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Nikki H -

Hi everyone!

Just joined, thought I would as I have just go back from an EXCELLENT BJC!!!

Orinoco - - Parent

Hi Nikki, welcome to the Edge. Fancy that I just got back from an excellent BJC too.

In fact, stand by for an excessive amount of words on the subject...

^Tom_ -

Finger video sought

I'm looking for a video, quite long about 10 or 20 minutes long I think. I'm 90% sure that it was on JTV. The audio was probably in Russian or Ukrainian, and it had lots of finger exercises presented by a lone girl.

Can anyone help?

^Tom_ - - Parent

After a hundred pages or so, I found it:

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Thanks for sharing that nugget! :D

bad1dobby - - Parent

Are you familiar with Greg Carson? He has been promoting finger exercising since the 1980s. Here he is performing his 'finger ballet' on Carson:

^Tom_ - - Parent

I was not, but thank you.

Near the beginning (~35s in the video), it did make me wonder if he had sought an advertising deal with a large German banking chain...
( )

bad1dobby - - Parent

Ummm, that would be Greg Irwin, on Carson, not Greg Carson...

Jam -

Hey everyone!
Everyone is always talking about this site, so I thought I should join up, and get all these in-jokes that I seem to be totally oblivious to!

The Void - - Parent

Hi Jam, welcome.
Are you the Jam that was on this year's BJC crew? If so, thanks. :-)

Jam - - Parent

Yep! That would be me!
And thanks! I feel like I've taken a lot from this community, so would like to start giving back :-)

Orinoco - - Parent

Welcome aboard Jam & thanks for your efforts with the BJC this year.

Do we have that many in-jokes here?

Orinoco -

Apologies for downtime on the 8th of April. I received the warning email after I had set off for the BJC, so I was unable to offer any warning. Dreamhost were upgrading the MySQL servers & MySQL software. Everything looks to have gone smoothly, no problems to report.

The Void -

BJC 2018 will be in....

Canterbury, after Easter.

There is an additional event planned for the summer in Cumbria - which is *not* a BJC, but *is* a juggly event, tied in to celebrating the 250th anniversary of "circus" (Astley, etc).

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Crikey, will it be THAT year next year? :o

lukeburrage - - Parent

*sigh* Just do the BJC in the summer! Just do the BJC in the summer!

The Void - - Parent

Come to the business meeting if you want a say in it! Come to the business meeting if you want a say in it! :-P

lukeburrage - - Parent

I would, but the BJC is waaay to expensive for a camping convention where the weather is such a coin flip that I've not camped at one since 2001. It's the reason I don't go, and also the reason why I recommend anyone from Europe who asks about it not to go.

Little Paul - - Parent

We get it Luke, you say this over and over whenever anyone so much as mentions BJC.

Give it a rest for a bit?

(And come to Cumbria in the summer)

lukeburrage - - Parent

Sure sure. I'd be happy to come to Cumbria in the summer, of course. Who wouldn't be?

^Tom_ - - Parent

My best memory of the Canterbury presentation:

The venue:

The Langton
Langton Lane

The team is led by "Spyro" Mike

We were given detailed pictures and maps of the site, with 1 main hall (~1085m^2 based on my googlemaps-fu), and smaller "show hall" and "aerial hall" (so named as they will be able to rig from it). There are additional classrooms and seating areas.
A whole metric boatload of hard standing area (assuming that one boatload is about 0.4 hectares), Roughly 150 by 250m of camping space (which should be enough 2 or 3 times over).
There is a swimming pool on site, which should be available. And possibly also the observatory.

The show venue is a theatre in town where Mike works, although the name escapes me.
There is a vintage bus organization in Canterbury, which should hopefully provide the transportation to the show.

(Would any squirrels fix any obvious blunders).

Orinoco - - Parent

A certain person from TWJC who is not familiar with theatre terminology spent a great deal of time searching for a theatre in Canterbury named 'The Round'. Oh how we laughed!

Scott Seltzer - - Parent

Do you know the exact dates for BJC 2018? Easter is April 1 and that's also the day IJC starts.

Cedric Lackpot - - Parent

I forgot where I heard it but I was advised "after Easter".

It's Him - - Parent

The simple answer is no.

The slightly more complicated answer is starting in the week after Easter and continuing to the following week.

