - - Parent

Huh. I'm not an artist. Juggling is my hobby... And it would be fun to be able to do some other circus stuff, but juggling takes a lot of time (because I want to be better at it and because it's fun) so I don't really practice anything else. So... Not really looking to become an artist at all, I'm quite happy with trying to become a good club juggler and a good club passer. :)

EricS - - Parent

I have mostly focused on toss juggling, but in that I dedicated time to work on all of the traditional disciplines (balls, clubs, and rings). Rings are hardest in terms of getting interior space to practice for me, so that falls by the wayside more than I want it to.

When I was first learning I was really into devilstick. I"m still better than most folks at club, but no one here really does it. I can get a diabolo spinning, but not much more than that. There's some cigar boxes here collecting dust.

The last two years or so, though, I've expanded into contact poi, staff, double staff, and meteor. I practice poi and meteor about as much as I do ball and club juggling. They are no incorporated into my practice routine as much as possible.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Last day for this poll if you wanna vote on trying and working (or not) on everything there is.

Marvin - - Parent

This poll has now ended. The results are:

  1.   - I am perfectly okay with what I do and what line I'm on and stick to that. [=not at all "complete", few "new"] (3 votes)
  2.   - I casually widen my repertoire whenever e.g. I'm done with something prior or e.g. sth. new (& different & unrelated) fascinates me. [=but far from "complete". =No.] (4 votes)
  3.   - I eagerly take what i can get, for fun only, and it's no issue avoiding what doesn't seem to suit me. [=open & longing for new & other things, but "complete": no.] (2 votes)
  4.   - I actually do work on and want to fairly master at least the basics of any prop and util comes under my hands, all basics patterns, except for it would mean harder work over longer period of time .. and only aside of cultivating my specialities or favourites. [=yes but.] (0 votes)
  5.   - I partly work myself even into what I dislike a lot, e.g. because its common skill, or because I think its necessary part of being a juggler / artist, or because I can't be ashamed of not being able to do a basic trick or having that basic skill, or because I want that distinct result (trick or skill). [but no way "every- or anything or complete"] (1 vote)
  6.   - I even expect myself to learn (possibly everything) what I even dislike for wanting to be complete as an artist. [=Yes!] (0 votes)
  7.   - Yes. (other) (1 vote)
  8.   - No. (other) (0 votes)
  9.   - neither, nor. / yes and no. / too much overlap in choices. / "Is there tea & cookies?" / "I am not voting on this poll." / other "other" .. (0 votes)

7b_wizard - - Parent

'k thanks all for voting & `resulting´!

Could myself not decide (on my own poll!?) between 2 and 5 .. I do want basics like fountains and Ones, which I always avoided and never liked, and worked myself into these, but it turned out fun (found the `windmill-fountain´; and want Ones with utter stretched arms some day), and I do it only casually and don't put too much work in it, thus never been prior to bite into seriously. = in mind add a 2 for me. Will be same with rings if I ever find any that suit me.

7b_wizard -

Would you like juggling and artistics to be more popular? ( e.g. taught in regular schools(?), e.g. daily practising groups(?), e.g. more small conventions(?), e.g. more to be seen around(?) )

  1. Yes.
  2. No.
  3. Depends. Rather: yes.
  4. Depends. Rather: no.
  5. Really depends.
  6. What!? (="other") / It is an issue, but not to be polled on. / Block this user. :o]= / Got no idea. / ..

See also: http://www.jugglingedge.com/forum.php?ThreadID=2070&SmallID=14684#Small14684 (world cup; WJF; combat; esports) [use browser search for "popular" for posts touching the topic].
Thk 4 voting :o)

[ #poll #popularityOfJuggling (not "of Jugglers") ]

What do you think the consequences would be .. would it get more expensive (club-fees, convos, props) or would there else be more opportunities to meet other jugglers anywhere around or else both .. would there be more & better props on a bigger market .. will there be commercial juggling-studios (just like fitness-centers) .. would conventions simply become too big .. wouldn't also passing become even more popular .. would there be more exchange on and for the rare props ( e.g. astrojaxx(?) s-staff(?) ) .. will there be more concurrence for the pros or also a bigger clientèle, will stage-level raise .. would there be more juggling on TV and more gigs, background-acting, for the pro .. will there be juggling-schools .. ?   Would that be good or bad in your eyes?

