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Mike Moore -

9 ball preparation

I'm looking to direct my juggling into numbers for the next while, specifically working on 7b in a way that will make a somewhat sustained 9b more feasible in the future. I've been enjoying 5 and 7 ups (no 360s) and praciticing 7b at what I expect 9b height will be. Finding these really fun.

My siteswap abilities are a fair bit below my base-pattern abilities, so I'm working through some remedial siteswaps with 5 (771, 75751, and the very non-remedial 933).

What are some other things to work on? Unless it is absolutely necessary, I'd like to avoid 8b and 6b (except in cascade patterns).

Austin - - Parent

Personally I think just try and work on lots of tricks back to pattern with 7, as they are both more fun and more productive than slaving away at 9. Try the 5 and 7 ups with 360s, and try getting a few rounds of 966, 867 and b6666 back to pattern. I also like working on (8x,6)*. On top of that, although I can get 100 catches of 7 most attempts I think it needs to be a lot more solid to be working on 9. Why not try 8? It's a lot easier than 9 and helps with the speed and height.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Thanks for the response. I've worked a little on 966 and (8x,6)* and will continue doing so. I don't like 360s (aesthetically, conceptually, and physically - they're normally asymmetric and hurt my knees when I practice them too much)

Do you think that b6666 and 867 are really useful for 9? Perhaps as a general "it'll make you spend more time on 7b siteswaps", but they seem to be pretty unrelated to a 9b cascade. Which leads me to...

I don't do base patterns of even numbers. I don't like the feel of the scooping motion, and collision avoidance in fountain patterns is a skill of mine that lags behind (and I am fine with it doing so). I've certainly /tried/ 6 and 8b, and worked on 6 enough at least to know that I don't like it.

Current 7b status for me is breaking 100 catches about once/practice.

Austin - - Parent

Well b6666 certainly will be as it will help your ability to have enough control over 7 to get out high throws. If you can do it, 978 would be worth working on if you dont want to do fountains. Other than that I just think getting 7 both rock solid and correctable is the best way forward, and I do that by trying to get increasingly hard tricks back to pattern, preferably with a nice run afterwards to show control. What balls are you using for it?

Mike Moore - - Parent

The problem with things like b6666 is that I expect the bottleneck in skill will be the several consecutive 6s no colliding. I'd be spending a lot of time/effort dealing with an aspect of the pattern that I don't expect would help me with my goal.

I'm using Drop Props (100 g) for 7, and will probably do that for 9. If I'm feeling lame, I might use my underfilled 85 g Drop Props.

Austin - - Parent

Fair enough, maybe just practice doing 7, throwing 1 very high and collecting 6, then going back to 7 straight away. What I'm wondering is whether your goal is just to get some runs of 9, or whether you want a general improvment in numbers skill? Because I only really work on base patterns so they're solid enough to get some tricks in them, because I get bored just running patterns.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Right now, my goal is to build toward runs of 9. I tend to switch focii and dig pretty deep for longish periods of time (e.g. from Feb-July, I only juggled 3b) and 9 is my medium-term goal at the moment.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Ooops, I forgot to say thanks for the idea of doing a collect to a restart. Thanks!

peterbone - - Parent

I personally don't think that any 7 ball siteswaps would be much help for 9 balls. I mean look at Gatto's 9 balls. 9 balls is all about throwing with a very consistent height and accuracy, which siteswaps won't help you with. You're already working on 7 balls high, which is one of the best exercises for 9. Get is as accurate as you can. I'd also recommend working on 7 low to get used to the speed. I'd also suggest to do these exercises with a range of different balls from small to large and light to somewhat heavy. Large balls with 7 will give you the pattern shape and arm position needed for 9. Other than that, just go for 9 with many short sessions.

Maybe these articles will help as well. The first I wrote mainly for flashing high numbers but a lot of the points may be helpful for running 9 as well.

Mike Moore - - Parent

When high 7 is working with good form, it gives me such a great feeling! 7 low is a bit frustrating right now, but frustrating in similar ways to 9b attempts, so seems like awfully good practice.