Mike didn't have specific dates attached to his bid and had some degree of flexibility. I imagine the dates will firm up rather quickly now that he knows that he is running the convention.


Cedric Lackpot -

BJC thread? BJC thread!

Although my stay was brief it was really nice to greet some old faces for the first time in one or two years as I've been out of the loop for so long. And it was also rather wistful and nostalgic for me. Age encroaches.

I only stayed one night, was exhausted when I arrived, and even deader when I left, but I enjoyed myself in the glorious spring sunshine. Not gonna do a HLSGCBUTCAA because they're daft. But I have a few obsevations/questions :-

  • Was it just me, or were numbers really rather down this year? It seemed sparse, but good weather getting lots of people outdoors can do that to conventions. It also felt like it was organised on a bit of a shoestring compared to previous Team Randall editions, but since I was only there for the weekend that could be a spurious impression.
  • Am I the only one who didn't like the Gala Show? (Hint: No, but I shan't spill the beans.) I liked the hat act, and Guillaume was mildly interesting, but the rest of it left me cold, and wondering when the real show would start.
  • Did anyone go to the business meeting? What transpired?
  • Did David Langston actually survive? He seemed to be chugging neat deathwish on Saturday night, hard to believe he could still stand!
  • Any drama I would want to know about?
  • Is it time for me to retire The Old Skool? I think so, but it might be nice if it were handed over to someone fresh, or if it morphed into something else.

And finally ...

  • Anyone coming to Lestival? It has an all new org team and should therefore be überbrillig!

Al_Bee - - Parent

Oh the show. Was a bit odd initially as we were sat near a guy who clearly had learning disabilities and was occasionally loud and/or inappropriate - that wasn't a problem but the annoying kid who thought this guy was HILARIOUS was certainly an issue.

So the acts then - it seems I liked more of it than Jay. The "Paganini" act I thought was a highlight - funny and interesting and well done. Guillaume was fantastic - brilliantly choreographed and technical and I loved it. Cyr wheel was good too I thought. To give the hat duo credit they did actually have a sense of fun about them. Having said that the guy moving curvy sticks around awkwardly was a little weak - and there was to be a workshop the following day where you too could learn to move curvy sticks around awkwardly. There was a moment during this act that reminded me of watching modern jazz live - people just started applauding at seemingly nothing - I just didn't get it.

Actually after the first half I was wondering if this was one of those inspirational shows where people in the audience could see the acts on stage and definitely think "One day I'll have an act good enough to grace the BJC Gala Show stage." But the second half saved it imo (and Guillame absolutely hit the spot).

Orinoco - - Parent

Just got home!

I am aiming to have my full report on your desk by Saturday evening. Jon Peat was also taking extensive notes so we should have at least two long form accounts of the festival. I have unanimously decided that Jon Peat's will be the official review though.

To quickly address your points though:

  • Not sure about the total attendance, I've got 700ish in my head from somewhere but numbers were certainly up on last year :)
  • I liked the gala show.
  • I went to both business meetings. Lots of things.
  • I heard he ascended to a higher plane of consciousness.
  • Some people acted like dicks during the first business meeting. So no, nothing new.
  • I very much enjoyed the Old Skool, our two overseas visitors especially. Although I felt Pink Nigel dominated too much & Rhonda was given short shrift or talked over on many questions which I wasn't happy about.

& finally...

You mean #Lestivalx on Saturday 29th April at Brockington College? Alas no, but I can highly recommend it to everyone who wouldn't have to spend more time travelling than attending.

Cedric Lackpot - - Parent

> Some people acted like dicks during the first business meeting. So no, nothing new.

But ... but ... Ewan wasn't even there!

Cedric Lackpot - - Parent

Well that looked just fine in the preview. Fuck knows where those tags-not-tags sprung from.

Cedric Lackpot - - Parent

Haha, The Edge is being a dick. First it showed my message with extraneous FONT tags, now it's rendering correctly. Either way, I'm pretty sure it would be better if it would stick to just one method of rendering.

Orinoco - - Parent

I removed them before your second post. I really don't know what you are doing that everyone else using the WYSIWYG editor is not!

Stop posting bugs for a couple of days I'm trying to write a review!1

1 Actually at the moment I'm trying to decipher my notes, but as soon as I've done that I'll start writing.

Al_Bee - - Parent

And is there a reason why it's now "The Gala Show" and not "The Public Show"?