This is a competition thread which ran from 17th Aug 2015 to 31st Aug 2015. View results.

Monte - - Parent

Is artistics a word now? My spell check doesn't recognise it.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

In German "artistik" means something like "circus", so I guess it was an attempt to tranlate that?

7b_wizard - - Parent

Yes, didn't doubt, thus see no need to look it up, ..
should be "artistry" or indeed better "circus (arts)". What I actually meant was "not pure juggling, only, but everything else also" :o])

mrawa - - Parent

This depends on where... juggling/circus is pretty popular in the England, with clubs everywhere, and conventions more or less on a monthly basis. This is probably due to the England being so small, so it's easy for anyone to get to a convention and back. This isn't the case in Canada/US where the country is so large you usually need to set aside a day or so just for travelling!

7b_wizard - - Parent

Think, I meant like worldwide, considering also new talents might rise from Africa or China allowing for more modern / not traditional chinese artforms, which would also provide for lotsa new ideas and combinations, or (rise from) unsuspected places in the world.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Last day open for your vote, this poll on popularity of juggling.

Marvin - - Parent

This poll has now ended. The results are:

  1.   Yes. (8 votes)
  2.   No. (2 votes)
  3.   Depends. Rather: yes. (3 votes)
  4.   Depends. Rather: no. (0 votes)
  5.   Really depends. (1 vote)
  6.   What!? (="other") / It is an issue, but not to be polled on. / Block this user. :o]= / Got no idea. / .. (0 votes)

7b_wizard -

Do you have a  v i s i o n  or do you wait and see where juggling gets you, or do you not think about where it might lead to at all?

  1. I have one strong vision.
  2. I have a fuzzy / multiple sort of vision.
  3. I am curious to see where it will get me (wanting or pushing nothing in particular).
  4. I have distinct plans on learning and wanting distinct (but changing) patterns or skills.
  5. I want to see whatever improvement above everything else.
  6. I don't care "where my juggling leads". Fun-time, the doing is all that matters.
  7. none / all / mixture of the above (it - what will become of it - is an issue, though).
  8. other. / doesn't apply. / "I hate such polls". / bad choice of choices.

Thk 4 voting :o)

[ #endlessthread #poll ]

This is a competition thread which ran from 11th Aug 2015 to 23rd Aug 2015. View results.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Last weekend for this poll before closing & results ... wanna vote? :o)

Marvin - - Parent

This poll has now ended. The results are:

  1.   I have one strong vision. (2 votes)
  2.   I have a fuzzy / multiple sort of vision. (1 vote)
  3.   I am curious to see where it will get me (wanting or pushing nothing in particular). (0 votes)
  4.   I have distinct plans on learning and wanting distinct (but changing) patterns or skills. (4 votes)
  5.   I want to see whatever improvement above everything else. (2 votes)
  6.   I don't care "where my juggling leads". Fun-time, the doing is all that matters. (4 votes)
  7.   none / all / mixture of the above (it - what will become of it - is an issue, though). (2 votes)
  8.   other. / doesn't apply. / "I hate such polls". / bad choice of choices. (1 vote)

7b_wizard - - Parent

Hey! .. rather many votes again :o]) Thanks!   Thanks to Marvin for sorting out the results!