Very interesting advice about doing 7 with different types of balls. I'll be sure to do that, especially during club meetings when there are tons of different balls to go around.

Those articles are so nostalgic! Worth re-reading after such a long time, thanks.

Stephen Meschke - - Parent

What do you consider sustained?

I took a look at the records database to see how good 9 ball jugglers are at 7 ball juggling. Link to graph showing relative difficulty of 9b and 7b.

Typically 7 ball jugglers are better 9 ball jugglers. Most jugglers who can sustain 9 balls longer than 20 catches can run 7 for more than two hundred.

Mike Moore - - Parent

I probably wouldn't practice 9b unless I thought I could break 20 catches of it at some point. So yes, I'm looking for >20 catch runs.

That's a cool comparison in your graph. I have no doubt that I'll run 7b for 200 catches before getting 20 catches (or maybe even a qualify) of 9b.

peterbone - - Parent

Nice plot. I can spot myself. The problem is though that a lot of 9 ball jugglers may not be interested in long runs of 7. It would be a bit like Usain Bolt running a marathon. Also some endurance jugglers may not be able to get decent runs of 9. That's why the data doesn't follow the linear regression very well at the higher catch counts.

Mike Moore - - Parent

I understand the idea of the comparison between Usain Bolt's best races (100 m, 200 m, maybe 400 m) and marathons against 9b and 7b seems hugely exaggerated. I expect it would be more like comparing 9b versus 3b (or 4b). Distance running and sprints are hugely different. It's not the case that sprinters are just "uninterested" in running distance: elite sprinters couldn't run distance at an elite level, nor could elite distance runners sprint at an elite level.

peterbone - - Parent

Yeah, I said a bit different. I think it would be more like comparing 9 balls to 5 balls. I know that it's not just a case of being uninterested in the other discipline. It's also about what people have trained for. 7 and 9 are still different enough that people could have specialised in one and not be anywhere near as good at the other.

Mike Moore -

Pattern modifier: inverted

I searched through the pattern modifiers and found "is" for inverted shower, but no standalone "inverted" modifier. Does it exist/how would I make one?

Orinoco - - Parent

It does not exist/you write some code for the records section :P

I've never gotten around to adding this to the records section properly for two reasons. Firstly, inverted (& inverse) are usually stated before the pattern unlike all the other modifiers, which means I have to write some code & can't just update the modifier definitions & I'm lazy!

Mstly though it is because I'm not sure my understanding of the terminology is the same as everyone else's. My basic understanding is:

Inverted = upside down
Inverse = time reversed

...but I have heard jugglers use these two terms interchangeably, which strikes me as wrong. But inverted also means inside out & inverse also means opposite so not entirely out of the question.

Going by my definitions, every pattern has an inverse, but not every pattern can be legitimately inverted(?). I try to configure the modifiers so that you can't record impossible patterns. I haven't really figured out in my mind how to differentiate what is & isn't possible.

In the meantime though try using invt+ or invs+ before the pattern code in your input eg. # 3b invt+sprungcas I trust you to use it responsibly!

Mike Moore - - Parent

I agree with your definitions (though I seldom hear inverse), and I would not use the terms interchangeably. With "inverted", I'm of the camp that it can ONLY be applied to 2xs (I could maybe be convinced to include 1s...maybe), and it means to "be thrown such that its path goes over (both of?) the other balls".

These days it's also applied to Julius's fantastic sprung cascade pattern where he throws it over 2 of the 3 other balls. Everyone's accepted this because throwing the 2x over all three of the other balls seems infeasible.

Weeee, thanks for the add! I wonder if Julius will add his record to it!

Orinoco - - Parent

Interesting observation about inverted patterns must contain a 2x throw which goes over everything. I'd not thought about it that way before. All the inverted patterns I've seen are box & shower variants where the inverted pattern looks like the base pattern reflected along the horizontal axis, so I have been taking inverted literally.

With hindsight 'underlined' & 'overlined' would have been a better descriptor for these patterns.