Little Paul - - Parent

Someone explained the difference to me as "a gala show is pitched at festival attendees, a public show should be pitched to attract the general public"

I'm not entirely sure I agree with the distinction

^Tom_ - - Parent

My take on it...

For jugglers, "the public show" makes perfect sense. But if you're then describing it as "the public show" to "the public", then it sounds a bit silly. "The gala show" sounds more like a celebration than simply a description.

I know I'd be more likely to fall for a show called "gala show" than "public show".

John Shearing - - Parent


H The pool party.

I know it's not juggling.

However, it was fun which is what a BJC should be all about.

L I can't really think of anything.

Having to return to the real world is always a shock to the system.

G To run a workshop at the BJC for the first time.

Tick and goaaal!

I was happy with how walking football was received. It was mutually agreed after half an hour that we were all cream crackered so the workshop was terminated ahead of schedule.

B Again I can't really think of anything.

C Not telling you!

Orinoco - - Parent

Another thing from Rebecca Lyon, this one really captures the atmosphere well.

It's Him - - Parent

To answer some of the questions you posed:

The numbers did seem on the low side for a Nottingham convention but I'm wondering if that was due to having a BJC in Perth and people not being good at attending things after they have had a break. The next one will be in Canterbury which I have never visited so am looking forward to.

I thought the gala show was somewhat monotone and wasn't helped by having two slow acts at the start. I found the bound girl with the single club had a very interesting act and that the diabolo act was extremely controlled and slick but left me a little cold. I have seen duelling hats a number of times (including at MKJC where they stole the show) and thoroughly enjoyed them every time but thought the energy had gone from the audience by the time they performed. I have been told that the cyr wheel girl was extremely good but there were a lot of normal cyr wheel tricks that weren't performed (e.g. cartwheels, penny drops) which made me suspect that she was weaker than others have suggested she was. I think the hula hoop act would have fitted better into a more diverse show.

The business meeting was actually two business meetings. In the first two bids emerged, the Kent one which I mentioned previously and one from Rosie Kelly in Cumbria. at the end of the first meeting (which ran out of time) I thought that Rosie would be running the convention in Appleby next year and that Canterbury would run 2019. By the start of the second meeting it appeared like a lot of conversations had happened in the background and Rosie was not offering a BJC but rather a BJC extra to be held in the summer and the Kent bid was the only option. This greatly disappointed me. Not only because I thought that a lot of what Rosie was bringing to the table was coming from a completely different direction to the normal bids, which would have led to a different and interesting convention; but also because we would have had two years sorted and now we have only one. Whether I will be able to attend her BJC extra in the summer will depend on work and dates which would not be an issue at Easter.

The BYJOTY became BYCPOTY or ?bick potty? and included circus people (which meant aerial acts). There was an extremely good silk act and two other aerial acts. Most of the audience were wowed by a 13 year old doing some two diabolo tricks finishing with three diabolos. His act was slick but wouldn't have been considered if most of the other acts hadn't lacked something. The technical acts were highly technical and highly droppy (nothing new there) and most of the other acts weren't acts. I voted for a 3 ball juggler who had an act but could easily have voted for a staff manipulator with a well choreographed routine and believable character. I missed out on the drop count by 1 grrr.

I think the other panellists on the Old Skool were all much better than myself and interesting to listen to. I would happily have sat in the audience and listened to them but I had the offer of beer :-) I don't think that the Old Skool has run its course but I would like to see a panel which had a different make up at some point e.g. Jane Randall, Mamph, Amanda Drabble and Jay Linn as the panellists with Emily Winch as chair.

Alas I will miss Lestival again.


Cedric Lackpot - - Parent

> Jane Randall, Mamph, Amanda Drabble and Jay Linn as the panellists with Emily Winch as chair.

I am deeply flattered, thank you Nigel. And I suspect Emily would be chortling at the idea of me - me! - being on board as the token man.

Slightly more seriously, I love the idea of a mostly women panel but it's bastard hard getting women to join in, at least in the current format. Rhonda quite rightly made a tart remark about her reason for being there, but the alternative is to let the panel pick itself, and that's pretty much a 100% guarantee of blokishness. It's a really tough square to circle, and personally I don't know a better way than deciding that you're going to find a woman regardless, long before you get all meritocratic about it.