My "one strong vision" is a dim and distant (but my vision of one day doing it myself is strong) more imagined than remembered black & white tv numbers ball-juggling in a manege .. I wouldn't even recognize it with today's eyes.
That vision got an `upgrade´ and refreshing years ago in that here https://www.youtube.com/v/Jp335OQpxaQ [Hiram Meza Pastor (Chile), "Juggling in Cagliari"] my vision of playful Seven Balls is pretty much reflected .. a five ball video mainly, but he does 7 balls at 1:32, 5 up 360°; cascade at 3:09; bounced against a wall (8 balls even?) at 3:40; (8x,6x) (? i think) and another 5 up 360° at 4:23, .. but it's not the tricks andor their difficulty mainly, that bewitched me, (and I might even have misconceived the video e.g. a turning-drift with "gee, he's even walking with the pattern", or e.g. saw more balls, or e.g. wasn't aware of possible fails outside the vid or..or not aware of even more difficult tricks being possible), but [ .. bewitched by .. ] the lightness and playfulness in mastering such a puzzling number of balls simply flying `all around the place´.

I am a bit surprised that only so few people have any longtime far-aim, or only would be curious to see how far or in which direction (/sub) they will get, or wanting to reach a distinct skill or pattern or level. .. Well, .. some do have (changing) part-time goals (maybe long-term in case), just not the (distinct) "one and only all-time" ambition andor destination andor vision so I guess, that half makes up for it.

Thanks again for reflecting on this "outcome of my juggling"-issue!

7b_wizard - - Parent

.. but I shouldn't wrong anyone having (strong) "goal or longtime far-aim" for not choosing "vision", which in fact has much stronger a notion of more of like a (powerful) imagined, visualized `pictured dream´. (which is exactly what I wanted to poll on)

7b_wizard - - Parent

.. so it's not so surprising after all .. Three out of Sixteen have, every Fifth, has a juggler's dream. That's great! ;o])

pumpkineater23 - - Parent

I think it might be good to have aims when we're younger.. to help push to the next level.

Eventually though progress slows, stops and then everything starts to fall apart as our bodies and mind deteriorate. "You live and learn - then you die and forget it all"

I suppose that's ultimately where our juggling leads to. But like life, it's really about the journey, the path rather than the destination.


I think we leave something behind when we stop though, a tiny piece that goes towards changing and evolving the amazing infinite juggling puzzle.

7b_wizard - - Parent

common and deprecated misconception about aging .. you forget that it's possible to early learn how to learn, to early learn how to stay aware, and to learn how to cope with and handle your own strengths and flaws (at learning on and on and pursuing aims). You never stop learning and adapting and doing and figuring out new things (need be learned first again) - getting into new stuff becomes a routine and optimized, and awareness of erroneous ways in the labyrinth is trained and stronger. Juggling is not only athletics [athletistry? athletry? lol], but a whole lot of skill.
Also researches have proven that, .. that new synapses are being built (=learning) also at old age.
I also don't think many jugglers (among all) go to their limits (daily), and many stop to practise a lot at a certain high level, so you can get to such high levels - no matter what age - by simply investing time and work (that others don't) and with ardour. ( But I'm afraid, I'll stay owing proof on that for say another decade or two haha IF I DON'T GET THAT `BREAKTHROUGH´ on "playful seven balls" .. ).

7b_wizard -

gun-to-your-head- #poll

I like juggling-videos better ..

  1. with music.
  2. without music.

thk 4 voting!

This is a competition thread which ran from 19th Jul 2015 to 26th Jul 2015. View results.

peterbone - - Parent

3. It depends on the video content.

lukeburrage - - Parent

4. Depends if the music is blocked in Germany on YouTube, and there isn't a version uploaded to Vimeo or juggling.tv

Little Paul - - Parent

5. I prefer natural sound track to silence, and "appropraiately chosen music that I dislike" to "music I like that doesn't suit the video"

7b_wizard - - Parent

2. .. I like the sound of the props in the hands and anything the juggler utters, sigh, sough, groan, moan, breathe, kiais (intimidating the props), gihaps (기합, 氣合), rrRRaaAAHH, OUFFH, PAAHW, yesss, yipi, .. everything ..