Julius - - Parent

Ok I juggled a little bit today and attempted a longer run. Also I decided to jump on the instagram bandwagon but I think it's too hard to use if you don't have a smartphone like me, so maybe I will immediately stop using instagram.
I count 83 flip flops so thats 166 catches correct? I will now try to set my record in the record database.
Quinn Lewis asked me a few months ago to make him a video like this and I sent him a very bad quality video, this video has better quality so I hope he sees it! (maybe someone can send it to him)

Mike Moore - - Parent

I've passed it on to Quinn. Ahh, such a good pattern.

I'm with you when it comes to instagram. It's HORRIBLE on anything but a smartphone (which is why I really have to force myself to watch anything on it). It's too bad that all the amazing juggling on there isn't somewhere with a better desktop interface.

Julius - - Parent


Yea it's ridiculous, there isnt even a straightforward way to upload something

Heather Marriott -

3rd Annual Yavapai Juggling Festival coming up in Prescott Arizona.

Yavapai College 1100 E. Sheldon St Prescott AZ 86301

Sept 8th-10th 2017 Free open juggling in an indoor space. Workshops and shows.

For details see our Facebook page:


JonPeat -

The Sheffield Circus Convention 2017 – Review (UK)

My review of the Sheffield Circus Convention is now available for your perusal:

Thank you once again to the organising team for putting on the event. :-)

Cheers, Jon


Orinoco - - Parent

I think fire ukulele would be good. No particular reason, I just always wish they were on fire.

It's Him - - Parent

Fire drums!

Same reasoning. Thankfully there isn't the same amount of drumming happening at BJCs at the start of the millennium it was almost constant.


Cedric Lackpot - - Parent

> Thankfully there isn't the same amount of drumming happening at BJCs at the start of the millennium it was almost constant.

Still there, just drowned out by middle-aged whining ;-)

Orinoco -

New edition of Spectacle now available.

bad1dobby - - Parent

Any thoughts on the last para in the book review, Orin?

Orinoco - - Parent

I thought that was completely unnecessary to be honest. Languages evolve constantly. That statement came across as very King Canute-esque.

Generally when I write I will use neutral pronouns (them, they etc.) unless I know the gender of the subject. Personally I've never really thought of (red & blue) clowns as even having a gender. They certainly don't procreate, I think they just burst into existence with a shower of confetti.

I read a lot of articles from places like Long Reads, The Feature, Longform & the use of female pronouns is happening all over the place. Using the masculine pronoun to refer to an arbitrary person is still dominant (perhaps 3:1 ish?) but at a much lower ratio than I recall from 10, even 5 years ago. I'm guessing the vast majority of Mr Albrecht's reading is in the field of circus so has perhaps not come across the change that has been happening in other fields.

bad1dobby - - Parent

'Canute-esque' is good, although I hardly think the tide has turned. More like he dipped his toe into a tiny eddy and felt the need to reprimand it for not behaving like all the other water.

lukeburrage -


lukeburrage - - Parent


lukeburrage - - Parent


Scott Seltzer - - Parent

See you tomorrow!

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Was awesome!

Ruben Schlensok -

Nice forum for german diabolo-players and jugglers:

Orinoco -

Latest act from the Raw Art stable:

Performers are Anatoliy Ignatov & Valeriy Ganzyuk. Anyone know if Anatoliy is a relation of the Sergei's?

The Void -

Some nice footwork.

lukeburrage - - Parent

That's one of the most exhausting-looking juggling sequence I've ever seen.

Scott Seltzer -

OMG, are you missing the IJA 70th Annual Festival that started this week? Well, you can read all about it on eJuggle with updates daily:

Mike Moore - - Parent

Finally read through these and enjoyed them (especially the silly snippits) very much. "Only at a juggling festival can you get hit in the head with a flying object someone else has thrown, apologize for getting in the way and actually mean it."

Little Paul - - Parent

Whoever wrote that is clearly not a Brit

Orinoco - - Parent

I remember at the EJC in Carvin 2004 my friend Dave & I attended a takeout workshop. One of the moves involved clawing a club out of the pattern from above, swinging it behind you at arms length in a full circle to place back in the pattern from above. I on't know where he came from but at precisely the wrong moment a chap appeared from nowhere & took one of Dave's wild swings to the face. This was followed by a competition to see who could apologise the most.

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