Little Paul - - Parent

Getting panellists isn't easy, and I saw first hand how hard you had to work to pull a panel together on the day.

I think Rhonda being overlooked at times was probably less to do with her being female and more to do with you being less familiar with her history than the others on the panel. The same thing happened 2 years ago, with the chap whose name escapes me (he had a goatee, and his wife had been involved in organising a bjc?) and I heard similar comments about that years panel bring uneven.

It's a shame, as her childhood sounded fascinating!

I talked to a few people who had never seen an old Skool panel before, and they seemed to think the idea still had legs. I think, if anything I'd like to see the idea extended - perhaps spun as a "new Skool panel" where the hot young things of today face questions about what inspires/drives them, where they get ideas, where they see juggling going etc.

Also, several people suggested to me that (at least one of) the bells should be under the direct control of the audience - something I definitely agree with!

The Void - - Parent

Pulling it together on the day is the problem. That's why I said no when you asked me.
If you can't get (haven't prepared) a quiet space where panelists can be heard by the audience more than 6 feet away, then get some microphones.
The latter is why I left after half an hour.
Greg was hilarious.

The Void - - Parent

LP, you mean Steve Bridge.

Little Paul - - Parent

That's the chap!

Cedric Lackpot - - Parent

> Also, several people suggested to me that (at least one of) the bells should be under the direct control of the audience - something I definitely agree with!

I already have a deeply stupid idea about this ...

Orinoco - - Parent

Just come straight out with it LP: you want to squeeze the Pig of Derision.

^Tom_ - - Parent

On the subject of morphing...

Some years ago, I had a bit of an idea about a HIGNIFY-type panel quiz show to take place at a BJC. In essence it would probably have to be primarily Old Skool-ish to be entertaining. Although a new school team vs an old skool team would also work pretty nicely (or mixed old/young teams, and mixed modern/historical questions).

Anyway, I have several ideas, and if anyone is interesting in making something happen one day, or if the old skool wants a year off, then I'd be happy to discuss possible ideas.

^Tom_ - - Parent

Of course I meant more "Never mind the Buzzcocks" than "Have I got new for you".

Al_Bee - - Parent

I still reckon a "Would Jugglers Lie to You?" for met would be great. Lots of potential for showing off and great stories from the past being discussed.

Al_Bee - - Parent

That's "format" of course. Bloody finger sausages.

Rosie - - Parent

attended the Old Skool talk for the first time, despite always wanting to go see what it was all about I've never managed
(usually because renegade..or just juggling, not like a major avoiding reason)

short answer; loved it.

long answer...
didn't realise exactly what it as, had in my mind it was like a game show style, panel thing...dont ask why.
But basically I think if it was "advertised" more before BJC or at the event, more people would attend and know what it was. I felt liek you had to know in advance (oh god dont reply on someone shouting in the hall to announce any show or event)

I loved hearing stories and details that are more gossip than much else. I loved peoples back stories. Only being involved in "convention world" for few years you feel like you've a lot to catch up on, so thats why I think The Old Skool is needed!

I do have some things that I didnt like about it... some questions were super interesting, and obviously asked because of the reaction they would get. it was great! (jason/ija/etc.) and I liked crowd questions, circomedia clearly was a hot topic and would have been nice to hear either of the internationals thoughts on it.
Some questions were major i think they got asked whats the worst show youve ever seen..then...whats the it was super boring. its liek someone telling you about their dream they just had. you're super into it. but no one else really is. (ok dont get me wrong there was the odd moment, but general those questions had a terrible word count verses funny ratio)

It was super annoying the bell wasnt used effectively. I think the host gotta learn to read a crowd better. every time you did press the bell people clapped..i think that means you wait to long and dont press it enough, because clearly people are so relieved when you do press it you get applause.
I'd also like to suggest the bell is put into the audience, or entrusted to a table of people. they can feel the crowd better maybe? Or they have one and you have one?? It just ruined it how someone can go on and on and on....
I do think Rhonda was almost cut out of a lot of questions, twice she began to speak, and once the other guest greg was about to tell a story and they were interrupted. I dont see how a host should let that happen. Theres a skill to allowing a conversation to flow naturally between people and controlling it enough to allow the laid-back or quieter guests moments to shine through.

thanks for reading the long answer when the short one would have sufficed

Orinoco - - Parent

Thank you Rosie, long answers are always welcome here!