7b_wizard - - Parent

'k, then .. any random surprise juggling video, and you have to decide which one version of it with or without music, you will be seeing.

.. or - weighing the risk of seeing it without music, fitting the juggling act or music, you'd have liked over the risk of seeing it with music you don't like or that doesn't fit ..

but all that's not the point: can you even generally / in principle / basically decide for (rather) "with or without", no matter any distinct given "depends-on-this-or-that"-s.

peterbone - - Parent

Error: The problem is not sufficiently constrained.

7b_wizard - - Parent

If s/he who makes a juggling video can either add music or leave it without, would you want it "with" or "without" ` i n  t h e  f i r s t  p l a c e´ ?

peterbone - - Parent

I don't mean to frustrate you, but the term 'juggling video' is just too general. It's like asking if I like music with lyrics or without. I like both in different contexts. For short juggling videos of a single trick I like no music and the original recorded sound. For longer montage videos I like music, especially if it's been timed with the juggling in some way.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Poll is conceived for those who are willing or capable of  categorically  deciding for either option.
( I was well aware of the complexity of arguments for and against including - which what how why if - music for a distinct juggling-video .. the poll is meant to see if there's a general preference even regardless of any distinct context. Raw. )

Little Paul - - Parent

Do you like your chocolate cake
a) with ketchup
b) with mustard

7b_wizard - - Parent

"without"

It's a "yes or no" Music-poll, not "with this or with that".

Please, please, stop that witchhunt on the poll .. i did mark it "gun-to-head"-poll to avoid exactly this .. [ and my anxiety towards next Green Eggs report is increasing with every futile attack defending my poll against http://www.jugglingedge.com/greeneggs.php?Year=2015&Month=6 ahead by half more vote.. erhh! .. posts :o[ .. ]

peterbone - - Parent

I don't think anyone meant to attack you. Just explaining why I'm not voting. Why do you care so much about the Green Eggs report?

Mïark - - Parent

I am getting quite concerned with your preoccupation with guns to peoples head, is this a cry for help? In my experience of encounters with people with armed weapons, they pointed the guns at my body rather than head and issued commands rather than asking trivia questions (but my experience is obviously eurocentric).

I wouldn't worry about having a high post count on the Green Eggs Report, people like Orinoco or Little Paul regularly have an embarrassing high post count. Perhaps you could be happy to have to started a discussion about music with juggling videos and ascertaining it is not as simple as liking with or without. For me there can be other factors such as whether I like the music or how well it suits the juggling, or if I watch it via facebook or while travelling I will have the sound turned off.

Mïark - - Parent

Does the cake have icing (frosting)? Is it milk or plain chocolate (or shudder white chocolate)?
Tomato or other ketchup? English or German mustard?

mrawa - - Parent

Is the cake gluten and/or rodent free?

Mïark - - Parent

Just throwing this in here - because I can

www.heinzitup.com/en/Recipes/G/Great%20Canadian%20Heinz%20Ketchup%20Cake

Tempted to try baking this as it looks pretty amazing though 1 litre of icing sugar seems quite a lot, do Canadians have very sweet tooths?

Little Paul - - Parent

I apologise to the judges of next years chocfest for any ideas I may have inadvertently given Miark

Chris - - Parent

I would likely "delegate" the tasting of one of Miarks inventions anyway

Mïark - - Parent

Mïark now enters CCCC under a proxy name due to judges deliberately stopping him winning since the 2000 success.

mrawa - - Parent

TBH ever since watching a particularly ear wrenching video (I won't say which juggler's), I watch all on mute.*

Unless I've been told that the music adds something to it, which so far has been never...

Monte - - Parent

Is music without juggling videos an option.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Thanks for not putting a question mark, .. I can that way spare an answer and not be first July's Green Egg.

Marvin - - Parent

This poll has now ended. The results are:

  1.   with music. (7 votes)
  2.   without music. (2 votes)

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