It has always been intended to be a panel show of sorts as can be seen from Emily's announcement of the first Old Skool in 2012.

For me part of the Old Skool's appeal has been that it is an intimate affair. If the audience was much bigger I think it would lose some of that charm.

Interesting that you didn't feel it was advertised beforehand. It was also in the info booklet & on the workshop board :P This probably highlights two different ends of the spectrum of how people plan their time at a BJC. I generally look at all the events going on & then go juggling if there is nothing I fancy going to. Whereas I think your default position is to hang out in the main hall & it takes something special to pull you away from it, does that sound correct? What would be the best way to let you know about events happening at the BJC?

Also for your info Cedric Lackpot here is the Old Skool host guy!

^Tom_ - - Parent

I will also add that there was a sandwich board placed just outside the entrance to the main hall throughout the evening to advertise it.

As it happened, the venue for the old skool this year was not great, and I think most people struggled to hear what was going on. Particularly whenever oblivious people noisily wondered past, or whenever the mop-on-wheels frequently rattled past.

My favourite* Old Skool was in Pickering, where I think Steven and Andre had some particularly interesting stories which fed well of each other (Disney & alligators spring to mind, as does the story of a fire juggler somewhere).

*The number that I've actually managed to watch is not a particularly large number.

Little Paul - - Parent

The Pickering one benefited from being in an appropriately sized room without being on the way to/from anywhere or in a space being used for anything else.

The cafe area was the least worst place we could have held it this year, I'd have favoured one of the dance studios, but we were told they weren't available for some reason?

I do agree it could be advertised better, some of the descriptions I heard in advance of the show this year made it sound more like a juggling show than a panel show.

^Tom_ - - Parent

Oh, I agree that it was one of the least worst places.
Some venues are just more suited to talky events than others.

Was it originally called "Grumpy old jugglers", or was "Old Skool" the name from the start?

Cedric Lackpot - - Parent

A little TOS history :-

The original idea was conceived by Ben Cornish and Dave Jellybean, and IIRC was going to be a more or less straight lift of BBC2's Grumpy Old Men called, predictably, Grumpy Old Jugglers. For reasons I wasn't told or do not remember, Ben and Dave chose not to develop the idea for BJC Southend 2012, despite them both attending.

Subsequently, sometime in late '11 or early '12 Emily Winch approached me to enquire whether I might be interested in taking the thing on. I listened to the proposal as it then stood, but was a bit concerned about making anything too derivative of an existing format, so went away and ruminated about it for a bit, after which I came to realise that getting jugglers with long experience to share their stories was a great idea, but simply copying another format was probably too restrictive. Consequently I came up with a loose panel format, and a name that did not suggest anything much in particular, other than punning lightly on Old Skool/Old's Kool, with the hope that we could just get interesting people squiffy and letting them babble. It seemed to work.

So, in brief, the conception was indeed Grumpy Old Jugglers and the germ of the idea was not mine, but once it fell into my lap I tried to knock it into something workable.

The Void - - Parent

Which reminds me.... is still available!

Mike Moore - - Parent

If Old Skool ever recorded and posted? I'm interested to see what it's all about.

Mike Moore - - Parent


(minor jetlag)

The Void - - Parent

So far, no. I image that if panelists knew they were being recorded, we would get far fewer stories full of potentially slanderously entertaining dullskuggery.

Little Paul - - Parent

After the Steve mills one, I wished I had recorded the pre-show prep chats as although the show was interesting, the pre-show prep was more interesting.

I forgot all about my plan to (audio) record the pre-work this year until it was too late - but I'd love to do that and put it out as a carefully edited (to avoid too much scandal) audio release.

Perhaps next year...

It's Him - - Parent

pre-show prep chats?

Unless you were talking about us introducing ourselves at the start of the panel then this didn't happen for me. It may be because I have known Jay a long while and he probably thinks he knows quite a bit about me. However as I totally failed to mention that I was a performing juggler in my self-introduction or explain why I am called It's Him when he mentioned it in introducing me, it was a fairly poor example of talking about myself.


Why are you called It's Him! ? Partly because of the anagram. Partly because I was in a double act called Him and Me.

Cedric Lackpot - - Parent

Nigel, for various boring reasons I elected to be pretty slack about The Old Skool prep this year, so did very little of the homework I have previously done. Usually I have spent half a day doing informal individual interviews/chats with the panellists as a way of a) gleaning useful information and background; and b) giving them the opportunity to ramble on and talk freely, by way of acclimatisation. It has usually been a wonderful experience.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Ah, that makes perfect sense. I'll have to rely on Greg's memory, then!

Little Paul - - Parent

Thanks for a long answer, I don't think a shorter one would have done :)

7b_wizard -

Teaching; creating a ``school´´ (teaching concept); giving workshops; .. .

Here's wikipedia's article on instructional theory listing "methods, models and strategies" in an overview that can be used as a checklist or as entry point for forming and developing your teaching skills.

See also [just a detail from the above]: ( .. stimulates thought processes of which the subject may be unaware. [ // wow cool. // ] )
.. and - for a contrasting approach: (critical, self-directed DIY)

Didn't find any "evolution of skills"-article neither on wikipedia nor the web, however,
.. anyway, interesting stuff, i think, .. A'll leave it here as mosaique stones.   [ #teaching #furtherStudies #schools #theory #anticipatedNoRepliesThread :o]) ]

The Void -

JTV is 10 today! (In human years, that's about 78.)
Year-long competition!:
It's our 10th birthday! #JTVis10 Comp! #juggling #juggle #jugglers #juggle
— (@jugglingtv) April 9, 2017

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Congratulations! Thanks for supporting juggling videos for all these years :D

7b_wizard - - Parent

My favourite juggling vid platform from jugglers for jugglers.

Kelhoon - - Parent

Congrats !

*thumbs up*

Orinoco - - Parent

Happy birthday JTV!

A big thank you to Howie, Void, David & Max for providing a wonderful service & everyone who feeds the beast videos.

The Void - - Parent

Thanks for the positivities, dudes.
Oh look, Max has gone on a Featurefest today...

PS: LP, hope you got the email.

Little Paul - - Parent

I did get the mail (both of them!) I just haven't had any time to do anything about it...

The Void - - Parent

Ah, good.

Orinoco -

Right, I'm all packed for #bjc2017. I look forward to seeing some of you tomorrow.

Orinoco - - Parent

That was close, almost forgot my notebook!

Little Paul - - Parent

We're on our way already (staying overnight just outside Birmingham) and we're already compiling a list of stuff we forgot to pack...

Little Paul - - Parent

I'm currently sat on the grass, in the sunshine on car park duty... no sign of any cars yet as it's a bit early #bjcvolunteering

Maria - - Parent

I have packed most of the things I was planning to bring, now I'm considering switching to my largest suitcase to have room for a set of new clubs on my way home (not planning to throw away the old ones). :) There might be enough room anyway if I stop adding stuff now but I am not sure.

The Void - - Parent

For me, Anni, Emma & Guillaume were the standout acts in the gala show. I liked Rosie's compèring, especially ducks/kids.

It's Him - - Parent

This post of Voids appears to be in the wrong place.

I also liked the duck/kid routine and also Mark Watsons play with it later.


The Void - - Parent

Your apostrophe key is broken. The post is where I put it: In the only #bjc2017 thread that existed at the time.

Little Paul -

Juggling related domain name looking for a new owner.

A few years back, I registered as somewhere that could be used to promote use of the ##juggling IRC channel on freenode. We've never really done much with it, and the IRC channel is rather under used. The domain name is due for renewal, and I don't really have any interest in keeping it.

I'm happy to open it up for transfer to another registrar, if someone wants to take over ownership of the domain name. This offer is for the name only, and not the hosting or website that goes with it (I'll be taking them down after the transfer)

If anyone wants it, email me via lp [at] lpbk [dot] net and I'll open it up for transfer and send you the Auth Code.

I'm not going to charge anything for it, but your domain registrar may charge for the transfer and re-registration.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

That reminds me,
Since a few months basically all my chatgroups have moved to Discord, and it has been an amazing experience. I've never used the juggling IRC, but if anyone wants to chat, I welcome you all at a discord server I created 2 seconds ago:

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